BlindReason Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 And be sure to watch that documentary Margee posted. Maybe that special interest in religion that you seem to have will morph into something useful, like debunking nonsense. But until then there are plenty of real, interesting things to learn about. Also, I can't recommend physical activity enough. Vigorous exercise always helps me deal with anxiety and it doesn't really matter what the anxiety is about. The fear of Hell doesn't have any special powers other fears don't have. There is no such thing as feeling fear in your spirit. It's all chemicals and subject to treatment through exercise and rewiring your brain. You can do that. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkepticalDaniel Posted May 16, 2016 Author Share Posted May 16, 2016 And be sure to watch that documentary Margee posted. Maybe that special interest in religion that you seem to have will morph into something useful, like debunking nonsense. But until then there are plenty of real, interesting things to learn about. Also, I can't recommend physical activity enough. Vigorous exercise always helps me deal with anxiety and it doesn't really matter what the anxiety is about. The fear of Hell doesn't have any special powers other fears don't have. There is no such thing as feeling fear in your spirit. It's all chemicals and subject to treatment through exercise and rewiring your brain. You can do that. I'll check it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjn Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 Hi Daniel, I'm also an Aspie. I understand the anxiety and the uncontrolable endless thought loops. Our brains seem to be wired to do fear better than any other emotion. You're probably experiencing the worst feeling imaginable. I went through my fear of Hell about a year ago, after I'd already realized I couldn't believe in God anymore. Funny how that works, isn't it? You will come out the other side, just like I did. You know intellectually that Hell can't be real. It will take some time for the nonrational parts of your brain to catch up. They exist to alert you to threats to your survival. Eventually they will shut off because there is no threat. THIS WILL END, I can guarantee it. I'm angry that you're having to experience this unnecessary fear. Interesting. I associate intrusive thoughts and thought loops with my OCD, and the thought that Aspergers could have similar symptoms never struck me. I did get a fairly high "score" on Aspergers when I went through psychiatric evaluation a few years ago, but I was never diagnosed with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkepticalDaniel Posted May 16, 2016 Author Share Posted May 16, 2016 Hi Daniel, I'm also an Aspie. I understand the anxiety and the uncontrolable endless thought loops. Our brains seem to be wired to do fear better than any other emotion. You're probably experiencing the worst feeling imaginable. I went through my fear of Hell about a year ago, after I'd already realized I couldn't believe in God anymore. Funny how that works, isn't it? You will come out the other side, just like I did. You know intellectually that Hell can't be real. It will take some time for the nonrational parts of your brain to catch up. They exist to alert you to threats to your survival. Eventually they will shut off because there is no threat. THIS WILL END, I can guarantee it. I'm angry that you're having to experience this unnecessary fear. Thank you for the empathy. I absolutely hate feeling this way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjn Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 Ask yourself this: if only "true" Christians (whatever that means) get "saved", does God really triumph in the end? By the sound of most evangelicals, it's not even guaranteed that most Christians will be saved, on the contrary, most Christians (everyone they do not agree with, more or less) are doomed as well. Add to that the BILLIONS of people that never even heard of Jesus, or simply grew up with a different faith because of reasons like demographics, geography and so on. So, God is going to let the vast majority (Most people throughout history have not been Christian, and definitely not Fundamentalist Christian so we're probably talking about +90%, if not more) of his creation burn FOREVER? How is that a testament to the wisdom, love and glory of God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 what's just hard for me is when I do it, I think about what the Christian sites say and how the use history to prove it as well.SD., have you had a chance to watch the documentary I left on page 2-post 34? It's very interesting because it will give you a great idea on how the earth got formed in the first place. Once you learn a little about evolution, the fear will start to fall away. (hug) No, I haven't seen the documentary yet. But I will check it out. By the way, thank you for the hug. You have no idea how much pain this idea has brought me. Many of us do have an idea how much pain this brings and we empathize. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkepticalDaniel Posted May 17, 2016 Author Share Posted May 17, 2016 what's just hard for me is when I do it, I think about what the Christian sites say and how the use history to prove it as well.SD., have you had a chance to watch the documentary I left on page 2-post 34? It's very interesting because it will give you a great idea on how the earth got formed in the first place. Once you learn a little about evolution, the fear will start to fall away. (hug) No, I haven't seen the documentary yet. But I will check it out. By the way, thank you for the hug. You have no idea how much pain this idea has brought me. Many of us do have an idea how much pain this brings and we empathize. Thank you for the understanding. It's really hard to break free from it. There is a quote, however, that has helped me: "The idea of hell was born of ignorance, brutality, fear cowardice, and revenge. This idea testifies that our remote ancestors were the lowest beasts. Only from dens, lairs, and caves, only from mouths filled with cruel fangs, only from hearts of fear and hatred, only from the conscience of hunger and lust, only from the lowest and most debased could come this cruel, heartless and bestial of all dogmas." – Robert G. Ingersoll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Skepticaldaniel: I remember the paralyzing fear of hell. I used to literally weep over my brother's lost soul, my grandparents' atheistic beliefs, and for all the non-Christian boys I wanted to date. I truly feared hell for everyone, though. Now, it is the opposite, but I still fear hell for myself. Is your fear still for other people, or is it for yourself? (In reading the comments I can't tell if it's both or just one) For other people, it was helpful for me to remember that I am not responsible for them. Christianity made me responsible to save their souls, but no one has such power. If you can obliterate your belief in hell, however, these other beliefs of responsibility and such will probably also fade. i think it starts with Bible God. If Bible God doesnt exist, then hell doesnt. As many have suggested, do a lot of reading! I just enrolled in an astronomy class after deciding to go back to school. I want to see the world through an authentic lens, rather than with a creator in mind; I want to obliterate Bible God's presence in my daily life. I suggest you read as much as you can, starting with favorites such as Richard Dawkins' The God Delusion, and A Manual for Creating Atheists. Along with this, start to notice the world around you. Christianity forces us to focus on the big, scary afterlife. Focus on the present. Appreciate a leaf on a tree for what it is. God didn't create it. It's just there, being a leaf. I've found this silly exercise to be really helpful to both ground me and remind me that life is more beautiful without a God or a hell. Without a God, it is much easier to not believe in hell. And when there is no God and no hell, you can be you, and everyone else can be themselves as well. No fiery chasms. Just leaves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Along with this, start to notice the world around you. Christianity forces us to focus on the big, scary afterlife. Focus on the present. Appreciate a leaf on a tree for what it is. God didn't create it. It's just there, being a leaf. I've found this silly exercise to be really helpful to both ground me and remind me that life is more beautiful without a God or a hell. Without a God, it is much easier to not believe in hell. And when there is no God and no hell, you can be you, and everyone else can be themselves as well. No fiery chasms. Just leaves Coming out of this fear, growing out of it took me 10 long years. I'm a slow learner though and the internet didn't exist then, hence no support. I've seen members of ex-c, making the effort, grow out of it naturally in around 1 to 3 years. Abijah is right. All things meet at the present. It's a crux we observe. Difficult to grasp or hold onto sometimes which is why so many meditation practices focus on it. It's an important thing in our earthly existence, the present. I'm with the others here about your dwelling on these websites you talk about. Florduh's analogy is perfect, going to the bar. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedah Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 If there is a god, it is far more likely that believing in hell just because you think you will go there if you don't... probably will not turn out so well. Funny thing about bogus arguments like Pascals wager, they tend to be reversible and make just as much if not more sense. http://infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/heaven.html The End of Pascal's Wager: Only Nontheists Go to Heaven The following argument could be taken as tongue-in-cheek, if it didn't seem so evidently true. At any rate, to escape the logic of it requires theists to commit to abandoning several of their cherished assumptions about God or Heaven. And no matter what, it presents a successful rebuttal to any form of Pascal's Wager, by demonstrating that unbelief might still be the safest bet after all (since we do not know whose assumptions are correct, and we therefore cannot exclude the assumptions on which this argument is based). Argument 1: Who Goes to Heaven? It is a common belief that only the morally good should populate heaven, and this is a reasonable belief, widely defended by theists of many varieties. Suppose there is a god who is watching us and choosing which souls of the deceased to bring to heaven, and this god really does want only the morally good to populate heaven. He will probably select from only those who made a significant and responsible effort to discover the truth. For all others are untrustworthy, being cognitively or morally inferior, or both. They will also be less likely ever to discover and commit to true beliefs about right and wrong. That is, if they have a significant and trustworthy concern for doing right and avoiding