Demons Are Out To Getcha!

[Guest Penny]

My friend believes he is a solder of God and that he has the power to fight the demons he sees with magical balls of energy that he conjures up from his soul. I try my best not to laugh when he's fighting these invisible creatures but sometimes you just can't help it.

 

He's not crazy, in fact he's more intelligent then me by far.. It's just that damn book has a way of tricking people into believing some really far out sh!t.

[Ouroboros]

No from what I have read of the Lion's Den debate and his site, he is a "True Christian." He clarified for you later that the hate your mother and father really applies to everyone. When Christ was teachine there were non-jews around that worshipped many other Gods and you would have to go against them as well. I am not slighting DD in any way.

He did? So he did say it applied to everyone, I must have missed it when I read his responses. That's not how I read it. Cool, then I have to go back and give him the other angle. (And between us, I don't think DD is any truer Christian than anyone else. There's nothing that can be called True Christian. It's like the Perfect Circle. It can exist in theory, but not in reality.)

 

Give me the abortion scripture you are referencing I would like to read it.

It's a combination of biology and scripture.

 

P1) a fetus doesn't produce blood until the 3rd week.

 

P2) the verse in Lev 17:11 say that the life (or soul) is in the blood.

 

C) A fetus does not have life or a soul until the 3rd week.

 

17:11

For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one's life.

 

My friend believes he is a solder of God and that he has the power to fight the demons he sees with magical balls of energy that he conjure up from his soul. I try my best not to laugh when he's fighting these invisible creatures but sometimes you just can't help it.

Watch out. When you start laughing, he might try to cast out the laughing demons from you!

[Guest Servant]

My friend believes he is a solder of God and that he has the power to fight the demons he sees with magical balls of energy that he conjures up from his soul. I try my best not to laugh when he's fighting these invisible creatures but sometimes you just can't help it.

 

He's not crazy, in fact he's more intelligent then me by far.. It's just that damn book has a way of tricking people into believing some really far out sh!t.

 

I can appreciate your not laughing, but I am. That book never mentions conjuring up magic balls from anywhere. Even I am floored at what some people believe.

 

No from what I have read of the Lion's Den debate and his site, he is a "True Christian." He clarified for you later that the hate your mother and father really applies to everyone. When Christ was teachine there were non-jews around that worshipped many other Gods and you would have to go against them as well. I am not slighting DD in any way.

He did? So he did say it applied to everyone, I must have missed it when I read his responses. That's not how I read it. Cool, then I have to go back and give him the other angle. (And between us, I don't think DD is any truer Christian than anyone else. There's nothing that can be called True Christian. It's like the Perfect Circle. It can exist in theory, but not in reality.)

 

Give me the abortion scripture you are referencing I would like to read it.

It's a combination of biology and scripture.

 

P1) a fetus doesn't produce blood until the 3rd week.

 

P2) the verse in Lev 17:11 say that the life (or soul) is in the blood.

 

C) A fetus does not have life or a soul until the 3rd week.

 

17:11

For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one's life.

 

I am with you, the "True Christian" term is over used. You either are a Christian or you aren't, either way like the "Perfect Circle", you are not perfect.

 

I am reading the scripture with everything around it before I respond to the abortion issue, but on a personal thought. Have you ever met a couple that wants to have a baby and they find out that she is pregnant but a couple of days later lose the baby. Whether it was 3 days, 3 weeks, or 3 months in, they will agree that it was a life lost.

[Angel]

Watch out. When you start laughing, he might try to cast out the laughing demons from you!

 

 

I thought of that one too... lol

I remember one time years and years ago I was at this revival. People were really getting into the "spirit" and falling out, tongues, the whole nine yards. This one woman started to hiss and claw at people. It took them over an hour to get "the demon" casted out of her. I say she was trippin on some drug or something. Ever see anything like that?

[Ouroboros]

Servant, you ever been to a meeting where they do spiritual warfare? Conjuring magic balls is far from the only weird thing that's done there. How about screaming in falsetto? Or laughing violently (supposed to be to ridicule the demonds), or running up and down the isle and swinging your arms? Been there, seen it, done it.

