Black-Box Intelligence

[Amethyst]

The apparent effort to expand oneself (through family, wealth, or influence) was noticed very long ago and gave rise to the governing strategy which came to be known as Satanism. The abstract concept applies both to the physical world (like expanding gases, electric fields, or fires) as well as to every living thing (plants included). This was considered to be a truly wise observation for good reason. It was noted as the first bright star in the heavens which led to a type of heaven for a very select few. It was the height of intelligence at the time.

 

Woah, hold on there. I was following most of this until I got up to here. How exactly does managing one's own resources automatically equate with Satanism? Managing your resources in order to get more resources is the way the world works. That's Business 101. It's got nothing to do with an imaginary being who doesn't exist.

[Ssel]

Woah, hold on there. I was following most of this until I got up to here. How exactly does managing one's own resources automatically equate with Satanism? Managing your resources in order to get more resources is the way the world works. That's Business 101. It's got nothing to do with an imaginary being who doesn't exist.

Whoa...slow down. The thing I was saying was “Satanism”, is a governing methodology, like Nazism, Socialism, or Capitalism. I wasn't referring to the people within except that those people are governed in such a way as to cause them to have to endlessly struggle with false hopes of progress.

 

A more specific example would be something like only selling cars that are virtually guaranteed to fail or need upgrades of some kind in a very short time, yet appear to be something you could keep for life. The person spends their entire life buying the same machined transport at the end of which is left nothing. There are far worse things involved, this is just a small example of a governing method which ensures the wealth of the governance at the expense of the individual. This is a long subject to go through all of the nuances of this one governing method and its primary principles (those "fallen angels" = supporting concepts).

 

Specifically in Satanism, the proper political cry is that a person can freely do anything they enjoy as long as they cooperate with the governance which keeps them free from the “oppressor”. The urge to seek what a person enjoys is actually an instinctive derivative of survival even though it might not appear that way at all. These unrestrained temptations prevent the mind from ever figuring out what it truly needs or doesn’t. The mind becomes blinded by both passions which become too extreme and by not ever having anything to compare against so as to make proper assessments. The individual becomes futilized. But during their entire struggle, they are taxed thus becoming basically a burning fuel cell.

 

This is not a black-or-white issue either. The wisdom of doing things a certain way is entirely dependant on awareness of any better way. Humanity goes through different eras because they learn of things which appeared to be good ideas at the time, but then realized something better. Sometimes the something better was the same as something they had abandoned before. It is all a learning process as to how to maintain life. Currently the social idea is that individuals are not what is important, the government must survive even at the expense of all of its people. I'm not advocating compliance nor rebellion. I'm just stating the "unleavened bread". It is a part of how intelligence evolves into a higher order as well as being related to religious preachings. The idea that Satan is an invisible ghostly supernatural being is only the Santa-Claus personification of a particular oppressive governing style.

 

Note that often I refer to "the governance", not "the government". People are governed by far more than merely the official government. This is another long story.

[thomas]

There is no reason for "giving" humans (or any organism) a sex drive.

Thomas, what would you say actually initiates the cause and effect chain which leads to the sex drive or desire for sex? (something a little closer to the present than the Big Bang )

 

In other words, where did it probably come from? What is the cause of it being what it is? (not purpose)

 

I am not sure what kind of answer you want. In your line of thinking, I guess, everything in the universe is seeking some kind of reunification, and the desire for sex can then be explained as a desire for reunification. But it does not explain the "goal" of spreading DNA.

[Saviourmachine]

Off-topic: satanism

 

Note that often I refer to "the governance", not "the government". People are governed by far more than merely the official government. This is another long story.

Can you explain that futher? What kind of satanism are you talking about? This seems very different from what is written in the Satanic Bible [LaVey] in the book of Belial:

Belial means "without a master," and symbolizes true independence, self-sufficiency, and personal accomplishment. Belial represnents the earth element, and herein will be found magic with both feet on the ground - real, hard-core, magical procedure - not mystical platitudes devoid of objective reason. Probe no longer. Here is bedrock!

