Deva

Isn't it Sad that People Deconvert and then Relapse?

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What's sadder is that we live in a society like this. Where there is so much hurt and pain that we feel the need to rely on something like Christianity. 

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I think that it's not always emotions, feelings, pressure of believing family members or missing a community makes people relapsing to Christianity...it's mostly

(I think and observe) events in life that they and we in general can't control like:

 

- sudden and unexpected coming of physical or mental illness,

- death of beloved person,

- some kind of hole in heart and in life that scientific facts can't fill,

- maybe an addiction that came all of the sudden after de-conversion that secular therapy couldn't remove from someone's life,

- some spiritual experiences, dreams and coincidences that makes them think about potential existence of spiritual world,

-stories of exorcism and possession, that not always seem to be fake,

-people's incredibly complex testimonies.

 

It's hard to say how the bravest and one of the greatest world's atheists or atheists from this forum will behave when they will be dying one day...no one knows if they won't whisper in their mind to God in agony. In a such a serious moment it's hard to just stick to the facts. I'm thinking about myself too in that context.

 

In February 2017, I had a battle in my mind, when my dad had a surgery in Neurosurgical Department (I heard from ER doctor that my dear dad might not survive). Whether should I pray or not, should I be angry at God whose existence I doubt?

I prayed anyway and said many things "automatically" to God, but I knew that whether my dad survive or not I won't be 100% convinced to stay in Church and be a happy thankful Christian.

 

I knew that I screwed up and my dad became an alcoholic, because of my shopaholic addiction (that happened after my deconversion although I'm still in church) and because of my debts that killed him as a man who respects money and saves them his whole life.

 

Well, my dad had this surgery, cause he fell during winter in February on the ground (in alcoholic state of mind). That was Saturday (the day of the surgery) and I called to the "sister" from the church to say that I will be absent on Sunday and I couldn't help, but tears came out and I said what happened with a broken voice. She sent messages to different people to pray...well, doctor said that it was a miracle that my dad survived-he had lots of alcohol in his blood and a subdural hematoma, his right side of body was paralyzed. My mum died almost 16 years ago...I didn't want my dad to die too. 

 

You might wonder, if that tragic event removed my doubts about Christianity or made me to come back with heart and soul to the Lord?...NO. Not that much because of Darwin's evolution, but because my love for secular ART, dance and music is too strong to be satisfied within church.I've got a dream to become a screenwriter and write about people's issues and problem of crisis of faith, rise people's awareness towards mental illnesses and so on. But I know that movie industry and artistic world is filled with greedy people, perversion, wild parties and lots of forbidden things that I fear and in the same time I am interested in or curious. Sometimes I think that after inner de-conversion DEMONS  entered my life, especially my brain- I experience range of complicated feelings, I laugh inside with a smile on my face, when some people suffer or are unhappy/  I've got lots of impure and evil thoughts. I'm hurt and torn apart in general. My personality is divided into angel and a evil persona. I've got 2 totally diffrent faces.

 

Everyday I have to fight with my desire to shop and making new debts, I have to fight with my laziness, lack of motivation to go to Nursing and Public Health Studies and to 1 year school, where I learn how to become a Dental Assistant.

I know that after medical education there is lots of work options in my country and abroad, but I'm not sure if my inner conflicts that are very complex and absence of parents in my future adult life will allow me to help sick patients with a stable mind. Maybe I should be just a waitress or a charwoman or English teacher or... a writer (but it causes too much obsessions inside of me, my imagination and characters that I create make me crazy, keep me in unreal world.).

 

I'M AT HIGH RISK OF COMING BACK TO CHURCH TO FEEL LORD's LOVE, PEACE again and to make himconnect my torn personality together again, but sorry... I can't, because I know too much about  evolution and scientific facts.

 

Lot's of Atheists, especially famous have satisfying life, friends, money, conferences, podcasts and judge easily believing people for lack of scepticism towars religion, WITHOUT knowing believer's struggles and lifestories. I've never heard of Atheist who survived his or her mental illness or went through exorcism that became unreal to her or him or Atheist who were raised without parent or parents and now have a happy life witout God.

 

My Rational and Christian side stll fights and it's hard to say if there will ever be a true WINNER in this neverending argument. :blink:

 

 

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2 hours ago, Deva said:

 Let me just say I hope posting this thread did not cause you pain, Margee. Of course, never my intention! 

 

Reliving the past is something I do more and more now that I am older.  But I don't really thing I had much choice in some of the major decisions I made that didn't turn out well.  I really think a lot of it was just inevitable.

Getting back to how bad this end times religion is - of course Christians believe they will be saved on the basis of their belief alone. But other scriptures say otherwise. So I can't see how they can cherry pick and hone in on some verses or set of verses (mostly Paul's letters) and ignore the other parts that go against this. I say its a form of selective blindness, and it is through their entire lives.  Its just like otherwise normal and intelligent people with blinders on.  There is so much in the world they will not look at.

