My farewell to Ex-C.

[RealityCheck]

This post has been a long time coming, I feel it to be a necessity in order for me to truly move on.  I joined this site June of 2013 and it served as a new community after severing ties with my church circles.  Over time, I've talked to some incredible people, some I've had the privilege of meeting in person.  I've even found relationships here, twice, something that I didn't expect from a forum of this nature.  That's not to say that I've gotten along with everyone but that's inevitable when you gather many individuals with separate life experiences all in one place.  Many who were with me on this journey are now long gone from the site and thus, perhaps it's time I follow in their footsteps.  

 

There are several reasons why I'm choosing this route.  I see this site as a sort of medicine, a kind or treatment for people who have been negatively affected by Christianity.  I'm at the point where I hardly think about it in a daily basis, the days where I was a church drone are in the distant past now as well as any residual emotions that came along with them.  I think it is safe to say that I have completed the recovery cycle and have moved on to other things, other groups, other interests, etc.  There is no sense in continuing to take the medicine if you aren't afflicted with the condition it was intended to heal.  There is nothing more that I can gain from this site or contribute.  Sure, I might encourage new non believers here every once in a while but there are those here who feel more passionate about it and thus will do a much better job than me.

 

On top of this, an ideological rift has formed between me and the majority of the members here.  I don't think these differences are reconcilable, the tribal nature of humanity precludes that from ever happening. I suppose that I've found my tribe elsewhere at this point.

 

I would like to thank everyone who recently commented on the thread where my father passed away.  I much appreciate the advice and encouragement.  The same goes for everyone who is still reading me and have done the same in other instances.  Right now I will reach out and say my goodbyes to some of the members here via PM.  Once they all reply, I will ask Margee or one of the mods to permanently delete my profile.  Anyways, that is all I have to say for now.

[Geezer]

Live long and prosper!  You will be missed. 

[midniterider]

Take care. I think your comments about not taking medicine when  you dont need it anymore is a good point. Why would someone who has left Christianity keep talking about Christianity? I ask myself this now and again.  

[MOHO]

Salu, @RealityCheck.

 

I wish you success in whatever you have planned for the next phase of your life.

    - MOHO

[ConsiderTheSource]

Delete your profile, an anonymous profile?  Who does that benefit?

[disillusioned]

See you RC. Glad you got what you needed. Best of luck.

[Dreamer]

It is great to see an encouraging post such as this. I am very new to the site and being an ex-Christian. I think testimonies such as this give a lot of encouragement to those of us who are just starting the recovery cycle!

[Blue]

Your post is very encouraging to me and I am also very happy for you recovering.

[RealityCheck]

I'm still here for a bit longer till I reply to some messages that I've been sent and wrap up all conversations.  

3 hours ago, Dreamer said:

It is great to see an encouraging post such as this. I am very new to the site and being an ex-Christian. I think testimonies such as this give a lot of encouragement to those of us who are just starting the recovery cycle!

 

3 hours ago, Blue said:

Your post is very encouraging to me and I am also very happy for you recovering.

I understand that the recovery cycle is different for everyone.  However, my personal advice is be aware of when each step of the process ends and you're ready to move on to the next.  I wen't through an angry phase for example where I bashed Christianity and started many arguments/debates because of that anger.  Eventually, I reached a point where I wasn't compelled to do that anymore because those feelings subsided but still did it anyways because I wanted approval and acceptance from my atheist community.  Do not fall into that trap, it will impede your progress.  Do not rehash that which you have moved on from.  Most importantly, do not trade one set of dogmas for another, you will find many atheist hold on to other ideologies with the same adherence as they did religion.

That's all I can say, good luck to both of you and thank you for those responses.

[ag_NO_stic]

For those of you who missed my long odes.....drink up, bitches!  If you didn't, well, lucky for you, this post explains why you don't see them much anymore. Wanted to save you a read, you're welcome.  