wrong, it follows necessarily that they must have a significant and trustworthy concern for knowing right and wrong. Since this knowledge requires knowledge about many fundamental facts of the universe (such as whether there is a god), it follows necessarily that such people must have a significant and trustworthy concern for always seeking out, testing, and confirming that their beliefs about such things are probably correct. Therefore, only such people can be sufficiently moral and trustworthy to deserve a place in heaven--unless god wishes to fill heaven with the morally lazy, irresponsible, or untrustworthy. But only two groups fit this description: intellectually committed but critical theists, and intellectually committed but critical nontheists (which means both atheists and agnostics, though more specifically secular humanists, in the most basic sense). Both groups have a significant and trustworthy concern for always seeking out, testing, and confirming that their beliefs about god (for example) are probably correct, so that their beliefs about right and wrong will probably be correct. No other groups can claim this. If anyone is sincerely interested in doing right and avoiding wrong, they must be sincerely interested in whether certain claims are true, including "God exists," and must treat this matter with as much responsibility and concern as any other moral question. And the only two kinds of people who do this are those theists and nontheists who devote their lives to examining the facts and determining whether they are right. ( More in link ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Leah Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 I got over my fear by submitting my life to Jesus Christ. When I was following him, the fear was absent. As I strayed, the fear would always come back. Ever since my faith has been wiped out though, I have lost all fear of hell. Perhaps your fear is telling you something. Personally, I take the Satanist viewpoint to follow your instinct, but in the end it is your choice and life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkepticalDaniel Posted May 27, 2016 Author Share Posted May 27, 2016 I got over my fear by submitting my life to Jesus Christ. When I was following him, the fear was absent. As I strayed, the fear would always come back. Ever since my faith has been wiped out though, I have lost all fear of hell. Perhaps your fear is telling you something. Personally, I take the Satanist viewpoint to follow your instinct, but in the end it is your choice and life. I just can't do that. I tried Satanism for a while, but it just didn't seem like my thing, because it's very self-centered. I'm not a self-centered person, not at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quinntar Posted May 27, 2016 Share Posted May 27, 2016 I was an IFB (Independent Fundamental Baptist) for a very long time, and it was really pounded into my head that hell was at the center of the earth beneath the ground. I've since then gotten away from the IFB church, but the fear of hell just keeps coming back and coming back. To give you an example of what I was taught, just look at the link here: http://www.av1611.org/hell.html How can I counter these fears? Does anyone have any suggestions? Try and understand what is happening to you right now, because you fear it won't make you love Jesus honestly. There is no fear in love, not one drop. Study the mechanism that causes fear, fear is supposed to protect you when you're faced with a unknown situation. (A danger warning) Like driving over a damaged bridge or riding on a faulty lift. Hell is the danger zone and heaven is on the other side where it's safe. It's a mental concept that trips the chemical that causes fear. Makes you your worst enemy until you go back to the safety zone. Praise Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quinntar Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 I was an IFB (Independent Fundamental Baptist) for a very long time, and it was really pounded into my head that hell was at the center of the earth beneath the ground. I've since then gotten away from the IFB church, but the fear of hell just keeps coming back and coming back. To give you an example of what I was taught, just look at the link here: http://www.av1611.org/hell.html How can I counter these fears? Does anyone have any suggestions? Try and understand what is happening to you right now, because you fear it won't make you love Jesus honestly. There is no fear in love, not one drop. Study the mechanism that causes fear, fear is supposed to protect you when you're faced with a unknown situation. (A danger warning) Like driving over a damaged bridge or riding on a faulty lift. Hell is the danger zone and heaven is on the other side where it's safe. It's a mental concept that trips the chemical that causes fear. Makes you your worst enemy until you go back to the safety zone. Praise Jesus. No, praise Jesus is absolutely 100% sarcastic. Read above, I'm sure you get that. Praise Satan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice Posted May 29, 2016 Share Posted May 29, 2016 SD, has any of our advice helped so far? Given you any tools to work with? If so, which has helped the most? We're with you man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 A must see article, a bishop discussing why the church invented hell. He's right on. https://www.facebook.com/AwarenessAct/videos/1321301857884348/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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