 

I thought of that one too... lol

I remember one time years and years ago I was at this revival. People were really getting into the "spirit" and falling out, tongues, the whole nine yards. This one woman started to hiss and claw at people. It took them over an hour to get "the demon" casted out of her. I say she was trippin on some drug or something. Ever see anything like that?

Seen it? Absolutely! The hard part is to "know" if it's part of the spiritual warfare (i.e. from the Holy Sprocket) or if it's a demon. Some "warriors" use "spiritual" tools like that to fight of the demons, so hey , it's tricky to know.

[Guest Servant]

Servant, you ever been to a meeting where they do spiritual warfare? Conjuring magic balls is far from the only weird thing that's done there. How about screaming in falsetto? Or laughing violently (supposed to be to ridicule the demonds), or running up and down the isle and swinging your arms? Been there, seen it, done it.

 

Must confess I have not been to a Spiritual Warfare Meeting, but I dare say that the support for magical balls is not in the bible. I do not disagree with you, that is strange. Kinda like snake handling, just because some people do it at church that doesn't make it scriptural.

[Angel]

Servant, you ever been to a meeting where they do spiritual warfare? Conjuring magic balls is far from the only weird thing that's done there. How about screaming in falsetto? Or laughing violently (supposed to be to ridicule the demonds), or running up and down the isle and swinging your arms? Been there, seen it, done it.

 

Seen it? Absolutely! The hard part is to "know" if it's part of the spiritual warfare (i.e. from the Holy Sprocket) or if it's a demon. Some "warriors" use "spiritual" tools like that to fight of the demons, so hey , it's tricky to know.

 

 

LOL careful, you are giving me pentecostal flash backs!!! Oh my, I remember it all... running, screaming, whoopin and hollering. It is very difficult to tell "what spirit is what" type thing when all are acting like that. One time, I shit you not, there was this one woman on her back, legs open and in the air, "giving birth" to a new experience for the church....well, gave me one too. I yelled that they were all crazy and left!!!!!

[Guest Servant]

LOL careful, you are giving me pentecostal flash backs!!! Oh my, I remember it all... running, screaming, whoopin and hollering. It is very difficult to tell "what spirit is what" type thing when all are acting like that. One time, I shit you not, there was this one woman on her back, legs open and in the air, "giving birth" to a new experience for the church....well, gave me one too. I yelled that they were all crazy and left!!!!!

 

We are still discussing what people are doing. If someone's mother teaches them to love everyone and not to kill; but they do it anyway, does that now mean she doesn't exist?

[Ouroboros]

LOL careful, you are giving me pentecostal flash backs!!! Oh my, I remember it all... running, screaming, whoopin and hollering. It is very difficult to tell "what spirit is what" type thing when all are acting like that. One time, I shit you not, there was this one woman on her back, legs open and in the air, "giving birth" to a new experience for the church....well, gave me one too. I yelled that they were all crazy and left!!!!!

Damn, this thread is freaking me out. I'm getting more flashbacks too. Yes, I've seen the birthing part, and I have other memories that I can't even speak off, I've seem some weird shit, and I don't think today it was anything spiritual at all, but just a huge mass-psychosis or something.

 

Angel, at least you were sane enough to leave. My hat goes off to you.

 

And to make a remark to an earlier post by Penny, there's a fine line between insane and genious. That someone seems to be extremely smart and intelligent, doesn't prevent this person to be a complete nutjob in other ways.

 

We are still discussing what people are doing. If someone's mother teaches them to love everyone and not to kill; but they do it anyway, does that now mean she doesn't exist?

Please elaborate.

[Angel]

 

 

We are still discussing what people are doing. If someone's mother teaches them to love everyone and not to kill; but they do it anyway, does that now mean she doesn't exist?

 

 

Now, if you are saying that the reason that I do not believe in the bible god is because of someone's actions, you are mistaken. I have seen and have been through a lot while attending church and living the life as a christian. I have left church over problems with people, yes....leaving the faith had nothing to do with anyone but me. I started to have problems with the bible and the whole christian belief system. I just simply do not believe...if you do, that is up to you.

