I Am So Stupid: I Prayed Today And Guess What? Nothing Happened!

[Positivist]

OK, I admit it: I prayed yesterday.

 

A 28-year old acquaintance of mine is dying of cancer. He and his wife are hardcore fundies. God has not answered their prayers for healing (unless “no” and “wait” count as answers ) and they are okay with that. I guess. Actually, I think they’re in denial.

 

They were looking after a dog that had been found cowering under a bridge in a large American city. It had been abused and was homeless, but my acquaintances took it in temporarily, through a rescue organization. My acquaintance, against all good advice, let the dog off leash in the river valley for some off leash exercise. The dog ran off and it has been living in the river valley with no food or shelter for almost two weeks now. There are numerous wildlife perils also in this park. The dog has been sighted at this park but it remains at large. My acquaintances have now gone on vacation, leaving the dog to its fate. They have asked me to keep looking if I can.

 

I have looked for the dog several times. Anyhow, I went to the park yesterday evening, hoping dusk would bring the dog out.

 

And I prayed for the first time in almost two years, “God, please bring this dog to me. It does not deserve to die at the teeth of predators or starve to death or die of exposure. Bring this dog to one of the parking areas so I can help my friends and help this dog. Have mercy!”

 

I felt like an idiot. I certainly am a s-l-o-w l-e-a-r-n-e-r. But I had to try.

 

You may be shocked to learn that the dog did not appear. I waited for it, called it, walked around looking, and the dog did not appear anywhere within my range of vision. Shocking, I know.

 

So, insert the Prayer Answering Formula^TM here, with the standard answer Yes, No or Wait. We can cross "Yes" off the possible answers as clearly the dog did not appear. OK, so now we're left with "No"--for which William Lunatic Craig would tell us there is a beautiful God-glorifying reason this dog ought to starve to death or die by savage beast. It's kind of hard to see that kind of thinking from Mr. Slaughtering Egomaniacal Self-Centered Compassionate God. But then what do I know? So the answer must be "Wait", which if course, will also bring just the right timing to scrape the dog's carcass off the road have a pack of coyotes tear it limb from limb bring glory to God. In the words of Brother Jeff, GLORY! We have a winner!

 

So I prayed again (see? I told you I was a slow learner ), saying “You know God, this is why so many don’t believe in you. I’m not asking you to heal my friend’s cancer or something big like that. I’m just asking you to bring a dog to my sight line. I'll do the rest!! I just don’t see why it’s so damn difficult to answer the little teeny weeny prayers like this. This is exactly why people don't believe in you. So you can’t act all shocked when believers are dropping like flies or the lake of fire is full to overflowing. It’s shit like this that makes us believe you aren’t there. You gotta admit, the optics kinda suck, God."

 

Gawd, I am so stupid.

[Margee]

you're not one bit stupid for wanting to desperetly help an animal. You are the warm hearted person out there calling a dog at dusk so he doesn't have to be afraid in the woods one more night.God doesn't give a shit - you do.

 

Desperation and prayer to help someone can naturally turn into a last resort. I've done it.....I may do it till the day I die. It's in my 'cells'. But it never works for me either. And all we are doing is asking this god to help us a little.......and no response from him/her/it..........Breaks my heart..you think it would break god's heart?

 

You're a good person hon. I hope your friends cancer goes into remission..... hug for you tonight!

[Zephie]

I don't think you're stupid. Not at all. Tis a learned response when we want something so desperately.

[Positivist]

But it never works for me either. And all we are doing is asking this god to help us a little.......and no response from him/her/it..........Breaks my heart..you think it would break god's heart?

That's exactly it. This is something so simple. For a god who supposedly orchestrated Noah's gathering of a bazillion species of animals onto a rickety little boat, you'd think one poor dog would be a cinch.

 

Proverbs 3:27 is one of my favorite sayings: Do not withhold good when it is within your power to act. (Something like that, depending on the translation.) I continue to live by this rule, even more so as an atheist. Why doesn't God live by his own damn rules?

[Positivist]

I don't think you're stupid. Not at all. Tis a learned response when we want something so desperately.

I actually thought God might have mercy and compassion.

 

As Christians we believed that God is more compassionate than us, and that the only compassion in us is because of him, as we are created in his image.

 

As an atheist, however, I realize that we created God in our image, making him the epitome of our own values at the time. I am compassionate. God does not exist except as figments in the minds of the delusional.

 

Argh.

[Zephie]

I don't think you're stupid. Not at all. Tis a learned response when we want something so desperately.

I actually thought God might have mercy and compassion.

 

As Christians we believed that God is more compassionate than us, and that the only compassion in us is because of him, as we are created in his image.

