Who's Our Creater?

[Friendly neighborhood atheist]

Well, fuck you too Wolfheart. Nice to get to know the real you.

 

Not one word of it changes the fact that nothing can be proven to have always existed, and hence everything must have an origin.

This is an argument from the negative.

The fact that nothing can be proven to have always existed does not mean something hasn't.

Your conclusion that everything must have an origin may or may not be correct, but it can NOT be drawn from your stated negative. The abscence of evidence is not evidence to the contrary.

You ought to know that.

 

The only bullshit here is listening to yet another fundy who just can't get over the fact that someone doesn't believe as he does.

You call me a fundamentalist, and then accuse me of having beliefs.

Wrong on both counts. I see you are unfamiliar with the term "atheist"?

 

Pull your head out of your fucking ass and don't ever pretend you know a thing about what I believe, because I assure you, you don't.

More insults and hostility ... hmmmm, more getting to know the real you. Thanks for the info.

I don't know any more about what you believe than what you've posted here, your own words.

That's what I responded to. If you can't reply without acting like an adolescent, what chance do you think ANYONE has of "understanding" whatever it is that you think you believe?

 

What I don't get is why some Atheists just have to act like Xians, ie, have to assume that because someone posits there is or was a Creator of some kind that person is a borderline or closet Xian.

No, what you don't understand is that is someone proposes a creator, one must back that up without something more than "because I said so" or "because I feel it, I know it, but i can't explain why". (i.e. "Faith". See Rants and replies for a good thread on the subject.

 

I might as well try explaining myself to a Babble thumper - I'd get the same lame attempts to convert me to a religion I am not interested in.

You're already having me repeat myself, ah the mark of a master debator.

I see you are unfamiliar with the term "atheist"?

Atheism is not a religion, nor is it a set of beliefs based on faith of any kind.

If you reject that statement, we're quite done here.

 

So, I believe there is or was a Creator? Big whoop, does that somehow threaten you?

It threatens reason and rationality, and I am taking the position to defend them.

 

If just the fact that someone else believes differently than you is more than you can stand, you're on the wrong board and are better off elsewhere.

Sorry, but I'll have to decline your invitation to leave.

Looks like you're going to have to put up with me for a while longer yet.

Or, you can just ignore me. So far, you're motivating me very nicely to not put much stock in your input here.

 

The only one who's half a step away from sounding like a Xian is you, buddy.

Are you so immature that you'd reduce this to an "IS NOT!" vs. "IS TOO" shouting match?

I'm not your buddy. I was open to the idea, but you've just made about as bad an impression on me as possible with words on a screen. You're a jerk today. I don't like jerks. I hope there's more to you than this.

 

... try showing some respect and keep your opinions to yourself unless asked for them.

 

Hilarious!! YOU lecturing ME on showing a fellow board member "respect"??

I see you are not familiar with the term "hypocrite"?

As for the meat of your comment above, again sorry, but are you the board administrator?

It's a public forum wolfy, if you don't like what I have to say, follow your own advice and show some respect, and you might get a respectful, thoughtful reply.

If you were reading the exchanges between myself and NotBlindedByTheLight, you'll see that being "right" isn't nearly as important to me as understanding and critiquing what I read here, contributing, and some of the personal interaction. With yourself and the Christian troll being the only two exceptions so far.

 

So, you either owe me a big wet sloppy apology,

or a lot of people just saw you for what you are,

if you're satisfied with that, then good for you!

Bye now. FNA

[Friendly neighborhood atheist]

Open_Minded:

 

I just read your post after reading the rather unfriendly post by Wolfheart.

I very much liked what you said, and believe it or not I understand fully!

Experience combined with perception makes reality what it is to each of us capable of describing it in any way.

 

I also agree, and have said before, that is if there is a god (and I do not see any evidence to suggest there is), such an entity must be a natural occurrance within this universe, and can not be separate and apart from it - anything that exists, even if it were Jesus Christ as described by the most hardened christian, is part of the universe, since the universe is the set of all things and not a system or subset within it. As PART of the universe, the functionality of a god would have to be redefined to make sense, and it could not be the christian/ hebrew / islamic god.

