Quantum Leap

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Orbit said:

 

This is utter nonsense.

The gospel is foolishness to those who don’t believe it. I am not Pentecostal, but have Pentecostal brothers and sisters. I am not Baptist, but have Baptist brothers and sisters. I am not Methodist, but have Methodist brothers and sisters. I am not Catholic, but have Catholic brothers and sisters. 

 

I mean brothers and sisters in the Lord. When I was in college, I worked at the university as a research assistant. My professor was an atheist. I found out some of the people I worked with were Christians- as in saved. One was an Anglican and he and I talked about how and why some of his fellow church goers had decided to break away from the Episcopal church he and his family attended, and how and why his daughter preferred a Lutheran church. 

 

The other man I worked with was a Japanese student who was a Covenanter. He told me quite a lot about the denomination. The thing is this: we were fellowshipping around Christ, not divided because we don’t agree with each other’s doctrines. 

 

There is a very fine Eastern Orthodox lady I met online, who is lovely and her love for God is so pure. 

 

 

[midniterider]

1 minute ago, PennySerenade said:

The gospel is foolishness to those who don’t believe it. I am not Pentecostal, but have Pentecostal brothers and sisters. I am not Baptist, but have Baptist brothers and sisters. I am not Methodist, but have Methodist brothers and sisters. I am not Catholic, but have Catholic brothers and sisters. 

 

I mean brothers and sisters in the Lord. When I was in college, I worked at the university as a research assistant. My professor was an atheist. I found out some of the people I worked with were Christians- as in saved. One was an Anglican and he and I talked about how and why some of his fellow church goers had decided to break away from the Episcopal church he and his family attended, and how and why his daughter preferred a Lutheran church. 

 

The other man I worked with was a Japanese student who was a Covenanter. He told me quite a lot about the denomination. The thing is this: we were fellowshipping around Christ, not divided because we don’t agree with each other’s doctrines. 

 

There is a very fine Eastern Orthodox lady I met online, who is lovely and her love for God is so pure. 

 

 

 

Do you have Mormon or Jehovah's Witness brothers and sisters?

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, midniterider said:

 

What does religion mean?

 

 

Religion means that a person must do some things and not do others to obtain salvation. 

 

Christianity is believing in Christ. I know there are many Christians who believe they must do things or not do things to maintain salvation- but in order to obtain it in the first place, it is by grace through faith, not of works. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, midniterider said:

 

Do you have Mormon or Jehovah's Witness brothers and sisters?

I do not know what they believe. If they believe salvation is not obtained by grace through faith- then no. Salvation is a gift. This is like the primary thing that binds us together. This is why we say “accepting Christ as Saviour”.

[Orbit]

Just now, PennySerenade said:

Religion means that a person must do some things and not do others to obtain salvation. 

 

Christianity is believing in Christ. I know there are many Christians who believe they must do things or not do things to maintain salvation- but in order to obtain it in the first place, it is by grace through faith, not of works. 

 

No, Christianity is an organized religion. You are making up your own palatable definition of it so that you don't have to face its contradictions.

[Guest]

Just now, Orbit said:

 

No, Christianity is an organized religion. You are making up your own palatable definition of it so that you don't have to face its contradictions.

It is not very organized since there are so many sects and people can interpret the Bible differently.

[midniterider]

2 minutes ago, PennySerenade said:

Religion means that a person must do some things and not do others to obtain salvation. 

 

Christianity is believing in Christ. I know there are many Christians who believe they must do things or not do things to maintain salvation- but in order to obtain it in the first place, it is by grace through faith, not of works. 

 

I was just thinking of the dictionary definition(s).

 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religion

 

 

[Orbit]

1 minute ago, PennySerenade said:

It is not very organized since there are so many sects and people can interpret the Bible differently.

 

And all of them are organized.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Orbit said:

 

So you have internalized classism? That's pretty sad.

I think if you delve into it, most lower class people do have a keen awareness of class. After all, much of the content of rap music is about class. 

 

[Orbit]

Just now, PennySerenade said:

I think if you delve into it, most lower class people do have a keen awareness of class. After all, much of the content of rap music is about class. 

 

 

just......irrelevant to my statement.

[Guest]

Just now, Orbit said:

 

And all of them are organized.

I don’t know, some Pentecostal services are not very organized. 

 

Christians are in every denomination, I don’t understand why that is a surprising thing. 

[midniterider]

1 minute ago, PennySerenade said:

It is not very organized since there are so many sects and people can interpret the Bible differently.

 

So how much 'thought time' would I need to give to Jesus to consider myself saved? Or can I decide that I am saved and not think of Him ever again. That would be my preference.

[Guest]

Just now, Orbit said:

 

just......irrelevant to my statement.

You said my internalized classicism was sad- but I think all lower class people are keenly aware of their status. I make self deprecatory remarks about my status all the time as a defense mechanism. 

 

Lower class people KNOW there are classes in the US. I think middle class people are unaware of classes in the US. 

