Why Such Bitterness?

[Guest sawitch]

I've been searching the net looking for views from people who are ex-christians because I'm not sure where I stand anymore. What I keep finding is that the views expressed are full of negative attitudes such as bitterness, sarcasm and are often downright insulting to anyone who dares to challenge. On the other hand most of the genuine christians I meet are welcoming, approachable and kind.

You're not doing yourselves any favours. I have issues with the validity of chritianity but would prefer a reasonable, civilised debate.

Any takers?

[No Heaven for Kevin]

I've been searching the net looking for views from people who are ex-christians because I'm not sure where I stand anymore. What I keep finding is that the views expressed are full of negative attitudes such as bitterness, sarcasm and are often downright insulting to anyone who dares to challenge. On the other hand most of the genuine christians I meet are welcoming, approachable and kind.

You're not doing yourselves any favours. I have issues with the validity of chritianity but would prefer a reasonable, civilised debate.

Any takers?

 

 

Sure, be happy to. I ,personally, believe in positive atheism, as nobody will make any progress by being a jerk.

 

First of all, you have to understand that (speaking for this website in particular) many people here are venting their frustrations and this is where they can find a compassionate ear. The only people I see get slammed here are those who come to cause trouble. For instance, I don't walk into my local Southern Baptist Church on Sunday and shout "There is no god and you people are idiots!", as I'm sure they would not invite me to the potluck dinner. There are many good people on this website, and most will be happy to chat with you on this subject.

 

Secondly, when I was a Christian, I felt intolerance and rejection (sometimes outright hate) from many of them, but it would be unfair for me to say they are all ignorant SOBs. So don't be too quick to lump everyone in the same pot.

 

Thirdly, welcome to eXc!

[Curtdude]

Hey, I'm a nice guy, too!

 

Welcome to the site. Hope you find some answers.

[Guest sawitch]

Hi

Thanks for the welcome.

I appreciate what you're saying about people venting their frustrations. I am finding it hard to be completely honest in my local church which is a source of angst.

I've been trying to question different issues but feel as though I'm undermining others beliefs which makes me feel bad. I'm nearly at the point of talking to the local minister and 'confessing' all, but there are lots of ramifications involved in that kind of decision.

The church has been part of my life forever, I'm now 50, and to quit would leave a big hole, but I can't go on pretending it's all OK when it's not or can I?

[Purple]

I've been searching the net looking for views from people who are ex-christians because I'm not sure where I stand anymore. What I keep finding is that the views expressed are full of negative attitudes such as bitterness, sarcasm and are often downright insulting to anyone who dares to challenge. On the other hand most of the genuine christians I meet are welcoming, approachable and kind.

You're not doing yourselves any favours. I have issues with the validity of chritianity but would prefer a reasonable, civilised debate.

Any takers?

 

 

Christian are often kind and welcoming for two reasons, they are commanded to, but beware that is often a mask. They are also trying to sell you something, when ou stop being an open minded seeker they will often turn on you. I know some are genuine, but you brought out the big broad brush when you said "What I keep finding is that the views expressed are full of negative attitudes such as bitterness, sarcasm and are often downright insulting to anyone who dares to challenge." This site is not a "non-Christian site, it is an Ex-christian site, there may be some reasons for the attitudes you see, when I first got out I was not bitter, I held nothing against Christianity and then, they turned on me and for what he did I hated my ex-pastor, with VERY good reason I might add. After that, the treatment I recived created some hurt anger and resentment in me, places like this give me and others a safe place to express that, and that is what you see. And a note here, I DID NOT LEAVE CHRISTIANTY BECAUSE "PEOPLE" HURT ME, AND THAT IS NOT WHAT I JUST SAID!

 

I do myself a lot of favors, I say what I actaully think, I am sarcastic, because I find sarcasim to be a hilarious art form, and not something to be avoided, or negitive. I am not nearly as bitter a I once was, and most people who know me would say I was down right sweet. I do not "insult" Christians just to insult them, some Christians I like and even love an awful lot. I will tell the truth though, and some sects of Christianity are evil vile orginasations that need to be torn down. If saying this turns you off :: shrug ::: too bad I am not going to lie or sugar coat.

 

This statement to me "You're not doing yourselves any favours." says to me you just don't get it. If you choose to leave Christianity you will do so alone, for your own reasons, some of us already out you may find are more than welcoming, but we are not called to help you, we have no mandate to "show you the way" Some here may want to show you another way, but for the most part if you have questions, ask them, read, look, serch for answers, but ultimately it is up to you what you believe.