(At least not as advertised, but the differences would constitute an entirely different religion from the aforementioned three).

 

About your brother the scientist!! I love this part!

One of my brothers is a scientist. He is a wonderful man and a fantastic brother. But, he is very concrete, extemely concrete. He has difficulty with unfinished puzzles.

 

Now, I on the other hand, love unfinished puzzles. My brother the scientist - wants to go find all the puzzle pieces and fit them all nicely together (and the world is a better place for his demand that the answers be found). I on the other hand accept that all the puzzle pieces will NEVER be known.

 

I'm with you on enjoying unfinished puzzles. As you get to know me you'll pick on the aspect of me that is a lateral thinker, an "outside the box" kinda guy. But I'd like to paint an analogy for you using the puzzle model. Imagine we don't know how many pieces the puzzle has, nor what the image (picture) is once the entire puzzle is put together will be.

Using scientific methodology, NOT religion, assumption or faith, humankind has been probing at the natural world around him, seeking pieces of the puzzle, and putting them in the right place in the puzzle.

 

Ever work on a BIG puzzle? 5000 pieces or more?

What's the first four pieces you look for? The corners.

The cornerstones of the final picture.

They provide important clues. Now what do we look for? The edges. We're building a framework.

Now, working in the middle is tricky. But all of a sudden we find a few pieces that begin to take shape, and we now can see that an image of a giraffe is forming in the middle of the puzzle.

We start looking for more giraffe pieces, because we have a working theory that there is a giraffe in this puzzle - so we make the prediction (using that theory) there there are more giraffe pieces.

 

This is the important part: NONE of the pieces we find are going to turn that giraffe into an elephant.

Oh, there might very well BE an elephant in the picture, somewhere, but we haven't found any evidence to suggest that yet. But we DO know there's a giraffe in here, and we're looking for the rest of it before proceeding to the next clear form in this puzzle.

 

Does that makes sense to you? (I hope)?

 

PS - NotBlindedByTheLight, I'm glad Wolfheart came along,

because if nothing else he reminded me how respectful and cool you really are,

even in disagreement with me.

 

-FNA

[NotBlinded]

A Christian troll, Greg? I've looked back through this forum and I cannot see where a christian troll has even stepped in here. I hope above all hopes that you are not referring to O_M. I would then have to open up the biggest can of whoop ass I could find. O_M is a respected member here and many of us spiritual, atheistic, Diestic people will be quick to defend her.

 

Okay...nevermind, I see you weren't talking about her. I was about to let loose my respect!

[Lycorth]

Well, fuck you too. Nice to get to know the real you.

 

 

You don't know the real me, dope. Don't try using amateur psychology and think that because you got someone mad, you all of a sudden know the "real" him. Pull your head out of your ass.

 

Not one word of it changes the fact that nothing can be proven to have always existed, and hence everything must have an origin.

This is an argument from the negative.

The fact that nothing can be proven to have always existed does not mean something hasn't.

Your conclusion that everything must have an origin may or may not be correct, but it can NOT be drawn from your stated negative. The abscence of evidence is not evidence to the contrary.

You ought to know that.

 

You mean like the absence of evidence for a Creator (aside from the universe, since many see that as evidence of a creator) does not mean there is no Creator? Try using your own logic sometime.

 

You call me a fundamentalist, and then accuse me of having beliefs.

Wrong on both counts. I see you are unfamiliar with the term "atheist"?

 

No, I'm perfectly familiar with what an Atheist is, thank you. And yes, you're acting like a fundy - you don't need a religion to be a fundy, all you need to do is be condescending to the views of others based on your arrogant assertion that you are correct no matter what, using the fundamentals of your beliefs as your basis. So, rather I am right on both counts, and you just can't take it.

 

More insults and hostility ... hmmmm, more getting to know the real you. Thanks for the info.

I don't know any more about what you believe than what you've posted here, your own words.