 

And the Satanic Bible writes this about someones inner state.

Indulgence instead of abstinence.

People often mistake compulsion for indulgence, but there is a world of difference between the two. A compulsion is never created by indulging, but by not able to indulge. By making something taboo, it only serves to intensify the desire. ... indulgence implies choice, whereas compulsion indicates the lack of choice.

So that even implies that such a person does seem to reach for real autonomy. Is this a distorted form of satanism?

[Saviourmachine]

Off-topic / to detailed:

 

Anyway, I hope you don't mind. I've been searching - of course - for articles that combine feedforward systems with proactivity. Most people have it the other way around. This text is introductionary to feedforward control. It handles the ability of a system in feedforward to contain a model that will help the feedback loop by predicting the control variable. It describes its application like this:

If a load change in a process occurs so frequently that the controller cannot keep up, or if disturbance is so large that the controlled variable cannot be held within tolerable limits, and if the disturbance variable itself cannot be controlled, consider adding feedforward control to the system.

 

Also I found this document, so you have at least one person that agrees with you, some Peter Hodson at the University of Glamorgan. But so far he is the only one I found. Can you help me, please?

[Amanda]

Well, I probably deserve that, I got a little carried away. You are obviously not getting anything out of this. I’m certainly not. So one must wonder why anyone bothers. But then, that leads into the next concept and issue.

Hello Ssel! I hope you weren't being a little too sensitive? It's nice to have diversity, and especially as it was presented to you in such a respectful manner.

 

I was thinking of getting into emotions next, where they come from and how they end up as they are seen. But the subject of where they come from gets back into that same subject of intent and purpose, so..

------------------------------------------

Now this effect can be circumvented by another surviving being continually cultivating a life that could not survive on its own. But in an abstract sense, due to the interdependency and harmony, the beings are symbiotically one (even if they are not aware of the dependency).

 

Wow! Did I miss something? I was hoping to see HOW this system goes from a mechanized version of intelligence to a natural form. I suspect it would make the leap into higher forms of intelligence through the advent of emotions, however this seems to need to take the 'self-awareness' aspect and assimilate it's correspondence to other's 'self-awareness' forming an empathetic nature. Initially, I'm wondering how this came about, where this would go, and the evolution of this aspect.

So the question rises, why are so many people so wrapped up in other things? The answer to this lay in the demonstrated fact that survival is no trivial issue. The variety of challenges which can be thrust at a living being are so vast that it requires a tremendous amount of experimenting with passions in every direction just to find what works at any one moment. And this is very related to exactly why religions are what they are.

The empathetic aspect to govern, and the evolved reasoning to understand 'why', as all this collective awareness contributes to our survival?

 

I'm very interested in what you're saying, I just seemed to have missed a couple concepts that I think it is of which you have the understanding.

[Ssel]

First, let me correct an implication I think I have made. Satanism is not defined by the characteristic that I pointed out of leading people through a futile struggle until they finally expire. Satanism is defined by its 5 foundation principles which were intended to create a perfect governing method. I was intending to merely refer to the early methods of handling the apparent urge for all life to competitively expand. Satanism is not the ONLY method which does this in this way.

Off-topic: satanism

 

Note that often I refer to "the governance", not "the government". People are governed by far more than merely the official government. This is another long story.

Can you explain that futher?..

People are almost totally controlled by their perception of reality. Reality itself very often allows for opportunities which go unseen, thus giving the impression that reality is the trap, when actually the trap was merely the perception of the trap.

 

A “government” is the political and military aspect of control. But the world is governed also by what could be called the spiritual, mental, or psychological perceptions. But where there are two, there are always 3. The third world of control is that between the first 2, the world of medicine, physiology, biochemistry. These 3 worlds have their own separate geography across the Earth and between their combined influence, all life is governed. In the USA these 3 used to be very distinctly the totality of governance. Today, in the new order efforts, very many departments have been formed to handle overlapping concerns.