[Fweethawt]

The church has been part of my life forever, I'm now 50, and to quit would leave a big hole, but I can't go on pretending it's all OK when it's not or can I?

Oooo! Somebody woke up! Cool!

 

I wouldn't go on pretending everything is okay. If you've been in the church for 50 years, you've already got plenty of practice doing that. Try something new.

 

Welcome to ExC.

 

Although I have my doubts due to prior experiences, at this point, it seems like you might be a pleasant addition to the community here. (you didn't make a really bad first impression is what I mean. )

 

Enjoy your stay.

[Curtdude]

....I've been trying to question different issues but feel as though I'm undermining others beliefs which makes me feel bad. I'm nearly at the point of talking to the local minister and 'confessing' all, but there are lots of ramifications involved in that kind of decision....

 

Hey sawitch,

 

You are absolutely right on to consider the ramifications of questioning the preacherdude. If you ask too many questions, they'll turn on you so fast it'll make your head spin. You know the answer he's gonna give you, anyways. Usually it involves "God's ways are not our ways" and crap like that. You've been around this a LONG time. You know the score.

 

And the feelings of guilt about "undermining others beliefs" is part of the cult mentality to silence you. The feelings of others mean more than your sincerity and honesty. More christian group mind control stuff.

 

Hey, I just read "Angela" ex-testimony and the whole issue of venting, anger and bittnerness is pretty well laid out. Check it out.

[Checkmate]

....................

I will tell the truth though, and some sects of Christianity are evil vile orginasations that need to be torn down. If saying this turns you off :: shrug ::: too bad I am not going to lie or sugar coat.

 

This statement to me "You're not doing yourselves any favours." says to me you just don't get it. If you choose to leave Christianity you will do so alone, for your own reasons, some of us already out you may find are more than welcoming, but we are not called to help you, we have no mandate to "show you the way" Some here may want to show you another way, but for the most part if you have questions, ask them, read, look, serch for answers, but ultimately it is up to you what you believe.

Well spoken, Ms. Purple. And I agree. This forum is not a medium for teaching people How To Leave Christianity. We're just people who have left Christianity (and some who have never been Xians) venting our spleens. Some of us are nice, some of us are not. Just as you get anywhere else in life. But I know for a fact that there are MANY people here who are willing to peacefully dialogue with anyone who is willing. Stop with the broad brush strokes, sawitch.

 

Also, I noted that you fear speaking openly to your Christian friends. Why is this? I thought you claimed that they were all so "nice" and loving, unlike the rest of us heathens? Is it possible that you suspect that their kindness is only conditional? A ruse? (You would be correct in this assessment.) Think about it.

 

That being said, welcome to the forums.

[white_raven23]

I can understand your confusion about many ex-c attitudes. Many of us had a really hard go of it. Religion is not something you simply decide to drop one day on a whim. Especially when everything in your life up to that point encourages you to believe it is the truth.

 

My deconversion was slow. Mine took several years before I reached a point where I actually had to ask myself what my beliefs really were, and did they fit with the religion I'd been raised in. After that, I felt a little off-center. You feel that way when you realize you are suddenly out of step with what feels like the whole world.

 

When you realize you are out of step, you have two choices. One: try to get back in step (what most people do), or Two: see if you can walk another way, or try to figure out what the best step really is.

A lot of research comes in here. It takes a lot of research to change your whole mindset. So when a christian walks into our forum and orders us to get right with Da Lawd without bothering to understand our viewpoints at all. They are basically insulting our years of research, and the knowledge we've acheived. So we get a bit pissed.

 

Wouldn't you, if you'd been working on a painting for the past five years, and once you'd finished and put it on display, someone walks up to it with a brushfull of yellow paint, saying it could use a few touches? And they start gettin that brush close to your work intending to "improve" it themselves?

 

TELL me you wouldn't get pissed if that happened!

 

As much as I hate labels, they do make social exchanges much more brief and to the point. You don't have to stand there for 20 minutes explaining what you do and don't believe in. At the time I made the realization, there were only three labels I knew of. The religious label, which didn't fit, the atheist label, which didn't fit, and the agnostic label, which fit okay, but not really sufficently.

 

For me the Deist label fits best.

 

Welcome to our Forum!

[☆ TexasFreethinker ☆]

Welcome Sawitch.

 

One thing I like about this site is that people feel free to express exactly what they are feeling. There's no pressure to "act nice" just to keep up a front. I was a Southern Baptist for nearly 40 years and there was always pressure to act nice since that's what god would want. It's liberating to know that in this place I can share my true emotions, whatever they may be.