That's what I responded to. If you can't reply without acting like an adolescent, what chance do you think ANYONE has of "understanding" whatever it is that you think you believe?

 

No, just getting to know the pissed-off me. And accusing me of acting like an adolescent is only indicative of your own childish need to belittle those who don't agree with you. Whine, whine, whine.

 

No, what you don't understand is that is someone proposes a creator, one must back that up without something more than "because I said so" or "because I feel it, I know it, but i can't explain why". (i.e. "Faith". See Rants and replies for a good thread on the subject.

 

I already did back up my proposal of a Creator. I cited the existence of the universe and the fact that all things must have origins as my reasons why. I did not propose there was a Creator and say "because I said so" to back it up. So where are you getting that from?

 

You're already having me repeat myself, ah the mark of a master debator.

I see you are unfamiliar with the term "atheist"?

Atheism is not a religion, nor is it a set of beliefs based on faith of any kind.

If you reject that statement, we're quite done here.

 

My pardon, "religious philosophy" - that's how I usually classify Atheism, as well as Deism and Agnosticism. But you are again behaving like a snide little twerp, and again assuming that I don't know what I'm talking about just because I happen to disagree with you. Oh, boo hoo .

It threatens reason and rationality, and I am taking the position to defend them.

 

How does the assertion that a Creator exists or has existed threaten reason or rationality? Unless one uses such a belief or assertion to create a cult full of inane beliefs, then I don't see the threat it could pose. You are just afraid of anyone believing in something other than Atheism, and need to get over your insecurity.

 

Looks like you're going to have to put up with me for a while longer yet.

Or, you can just ignore me. So far, you're motivating me very nicely to not put much stock in your input here.

 

Because I wiped my ass with your arrogant assumptions about me and basically told you where to shove it? I could care less where you go, tough guy, just don't go parading your arrogance in my face or it will get shoved back in yours - again.

 

Are you so immature that you'd reduce this to an "IS NOT!" vs. "IS TOO" shouting match?

I'm not your buddy. I was open to the idea, but you've just made about as bad an impression on me as possible with words on a screen. You're a jerk today. I don't like jerks. I hope there's more to you than this.

 

Accusing me of immaturity is the mark of an insecure person. I merely pointed out something that cast you unfavorably, and you don't like it. Too bad, deal with the fact you got called on the carpet, bigshot. And you can call me a jerk all you like - the facts are I explained my reasons for believing there was a creator of some kind, and you had a snit about it, claiming it sets off your *gasp* bullshit alarm (how dreadful of me to do that!) or snidly recommending I just read your post full of infinite wisdom on the previos page, as if it will magically make me realize how bright you are and how dumb I and all the non-Atheists are. Spare me.

 

Hilarious!! YOU lecturing ME on showing a fellow board member "respect"??

I see you are not familiar with the term "hypocrite"?

As for the meat of your comment above, again sorry, but are you the board administrator?

It's a public forum wolfy, if you don't like what I have to say, follow your own advice and show some respect, and you might get a respectful, thoughtful reply.

If you were reading the exchanges between myself and NotBlindedByTheLight, you'll see that being "right" isn't nearly as important to me as understanding and critiquing what I read here, contributing, and some of the personal interaction. With yourself and the Christian troll being the only two exceptions so far.

 

Yes, I see a hypocrite in you, actually. You can look down your nose at what I posit, but Jesus tap-dancing Christ, I'd better not dare look down on your snide remarks! I know lots of words - not being an Atheist hasn't hampered my ability to learn my own language. Nice try at being a condescending twit - really, though, you're quite good at it.

 

So, you either owe me a big wet sloppy apology,

or a lot of people just saw you for what you are,

if you're satisfied with that, then good for you!

Bye now. FNA

 

I've been coming here for awhile, so just about everyone here already has seen me for what I am - just another board member with his own mind to speak. And I am very satisfied with that

 

Oh, and about ignoring you? Sounds good - I think I'll go do that.

 

But watch out, there may be a non-Atheist under your bed - booga booga!

