Ricknlia Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Is the widespread hatred of Christianity evidence that it is "truth"? I am a newly de-converted Christian and this is one of my mom's arguments for Christianity. Along with the hatred for the Jews throughout history and the worldwide spread of the Jewish people. Thank you for your thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Marty Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 The Nazi's were pretty powerful, widely hated by the world and overtook Europe in an extremely short amount of time. That must be evidence of their truthfulness too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 If the premise is so, then Islam wins hands down. As-salamu alaykum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue elephant Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 There is a lot of hatred of Muslims lurking in the US as well. I don't think your mom would want to continue that line of reasoning after she is confronted by the examples from this thread! One of the arguments advanced for Christianity used to be "People were willing to die for these beliefs, so they must be true". I suspect that they don't use that argument much after the events of 9 September 2001???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted October 19, 2013 Super Moderator Share Posted October 19, 2013 The even greater widespread hatred of Scientology proves it is the One True Religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 While we are at it, morontheist hatred of atheists must then prove that they are really right to, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawn Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 What a dumb argument. Your mom needs a class in basic logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybaris Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Is the widespread hatred of Christianity evidence that it is "truth"? Is that the latest argument circulating the pulpits? Sounds like a spin on the "persecuted christian". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawn Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Considering christianity is the most popular religion on the planet, and by FAR a HUGE MAJORITY in the US, the hate is definitely not very widespread. Tell her, "mom, I have realized that the hatred for homosexuals is WAY more widespread than the hatred of christianity, so it must be the truth, therefore I have decided to become a homosexual." Then just sit quietly waiting for her response. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogueScholar Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Do not forget that atheists often top polls of most hated or distrusted groups of people in the United States. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Is the widespread hatred of Christianity evidence that it is "truth"? I am a newly de-converted Christian and this is one of my mom's arguments for Christianity. Along with the hatred for the Jews throughout history and the worldwide spread of the Jewish people. Thank you for your thoughts. I see no “evidence” there is widespread hatred for Christianity. The American versions of Christianity have clearly lost the unchallenged widespread acceptance they have previously enjoyed. American Christianity seems to be going the way it did in Europe. Losing popularity isn’t the same thing as being hated. The proximate cause for this decline can more than likely be attributed to the internet in large measure. The internet brings nearly unlimited educational material to vast numbers of people with the click of a mouse. That is the reason I left Christianity, and I believe that is probably true for a lot of others who have walked away from their religion. When any religion is investigated from a historical perspective its flaws are exposed to the light of day. Once its mysteries are analyzed and exposed its power to indoctrinate is nullified. If religions are unable to indoctrinate their adherents they have no power to control or manipulate and without that they have nothing. Their “religion” is exposed for what it is and that is simply a collection of myths and legends created by ancient nomadic tribes, with no knowledge of science and possessing no technology, who were simply trying to come to grips with the awesome power and wonder of nature. I don’t hate Christians or Christianity, but I often find both of them annoying. I try to avoid fundamentalists because they tend to be just too weird. They are perfect examples of what happens to people when they let others do all the thinking for them. They turn into religious zombies. As far as “evidence” goes there isn’t any as in absolutely none that Christianity is true. Outside the gospels no evidence has been found thus far that anybody living at that time ever heard of a person named Jesus of Nazareth. Even Christians, who have actually studied these issues, acknowledge there is no evidence whatsoever that a man named Jesus of Nazareth ever existed. I would encourage you to read these authors, Bart Ehrman, Robert M Price, Elaine Pagels, and even Marcus Borg who is a Christian Apologist. He acknowledges the bible isn’t literally true. I also encourage you to read “The Jesus Puzzle” by Earl Doherty. You can find it on line here. http://www.jesuspuzzle.humanists.net/home.htm You would probably find this site helpful too. http://www.pocm.info/ Knowledge is power. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricknlia Posted October 19, 2013 Author Share Posted October 19, 2013 She believes that the persecution of Christians throughout history is evidence of Satan trying to destroy God's people. But haven't all religions been persecuted at some point or another? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted October 19, 2013 Super Moderator Share Posted October 19, 2013 But haven't all religions been persecuted at some point or another? Absolutely. Usually by another crackpot religion. Sometimes by an unfriendly government. It's still happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antix Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 She believes that the persecution of Christians throughout history is evidence of Satan trying to destroy God's people. But haven't all religions been persecuted at some point or another? What about in Pakistan and Bangladesh where hindus are seriously abused and also the opposite in highly hindu areas of india where muslims are abused? What about the torturing and killing of Buddhuists in vietnam yrs ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Is the widespread hatred of Christianity evidence that it is "truth"? I am a newly de-converted Christian and this is one of my mom's arguments for Christianity. Along with the hatred for the Jews throughout history and the worldwide spread of the Jewish people. Thank you for your thoughts. Welcome timnlla! You will find that your mother will repeat a number of horrible apologetic explanations and all of them lead to unsatisfying answers. No, I've never met her and I don't know her. But I do know the force that has been feeding and shaping her thinking. You might want to save yourself some stress and avoid talking about religion with her. That is what I do with my mother. Whenever she brings up religion I say my code phrase "You wouldn't like that at all". Then I don't have to get into a huge argument with her about her crazy religion. It's not my job to try to deconvert her (which is impossible since we can only deconvert ourselves). As for your questions it's not just religions that are persecuted. Religion is one thing that divide people into groups but there are many other types of groups. And humans in different groups compete against each other. It doesn't make one group better than the next or their cause true. Historically Christians have done a lot of persecuting of other religions. If persecution of Christianity proves that Christianity is true then why would Christianity turn the tables and prove other religions are true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricknlia Posted October 19, 2013 Author Share Posted October 19, 2013 Right. I am not a debating type of person. I am fine with whatever other people want to believe. But