 

During a recent administration an attempt was made to allow the political/military government to also take over the medical governance. This would have caused an extreme advantage which would very quickly proceed to take over the spiritual governance (the religions and media). At this point a Pharaoh “Priest-King” would have been created, unstoppable and capable of changing any laws to anything they wanted regardless of anything the population had to say.

 

Something similar to this is actually going on today, but not for the exact same reasons. Merely look around you and see what things prevent you from doing things. They can be categorized as “the physical”, “the spiritual”, and “the medical”. But merely control your belief or perception of these things and you are almost totally controlled. Those who control these things, in combination, control all things simply because there IS nothing else. This totally controlled perception was depicted in a recent motion picture “The Matrix”. The “Rage Against the Machine” social move was an effort to resist the system in such a way as to sure it up.

 

If you were to discover exactly who is controlling these overlapping worlds, then world events would seem much more understandable, but you would, no doubt, be very upset that the “who” wasn’t who you would have expected. The world is filled with extreme deceptions (clouds in the mind).

 

Belial means "without a master," and symbolizes true independence, self-sufficiency, and personal accomplishment. Belial represnents the earth element, and herein will be found magic with both feet on the ground - real, hard-core, magical procedure - not mystical platitudes devoid of objective reason. Probe no longer. Here is bedrock!

The statement “Belial represents the earth element” is not exactly correct, but might be sufficient for the LaVey’s intent. But this part of the writing is doing exactly as I said. It is alluding to the idea that you can be free of the “oppressor” and have great power of your own. It, of course displays the idea in a positive light as to say “isn’t this obviously a good thing”. Every political party (including religions and anti-religions) does that because it works on the great many not familiar with the tactic.

 

The most common tactic for selling a book is to say a little bit that is real so as to lure the reader into thinking that he is holding a great deal of real. The reader is willing to accept the notion because he WANTS it to be true. Passions, especially of greed and sexual lust override subtle reason. I’m tempted to ask, “How much did you pay him to tell you the world’s most supreme magical power? Don’t you think that if he really had such a thing, he would have better things to do than sell books?”

 

it only serves to intensify the desire. ... indulgence implies choice, whereas compulsion indicates the lack of choice.

This is a true statement although more correctly stated as “compulsion indicates a perceived oppression.” But note the original cause of the desire is not mentioned and that is the topic here. It is true, however, that once a desire gets seeded, it can be amplified through oppression. The oppression is more often only perceived and isn’t real. An example is the young boy who is afraid to mix at the party. He feels the oppression of his own fears. If this continues for too long, he will break free of his self imposed oppression into an excess in the opposite direction. Sometimes this leads to sudden breaking into extreme rage against any sign of oppression even though the oppression had very little to do with others. A general law of nature is that extremes create their own extreme opposition.

 

LaVey is selling you the book in the hopes that you are desiring to be free of those nasty oppressors and are willing to believe that he is delivering you freedom.

 

The selling of the book is the variation on Satanism. Satanism utilizes people's weaknesses so as to lure them into spending thier energies in a futilizing manner. I can virtually guarantee that the book does NOT reveal true Satanism at all. A simple, safe test, is to look for the 5 fundamental principles which yield a ring of fire (the social kind) which, in turn protects the governance from all interference. Then look at the logic of it, would those things, if they are presented, really yield total control and more importantly what happens when many have the same formula? Real Satanism protects only one – the governance.

 

Is the purpose of intelligent life perhaps to simply seek power? It would often seem so.

[Ssel]

Wow! Did I miss something? I was hoping to see HOW this system goes from a mechanized version of intelligence to a natural form. I suspect it would make the leap into higher forms of intelligence through the advent of emotions,

Calm down, we're getting there

How the entire mind works wasn't really what I intended with this thread. But the basic definition needs for the debates have been covered so I'm getting into the vast area of how a mind functions, higher intelligence and its relationship to governing entities like religions.