[NotBlinded]

Open_Minded:

 

I just read your post after reading the rather unfriendly post by Wolfheart.

I very much liked what you said, and believe it or not I understand fully!

Experience combined with perception makes reality what it is to each of us capable of describing it in any way.

 

I also agree, and have said before, that is if there is a god (and I do not see any evidence to suggest there is), such an entity must be a natural occurrance within this universe, and can not be separate and apart from it - anything that exists, even if it were Jesus Christ as described by the most hardened christian, is part of the universe, since the universe is the set of all things and not a system or subset within it. As PART of the universe, the functionality of a god would have to be redefined to make sense, and it could not be the christian/ hebrew / islamic god.

(At least not as advertised, but the differences would constitute an entirely different religion from the aforementioned three).

 

-FNA

Oh...we have talked about that before. O_M? Do you recall where that was? But, actually it could be that god if one were to understand that what is understood to be god by the literalists is just a man-made description. But, I do agree that what one thinks when they read the word 'god' needs to be re-defined.

 

Oh and Greg...it's the blight I'm not blinded by...like in the form of blight that the fundamentalists reap on society?

[Friendly neighborhood atheist]

The christian troll appeared in the "No christian in a foxhole" thread and then again in "Rants and Replies" in "There are no atheists".

I wasn't referring to your friend.

 

Wolfy, responding to you at this point is a waste of time.

You have a lot of anger, and your assessment of me is, well, unique if I ever heard it.

I wish you well, but I wish you well far, far away from me.

You're a disrespectful, vulgar little thing. After reading your last post,

a rather interesting but so fatally flawwed attempt to respond to me,

I don't see any hope of making any sense to you, so why try.

So the situation is EXACTLY what you assused me of,

I'd be better off talking to a "babble-thumper" as you put it.

 

What a grade A asshole you've been to me today.

If you're always like this, why does the rest of the board put up with you?

 

PS - Sorry NB,

about getting your screen name wrong.

[Antlerman]

As a footnote to that unfortunate exchange:

 

FNA, if you ever feel a need to challenge me directly on any assumptions or thoughts I may post, please do so!! I need others to challenge me to keep me growing. I am not where I am at because I figured it all out without others shooting me down many times. I welcome any criticism you may have.

[NotBlinded]

You are right, I shouldn't feel the need to justify what I believe. I just was in hopes that what I said would be able to spark that little understanding that I had, and in the process, prove fruitful for me because of the research I have to do to express what I'm trying to say. But, everyone has their own path and I shouldn't assume that my understanding may help others see things the way I do. That is my ego.

I'm glad you're not angry with me. I didn't like the feeling that I offended you. I really would like to continue asking you questions (sometimes pointed), if I may?

Of course. I wasn't angry, but felt bad because I couldn't say what I wanted to say. And that is a reflection on me, not on you. It is my insecurities.

 

I recognize and fully agree with you that a lot of the process that I've seen in others and myself has been to go from religious literalism to the exact other extreme, i.e., "the bible is false so spirituality has zero value!" It's the same thing as saying the bible is true so anyone who thinks differently is wrong.

 

I am finding value in the nurturing of that spiritual aspect of my human nature, but I cannot and will not allow myself to base it on the same sorts of faulty grounds as I did in accepting the logical arguments of the apologists. You do understand, don't you? What happened to the value of that faith once the arguments that "validated it" became exposed as false??? The whole thing fell apart!

Of course I understand and I was thinking I was doing the same. It is very logical to me when I notice that what I see is only a part of what it is. Through reductionism, we can see that there 'seems' to be a force (a natural force) that keeps the atoms doing exactly what they do...they don't 'allow' me to put my hand through a brick because of an opposing, static force. These forces, to me, has an element of 'intelligence'. Not an outside intelligence acting on it, but a necessary part of it.

