2Honest Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Hmmmm. Is this what she actually said? "New-agers"--do people even use this term any more? Is P actually out of touch with the world? With culture? And "rock stars"? This sounds a little delusional and unrealistic. Does she want to reach these groups because she sees them as suffering for lack of Christ, or to lend legitimacy to her own belief system? I just find this statement (new-agers and rock stars) so terribly odd. And you're right. Why is she reaching for the 'stars' (literally--new agers and rockers) when she can't even keep a couple of people with the exact same thinking in the faith? Weird! And sad! Haha, yeah. That's actually the way she refers to them! It's weird b/c she actually identifies w/both of those groups a lot. She often uses "new age" concepts and secular lyrics in her messages. She loves secular music and makes no apologies for it. She claims those people "tap into the spirit" without realizing it. She says they just need someone to explain to them that what they're tapping into is really Christ. I think the truth is she wants to BE them. She envies the freedom they have to express themselves without limits and their ability to explore the world and the "spirit" without any boundaries. And yet she says that being a christian is the only real way to be "open". That'll make your head spin! She really is quite the character. It is no wonder she can't really find a home in the church or in the world. Honestly I just feel sorry for her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted April 19, 2012 Moderator Share Posted April 19, 2012 I can’t pretend not to do this with a heavy heart, but nevertheless I do it with the integrity that truly honors Kingdom friendship. I am sooooooo sorry. What has happened with this friendship is beyond sad. You guys all know that I KNOW, that I have this coming with my dear friend, 'the pastors wife'......We have been friends for a long, long time. I have done her hair for 30 some-odd years. Since I came out to her, our friendship is sooooo strained. I am expecting anytime to recieve a letter from her telling me that she has found a closer hairdresser. She lives a few miles from me.... and I really do love her very much, but I know I am going to lose her..... This bullshit above would be the Pentacostal church that I attended all those years......the above means that she cannot be 'unequally yoked' with non-christians!! That didn't just stand for marriage in my chruch!! That meant friends also. You cannot be friends with an unbeliever lest you stray from the fold!! I am afraid...we are the devils children....... I really am so sorry. Hug for both of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owen652 Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 I can’t pretend not to do this with a heavy heart, but nevertheless I do it with the integrity that truly honors Kingdom friendship. I am sooooooo sorry. What has happened with this friendship is beyond sad. You guys all know that I KNOW that I have this coming with my dear friend, 'the pastors wife'......We have been friends for a long, long time. I have done her hair for 30 some-odd years. Since I came out to her, our friendship is sooooo strained. I am expecting anytime to recieve a letter from her telling me that she has found a closer hairdresser. She lives a few miles from me.... and I really do love her very much, but I know I am going to lose her..... This bullshit above would be the Pentacostal church that I attended all those years......the above means that she cannot be 'unequally yoked' with non-christians!! That didn't just stand for marriage in my chruch!! That meant friends also. You cannot be friends with an unbeliever lest you stray from the fold!! I am afraid...we are the devils children....... I really am so sorry. Hug for both of you. this. Paul instructed his disciples not to associate with Christians who had 'fallen away' lest you be dragged down with them. so really, she's just being a good, bible-believing christian when she smears good friends into the dirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Honest Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 I just want to say thank you all SO much for the kind words and support. It means so much to us. I was telling J while we sat outside after dinner that I don't know what we would have done without this place the past few months. You've really been a huge help to us! One day we will write a book and you guys will be included in our "thank you" page! Much love to all of you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted April 20, 2012 Moderator Share Posted April 20, 2012 Sorry to be so late to the party! I have a good friend who pastors a church. I taught the youth under his leadership for some time. Since telling him a few years ago that I no longer believed he has never tried to convince me that I was wrong or tried to bring me back into to the fold. It's almost as if deep down he knows that I'm right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owen652 Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 can't wait for that book, can I pre-order? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Honest Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Sorry to be so late to the party! I have a good friend who pastors a church. I taught the youth under his leadership for some time. Since telling him a few years ago that I no longer believed he has never tried to convince me that I was wrong or tried to bring me back into to the fold. It's almost as if deep down he knows that I'm right. Hey, TF! No worries, this is an never-ending party! That's interesting about your friend. Do you still spend time together? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted April 20, 2012 Moderator Share Posted April 20, 2012 He lives in another city, so we don't get together often, but he's a facebook friend. I love his family--good people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 This bullshit above would be the Pentacostal church that I attended all those years......the above means that she cannot be 'unequally yoked' with non-christians!! That didn't just stand for marriage in my chruch!! That meant friends also. You cannot be friends with an unbeliever lest you stray from the fold!! I am afraid...we are the devils children....... I really am so sorry. Hug for both of you. this. Paul instructed his disciples not to associate with Christians who had 'fallen away' lest you be dragged down with them. so really, she's just being a good, bible-believing christian when she smears good friends into the dirt. This is why I always say it's a cult. Non-believers can pop the believers bubble, and the religious leaders know that. Here is a good link. http://www.examiner.com/article/the-intolerant-dogma-of-cults @2Honest, might I suggest writing a movie script instead of a book??? I'm 100% in support of reading but this story needs the big screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openpalm45 Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Wow. Just wow. I could read that over and over again. Jbluep, your responses were perfect. Thank you so much for sharing. I am so sorry about the friendship you are losing. I know how hurtful that is. It is clear that she doesnt want anything that strongly confronts her faith, because I think if anything does, her faith will collapse. And I hope it does. Its a scary thing to lose your faith, but how can you live your life for a lie? Well, I dont want to, but maybe some people need the lie. Again, thank you for sharing. I would love to have more people like you and 2Honest in my life. You really seem like wonderful people. I wish the best for the two of you and your family. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owen652 Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 This bullshit above would be the Pentacostal church that I attended all those years......the above means that she cannot be 'unequally yoked' with non-christians!! That didn't just stand for marriage in my chruch!! That meant friends also. You cannot be friends with an unbeliever lest you stray from the fold!! I am afraid...we are the devils children....... I really am so sorry. Hug for both of you. this. Paul instructed his disciples not to associate with Christians who had 'fallen away' lest you be dragged down with them. so really, she's just being a good, bible-believing christian when she smears good friends into the dirt. This is why I always say it's a cult. Non-believers can pop the believers bubble, and the religious leaders know that. Here is a good link. http://www.examiner....-dogma-of-cults @2Honest, might I suggest writing a movie script instead of a book??? I'm 100% in support of reading but this story needs the big screen. this is a really interesting point. I can't think of a single movie that tackles the theme of losing faith and leaving christianity specifically; there are some like the recent Martha Marcy May Marlene, but that's about a cult (yeah, I know..). Probably unfilmable though; internalized emotional conflict and cognitive dissonance doesn't exactly make for good viewing. Although you could put a car chase in there somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Hey, I still use the term "New Age," if even mockingly. I don't ever mean it as a compliment, but I'm not sure anybody does anymore. I also find it weird that this pastor specifically targets "New Agers" and "rock stars." That's a level of egotism that is decidedly at odds with her humility act. Jesus certainly didn't seek those people; he sought the downtrodden, the despised, the "fallen." His holy word advises that the truest expression of religion is helping the widowed and the poor, groups who are about the least likely to ever be considered "New Agers" or "rock stars." I'm sure she has some lovely rationalization for the disconnect between what the Bible says and how she expresses its mandates. You guys are seriously saints for being this gracious toward her and her (equally odious and flaky, though for different reasons) husband. <3 you both. I'm so glad this world has folks like you in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Honest Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 This bullshit above would be the Pentacostal church that I attended all those years......the above means that she cannot be 'unequally yoked' with non-christians!! That didn't just stand for marriage in my chruch!! That meant friends also. You cannot be friends with an unbeliever lest you stray from the fold!! I am afraid...we are the devils children....... I really am so sorry. Hug for both of you. this. Paul instructed his disciples not to associate with Christians who had 'fallen away' lest you be dragged down with them. so really, she's just being a good, bible-believing christian when she smears good friends into the dirt. This is why I always say it's a cult. Non-believers can pop the believers bubble, and the religious leaders know that. Here is a good link. http://www.examiner....-dogma-of-cults @2Honest, might I suggest writing a movie script instead of a book??? I'm 100% in support of reading but this story needs the big screen. this is a really interesting point. I can't think of a single movie that tackles the theme of losing faith and leaving christianity specifically; there are some like the recent Martha Marcy May Marlene, but that's about a cult (yeah, I know..). Probably unfilmable though; internalized emotional conflict and cognitive dissonance doesn't exactly make for good viewing. Although you could put a car chase in there somewhere. London - I've actually had that thought myself. There really aren't any movies out there portraying the struggle of the ex-christian. It would be great to have something to counteract all the lame Christian movies that seem to be popping up everywhere. But I think owen might be right - I'm not sure how you could convey the inner struggle onscreen. Yeah, maybe if we added some car chases, explosions and sex scenes.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblueep Posted April 20, 2012 Author Share Posted April 20, 2012 I would love to have more people like you and 2Honest in my life. You really seem like wonderful people. I wish the best for the two of you and your family. Thanks OP. 2Honest and I automatically adopt anyone under 25, so welcome to the family 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblueep Posted April 20, 2012 Author Share Posted April 20, 2012 I invited her to coffee this morning. Should be interesting if she accepts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Honest Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 I posted P's response to my coming out letter, if anyone's interested: http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/51207-my-coming-out-letter-to-my-friendformer-pastor/page__pid__752850#entry752850 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Honest Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 I would love to have more people like you and 2Honest in my life. You really seem like wonderful people. I wish the best for the two of you and your family. Thanks OP. 2Honest and I automatically adopt anyone under 25, so welcome to the family Yep! The more the merrier! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Honest Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 I replied to P's reponse. It is posted here: http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/51207-my-coming-out-letter-to-my-friendformer-pastor/page__pid__752872__st__20#entry752872 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 London - I've actually had that thought myself. There really aren't any movies out there portraying the struggle of the ex-christian. It would be great to have something to counteract all the lame Christian movies that seem to be popping up everywhere. But I think owen might be right - I'm not sure how you could convey the inner struggle onscreen. Yeah, maybe if we added some car chases, explosions and sex scenes.... It's not a new or original concept on my part but you could either do a "struggle conversation" in your head that the viewer hears or you could do a flashback like scene. The "struggle conversation" would esentally be you in a situation talking to yourself. "Is THIS the sign god? Is THIS what you are trying to tell me? It can't be god telling me something. It's not rational. Why am I so tormented by this? Why can't I hear god anymore? Maybe they are right, there is no god." A flashback scene could be any fantasy conversation. You could sit at a table with god and discuss this with him and he could give lame answers back. Or he could sit there silent. Or you could have over the top scenes where you are fighting satan and trying to keep your faith but at the end of most scenes satan dissolves (and all the weapons being used) into dust. Another option would be to do a full on narration movie. Not like Desperate Housewives but like a real narration. Almost documentary-like. I wish I could remember an example of any of these styles but I am just blank. I see this a lot in indie films, documenatries and foriegn films. The more obscure the better. LOL on the car chases, explosions and sex scenes. How about a xian robs a 7-11 and ends up in a car chase. Abortion clinic bombings, and a pastor with a sexual addiction. These could be news stories on TV in the movie, they don't have to be part of your personal life, but maybe part of your questioning. Any movie that contradicts Kirk Cameron would be a good thing in the universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 That would get under my skin, too. People calling themselves "Dr" that haven't actually done the work to earn them are lowlifes. For some reason, fundamentalists love to give themselves these titles, I guess to try to create some sort of legitimacy and authority for what they say. That is almost as bad as "having a vision" that promotes you to Apostle. But really how do pastors, priests, bishops, cardinals an popes fit in on the spectrum of fake titles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owen652 Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 any movie that focuses on these issues would definitely have to be wrapped around a specific story which is more grounded in human interest and has potential to be explored more deeply, such as a pastor with sex addiction, like London suggested. That could work, or perhaps the father of a young woman who is being victimized for her sexual preferences, or the fallout from a suicide within the church, or something like that. However.. good luck selling it in America. Move to Europe first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 P, I came to see you last night specifically to hug and kiss you so that you would see that I am the same friend that I have always been. I have to admit that the last thing I expected this morning was a "Dear John" email from you telling me that we can no longer be real friends. Last week, I simply had some questions based on three years of listening to you. I wasn't accusing you of being in denial. I was first asking if you had actually seen anything manifest other than emotions. I wasn't making judgements about YOUR experience. I was asking if YOUR experience was different than MY experience. When the answer was basically "no", I was then asking how you reconciled that to maintain your belief. When your answer was basically that you choose to believe, I then took a chance and revealed to you why I could not believe any longer. I would submit that it is you that has made the judgements. I am not angry, as I have always believed the best about you and wrapped that with acceptance and love. I am baffled that you think that true friendship and honor is walking away from our friendship because "friendship and the Kingdom of God are...one and the same". Are you really saying that you can't be friends with an unbeliever? That completely contradicts your books, sermons, and countless discussions. I optimistically thought that our friendship would survive my apostasy. I thought this could be a great opportunity for you to "engage the culture" because you would be engaging with someone that loves and respects you. As your true friend, I am trepidatious yet compelled to end with something that will probably be very tough for you to hear. My sole reason for saying this is because I love you, not because I am hurt or looking to hurt you: Over the years, I have consistently observed that it is very difficult for you to be close with anyone that disagrees with you. I think that's because you take disagreement as personal rejection. As your friend, I submit that you are going to have to find a way to get past that if you really want to accomplish your life mission. I will walk away as you requested, but with my head turned back and my hand forever open. Much Love, Jason I'm late coming to this thread, but I must say that this was a very well crafted and thoughtful response. I wish you the best as you deal with "P." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openpalm45 Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 I would love to have more people like you and 2Honest in my life. You really seem like wonderful people. I wish the best for the two of you and your family. Thanks OP. 2Honest and I automatically adopt anyone under 25, so welcome to the family Yep! The more the merrier! Awesome! Thats sounds great. You guys seem like great parents. Your teenagers are very lucky to have you! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblueep Posted April 22, 2012 Author Share Posted April 22, 2012 I just came out to one of my best friends. It turned out to be no big deal. He said he knew me and that it didn't change a thing for our relationship. He also said that he might wind up there someday too. It was by far the most mature response I have received, especially when compared to the responses from my former pastor. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positivist Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 He said he knew me and that it didn't change a thing for our relationship. He also said that he might wind up there someday too. These are the kinds of friends we need to keep! I love the honesty. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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