 

I jumped from the lower mass of elements up to the topic of consciousness. I'm expecting to fill in that gap which is where the emotions are seen (and felt.. ).

 

The empathetic aspect to govern, and the evolved reasoning to understand 'why', as all this collective awareness contributes to our survival?

Yes, it's really ALL about survival. Evolution actually asserts this inevitability. But the question becomes, WHO survives and at what expense. Each living entity votes for itself... or does it?

[Ssel]

Satanism depends entirely on its “ring of fire” while it uses its 5 principles to keep itself isolated from the flames yet feeding them. Satanism is not the only system which uses such a ring. The Jewish methodology uses a similar fire. This is what the “burning bush” story is about.

 

The ring of fire is made up of the masses, the population. The population is encouraged to take offense and give offense, at the drop of a hat, and to seek every greed and lust. By doing this, the masses contend with each other endlessly and produce a “lake of fire”. The masses can never gain enough strength in unity such as to challenge the governance and any approaching union from elsewhere must find its way through the fire before it can get to the somewhat invisible instigating governance. The problem with this is that the people being in such constant contention are left miserable, having to struggle with every step, and many, in an effort to simply please others fall into a trap of self-defeatism.

 

When Jesus came on the scene and saw all of this going on. He resolved a method to put an end to such torturous methods. To resolve the fire, He taught;

 

“thoroughly enjoy the simple needs of life” – (the “water to wine”) thus not being so greedy

 

“love thy brother as thyself” and “do unto others as you would have them do unto you” – unite with your neighbors in a cooperative struggle against the common miseries.

 

“turn the other cheek” – refuse to fight and contend even when an offense is given.

 

“give him your coat and whatever else is yours to give” – hold onto nothing that can be so easily taken from you, your angry passion will destroy you.

 

“be as innocent children”, “be as the lilies in the field” – chill out and enjoy what you have, refuse to struggle greatly with fearful concern.

 

“your faith has healed you”, “faith can move mountains” – calm patience destroys the feedback affect of self-defeatism. Accept that it is okay that people might not like you or what you need to do. It is okay that you have some ailment that oppresses you. Patiently and calmly wait for the opportunity to take up the challenge. Ailments have their own weaknesses. Stay faithfully calm enough to see them.

 

When people heard this and tried it a little, the contrast was enormous. The fires of contention immediately began to fade. The governing bodies which depended on those fires became justly alarmed. Even a single hole in the eternal ring of flames prevents the governance from maintaining its hold.

 

Great lengths were gone to so as to re-inspire people into suspicion, fear, offense, greed, and lust, but Jesus had capped off His message with an undauntable concept – the concept of loving such a peaceful way of living so as to even give your life in its name, and then He proved His dedication. This is why priests agreed to never kill even in self-defense.

 

As long as there is a true Christianity, Satanism and all similar methodologies are paralyzed and will go to any extreme to promote self-concern, suspicion, fear, greed, and lust. Look around you.

 

But now 3 questions arise;

 

1) Why do those temptations even exist?

2) How does the effort to survive wind up being a willingness to die?

3) Jesus asked a question just before He died, the question has been answered by both proponents and adversaries, but it has never been answered in the way He was looking for – “Why, Father hast thou forsaken me?”

 

With your patience, we will answer all 3 of these questions.

 

And if your really patient, the fourth;

 

4) What can be done about it all?

[Amanda]

As long as there is a true Christianity, Satanism and all similar methodologies are paralyzed and will go to any extreme to promote self-concern, suspicion, fear, greed, and lust. Look around you.

 

But now 3 questions arise;

 

1) Why do those temptations even exist?

2) How does the effort to survive wind up being a willingness to die?