 

This is why I am so careful in weighing what other people say about how they approach a spiritual outlook on life. If I hear they are basing it on fallacies of logic or science, then I see this as a major warning flag to its potential collapse for them. I guess that is why I'm focusing my thoughts at something I've said before that, "A mythology has to transcend the temporal for it to have true power. If it is brought down into the temporal, then it's testable and becomes a suspect as Bigfoot and ET, thus loosing its transcendent nature." (Something to that effect).

I agree that the myth has to transcend the temporal in the way that it is spoken of because forms have to be used when understanding what doesn't have form. I think the temporal is only the transcendent in form, but yet, it can't be known by looking at the forms. Here is a paradox. All forms are temporal, relatively so, but what the form IS is transcendent. I hope this is making sense... I don't know how else to say it.

 

If someone were to simply say, "I believe in God because I feel it in my heart", and leave it at that, well.... great! And you know, that actually might have meaning to me as I see how happy that belief makes them. It was someone else's enthusiasm about sushi that opened me to try it. Now I love eel! But nope... instead out come all these rational proofs of his existence in a rock, a fish, etc... Now God is in the temporal realm, and has been diminished as a mythological symbol.

I think that the whole is greater than it's parts, so having 'god' be in the temporal realm, relatively, is just a play on form. I'm gonna say it...everything is one and the One is playing with form. I don't think I can defend that though other than what you and others call psuedoscience. And it could possibly be that I don't understand enough of science to understand otherwise.

 

Indeed, you may not be doing this and are simply using symbolic language in a way to communicate experience - poetry. And I think this is what I sense your frustration is about? Have you ever thought of writing music? You should hear some of my compositions sometime - they are all about these metaphysical concepts. (It was the only language with enough words to make an attempt at this) Let me know in a PM if you're interested in hearing any of them?

Maybe the misunderstanding is that I don't see anything un-natural or illogical about what I believe. The universe seems to be inundated with intelligence...everywhere. It is logical, for me, to see this intelligence being greater than its parts.

 

I write a little poetry now and then, but I am one of those people that can't pick out the sound of a bass from a bass drum.

[pandora]

It may be that I am crazy and have no reading comprehension, but it seemed to me that Wolf was nice enough... at least not rude. ?

[Lycorth]

It may be that I am crazy and have no reading comprehension, but it seemed to me that Wolf was nice enough... at least not rude. ?

 

Careful, pandora, disagreeing with the Almighty Atheist isn't allowed

[Friendly neighborhood atheist]

Pandora, go back a page or two - his post beginning with

"That's it" directed towards me.

[Open_Minded]

Open_Minded:

 

I just read your post after reading the rather unfriendly post by Wolfheart.

I very much liked what you said, and believe it or not I understand fully!

Experience combined with perception makes reality what it is to each of us capable of describing it in any way.

 

Woaah... there FNA... time for a reality check.

1. You are posting in a thread titled "Who's our Creator".
   
2. In your correspondence with Wolfheart you said, "No offense meant beyond the obvious here Wolfheart, but claiming creators in my presence will set off the bullshit alarm every time."
   
3. Why post in a thread titled, "Who's our Creator" if you're "bullshit" alarm is going to be constantly going off?
   
4. You have your reasons for being here, too.
   
5. I like Wolfheart - he doesn't need my support - but you were posting to a diest and telling him your "bullshit" alarm goes off by simply, "claiming creators in my presence".
   
6. How did you expect him to respond?
   

The "unfriendly post by Wolfheart" was tame for the lion's den. There are a wide variety of good people on this board all trying to learn from each other and get a little support, when they need it. What you said about "bullshit" in reference to "claiming creators" was dumping on Wolfheart's beliefs (and a lot of other people's beliefs on this board).

 

I also agree, and have said before, that is if there is a god (and I do not see any evidence to suggest there is), such an entity must be a natural occurrance within this universe, and can not be separate and apart from it -

 

Good, then as time goes on we will have a place for our minds to meet, a starting point for our discussions.

 

As you get to know me you'll pick on the aspect of me that is a lateral thinker, an "outside the box" kinda guy. But I'd like to paint an analogy for you using the puzzle model. Imagine we don't know how many pieces the puzzle has, nor what the image (picture) is once the entire puzzle is put together will be.