[Guest Servant]

I am not saying you left because of that, but a majority of what is being posted is how unbelievable it is because of the insane things that people do. You are right, belief is up to each person. What is it that made you quit believing?

[Angel]

Damn, this thread is freaking me out. I'm getting more flashbacks too. Yes, I've seen the birthing part, and I have other memories that I can't even speak off, I've seem some weird shit, and I don't think today it was anything spiritual at all, but just a huge mass-psychosis or something.

 

Angel, at least you were sane enough to leave. My hat goes off to you.

 

 

Thank you.... wished I would have had the guts to do that in other places before that. Witnessed a lot of crazy shit. There was another time I was at a revival and walked out. Someone started speaking in tongues and foaming at the mouth!!! He said, "You want to see signs and wonders?" I spoke up and said, "I am seeing a sign of wonder right now!" Then he pointed me out saying that I was mocking god...blah blah blah.... that he could walk on water...blah blah blah... Then he said that he was going to pray and lay hands on everyone in the church.... I said, "You are not touching me" and walked out....along with the group I was with. It was creepy to say the very least.

 

There are things that I have done in my pentecostal, devil bashing days, that is hard for me to talk about....because of pure embarassment! I look back now and realize it was all mind games and emotionalism (sp). The mind can really play tricks on you can't it?

[Guest Servant]

I am with ya, I would have left too. That dude had apparently lost it and I would tell him that too. I don't like some versions of pentecostalism either, the Charismatic movement, I think they are weird as well. We can talk about that kind of stuff for ours because people are weird, butwhat problems do you have with the bible and the Christian belief system?

[Ouroboros]

..., butwhat problems do you have with the bible and the Christian belief system?

Hmm. Let's start with, does God exists? And if he does, how can you know this? What evidence is there to claim there is a God at all?

 

If 99% of the Bible is without any use or can't be validated, why should it then be taken prima facia, without doubt, questioning or testing? Why isn't a person allowed to be skeptical about what the Bible says?

[Guest Servant]

Why isn't a person allowed to be skeptical about what the Bible says?

 

You can be skeptical that is your right. There are historical artifacts to support the bible. Also, try reading a Case For Christ. There are many examples of the physical proof of Christ, as He is spoken of in the bible. You obviously know that I am a Christian which means you also know that I believe the bible and the Great Commission to share the gospel. You have the right to be skeptical and anything that someone tells you, you should ask for biblical backing.

 

All I am asking is, what part of the bible do you have issue with?

[Ouroboros]

You can be skeptical that is your right. There are historical artifacts to support the bible. Also, try reading a Case For Christ. There are many examples of the physical proof of Christ, as He is spoken of in the bible. You obviously know that I am a Christian which means you also know that I believe the bible and the Great Commission to share the gospel. You have the right to be skeptical and anything that someone tells you, you should ask for biblical backing.

I rather have factual backing. The physical proofs for Christ are very doubtful, which leaves the whole religion hanging on a thin thread, where all depends only on belief, and nothing on evidence. My claim is that there is no evidence for Jesus, as a person nor as a savior or god person.

 

All I am asking is, what part of the bible do you have issue with?

The claim that God exists, and that he is supposedly taking part in our daily life. There's no evidence for such to be true. And the claim that God exists, is solely a personal choice and belief, and nothing else. The Bible is nothing but a fanciful metaphor for humans seeking explanations to things they can't understand. They want the cause to the things they see, but have nothing to examine, so they invent explanations and build ideas into dogma and religion. I have no problem what-so-ever that you're a Christian, you can continue to be so, but I have no need of imagining that Santa Claus exists only because I can see Christmas trees in the winter.

[Guest Servant]

If physical proof isn't factual what is? What physical proofs of Christ are doubtful? I agree Santa isn't real, of course there is nothing to support that he was. Try reading a case for christ, I will send it to you if you'll email me your info. Read objectively and go from there.