 

When I heard you were leaving, I logged back in for the first time in a few months just to emphasize how much I totally understand and agree with you, RC. I will probably not delete my profile, I had good things to say that could help others, but I never log in anymore. Those who challenge the mainstream opinion politically end up leaving, mind relatively unchanged, but recognizing that some here aren't in pursuit of truth wherever that pursuit may lead. I know, I know, I should just avoid ToT right? It's not like I have to go there, like....just don't go there. So I didn't for awhile. But I am not fan of the "don't like it, just avoid it" concept. Why don't we like it in the first place? Can't we make it better for more people? Deal with the source of the problem! I would engage, take breaks and research, reexamine my beliefs.....but you start to feel really lonely when you don't want to talk to christians, you don't want to talk about christianity, and you now also don't want to deal with the increasingly frustrating "Woke." So many posts challenged my perspective; so I would research all different sides of an argument as time allowed, I was willing to change if the argument was convincing to me. When that feels one sided, after awhile, you just leave. You don't make some fuss, or demand change like some kind of narcissist; you stop with the rant posts or comments of frustration and you just leave. You look for those who listen like you try to. That's not even to be dramatic either, just a simple choice that seems best for everyone. If you're reading this and you have an urge to debate me or defend the situation as I'm describing it instead of just listening and empathizing with an opposing perspective (which is what we want from christians), you might be one of those people. As a christian, my pursuit of truth in spite of discomfort was met with "You're just an atheist because you just want to go out and sin" or "You just don't see it from our lord and savior's holy perspective yet" or "HOW can you read the bible and not see GOD everywhere?! How can you not see his hand in your life?!" When you drop christianity, you start to drop any conservatism at first too, surely they are uniquely linked because of all the annoying religious republicans I know. Turns out atheists can be moral without the bible AND fiscally conservative without faith, who knew. Now, I hear about my "sin of whiteness" / "just being mad because you have to make your racist jokes in private now" or "That's just internalized misogyny you haven't dealt with yet" or "not having arrived upon the real, "factual," truth of academia" in spite of my reality not matching up with what I was being taught.  Of course these are tropes, not necessarily a reference to direct encounters on this site, but that mindset is the same and is very recognizable and there was absolutely overlap. It's why many of us like the lion's den even if we haven't battled "this one" yet. You're right, I could avoid ToT. I was even shaming myself for not seeing it the way so many seemed to. Why couldn't I see it this way, what the heck? Why is this article or "evidence" not convincing to me? One day it clicked; it is what is and I feel how I feel and I think what I think through personal experience and I don't have to apologize for it. I tried it, don't agree, move on. I don't have to keep moving things around mentally, shifting things around to make sense of it, blaming myself, etc. This site helped me tremendously with leaving my faith, I'm forever grateful. I have met some truly wonderful people. Sure, I could stay for the new ex-christians.....but it's not like what I have to say is a whole lot different than others here, it's not like I have a @Margee hug (<3), it's not like I have loads of time, and we have archives and archives of users tackling the same material. It's not like I'm offering much new. That's just the humility of it. Everyone wants to be missed, and every active member is to an extent, but you're just one of many and everyone will be fine.

 

I'm not trying to make this political or start anything or be unkind or dramatic, it just pertains to the OP and I'm tired of downplaying or apologizing for where I legitimately am with all this political stuff. I joined when I was starting to value reason and the simple "live and let live" concept of beliefs and behavior. I stopped logging in awhile ago when I realized just how much these ideologies share with the faith I "left." I threw christianity the fuck away for many, many reasons. I refuse to blindly follow the majority consensus just because it's the majority or certain public figure endorsements or ideas purely for the sake of their partisan ties.There is true liberal thought, open dialogue, and constructive criticism of ideas on one hand (which I recognize and can take) and then there is privileged, condescending, parroted "education" with questionable many sources on the other (which I will not take). I am a free thinker. If you made it this far, I appreciate you taking the time. If you have more time, this article explains what I mean in particularly memorable way and is very well written. Also, I promise I do enjoy cat memes as well. I just tend to like the nitty gritty, just check my Enneagram results.  

 

https://www.alternet.org/2019/01/heres-why-evangelicals-and-social-justice-warriors-trigger-me-in-the-same-way/

 

Thanks for the post, RC. And thanks for your contributions here. 

[LogicalFallacy]

RC, sad to see you go, but glad you no longer have a need for 'medicine'. It's truly liberating when one finally breaks free of religion. 

 

On ideological differences, I largely agree with you that some differences are irreconcilable. However I by no means think that this means you can't have a good relationship with people with opposing views. I think of some members here where some of our opinions and beliefs are polar opposites yet we get on very well. I also think of my parents, whom I not only have differences with, but largely on worldviews, politics, religion we have the proverbial grand cannon between us. However I focus on what we do agree on rather than constantly spat about what we disagree on. 