<Snip>

This is the important part: NONE of the pieces we find are going to turn that giraffe into an elephant.

Oh, there might very well BE an elephant in the picture, somewhere, but we haven't found any evidence to suggest that yet. But we DO know there's a giraffe in here, and we're looking for the rest of it before proceeding to the next clear form in this puzzle.

 

Does that makes sense to you? (I hope)?

 

And as you get to know me you'll learn that it is not my habit to turn giraffes into elephants.

 

Again, welcome to the board.

 

In Peace:

 

Open_Minded

[Lycorth]

O_M, notice how he has to mention how awful I am to him, even when responding to someone else's post? It's like he has to score points with everyone else just because I bit him in the ass.

[pandora]

LOL Oh, that. Well, he has a point... we have no proof that the Universe had no Creator. Practically, I'm an athiest... but I recognize that this is some sort of faith position or opinion too, so philosophically I'm an agnostic. His position is not without reason. It doesn't affect his lifestyle or politics or anything of that sort that should concern those of us who don't fully agree. As for the 'tude, well... we all have bad days.

[NotBlinded]

It may be that I am crazy and have no reading comprehension, but it seemed to me that Wolf was nice enough... at least not rude. ?

I would have to say the Wolf was only stating what he believed and was very nice. I think, I could be wrong Wolf, that what is getting Wolf is the way that FNA states what he knows as fact. Please don't get offended FNA, I am just trying to mediate here a little. Although there are times that I should just shut-up. I also noticed this about FNA but I knew it was probably the way that I took what he said as offensive to me. I took it personally. I think he is just attacking what we believe and not who we are.

 

Of course, FNA, this does mean that what I have been saying is true. We are not who we think we are! You can only hurt our egos!

[cathuria]

keep your opinions to yourself unless asked for them.

 

mmm, yup, that was unfriendly... and rude. Everyone on this board has the right to volunteer their opinions. If, however, that is actually not true, then I am so seriously in the wrong place.

 

However, polite applause for both Antlerman and NBBTB for their willingness to engage constructively and elucidate their viewpoints at length. Thank you.

 

Nonetheless, I remain firmly seated in FNA's camp.

[NotBlinded]

However, polite applause for both Antlerman and NBBTB for their willingness to engage constructively and elucidate their viewpoints at length. Thank you.

 

Nonetheless, I remain firmly seated in FNA's camp.

[Antlerman]

keep your opinions to yourself unless asked for them.

 

mmm, yup, that was unfriendly... and rude. Everyone on this board has the right to volunteer their opinions. If, however, that is actually not true, then I am so seriously in the wrong place.

 

However, polite applause for both Antlerman and NBBTB for their willingness to engage constructively and elucidate their viewpoints at length. Thank you.

 

Nonetheless, I remain firmly seated in FNA's camp.

If you go back a little way's, I'm more in FNA's camp (I'm looking at spirituality as a purely human response to life, not an external reality rooted in the natural).

 

BTW, I guess I can understand how some may react to the straight forward honest style of FNA's challenge of ideas. I for one respond well to that. I live with someone who’s very direct with me, and as much as sometimes it makes me feel exposed and vulnerable, I grow 10 xs faster with a good chilling dose of honesty.

[Lycorth]

In my own defense...

 

NotBlinded, what got me was how FNA did state as if every single thing he said was irrefutable fact, and that I was nuts to say otherwise. No attempt to be tolerant or understanding or any of that jazz, just snide arrogance at an opinion he didn't approve of. I do hope I explained well enough.

 

keep your opinions to yourself unless asked for them.

 

mmm, yup, that was unfriendly... and rude. Everyone on this board has the right to volunteer their opinions. If, however, that is actually not true, then I am so seriously in the wrong place.

 

It was neither unfriendly nor rude - at least, no more so than how I was treated. And I made that statement in response to FNA's preachy responses, in other words, he should keep the preaching to himself unless I ask him to preach at me, as well as piss on my opinions, neither of which I would of course do. Hope that explains it, too.