 

As an atheist, however, I realize that we created God in our image, making him the epitome of our own values at the time. I am compassionate. God does not exist except as figments in the minds of the delusional.

 

Argh.

 

If god was compassionate then he would have certainly met people's needs and my dad would have a hand. I wouldn't be socially stunted in some areas but I guess that's god's compassion. Eh, whatever. Fuck god. Fuck something that doesn't fucking exist.

 

I hope that someone finds the dog though.

[Positivist]

If god was compassionate then he would have certainly met people's needs and my dad would have a hand. I wouldn't be socially stunted in some areas but I guess that's god's compassion. Eh, whatever. Fuck god. Fuck something that doesn't fucking exist.

 

I hope that someone finds the dog though.

I just got back from the ER as I was dropping something off, and I ran into a fundy acquaintance with a devastating and aggressive neurological condition that is so rare no one knows what to do with her. It pained me to see her in so much pain. Excruciating, and two days ago she lost her ability to walk. She still has faith, even though she agreed with me that her condition (and mine, which pales in comparison) persists just as if God didn't exist.

 

I just marvel at her faith. Her condition was another nail in my faith coffin, and yet she herself still has faith.

 

If I were God, it would kill me to see so much suffering across the world. Including that of your dad.

[Zephie]

If god was compassionate then he would have certainly met people's needs and my dad would have a hand. I wouldn't be socially stunted in some areas but I guess that's god's compassion. Eh, whatever. Fuck god. Fuck something that doesn't fucking exist.

 

I hope that someone finds the dog though.

I just got back from the ER as I was dropping something off, and I ran into a fundy acquaintance with a devastating and aggressive neurological condition that is so rare no one knows what to do with her. It pained me to see her in so much pain. Excruciating, and two days ago she lost her ability to walk. She still has faith, even though she agreed with me that her condition (and mine, which pales in comparison) persists just as if God didn't exist.

 

I just marvel at her faith. Her condition was another nail in my faith coffin, and yet she herself still has faith.

 

If I were God, it would kill me to see so much suffering across the world. Including that of your dad.

 

It's like they live in denial. *sigh*

[traveller2]

Three times now over the past few months i have started to pray a little and then i stopped.Its what 'we' all did in our past lives and its so natural to try it when hard times come upon us now.For me it has helped encoarage my 'still,small'pmsl atheistic spirit.Ech time it happened I stopped and just though what is the point since there is no god anyway.Those prayers were never answered before.Even when desperate god never answered those prayers.just shows how sick and harmful belief in god is.

[TotalWreck]

So I prayed again (see? I told you I was a slow learner ), saying “You know God, this is why so many don’t believe in you. I’m not asking you to heal my friend’s cancer or something big like that. I’m just asking you to bring a dog to my sight line. I'll do the rest!! I just don’t see why it’s so damn difficult to answer the little teeny weeny prayers like this. This is exactly why people don't believe in you. So you can’t act all shocked when believers are dropping like flies or the lake of fire is full to overflowing. It’s shit like this that makes us believe you aren’t there. You gotta admit, the optics kinda suck, God."

 

Gawd, I am so stupid.

 

Don't feel stupid. Most of us have been there, done that, burned the t-shirt.

 

I've done the whole, "This is why people don't believe in you, why don't you try to prove me wrong by answering my prayer?" routine, and of course, it didn't work. I prayed a few times out of complete desperation over the last 6 months since leaving "god", and as usual got no results. If anything, it reaffirmed why I no longer believe in the shit. Now I absolutely REFUSE to pray, no matter how "desperate" of a situation I'm in.

 

Just remember - if you do happen to find the dog, it was YOU who found it, not "god". Don't fall into the "God made this happen in his perfect timing" shit that we all used to fool ourselves into.

[traveller2]

So I prayed again (see? I told you I was a slow learner ), saying “You know God, this is why so many don’t believe in you. I’m not asking you to heal my friend’s cancer or something big like that. I’m just asking you to bring a dog to my sight line. I'll do the rest!! I just don’t see why it’s so damn difficult to answer the little teeny weeny prayers like this. This is exactly why people don't believe in you. So you can’t act all shocked when believers are dropping like flies or the lake of fire is full to overflowing. It’s shit like this that makes us believe you aren’t there. You gotta admit, the optics kinda suck, God."

 

Gawd, I am so stupid.

 

Don't feel stupid. Most of us have been there, done that, burned the t-shirt.

 

I've done the whole, "This is why people don't believe in you, why don't you try to prove me wrong by answering my prayer?" routine, and of course, it didn't work. I prayed a few times out of complete desperation over the last 6 months since leaving "god", and as usual got no results. If anything, it reaffirmed why I no longer believe in the shit. Now I absolutely REFUSE to pray, no matter how "desperate" of a situation I'm in.