3) Jesus asked a question just before He died, the question has been answered by both proponents and adversaries, but it has never been answered in the way He was looking for – “Why, Father hast thou forsaken me?”

 

With your patience, we will answer all 3 of these questions.

 

And if your really patient, the fourth;

 

4) What can be done about it all?

 

Hi Ssel!

I understand and basically agree with your concept, yet I don't think your labeling process is going to win you any awards here. Maybe just relying on these concepts will allow more participation and less controversy? It is the concept that is important, IMO.

 

IMHO, the answer to

1. A perceived benefit?

2. To perpetuate an offspring and/or give credence to securing a more positive perceived larger picture for survival of the masses? One for all, all for one?

3. His spirit of Life, the essence of enlightening, is left behind to eventually dwell in each person for the purpose of directing ALL into collective harmony and regards of what keeps one there?

4. There is no simple solution to complex questions?

 

BTW, this has really made some jumps here... so I hope this is filling in the holes.

[NotBlinded]

As long as there is a true Christianity, Satanism and all similar methodologies are paralyzed and will go to any extreme to promote self-concern, suspicion, fear, greed, and lust. Look around you.

 

But now 3 questions arise;

 

1) Why do those temptations even exist?

2) How does the effort to survive wind up being a willingness to die?

3) Jesus asked a question just before He died, the question has been answered by both proponents and adversaries, but it has never been answered in the way He was looking for – “Why, Father hast thou forsaken me?”

 

With your patience, we will answer all 3 of these questions.

 

And if your really patient, the fourth;

 

4) What can be done about it all?

 

Hi Ssel!

I understand and basically agree with your concept, yet I don't think your labeling process is going to win you any awards here. Maybe just relying on these concepts will allow more participation and less controversy? It is the concept that is important, IMO.

 

IMHO, the answer to

1. A perceived benefit?

2. To perpetuate an offspring and/or give credence to securing a more positive perceived larger picture for survival of the masses? One for all, all for one?

3. His spirit of Life, the essence of enlightening, is left behind to eventually dwell in each person for the purpose of directing ALL into collective harmony and regards of what keeps one there?

4. There is no simple solution to complex questions?

 

BTW, this has really made some jumps here... so I hope this is filling in the holes.

I would also like to give my understanding:

 

1. Being of mind and form, we are prone to opposites unlike our spiritual Self. The more we evolve, the less prone we will be. But, we must first pass through these temptations in order to recognize the opposite.

2. The willingness to die is only in physical form. The opposite of death is birth, not life. So, are we dying?

3. Of course that is hard due to translation. Doesn't the Hebrew meaning of the word mean to glorify, bring peace or raise in triumph? If that is the case, it's a moment of spiritual conquest amongst people that do not understand (forgive them for they know not what they do). He was willing to die as an act of compassion so that mankind may know that they too can overcome.

4. Recognize the ego for what it is?

 

Just some thoughts.

[Amanda]

 

Hey Blindedbytheblight, you didn't have to put my answers with yours and make me look so bad!

 

Yep, you're right... I still have ego issues!

 

Great insight girl!

[Ssel]

Taking the first question first - Why do these temptations even exist?

 

1. A perceived benefit?

 

1. Being of mind and form, we are prone to opposites unlike our spiritual Self. The more we evolve, the less prone we will be. But, we must first pass through these temptations in order to recognize the opposite.

 

Both of these answers are relevant.

 

As we initially discussed, intelligence is a “problem solving” process, so…. “what’s the problem?”

 

The evolution process forces the problem to be simply the problem of trying to continue, because without continuing, any other goal becomes forfeit.

 

If you examine, very closely and carefully, ALL human incentive at its most base point, what you get is a list of requirements for anything to attempt in order for it to continue. In other words, all of human temptations and urges are derived from the effort to simply keep alive. But these concepts, although deep inborn into the person, are far more clever than the people they inhabit.