 

That said, most people here are very polite and willing to engage in civil dialog as long as that's what they are getting from the other parties involved. The times I've seen anger or sarcasm pointed toward our christian visitors has been when the christians begin a thread in that tone or come in with self-righteous guns a-blazing. Intellectually, we know that such people are generally this way because they are scared or doubting, but it's still hard not to respond to insult with insult. After all, we're just humans.

 

Some people here are very angry at christianity as a whole - many feel they've been deceived or harmed by their involvement in it. Some of us, myself included, aren't angry at all christians, but do have some that we feel are evil. Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, James Dobson are all on my list. I'm angry with them for the way they try to force their religious beliefs on others, and I'm not ashamed to admit it. I think they must be confronted and challenged every time they attempt to restrict my freedoms in the name of their god.

 

Sorry for such a long welcome post - I hope you enjoy your visits to this site and that we're able to learn something from each other.

[Ouroboros]

I've been searching the net looking for views from people who are ex-christians because I'm not sure where I stand anymore. What I keep finding is that the views expressed are full of negative attitudes such as bitterness, sarcasm and are often downright insulting to anyone who dares to challenge. On the other hand most of the genuine christians I meet are welcoming, approachable and kind.

You're not doing yourselves any favours. I have issues with the validity of chritianity but would prefer a reasonable, civilised debate.

Any takers?

Yes, you'll see a lot of rants and strong emotions on this site. People that recently have freed themselves from the bondage of the Christian religion need a place where they can go and let the pressure out.

 

We have a couple of Christians on this site that we have civilized and good debates with, and that's because they show good attitude and use their brains in the debate. On the other hand we also have some hard-core fundamentalists that refuse to turn on the powerswitch for their gray cells, even for a second, and with them, it's close to impossible to make them see how illogical and irrational their ideas are, that's when the temperature rise.

 

Personally, my experience is that I've found good and bad people in all categories. Christians, Muslim, Jews, Atheists, you name it. People are people. But I have found more straightforward and open conversation with people that are somewhat skeptic towards faith systems. And I prefer honest people before delusional.

 

One thing that happens when you lose your faith is that people (Christians) can't understand you, and start hurting you. For instance you get accused of have never been a good or true Christian, even though you spend your whole life trying your best of finding the right formula for being the real thing. It hurts, and it's offensive, but they can't see it.

 

It is very emotional and a touchy subject, and that's why we have this website, so apostates/deconverts can let the steam out and figure things out.

 

Anyway, welcome Sawitch!

[Aqua Kitty]

I've been searching the net looking for views from people who are ex-christians because I'm not sure where I stand anymore. What I keep finding is that the views expressed are full of negative attitudes such as bitterness, sarcasm and are often downright insulting to anyone who dares to challenge.

 

Negative attitudes? Bitterness and sarcasm? Stop and think for a moment.

 

There was a point in my life when I finally had to admit to myself that Christianity, Jesus, God, the whole deal was a big fat lie. Everything I had ever believed in and held dear was gone. I had believed in a lie with all my heart, and had nothing to fill the void. And because Christianity is such a huge part of our culture, I had been lied to by almost everyone I knew. Why exactly shouldn't I have felt bitter? Bitterness and sarcasm are just ways of coping, and they eventually pass. I don't feel bitter any more because I've grown past that phase. But it wasn't easy, and everyone deals with the transition in their own way. I honestly think I'm happier now than I've ever been in my life.

 

And welcome! Hope you find what you're looking for.

[Seabiscuit]

Its funny you should find this board negative. I've met a ton of great people who have shown me compassion as I detangle myself from what's left of my christainity.

 

You know my entire upbringing was about attitude. I remember my parents telling me that a bad attitutde was worst then actually doing a sinful deed. It is a breath of fresh air to really think about what I'm feeling and thinking. I MEAN REALLY think! For years, I had whatever attitude--positive attitude was the only one that was acceptable--for everyone one else and I could never figure out how I really felt.

 

Are you sure you aren't confusing folks being real and the 'ol christian beliefs of pretending?

 

I've been through some horrible stuff all in the name of god. I've pretended myself into serious health issues. You can go to my profile and testimony to read about how GOOD I was at pretending.

 

My life has become much more postive ever since I put away my "cheerful, obedient shell" and became a real human being. It takes real guts and courage to be honest about the icky stuff inside. Truth is, there is no "bible god" to "wash it all away"--that's a fairy tale IMHO.