 

Just remember - if you do happen to find the dog, it was YOU who found it, not "god". Don't fall into the "God made this happen in his perfect timing" shit that we all used to fool ourselves into.

 

Damn right! really well put!

[Margee]

I was laying in bed this morning thinking of the children who died alone in the woods, the rape on the earth, the poverty, wars, murders, greed, starvation, etc and thought, 'Why would god care about this one little dog?' I've had innocent animals killed and stolen from me all my life. So much heartbreak over all the kitties I've had. God's whole plan for human and animal life completely sucks. Even I could have thought of better ways to have a much gentler life for people on earth, if I had all that supposed power.

 

I was also thinking of all the scriptures that they used to preach to us to build our faith in prayer. Scriptures like you can move mountains with a mustard seed of faith. Then there's the one that says... seek and ye shall find, knock and the door shall be open, blah, blah blah. There are so just so many...... 'nothing is impossible' with god, scriptures.

 

One of my favorites used to be, ''Be assured and understand that the trial and proving of your faith bring out endurance and steadfastness and patience.(James1:3) What a crock of bullshit! Patience? Not for me. Everyday I wake, I fight becoming a pessimistic, bitter human. The 'patience' it was supposed to promote, led to horrid depression for me. Does god give a shit that I suffer this? Doesn't seem like it. If he will allow children to be raped over and over in some of the tribal countries, why would he care that I suffer depression? No, it's up to me to get a good attitude and go for a walk to shake these feelings of disapointment that I have with life.

 

So I will go for a nice walk right now, look at the green grass and the flowers blooming.... and once again today, try to forget the suffering all over the earth.......the suffering that god doesn't care about.

[mwc]

I always hate to admit it but the OP is pretty much "the nail" that did it for me. The kitten that God wouldn't help out. There were tons of reasons but that damn kitten did our relationship in. I folded and went back (for a short time) but I couldn't get around that cat.

 

I could accept not wanting to "reveal" itself to a human. No problem (for some reason). But the kitten ain't talking. The coyote I'm certain that killed it ain't talking. So giving my kitten back is hurting who? No one. Coyote gets a free meal. Kitty loses 1 of 9 lives, gets a bad memory, I get my kitty back and a get into heaven card. Wins all around. But for some reason this is not do-able. My prayer for kitty corpse to bury kitty is a no-go. Nothing. Silence. Dead air.

 

I just couldn't accept how this would be a "miracle" that could never be proved as anything more than kitty wandered off then returned so it's not like I was demanding kitty just appear before me. This was one of those subtle "mysterious" things to simply have happen but attribute to this god as the most amazing thing ever. I was willing and able to do it. There were zero "witnesses" to what was really going on with the kitty resurrection but still nothing.

 

I know I'm rambling but, to me, this seemed the perfect "miracle" opportunity. The everything to gain, nothing to lose if it were to happen. But then when it didn't happen I realized I was the thing to be lost. I was the lamb that left the flock. So was anyone coming to look for me? That was the promise. So I waited. It didn't happen either. Nothing happened. No voice calling me back. I went back but there was nothing there. I left and waited for my shepherd. No one showed up. It was just a confusing, horrible, void. So I called out one last time. Nothing. So I left forever. Ultimately because of a kitten. It took years to realize, or maybe just accept, that cat was pretty much the last straw. (In case anyone is wondering his name was Moe, as in, Eenie, Meenie, Miney and Moe)

 

mwc

[mcdaddy]

Its still weird for me not to pray before eating dinner. Especially in front of the wife. AWWWWWWkkkkwwwwaaaarrrrddd...

[Thought2Much]

Positivist, you're not stupid! You were just performing an experiment to see if you could falsify a hypothesis!

[Akheia]

I hope you guys find the dog. I, too, don't understand why Christians think that animal suffering in any way shows God's grace and divine love. If anything it shows he's a brutal monster, to design a world in which animals *can* suffer.

 

The whole yes/no/wait thing can't be falsified, though, not to Christians. That's the problem with it. EVERY prayer, to EVERY god, for EVERY possible situation can be given the exact same set of yes/no/wait parameters and "shown" to be supported. Ask one "What would need to happen evidence-wise to show that god isn't actually answering any prayers at all and that whatever happens is just random chance?" and enjoy the blank look you get.

[blackpudd1n]

Its still weird for me not to pray before eating dinner. Especially in front of the wife. AWWWWWWkkkkwwwwaaaarrrrddd...

 

 

Oh, I can totally relate to this. I ended up having lunch at the in-laws' today, as a compromise for mother's day, and it felt so damn weird just dishing up and getting stuck into eating. Saying grace used to really annoy me- just letting the food go cold, really. And saying grace is mean- like, everyone's starving, yet some bastard insists on droning on. That being said, though, it is a hard habit to break, so I wouldn't feel silly, Positivist- old habits die hard, and considering how many times a day I used to talk to god, well, it's no wonder I never shut up anymore!