[BenjaminHaag]

 

You can be skeptical that is your right. There are historical artifacts to support the bible. Also, try reading a Case For Christ. There are many examples of the physical proof of Christ, as He is spoken of in the bible. You obviously know that I am a Christian which means you also know that I believe the bible and the Great Commission to share the gospel. You have the right to be skeptical and anything that someone tells you, you should ask for biblical backing.

 

All I am asking is, what part of the bible do you have issue with?

 

OK, I'll play along... I assume that you mean that the aforementioned artifacts support events documented in the Bible, as opposed to the ethical teachings in it. So if you could, please name the exact artifacts to which you allude, and how, exactly, chapter-and-verse, they do what you claim.

 

Regarding your Great Sales Commission, herein, lies the (your) problem. You are approaching a community, virtual or otherwise, not as a community, not a space in which real people with real personalities and real problems and real ideas interact, but as an objective. You saw "Ex-Christian" come up in Google and probably thought, "Ah! I can go WITNESS to all these LOST PEOPLE." And most likely, you believe that what you're setting out to do is God's work, and that the threat of Hell-Fire is worth annoying people anonymously over the internet, if just one would turn, not burn. Yet you ignore the fact that by definition, a site like this pretty much presupposes a lack of interest in what you're selling...

[BenjaminHaag]

There are many examples of the physical proof of Christ, as He is spoken of in the bible.

 

And these would be...?

 

_The Case For Christ_ was written by a man who, according to Amazon.com, made a "journey from atheism to faith." Ergo it proves nothing -- for all anyone knows, the guy had some personal epiphany or brain aneurism and felt the need to justify his assumptions. Show me historical texts written with neither slant nor evangelistic agenda, and of which the aim is truth, not "witnessing," and I'll take you seriously...maybe.

 

From the blog of "Servant..."

 

I have been researching various blogs and websites out right now that are Christian based. While doing this research of course I found sites setup purely to try to discount Christianity. While I expected this there was one site in particular that broke my heart. This particular site is made up of people confessing to be former Christians.

 

I reiterate...so your purpose here is, what? Morbid curiousity about why people ditched the ideology to which you adhere? Bringing Lost Sheep back into the fold? Saving sinners from the hands of an angry God?

[Guest Servant]

Read the book not a description of it and you will understand why I say read it. It is not an epiphany book it is an anlytical/lawyer take on the proof of Christ. You are correct this site indicates that you are presupposed to a lack of interest in what I have to say. I don't use the turn and burn cliches or any of that junk I just speak from the heart with genuine concern. Aside from that it is a good way to understand peoples views as to why they think Christianity is wrong. A debate is sometimes fun, but knowledge is the key. There may be nothing I can say or do that will do anything more than annoy you, but I have to try anyway.

 

People are not an objective. I would rather hear the problem and get to the heart of the matter than continue with banter about what artifacts support. You are not an objective you are a human being that I am commanded to love, so I'm doing my best.

 

I reiterate...so your purpose here is, what? Morbid curiousity about why people ditched the ideology to which you adhere? Bringing Lost Sheep back into the fold? Saving sinners from the hands of an angry God?

 

 

I don't recall saying anything about an angry God. There is no morbid curiosity just concern. I know it is hard to believe that there are people who genuinely care about people unconditionally now, but that is where I'm at, that is why I'm here. This is not the only site I'm reviewing.

[Ouroboros]

Review of Lee Strobel's The Case for Christ

 

Why wasn't the Gospel of Judas included in the Canon? Only because it didn't fit what the mainstream Christians believed, not because that it could have been an accurate and historical document of Jesus. So how can it be claimed that only the four Gospels are the only historical depiction of Jesus, when other Gospels exists that are excluded because they're agreable? Isn't truth supposed to hurt? Are the Christians claiming truth but avoiding the it at the same time? Why isn't Gospel of Thomas included? Or Gospel of Mary of Magdalene?

[Guest Servant]

Review of Lee Strobel's The Case for Christ

 

Why wasn't the Gospel of Judas included in the Canon? Only because it didn't fit what the mainstream Christians believed, not because that it could have been an accurate and historical document of Jesus. So how can it be claimed that only the four Gospels are the only historical depiction of Jesus, when other Gospels exists that are excluded because they're agreable? Isn't truth supposed to hurt? Are the Christians claiming truth but avoiding the it at the same time? Why isn't Gospel of Thomas included? Or Gospel of Mary of Magdalene?