[Friendly neighborhood atheist]

Thanks for the comments.

 

Wolfbreath, you're an asshole and if you talked to me like that in person I'd make an impression on you you'd never forget. But since you only have text on a screen to work with, have your fun and let the board see you for who and what you are.

 

I'll tell you all right now that today's experience with wolfbait over here was an extremely negative one, and entirely unecessary. It does make me re-think if I'm on the right board or not.

This is after all, an ex-christian board, not an atheist board.

That in and of itslef is not the problem though. I'm quite used to haing to deal with religious, quasi-religious, and spiritual beliefs in my discussions on these topics with various people.

 

What I am also sadly used to, is someone like wolfdung coming along making it all about him,

demanding attention by starting a fight, or "biting someone in the ass" as he pits it.

People like that take away from the appeal of contributing on any message board for anyone.

It's not a debate with him, it's not about respect with him, it's about being as much of a vulgar profane asshole as possible to someone if he decides he doesn't like them or what they have to say. That's called bullying, and he does it as well as any christian.

Admit it wolfface, you use your load obnoxious personality to respond to dissenters, not reason, respect, or anything that might illicit a positive response.

I don't care to tolerate people like that if I don't have to - and I DON'T have to.

 

So, if it stops being fun or rewarding, there's no point whatsoever in trying to contribute around here. I suppose wolfwhimp will think he's won, done the board a service, or feel somehow victorious... after all, he's an established board member! He has tenure.

I'm just a newbie to the board, so no great loss.... right?

 

Peace to the rest of you. Wolfshit, I hope you meet someone like me in person someday.

You might get taught some manners - you certainly need them.

[white_raven23]

Guys Guys Guys!

 

Eeeeaasy....... Let's not go comparing one another to christians, becasue as we all know, many of us had a rough go seeking our own truth, and breaking away from the dogma was NOT easy. Slapping labels on each other is not a solution! It just upsets people. It hurts people, and we really don't want to do that, do we?

 

Watching a fellow deist, and and atheist go at it is tragic to me! Especially as all either of you can really and truly say and do coming from your individual positions is just trade insults.

 

Believing in a supreme being and it's possible unknown influence on creation does NOT mean christianity. Belief in a god doesn't mean christianity either.

 

Remember it is religion that is the real opposition, not different beliefs and viewpoints.

 

If someone comes in here and wants to believe all of creation came from a golden egg laid by a red hen....what is the harm so long as that person isn't trying to force others to believe that too?

 

Deeeep breath folks. No one is trying to "change" anyone's viewpoints......at least I don't think that was the intent at first........only trying to get one another to "see" from their perspective, and as intelligent beings we can do that. The very reason we broke away from christianity to begin with, was that we could hold opposing viewpoints in our heads long enough to examine and compare them.

 

We have a lot to learn. Room for lots of perspectives here.

[Lycorth]

Wolfbreath, you're an asshole and if you talked to me like that in person I'd make an impression on you you'd never forget.

 

I highly doubt it, child. I've faced down worse people than someone like you, and I'm still here, alive and fine. Name-calling won't get my goat, and phony threats will only encourage me to laugh at you. Just can't take it that I won't back down and that everyone's not "on your side." Now who's acting immature?

 

Now to go back to my word and resume ignoring.

[Antlerman]

Ok, Ok!! Quit! Maybe in order to keep things where everyone can contribute without personal insults we can go to the Colessum [sic] where these sort of exchanges are moderated and not allowed. If someone doesn't like the other user (and I had one here I met here that made me and others pissed off), then you can click on IGNORE USER, and you never have to read that users posts and get yourself all upset by it.

 

I hate to see anyone's experience be diminished this way. Please, there's no need for this. It accomplishes nothing for anyone else, and these boards are about helping each other - not this.

[Onyx]

Big bang, evolution, Universe, Time and Energy is my Quintrinity.

All can't exist without each other.

I worship them, lol!