[Orbit]

1 minute ago, PennySerenade said:

I don’t know, some Pentecostal services are not very organized. 

 

Christians are in every denomination, I don’t understand why that is a surprising thing. 

 

Do you know nothing about religion? All churches have some kind of organization. There are deacons, pastors, doctrine, statements of faith

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, midniterider said:

 

So how much 'thought time' would I need to give to Jesus to consider myself saved? Or can I decide that I am saved and not think of Him ever again. That would be my preference.

You have to believe in your heart that He is God and has saved you. 

 

After that happens, you want to think of Him. 

[Orbit]

Just now, PennySerenade said:

You said my internalized classicism was sad- but I think all lower class people are keenly aware of their status. I make self deprecatory remarks about my status all the time as a defense mechanism. 

 

Lower class people KNOW there are classes in the US. I think middle class people are unaware of classes in the US. 

 

I think you will find that all classes are aware of social class

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Orbit said:

 

Do you know nothing about religion? All churches have some kind of organization. There are deacons, pastors, doctrine, statements of faith

I think my definition of religion is different from yours. In my mind, religion means you have to do something. In Christianity, you have to believe something.

[Orbit]

Just now, PennySerenade said:

I think my definition of religion is different from yours. In my mind, religion means you have to do something. In Christianity, you have to believe something.

 

You don't get to make your own definition of words.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Orbit said:

 

I think you will find that all classes are aware of social class

I don’t know. There are an awful lot of middle class people who think people can get out of poverty simply by getting a job. 

[Guest]

Just now, Orbit said:

 

You don't get to make your own definition of words.

People do all the time. One person’s definition of marriage is between one man and one woman. Another person’s definition of marriage is one person with one person. Another person’s definition of marriage is marrying herself or himself. Another person’s definition of marriage is one man and multiple women. 

 

Any person can say to another “your definition is incorrect, you don’t get to define marriage.”

 

People’s definitions of love are different, that is part of the reason there are so many relationship problems. A woman may need to hear her boyfriend or husband say he loves her, but he is aghast because he is constantly doing things to show he loves her- they define love differently. 

 

Most of you define God differently than I do. If He is not real, then what does it matter if my definition is not yours? 

[Orbit]

1 minute ago, PennySerenade said:

People do all the time. One person’s definition of marriage is between one man and one woman. Another person’s definition of marriage is one person with one person. Another person’s definition of marriage is marrying herself or himself. Another person’s definition of marriage is one man and multiple women. 

 

Any person can say to another “your definition is incorrect, you don’t get to define marriage.”

 

People’s definitions of love are different, that is part of the reason there are so many relationship problems. A woman may need to hear her boyfriend or husband say he loves her, but he is aghast because he is constantly doing things to show he loves her- they define love differently. 

 

Most of you define God differently than I do. If He is not real, then what does it matter if my definition is not yours? 

We have definitions for all these things, that people don't just make up: marriage; same sex marriage; polygyny; polyandry; polygamy; polyandry.

[Orbit]

4 minutes ago, PennySerenade said:

People do all the time. One person’s definition of marriage is between one man and one woman. Another person’s definition of marriage is one person with one person. Another person’s definition of marriage is marrying herself or himself. Another person’s definition of marriage is one man and multiple women. 

 

Any person can say to another “your definition is incorrect, you don’t get to define marriage.”

 

People’s definitions of love are different, that is part of the reason there are so many relationship problems. A woman may need to hear her boyfriend or husband say he loves her, but he is aghast because he is constantly doing things to show he loves her- they define love differently. 

 

Most of you define God differently than I do. If He is not real, then what does it matter if my definition is not yours? 

 

God isn't real. God is a myth. But that myth is real and you don't get to rationalize and sanitize that myth.

[disillusioned]

Penny, you've been speaking with great conviction here about what you believe. It is clear that you have your own personal version of Christianity which you hold to be correct, or at least more correct than other versions. This is tantamount to making a direct claim that you know the will of God. I would like to know what makes you qualified to make such a claim. 

[midniterider]

17 minutes ago, PennySerenade said:

You have to believe in your heart that He is God and has saved you. 

 

After that happens, you want to think of Him. 

 

Well, there's banter on this site now and again about scripture saying 'Faith, not Works' .... vs 'Faith without works is dead' .... I kind of think Faith 'is' Works. It's a personal work. Mental work. As a believing Christian in the 90s I did think of him...but after a while Jesusy thought became a major annoyance. Jesus did not set my mind free. He locked it up with silly rules. So I said bye bye.

 

One of my relatives must really love Jesus because she turns every conversation into a Jesus conversation. I consider her it to be her obsession. Her obsession with Jesus may be fine with her but I'd rather not listen to it.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Orbit said:

 

God isn't real. God is a myth. But that myth is real and you don't get to rationalize and sanitize that myth.

You define God as a myth. I do not- so we absolutely get to define words and concepts ourselves.