 

You were a hardcore Christian at one point, how was the canon decided upon?

[Ouroboros]

You were a hardcore Christian at one point, how was the canon decided upon?

Throug voting, by people that had political and personal interest in what they voted for.

 

The criteria made to match what they wanted to get, not what could be the truth. For instance, one of the conditions was "the book has to fit current belief in Christianity.", but that was 350 years later. Most of the books were written between 40 and 150, and there were 150-200 different sects of Christians. So the meaning of "current belief" was based on the few voters belief, not the thousands of people in 150 denominations. It's like Fred Phelps would dictate what is True Christian for you, and you have to obey, because of military force, or let's day Deacon Dave decided you have to read KJV1611 from now on, and if you refuse, he'll burn your Bibles and make you.

 

If the surviving sect is supposed to be the true one, why aren't you an orthodox Christian instead?

 

The whole process was nothing different to how history books are written today. The victor writes the history. Which means the truth many times are hidden, forgotten or destroyed, which was exactly what the Orthodox church did. Destroyed the gospels that didn't fit their own belief and agenda. The other 149 denominations had to bend, change, obey or die. Nice way of doing God's work.

[BenjaminHaag]

Read the book not a description of it and you will understand why I say read it. It is not an epiphany book it is an anlytical/lawyer take on the proof of Christ.

 

What is an "epiphany book?" My point was that, given that it's author is writing from the position of a person of faith, that alone renders the book highly suspect, in my mind at least, as a "proof" of what he believes. Of course he's going to exhaustively "prove" that this rock or that piece of cloth was where Jesus camped out for a night; he has an agenda to Reach the Lost.

 

You are correct this site indicates that you are presupposed to a lack of interest in what I have to say. I don't use the turn and burn cliches or any of that junk I just speak from the heart with genuine concern...

 

"Concern," because you believe that people who would gather under the virtual umbrella of "Ex-Christian" are prima facie a) bound for Hell, unhappy, c) all the above?

 

Speaking entirely for myself, your flavor of "concern" is what I approached this site to get away from and blow of steam about...so you'll excuse the absence of a warm welcome.

 

but I have to try anyway.

 

...and a mere 20 words later...

 

People are not an objective.

 

Have to try because what, you're bucking for a Merit Badge? Because you just have to see total strangers, about whom you know nothing, feel the same potentially self-delusional joy you feel?

 

I would rather hear the problem and get to the heart of the matter than continue with banter about what artifacts support.

 

This is gibberish...what "problem?" The heart of what matter? You stated that there are hisrotical artifacts that "support the Bible." I asked you to name them and to back up this assertion. This is not "banter," it is backing up your statements with fact, which, if you are neither willing nor able to do, earns you zero credibility...

 

You are not an objective you are a human being that I am commanded to love, so I'm doing my best.

 

Now there's a warm fuzzy feeling for ya..."I'm commanded to love you." Remind me to try that one out on my girlfriend later...

 

News flash, "Servant" who pontificates about love from the safe distance of anonymity...to this particular motherfucker, "love" is earned. "Love" means someone who has earned my trust and who has let me earn his or hers. Some anonymous person who says his (or her) God commands him to love strangers, however the fuck you can command anyone to love anything, is a parody of what it claims to be.

 

I don't recall saying anything about an angry God. There is no morbid curiosity just concern. I know it is hard to believe that there are people who genuinely care about people unconditionally now, but that is where I'm at, that is why I'm here. This is not the only site I'm reviewing.

 

"Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" was a famous sermon by a famous asshole, Johnathan Edwards, a man who arguably spawned generations of fire-and-brimstone fearmongers who dedicated their lives to manuipulating people's fears and ignorance. My reference was purely facetious.

[Ouroboros]

Servant, since you have studied the "evidence" of Jesus existence. Tell me how is the dating done on the physical objects? Do they use Carbon dating that Creationists claim are false and give wrong answers? Or is it done through revelation from God?