Not at all Deva. I love this thread. It's good to get some of this stuff off my mind. I've been carrying it too long. It's like a 'soul cleansing'! Lol

 

Deva, when I belonged to the Pentecostal church, (even within the church) there were so many opinions about end times and some of these opinions used to go against what the actual pastor was preaching? Isn't that bold to go against the pastor? I used to get so confused!! Lol

 

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26 minutes ago, Lost said:

 

 

My Rational and Christian side stll fights and it's hard to say if there will ever be a true WINNER in this neverending argument. :blink:

 

 

1

Lost, you will be a winner. It will come in time. You've made some really good points in your thread. You are becoming very aware. It's OK to be confused right now. It's OK for you to do what you need to do in this process of deconverting. We all do it a bit different and some people get through it real fast and others (like me) take a bit longer. Just keep reading and writing and asking questions. Don't try to figure it out all at once. It's OK not to know all the answers right now. Give yourself permission to take one day at a time. Keep posting hun.

 

(hug)

 

P.S. I fully intend on taking my ''Please Forgive Me'' letter to the grave with me. It's a given! 

 

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15 hours ago, Deva said:

Oh yes, as a child I never saw it as manipulation either. I thought there must be something wrong with me if I couldn't believe it.  The only thing was that after I was I teenager the whole thing seemed more and more unreal and remote from everyday experience, especially as I began to observe nature in a very keen way. Then I had a breakthrough one evening when I was listening to a preacher on the radio who said something to the effect that you should be sure of your salvation.  I just thought that was a total impossibility.  Complete baloney.  That could have been the moment when I rather decisively dismissed it all intellectually.

 

But  I still wanted to please my parents and authority figures. I still do it today. This trait has to be wired into me genetically (this could open up a whole new thread topic). Its probably why I can successfully work for attorneys!

 

I just didn't experience the "teenage doubt" to any real degree. I've always doubted by my parents' standards, but I was pretty far gone by my current standards of "doubt/disbelief." My "doubts" never had anything to do with Bible stories, it was existential. Why is there a hell? How does free will work with predestination? If I wasn't considering the implications of my beliefs, I was consumed by doctrine and defending my apologetics. I never had time to doubt whether or not the virgin birth happened, because I was so busy with the "right answers" to that question. My parents did such a good job of having an "us vs. the world" mentality that any doubts were from satan and to be cast away lol. I doubted my own doubts for YEARS.

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On 2017-11-06 at 12:42 PM, Lilith666 said:

If it were just that religion makes people happy, I wouldn't hold it against them. But because they try to suck others into their damaging beliefs...then we have a problem. 

 

Christianity is like syphilis or herpes! Getting it can be a bit of a buzz, but it's a pain in the a$$ to get rid of. And, worst of all, those that have it like to share it!

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6 hours ago, Positivist said:

 

Christianity is like syphilis or herpes! Getting it can be a bit of a buzz, but it's a pain in the a$$ to get rid of. And, worst of all, those that have it like to share it!

 

I have often compared it this way.....

 

Christianity is like Shingles....it hurts like hell, makes you wish you were dead, but it mostly won't kill you.

 

Islam is like small pox....it lays wasted to you, will likely kill you and you will be dead with it. 

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On 11/5/2017 at 1:50 AM, Thurisaz said:

 

I so know what you mean, and who you mean!

 

I've thought about unfriending him for a short moment but then... considering all the RL shit he's been going through lately, and still is going through, I do think this has not been a truly free choice on his part. He keeps stating that it's not the known mental afflictions that have plagued him for years that made him to full "on fire for jebus", but I do have my doubts. He certainly doesn't seem reasonable, so maybe he's developed another mental problem.

 

But yeah, it keeps him happy, probably gives him the strength to hold on, and as long as he's not starting to preach hellfire or try and convert everyone, I'm determined to just skip his fanatic jebus postings and be there for him regarding other things. Of course I've never been a morontheist myself so there's no risk that I could get triggered by his postings, so there.

 

I also know who this is (and no, I won't name him). I will not unfriend him for two reasons: first, because I don't unfriend people over differences of opinion, and second, because he sounds like he really needs friends. He knows where he's been, and I'm not about to try to interfere with his path in life. And his newfound happiness with his new church notwithstanding, he is going through very difficult times right now.

 

As for his preaching posts, I do what I do with the preaching posts from my other Christian friends: ignore most of them.

 

But there is one other relapse whom I felt a bond with, but for whom I feel less compassion. She came out at an event connected to the 2012 Reason Rally, which was my first experience among a large number of atheists. I was in the audience when she came out, and I related to what she said at the podium. A year later, I attended a dinner, and she sat next to me at the table.

 

This one I will name: she is Teresa MacBain. After the way she came out, leaving her congregation in the lurch (and lying to the secular community about her status there); the way she manipulated the Clergy Project into giving her a position; lying on her résumé about her education; and returning to Christianity without notifying the Clergy Project (a security risk for a confidential organization); I don't know why anyone would trust her today.

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On 5.12.2017 at 3:45 AM, Cousin Ricky said:

This one I will name: she is Teresa MacBain. 

 

Wow, You had an opportunity to meet this woman in real life. I also wonder, what happened to her and what was a cause for her relapse.

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