 

Wishing you all the best for the future, and you know where to find us if you want to pop in and say hi.

 

@ag_NO_stic Hey - been thinking about you and where you'd disappeared to. Good to see you are still hangin' round. Sad that you don't post any more. I did enjoy reading your well thought out positions, and replying if I thought I had something to offer. Certainly navigating religions and political views can be challenging and wearying. You should try being a centrist politically! Oh My! 

 

 

[RealityCheck]

8 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

On ideological differences, I largely agree with you that some differences are irreconcilable. However I by no means think that this means you can't have a good relationship with people with opposing views.

If someone makes their whole life about Jesus for example, is it possible to have a relationship with them?  Do you really want to be around a person who brings up religion constantly?  I certainly don't.  This is also applicable to individuals who bring up racism, sexism, patriarchy, etc every other conversation.  When a person's identity is tied to their ideology to such an extreme, ideas that are intellectually repugnant in my opinion, there can't be a normal relationship.  It's like being around an alcoholic, sometimes they're normal but most of the time they're drunk and unruly.  To be fair, a good portion of the members here are moderates but the overall climate leans left. 

[RealityCheck]

@ag_NO_stic  there isn't much I can say to your post that I haven't said in our last two years of conversations.  I can agree with much of what you've said.  It seems that you have also moved on from this website and are forging your own path.  I'd like every new member (or lurker) reading this to take note, this fierce mental independence and resilience should be your end goal.  Beware of dogmatic ideas that are no better than the religion you just left behind.  Do not be emotionally dependent on the group, sure you can have friends but learn to stand on your own if necessary.  Your mind is yours and yours alone.

[disillusioned]

@ag_NO_stic, for what it's worth, I miss having you around here more often. I get everything you wrote,  and it's good that you are ready move on. You know where to find me if you want to talk.

[RealityCheck]

I'm probably drawing this out more than necessary but I might as well get everything off my chest now while I still can.  One thing that Ex-C has also taught me is that there is an immutable aspect of my nature.  It is not in me to be a neutral, agreeable, moderate individual.  Though I can suppress that for extended periods of time, eventually the polarizing side of me always wins.  I have fought this for years and every time this has caused me to emotionally hurt someone, I've looked at myself with disgust.  I don't have the energy to fight it anymore and thus, I choose to accept and embrace it.  Because of that potential that still lies inside of me, the most caring action I can take is removing myself from the equation.  The "tribe" that I mentioned in an earlier comment are people who can accept and work with that aspect of myself.
 

[RealityCheck]

Also, I wish I could go back to 2012, before the filthy politics crept into the atheist community.  Back then, the only time politics were mentioned was when Christians were trying to undermine the separation of church and state.  The specter of social justice or left vs right wasn't really upon us and if present, was nothing but faint background noise.  Of course, one cannot rewind back the clock in such a manner unless you had the power to put every atom, every particle, and every quantum state exactly where they were 7 years ago.  There is one particular person, the very first atheist friend I had, even before I joined this site who I would not lose with careless words.  She played a vital role in severing that last bit of attachment to my faith and hence how I started this journey.  I drove her away with careless words unfortunately and I would have chosen them much better with my current wisdom.  Hell, there are many people I drove away but now I see that it was an inevitable consequence of my personality and their personality. It was a rocky start indeed but still, I was at peace in the greater community then far more than I am now.

[LogicalFallacy]

4 hours ago, RealityCheck said:

Also, I wish I could go back to 2012, before the filthy politics crept into the atheist community.  Back then, the only time politics were mentioned was when Christians were trying to undermine the separation of church and state.  The specter of social justice or left vs right wasn't really upon us and if present, was nothing but faint background noise.  Of course, one cannot rewind back the clock in such a manner unless you had the power to put every atom, every particle, and every quantum state exactly where they were 7 years ago.  There is one particular person, the very first atheist friend I had, even before I joined this site who I would not lose with careless words.  She played a vital role in severing that last bit of attachment to my faith and hence how I started this journey.  I drove her away with careless words unfortunately and I would have chosen them much better with my current wisdom.  Hell, there are many people I drove away but now I see that it was an inevitable consequence of my personality and their personality. It was a rocky start indeed but still, I was at peace in the greater community then far more than I am now.