admittedly, some of the things she says stirs my fears up that I am making the wrong choice. As I said, I am in the beginning stages of this thing and I know from everything I have been reading that it gets easier with time. I do have another question. I will post it here, but if I am supposed to start a new thread please let me know. I am new to this kind of website where I am communicating with people like this. Here is my question: How can I be sure that my "falling away" isn't the fulfillment of the prophecy that in the last days there will be a great falling away and even the elect will be deceived? This thought keeps haunting me right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricknlia Posted October 19, 2013 Author Share Posted October 19, 2013 Is the widespread hatred of Christianity evidence that it is "truth"? I am a newly de-converted Christian and this is one of my mom's arguments for Christianity. Along with the hatred for the Jews throughout history and the worldwide spread of the Jewish people. Thank you for your thoughts. Welcome timnlla! You will find that your mother will repeat a number of horrible apologetic explanations and all of them lead to unsatisfying answers. No, I've never met her and I don't know her. But I do know the force that has been feeding and shaping her thinking. You might want to save yourself some stress and avoid talking about religion with her. That is what I do with my mother. Whenever she brings up religion I say my code phrase "You wouldn't like that at all". Then I don't have to get into a huge argument with her about her crazy religion. It's not my job to try to deconvert her (which is impossible since we can only deconvert ourselves). As for your questions it's not just religions that are persecuted. Religion is one thing that divide people into groups but there are many other types of groups. And humans in different groups compete against each other. It doesn't make one group better than the next or their cause true. Historically Christians have done a lot of persecuting of other religions. If persecution of Christianity proves that Christianity is true then why would Christianity turn the tables and prove other religions are true? I agree. I do not discuss it with her, or anyone for that matter, except my husband who started this whole thing to begin with and believes the same way I do. These are things she said a few months back when I first let her know where I was heading in my "walk with the Lord". I have so many doubts and questions that I hope over time will disappear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricknlia Posted October 19, 2013 Author Share Posted October 19, 2013 She believes that the persecution of Christians throughout history is evidence of Satan trying to destroy God's people. But haven't all religions been persecuted at some point or another? What about in Pakistan and Bangladesh where hindus are seriously abused and also the opposite in highly hindu areas of india where muslims are abused? What about the torturing and killing of Buddhuists in vietnam yrs ago? I agree and it is frustrating that everything is only ever looked at from the side of the Christian believer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawn Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Here is my question: How can I be sure that my "falling away" isn't the fulfillment of the prophecy that in the last days there will be a great falling away and even the elect will be deceived? This thought keeps haunting me right now. Because, the "falling away" has been going on for two thousand years. What about Mark 13: 24-30? Jesus says that the generation he is speaking to, wil not pass away until the end of the world comes... but it never happened. 24 "But in those days, following that distress, " 'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light;25 the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.' [4] 26 "At that time men will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. 27 And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens. 28" Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 29 Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that it is near, right at the door. 30 I tell you the truth, this generation [5] will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. Um, HELLLOOOOOO JEBUS?! None of this shit ever happened, and that generation has been rotting in the grave for two thousand years....HURRY IT UP BRO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricknlia Posted October 19, 2013 Author Share Posted October 19, 2013 yes, pawn, that is a great argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Here is my question: How can I be sure that my "falling away" isn't the fulfillment of the prophecy that in the last days there will be a great falling away and even the elect will be deceived? This thought keeps haunting me right now. Christianity has a number of these fail safes, or cop outs if you will. They're highly effective if you don't question them. Another one is the old saw about how god makes the wise foolish and the children wise, thus making you question educated opinions. The only way out of these types of conundrums is through self study. They are just empty claims, but if you are still standing with one foot in the water, it's kind of hard to see it. Keep on studying and give yourself some perspective; you'll work it out. A good rule of thumb is to just withhold your beliefs until you have sufficient evidence to believe in something. Reset your beliefs to default. Empty claims are not good reasons to believe in things. I'm sure if you consider this statement you'll agree it's true. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slave2six Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Is the widespread hatred of Christianity evidence that it is "truth"? Does the fact that we abhor Casey Anthony mean she's actually innocent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 About that "hatred and persecution" claim... you may want to set mom's head straight a bit. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slave2six Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Is the widespread hatred of Christianity evidence that it is "truth"? To be honest, I don't think that anyone hates Christians more than other Christians do. You cannot hear any sermon on any given Sunday that won't include some version of why "our sect is right" and "those Christians over there are wrong" (idol worshippers, etc.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricknlia Posted October 19, 2013 Author Share Posted October 19, 2013 Here is my question: How can I be sure that my "falling away" isn't the fulfillment of the prophecy that in the last days there will be a great falling away and even the elect will be deceived? This thought keeps haunting me right now. Christianity has a number of these fail safes, or cop outs if you will. They're highly effective if you don't question them. Another one is the old saw about how god makes the wise foolish and the children wise, thus making you question educated opinions. The only way out of these types of conundrums is through self study. They are just empty claims, but if you are still standing with one foot in the water, it's kind of hard to see it. Keep on studying and give yourself some perspective; you'll work it out. A good rule of thumb is to just withhold your beliefs until you have sufficient evidence to believe in something. Reset your beliefs to default. Empty claims are not good reasons to believe in things. I'm sure if you consider this statement you'll agree it's true. I like that bit about resetting my beliefs and I think I have done just that, naturally, as a result of everything I have read and seen over the years. My husband first had doubts a few years ago and sunk into a very deep depression over it. I fought every inclination to question my faith, but recently decided if it is indeed truth and worth living and possibly one day dying for, it should be able to stand up to scrutiny and unfortunately, it did not. I have been saddened by this, but am learning to accept and embrace it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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