 

I'm here and I've developed a network of support outside this board because I'm dealing with the icky, negative stuff no matter what. As one very kind individual stated, "this is my life!" I'm living right now with whatever is in front of me.

 

I'd be supportive of you negative or positive--just the way you are. Welcome, I hope you find it as helpful as I have!

[BlueGiant]

Greetings and salutations.

 

If you are questioning, then here, well, you'll at least see a variety of reasons why people left the fold. As for the anger, sarcasm, etc that you will probably see towards most of our old religion, well, most feel burned that they were "suckered" into something that was a big in our life. Also, it cost some dearly when they left, suddenly finding out who their friends actually were. We all have our reasons to be here.

 

If you think 'net christians are welcoming, try publicly expressing your doubts. There is good and bad in every community.

 

So, out of curiosity, what is causing you to question? If you have any questions for us, we'll be happy to answer them honestly.

[Cat]

Hi

Thanks for the welcome.

I appreciate what you're saying about people venting their frustrations. I am finding it hard to be completely honest in my local church which is a source of angst.

I've been trying to question different issues but feel as though I'm undermining others beliefs which makes me feel bad. I'm nearly at the point of talking to the local minister and 'confessing' all, but there are lots of ramifications involved in that kind of decision.

The church has been part of my life forever, I'm now 50, and to quit would leave a big hole, but I can't go on pretending it's all OK when it's not or can I?

Hi!

I know what you mean about the undermining thing- I used to feel I was "contaminating" them by even thinking the things I was and as a consequence never talked to anyone in church until after I deconverted- when I just told people. And I was 46 (2 months ago.) I have got a very big hole left, but to pretend was not possible. I'm hoping eventually the hole will close off- but I couldn't keep believing in something that I just didn't see as true.

I still haven't talked to my minister (I chickened out and just stopped going.)

It's not compulsory to do so...

Good luck, anyway, whatever you do.

Cat

[MrSpooky]

I've been trying to question different issues but feel as though I'm undermining others beliefs which makes me feel bad.

 

Nice to meet you, Sawich. Don't feel bad about questioning things (as long as you ask questions with the honest intent to learn more). It helps clear out doubts on some issues, and demonstrate when people are wrong on others.

 

 

The church has been part of my life forever, I'm now 50, and to quit would leave a big hole, but I can't go on pretending it's all OK when it's not or can I?

 

I think everyone has a right to believe what they want to make them happy, even if it's a delusion of sorts. What isn't right is to express your delusions as objective in some way.

[Dianka]

Well, I'll tell you why I'm bitter. It's not God that pisses me off - I don't believe in God. It's the people that do believe in God that have made me bitter. Your experience with Christians has been quite different than mine. Instead of being an inclusive people who are there for their "brothers and sisters" in times of need, the Christians I've known only come down from their pedestals long enough to gossip about people they should be helping. "Did you hear about so and so's little drinking problem?" or "I just found out this person is gay" was the usual banter around church. What good Christian would not give their kids hell or kick them out of the house if they were ever found to be gay?

 

Oh and Catholic school, don't get me started. Did the spirit tell the cunt nuns to verbally abuse school children, or were they just being cold-hearted bitches? My third grade teacher told us her heart-warming story of when she decided to become a nun. Well, when her kids were right around our ages at the time, she decided to leave home to answer God's call. She abandoned her family to become a nun, how great for her! I was scared that my mother may do the same after I heard that. In fact that one nun was probably the root cause for my distaste in religion.

 

So yeah, I'm bitter. I'm also not interested in selling anyone anything, no need to slap on the happy face.

[Mythra]

You're not doing yourselves any favours. I have issues with the validity of chritianity but would prefer a reasonable, civilised debate.Any takers?

 

You'll find plenty of civilised debate here. Unless you take a condescending tone and treat us like we're backwoods hicks who've never heard the gospel before.

 

Religion seriously messed with my life for 25 years. I've got a right to be bitter.

 

And, what do you mean, "you're not doing yourselves any favors?" We don't get any extra points for gaining converts. Believe in Jesus or don't. Doesn't mean a damn thing to me one way or the other.

 

If you like hanging out with christians, go for it. If you are beginning to find personal disillusionment with the religion, we welcome you here to learn and share your POV.

 

To each his own.

[LloydDobler]

The first thought that came to my mind was "Who are you to dictate the 'proper' way for us to think, feel, and behave?"