 

RC this probably reflects the wider state of things right now in society regarding politics, ideas, etc. We've reached a state where there are very important issues to talk about as a society but everyone ends up screaming over each others heads and labelling others and nothing gets done. Then people get sick of the din and so they crawl into the proverbial 'hole' in cyber space where they hang out with people who agree with them and occasionally pop their head out to see what's going on. A big problem imo.

 

Sorry to hear about your relationship with your friend. I'm sure most of us say or post stuff then later wish we hadn't.

[florduh]

18 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

RC this probably reflects the wider state of things right now in society regarding politics, ideas, etc. We've reached a state where there are very important issues to talk about as a society but everyone ends up screaming over each others heads and labelling others and nothing gets done.

 

"There are some very fine people on both sides."

 

 

[LogicalFallacy]

59 minutes ago, florduh said:

 

"There are some very fine people on both sides."

 

Aye, there are, and there are total arseholes on both sides as well...

 

 

[florduh]

1 hour ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

Aye, there are, and there are total arseholes on both sides as well...

 

 

Methinks you missed the point.

[LogicalFallacy]

1 hour ago, florduh said:

Methinks you missed the point.

I didn't think I had missed the point?

[Bhim]

On 8/14/2019 at 5:39 PM, RealityCheck said:

Also, I wish I could go back to 2012, before the filthy politics crept into the atheist community.  Back then, the only time politics were mentioned was when Christians were trying to undermine the separation of church and state.  The specter of social justice or left vs right wasn't really upon us and if present, was nothing but faint background noise.  Of course, one cannot rewind back the clock in such a manner unless you had the power to put every atom, every particle, and every quantum state exactly where they were 7 years ago.  There is one particular person, the very first atheist friend I had, even before I joined this site who I would not lose with careless words.  She played a vital role in severing that last bit of attachment to my faith and hence how I started this journey.  I drove her away with careless words unfortunately and I would have chosen them much better with my current wisdom.  Hell, there are many people I drove away but now I see that it was an inevitable consequence of my personality and their personality. It was a rocky start indeed but still, I was at peace in the greater community then far more than I am now.

 

Hi RC. Sorry to see you go, but I do understand your reasons. I'm sure I'm one of the people with whom you have differences, but I'd like to think they are not irreconciliablen in that we could likely disagree without being disagreeable. Or to put it more succinctly, I support Donald Trump but don't derive my identity from him.

 

I likewise wish the atheist community would return to its earlier state. I remember that back then, I was two years into ex-Christianity and considered myself very liberal. My views haven't changed all that much, and yet here I am watching YouTube atheists who are staunch conservatives.

 

I hesitate to discuss too much politics at your sendoff from ex-C. I've always viewed this place as a sort of alcoholics anonymous. I may not derive my identity from the President, but unfortunately I'll always derive part of it from Jesus in the sense that I identify with not believing in him. Even my aforementioned politics derives from my eschewing of Jesus' values of compassion for strangers and larger social responsibility. So whether on ex-C or elsewhere, I doubt  I will ever stop connecting with the community of ex-Christians.

 

Yet there is something healthy about your view of this forum as a medicine. You're letting go of Jesus in a way I am not, and that's a good thing. I hope you will at least check in from time to time, but if not I wish you all the best. And hey, I'm glad you're dragging this out so that you and I can exchange any final thoughts that are on your mind.

[RealityCheck]

Well, which mod wants to do the deed and delete my profile?

[Bhim]

9 hours ago, RealityCheck said:

Well, which mod wants to do the deed and delete my profile?

Whomever does the deed, you have my best wishes!

[Eowynesque]

Best wishes RC! I'm glad you have recovered and found your tribe.

 

@ag_NO_stic I do miss your rants. I dont log in much myself, but you often challenged my thinking and I appreciate you and what you have to say. When I deconverted I thought I would find, or perhaps hoped to find, more agreement among nonbelievers. Probably a mix of wanting to be right and wanting to replace the community of the church (not that the church can agree on much). It was a real letdown at first. I have grown a lot in my little bits of time here and I am much more accepting of the fact that humans just arent great at agreeing with each other and good is not black and white as much as I would like it to be. I just try my best and hope others do the same.