 

The DNA spreads, but why? It has a cause that science can identify, but what purpose does it serve in doing so? It obviously helps to cause the survival of the species. So does it love “the species” and thus goes to all this trouble to serve who it loves? I suspect not.

 

Actually, the spreading and/or growing process serve the cause of protection. The DNA is surrounding itself with itself. It is creating a harmonious shelter – the body. But unlike the hard shelters that the human builds for his protection against the weather, the DNA simply surrounds itself with a living shelter which is capable of expanding to the point where distant needs can be met that could have never been met by a lone DNA.

 

If you haven’t noticed, the DNA basically creates a family (the body). A human creates a family. A family creates a community (a larger family). A community creates a society. And a society creates a nation. See the pattern? Why are all of the stages basically the same thing? From the DNA to the world of Mankind, every stage is merely growing more of itself, surrounding itself.

 

How does this relate to survival?

[Amanda]

How does this relate to survival?

 

I thought the growth rate of DNA in a population is a function of the overall individual's capability to survive, and their successful proficiency at procreating. This is the core idea of evolution.

 

I would think that DNA has no real intelligence. It seems if one would even consider allocating intelligence in this area, it would be to the mRNA.

 

[Ssel]

Yes, as you can see, the DNA is surviving due to the human’s ability to survive and the human’s ability to survive is enhanced by the community’s ability to survive and the community’s ability to survive is enhanced by the society’s ability to survive and the society’s ability to survive is enhanced by the nation’s ability to survive.

 

When you think about, it is staggering that such a tiny molecule has managed to produce, for its protection, an entire elite national defense system. If you think about the original DNA/RNA effort from millions of years ago, the entirety of the human race and all of its devices to defend itself, came from that tiny molecule merely trying to survive.

 

This is an issue that neither the evolutionist nor the ID proponent contends. It is independent of whether God intervenes or not. The effort to survive is still the apparent beginning “problem solving” intelligence which yielded the entire world of humanity.

 

Any arguments, thus far?

[Amanda]

OK, that's a unique way of looking at it.

 

Are you taking into consideration only human DNA? Or are you saying all 'intelligent' life has become ordered this way?

[NotBlinded]

 

Hey Blindedbytheblight, you didn't have to put my answers with yours and make me look so bad!

 

Yep, you're right... I still have ego issues!

 

Great insight girl!

Oh crap Amanda...I didn't mean to make it look like that! I thought my answers looked worse than yours! I didn't notice any ego issues with you. I am so sorry...sometimes I come across wrong. Please forgive me!

 

 

Taking the first question first - Why do these temptations even exist?

 

1. A perceived benefit?

 

1. Being of mind and form, we are prone to opposites unlike our spiritual Self. The more we evolve, the less prone we will be. But, we must first pass through these temptations in order to recognize the opposite.

 

Both of these answers are relevant.

 

As we initially discussed, intelligence is a “problem solving” process, so…. “what’s the problem?”

 

The evolution process forces the problem to be simply the problem of trying to continue, because without continuing, any other goal becomes forfeit.

 

If you examine, very closely and carefully, ALL human incentive at its most base point, what you get is a list of requirements for anything to attempt in order for it to continue. In other words, all of human temptations and urges are derived from the effort to simply keep alive. But these concepts, although deep inborn into the person, are far more clever than the people they inhabit.

 

The DNA spreads, but why? It has a cause that science can identify, but what purpose does it serve in doing so? It obviously helps to cause the survival of the species. So does it love “the species” and thus goes to all this trouble to serve who it loves? I suspect not.

 

Actually, the spreading and/or growing process serve the cause of protection. The DNA is surrounding itself with itself. It is creating a harmonious shelter – the body. But unlike the hard shelters that the human builds for his protection against the weather, the DNA simply surrounds itself with a living shelter which is capable of expanding to the point where distant needs can be met that could have never been met by a lone DNA.