[blackpudd1n]

And I really hope you find that dog. Have you tried shaking a bag of food, or maybe taking some meat with you? A dog's sense of smell and hearing is far superior to humans. You've probably already tried that, but I thought I'd suggest it, just in case.

[Margee]

I hope you guys find the dog. I, too, don't understand why Christians think that animal suffering in any way shows God's grace and divine love. If anything it shows he's a brutal monster, to design a world in which animals *can* suffer.

 

The whole yes/no/wait thing can't be falsified, though, not to Christians. That's the problem with it. EVERY prayer, to EVERY god, for EVERY possible situation can be given the exact same set of yes/no/wait parameters and "shown" to be supported. Ask one "What would need to happen evidence-wise to show that god isn't actually answering any prayers at all and that whatever happens is just random chance?" and enjoy the blank look you get.

 

[Akheia]

It's probably not the right time for me to suggest a HIPSTER MACRO THREAD, ROLL! derail. But my honey bought me instant coffee that I am positive is decaf by accident (the package is all in Spanish, which I speak about as well as Peggy Hill, so I'm not sure if the "decaf" word on the back refers to other varieties of coffee it wants me to try, or is describing what's in the package itself), so I'm feeling loopy this morning.

 

If God's a husband and his followers are the Bride, then I don't understand why the Bride doesn't divorce his ass for being so distant and quiet. I sure as hell wouldn't put up with a husband who never talked, punished me for stuff I didn't even know about and had to figure out on my own was in need of fixing, and tried to "teach" me using the yes/no/wait method God uses on his people. For a friend and lover, he's a piss-poor one. And yet there's that part of us that desperately wishes there was a big magic daddy in the sky who could do the things we can't do ourselves--like find a poor lost dog in a wilderness. I have no idea how to find a dog, but the meat idea sounds good. Poor little thing is probably hungry as hell.

[GardenerGal]

if god is really our ego, then prayer is calling out our inner strength. I often wonder what our minds are really capable of once we stop expecting a higher power to do all of our heavy lifting.

 

i hope you find the dog... as Carl S posted today on the site, we skeptics are sensitive folks... we care greatly for the suffering of others. which would explain why my pups and two farm kitties have a large bed and a pool to lounge out on the deck. farm cats are supposed to be wild... mine are an exception.

[norton65ca]

As some who have read my extimony thread will know, we recently lost a cat of thirteen years, Ginger. However, we also lost another cat to what we assume was a predator right before we got Ginger, his name was Tigger, another orange one...

I can honestly say now, with the benefit of hindsight that that loss was definitely a nail in the coffin of my faith. I saw at the time that our (wife and I) miniscule requests that we poured out for days in buckets of tears to have the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY WHO MADE THE ENTIRE FUCKING COSMOS AND EVERYTHING IN IT return our little Tigger to us was beneath him or he simply couldn't be bothered. I know he was simply an orange cat, but we loved him as much as we loved poor Ginger, who died in our home. We never found Tigger, whether it was stray dogs, the Bald Eagles who nest in the nearby park or the occasional cougar who passes through town along the beach, we'll never know, but it was such a tiny, insignificant request. So infinitesimally small and so easy for the omnipotent cunt to answer. no answer. I don't think my faith ever recovered but back into the locked box it went, the locked strongbox of un-solveable troubling issues with faith. Till this year when it finally fell to pieces.

It really is astonishing how much we care for our small furry friends, and how much their loss affects us. I can so identify with many of the posts on this thread.

[Akheia]

Oh Norton. Tigger wasn't "simply" an orange cat. He was a friend and a beloved member of your family. You're totally allowed to be upset and sad at his passing, and angry at the idea of a supposedly all-wonderful god who just couldn't be bothered to get him home safely. If anybody wants to give you shit over feeling wrought up over a friend's passing like that, tell 'em they're welcome to come talk to me. I'll gladly let loose both barrels of my sailor-daddy lexicon on the insensitive cretin. I ain't had such an opportunity since Portal of Evil closed, so don't deny me this opportunity should it arise. I'm counting on you.

[norton65ca]

^^^ "like"

[kittypaws]

Norton, I've been only lurking for quite a while now and there have been several times I've wanted to reply but felt like I'd be intruding. That's why I didn't reply when you first posted about losing Ginger. I cried when I read your thread then but chickened out of replying. This brought tears to my eyes again and now I just want to say how sorry I am for your loss(es).

 

I still cry when I think of the two cats I've lost over the years. They ARE our family members, and I pity people who have never felt that closeness with a non-human animal.