 

Like Mythra said, we're not trying to win de-converts or push an agenda here, so I don't know what 'favors' you think we're not doing ourselves. We're not witnesses to a cause. We're a group with something in common. Almost every person here found this site AFTER leaving religion. If we turn people away from apostacy and they remain enslaved to their god, so be it. It doesn't affect us here in any way at all.

 

Civilised debate is welcomed and encouraged here, and if that's what you're looking for, ask for it. If you're looking for people who aren't pissed off about the large amounts of their lives that were wasted on fairy tales... you've got the wrong website.

[SkepticOfBible]

Hi

Thanks for the welcome.

I appreciate what you're saying about people venting their frustrations. I am finding it hard to be completely honest in my local church which is a source of angst.

I've been trying to question different issues but feel as though I'm undermining others beliefs which makes me feel bad. I'm nearly at the point of talking to the local minister and 'confessing' all, but there are lots of ramifications involved in that kind of decision.

The church has been part of my life forever, I'm now 50, and to quit would leave a big hole, but I can't go on pretending it's all OK when it's not or can I?

 

if want polite debates, there is a colloseum section there. Personal attacks are foribidden.

This section is for more serious debate with Christians. Although this section is not as formal as "The Arena," all posts should remain "on topic" at all times.

 

If a topic degenerates and wanders away from the topic, as frequently happens when people disagree, the entire topic may be moved to "The Lion's Den," closed, or deleted altogether. Offending posters may even receive warnings.

 

The point of this section is for those members who would like to see and participate in informal, yet serious, debate.

 

feel free to jump in on any topic that you might find interesting. I usually try to be as polite as possible

[Anakin]

I've been searching the net looking for views from people who are ex-christians because I'm not sure where I stand anymore. What I keep finding is that the views expressed are full of negative attitudes such as bitterness, sarcasm and are often downright insulting to anyone who dares to challenge. On the other hand most of the genuine christians I meet are welcoming, approachable and kind.

You're not doing yourselves any favours. I have issues with the validity of chritianity but would prefer a reasonable, civilised debate.

Any takers?

I new here also, but I never saw the sarcasm as anything but humor. Tongue-in-cheek.

I consider myself to be sarcastic but it's just an attempt at a humorous vent.

Christianity took such a chunk out of my life that I've got to laugh and have some fun with

it or it will drive me insane. Yes, I am somewhat bitter also, but I'll get over it.

I haven't read any post yet of the "bitter" / "insulting" type that wasn't justified. I think

people here are civil untill provoked. But isn't that just a natural human response?

[Asimov]

I've been searching the net looking for views from people who are ex-christians because I'm not sure where I stand anymore. What I keep finding is that the views expressed are full of negative attitudes such as bitterness, sarcasm and are often downright insulting to anyone who dares to challenge. On the other hand most of the genuine christians I meet are welcoming, approachable and kind.

You're not doing yourselves any favours. I have issues with the validity of chritianity but would prefer a reasonable, civilised debate.

Any takers?

 

Debate about what?

[I Broke Free]

Yea, Genuine Christians™ always take the high-road. When they are losing a debate they just resort to telling us we are going to hell; no bitterness there?

 

And common! I can’t go a day without being sarcastic about Christianity. Anything that deliberately makes themselves that big of a target is just asking for it. Do you expect me to keep a straight face when someone tells me that humans walked with dinosaurs, the universe is 6,000 years old, a flood covered the entire Earth, and the creator of the universe requires blood sacrifices? Get real!

 

IBF

[Guest sawitch]

So, out of curiosity, what is causing you to question? If you have any questions for us, we'll be happy to answer them honestly

 

I'm questioning because I've allowed myself to really think things through for the first time. I've always been scared to do so before. I guess I knew what might happen and I just wasn't strong enough to face it.

The trigger for all of this was attitudes towards my parents deaths. Dad was a dyed in the wool ex-catholic atheist, Mum was a christian. When Dad died there was sympathy and a careful avoidance of any mention of an afterlife, but when Mum died lots of rejoicing about her being in heaven now etc. I got to wonder how a supposedly loving God could condemn anybody non-christian to 'hell'. Sure my dad had his faults, but no more than mum.

 

Since then the questions have come thick and fast, one leading to another. So I used 'ex-christian' as a search and came up with this site amongst others. I'm still a long way from deconverting, just have lots of questions and looking for answers.

 

Sorry to those people who have thought me judgemental and patronising. I didn't mean to come across like that. My experience of church hasn't been bad but reading through some of the posts I realise that lots of you have cause to be angry.

[Pariah]

Welcome sawitch. It must have sucked to believe that your dad was in hell, I can't imagine thinking that.