 

If you haven’t noticed, the DNA basically creates a family (the body). A human creates a family. A family creates a community (a larger family). A community creates a society. And a society creates a nation. See the pattern? Why are all of the stages basically the same thing? From the DNA to the world of Mankind, every stage is merely growing more of itself, surrounding itself.

 

How does this relate to survival?

Who was it that said something to the extent of, "The body is the universe in minature."?

[Ssel]

Who was it that said something to the extent of, "The body is the universe in minature."?

Dunno, but on an abstract level, such a thing can be said. Although takng it to the "universe" level is a bit of a stretch with what we have talked about so far.

 

Mankind as a whole can easily be said to be the body of humanity. The interesting part to me is that it represents a mere DNA's attempt to survive.

 

And, Amanda, I was refering to only human, but the same concept could apply to any species of life or to Life in totom.

[Amanda]

The interesting part to me is that it represents a mere DNA's attempt to survive.

It seems to me, DNA is the key to survival in all life forms.

 

It is the core of survival, and life itself.

DNA may represent the record of the evolution of intelligence?

Are you insinuating it holds the essence of consciousness?

Or does consciousness revere the essence of DNA for its tool to manifest?

 

So, exactly, what are you saying about DNA?

[NotBlinded]

Dunno, but on an abstract level, such a thing can be said. Although takng it to the "universe" level is a bit of a stretch with what we have talked about so far.

 

Found it...

 

Lao Tzu, the Chinese philosopher stated, “The universe is a man on a large scale.”

[Amanda]

Lao Tzu, the Chinese philosopher stated, “The universe is a man on a large scale.”

Then, interestingly, the opposite can be said to be true too...

that man is the universe on a small scale?

 

Life is self ogranization.

We can not evolve in the universe, but harmoniously with it.

Organs dependently intercorrelating, creating the whole Oganism...

 

I can agree with that.

 

So, how exactly does DNA fit into this picture?

[NotBlinded]

Lao Tzu, the Chinese philosopher stated, “The universe is a man on a large scale.”

Then, interestingly, the opposite can be said to be true too...

that man is the universe on a small scale?

 

Life is self ogranization.

We can not evolve in the universe, but harmoniously with it.

Organs dependently intercorrelating, creating the whole Oganism...

 

I can agree with that.

 

So, how exactly does DNA fit into this picture?

That last question is for Ssel right? Because, I have no idea.

[Amanda]

That last question is for Ssel right? Because, I have no idea.

Sorry Blindedbytheblight!

Yes, I've been sitting on the edge of my seat for this one from Ssel.

 

DNA IS information. How that equates to 'intelligence' is interesting as he is presenting it. AND, it is not usable without RNA, so.....

 

I'm interested in how it relates to consciousness, at any level?

Did it make consciousness, or did consciousness make it, or did they make each other?

 

 

Or which came first, the chicken or the egg?

 

Plus, there are some holes to be filled...

 

I think Ssel has an answer, he's just probably trying to determine if this is the right time to present it. Ssel, please present SOMEthing.

[NotBlinded]

Did it make consciousness, or did consciousness make it, or did they make each other?

I like the idea that maybe it IS consciousness. Like the quote you listed in the other thread from Carl Sagan. We are the eyes of this consciousness.

[Ssel]

Well, it has become obvious to me that attempting to continue this thread’s line of reasoning is absolutely pointless.

 

When a speaker is trying to relay a thought, it is required that he speak in the mental language of the listener. If speaking to a young child, then thoughts must be arranged in such a manner that the child can follow from where he is to where the speaker is going. When talking to a widely dispersed group, very little can be relayed. When speaking to a single person or a group with much mentally in common, progress can be made.

 

When the speaker needs to build a foundation of related thoughts so as to finally get to the more important thoughts, progress must begin from where ever the listener is, to where the speaker wishes to build. This thread is that type.

 

If a discussion begins with one person but then shifts to a very different mindset person, the needs of building are destroyed. Either the initial person must take it up again, or the speaker must start with the new person from the beginning.