bornagainathiest Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 We (the Ex-Christian and non Christian members) patiently wait for the Christians to re-appear in the Den. . . . SUBJECTIVE MORALITY : A CASE IN POINT The Redneck Prof patiently waits for End3 to answer his questions about subjective morality, first put to End on 31 Dec, repeated twice more on that day, repeated on Jan 4 and then twice more on Jan 5. AN APPEAL FOR JUSTUS The Redneck Prof patiently waits for Justus to discuss evolution (not abiogenesis) with him, having first asked on 31 Dec (three times) and then again on Jan 2, 5 and 7. THE FAITH PROBLEM The Redneck Prof patiently waits for Ordinaryclay to cite the hard data he uses to formulate his Teleological argument. THE OMNIPOTENCE OF GOD Ficino patiently waits for Ordinaryclay to respond to his criticism of Molinism. ORDINARYCLAY : DISHONEST AND CONFUSED Ficino patiently waits for Ordinaryclay to respond to him in this thread. KEEPING END3 HONEST (End's got me on ignore - so I cannot patiently wait for anything from him.) I patiently wait for End3 to retract and/or apologize for the false and misleading comment he made on Jan 4 about this site supporting his engagement with other members in discussion and debate. However, if he is a man of integrity and honesty, he should do the right thing and retract his comment and/or apologize to the members of this forum for posting this false information. SUBJECTIVE MORALITY : A CASE IN POINT I patiently wait for 1AcceptingAthiest1 (a.k.a. A1 Steak sauce) to respond to my Jan 9 post which destroyed his justification of God ordering the Israelites to eradicate the Amalekites. . . . We all patiently wait for Ironhorse to specify exactly what body of empirical (i.e., non-scriptural) evidence he uses to support his faith - so that we may examine and question it. . . . And so we wait. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ crazyguy123 ◊ Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 And so we wait... until everyone currently using these forums have grown old and died, leaving behind a generation who is waiting for the same answers to the same questions from different believers, with no results. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherJosh Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 And so we wait... until everyone currently using these forums have grown old and died, leaving behind a generation who is waiting for the same answers to the same questions from different believers drawn from an ever decreasing pool of believers, with no results. I amended your post a little. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted January 13, 2015 Super Moderator Share Posted January 13, 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8E_zMLCRNg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted January 13, 2015 Super Moderator Share Posted January 13, 2015 end3 is taking a break to tend to real life. He may be back when he's ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 Thanks for head's up, guys! I've been PM'ed with relevant info about End3, who is taking a break from Ex-C - to return...? Therefore... SUBJECTIVE MORALITY : A CASE IN POINT The Redneck Prof patiently waits for End3 to answer his questions about subjective morality, first put to End on 31 Dec, repeated twice more on that day, repeated on Jan 4 and then twice more on Jan 5. KEEPING END3 HONEST (End's got me on ignore - so I cannot patiently wait for anything from him.) I patiently wait for End3 to retract and/or apologize for the false and misleading comment he made on Jan 4 about this site supporting his engagement with other members in discussion and debate. However, if he is a man of integrity and honesty, he should do the right thing and retract his comment and/or apologize to the members of this forum for posting this false information. Thanks, BAA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Furball Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8E_zMLCRNg classic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Furball Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 And so we wait... until everyone currently using these forums have grown old and died, leaving behind a generation who is waiting for the same answers to the same questions from different believers, with no results. Amen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 So how many souls have these Christians saved by being here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Furball Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 The bible tells them not to be associating with us anyways, so i am not sure why they claim to be christians and yet disobey their "master" and come on here anyways. Hypocrites indeed.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucy Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 THE OMNIPOTENCE OF GOD Ficino patiently waits for Ordinaryclay to respond to his criticism of Molinism. I looked up Molinism. I am unfamiliar with it. It looks like the idea is that god knows what decisions we will make under certain circumstances so he causes the circumstance to occur under which we will make the decision that god wants us to make. Is that accurate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 ^^^^^^ Hi Lucy, in a nutshell, yes, that's correct. It was a way for the Jesuits to try to keep "free will" and to keep "God's sovereignty." Centuries later, Alvin Plantinga, then Wm. Lane Craig and buddies picked it up. To go into details would hijack this thread and would belong on another thread. Plus, it would be sort of a bore. But anyway, in brief: I think one big problem is that Molinism is unscriptural. The Dominicans, following St. Thomas Aquinas and others, pointed this out. The Calvinists go even further. There is no "free will" taught in scripture. The most OC was able to provide were verses that present choices. But from "God gives you a choice between doing P and not doing P" it does not follow, without auxiliary assumptions, that God does NOT predetermine the choice you make. The bible doesn't supply the auxiliary assumptions needed to prove that free will is a biblical concept. Second, Molinism has a problem with the identity of the "we" in the description you supply above. The Lucy who chose to write a post about Molinism on this thread is not identical with the counterpart of Lucy, in a counterfactual "world," who chose not to write a post about Molinism. That's because not all that is true of the one is true of the other. But the two need to be identical for the Molinist argument to go through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 THE OMNIPOTENCE OF GOD Ficino patiently waits for Ordinaryclay to respond to his criticism of Molinism. I looked up Molinism. I am unfamiliar with it. It looks like the idea is that god knows what decisions we will make under certain circumstances so he causes the circumstance to occur under which we will make the decision that god wants us to make. Is that accurate? Have you seen Men In Black 3? The knowledge powers that Griffin ("This is my new favorite moment in history . . . ") had are a lot like dogma of Molinism for God. The idea is bloated, convoluted, contradictory, along with a bunch of other problems Ordinary Clay never sticks around to talk about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Furball Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 And so we wait... until everyone currently using these forums have grown old and died, leaving behind a generation who is waiting for the same answers to the same questions from different believers, with no results. Been going on for a while now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucy Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Ficino and mymistake, thank you for your explanations. I can see a view issues with this concept too. I think we shall wait forever for answers to these questions.... hm... I'm picturing that now as a song parody for Hallelujah Chorus... "And we shall wait forever and ever!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ crazyguy123 ◊ Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 And so we wait... until everyone currently using these forums have grown old and died, leaving behind a generation who is waiting for the same answers to the same questions from different believers drawn from an ever decreasing pool of believers, with no results. I amended your post a little. Ah, that sounds so much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ crazyguy123 ◊ Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 We could go to some Xian sites and try to recruit some Xians to visit the Den. But we should specify some qualifications, such as people who actually endeavor to think for themselves... This does not seem like the most constructive thing to do; if anything, it might be more destructive than anything else. It would look to them as though we are asking them to set foot into hostile territory, just so we can rip their arguments apart. We would then be reinforcing the idea that us unbelievers "hate 'God' and Christians". We would be feeding their persecution complex. The best thing to do would be to leave them alone and just help the doubters who show up here, looking for answers other than what Christians have to offer, like we always have done. If the Christians that find us want to leap right into the Den, then we should by all means let them and put their "product" under the microscope, to show the doubters and newbies all of the flaws it contains. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted January 14, 2015 Super Moderator Share Posted January 14, 2015 THE OMNIPOTENCE OF GOD Ficino patiently waits for Ordinaryclay to respond to his criticism of Molinism. I looked up Molinism. I am unfamiliar with it. It looks like the idea is that god knows what decisions we will make under certain circumstances so he causes the circumstance to occur under which we will make the decision that god wants us to make. Is that accurate? Which is just an overly complicated way of demonstrating that we don't, in fact, have free will where god is concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 OC is in chat, so I took the opportunity to remind him about TRP and Ficino's questions in 3 threads, by copying and pasting from the OP to chat. His lame response: "I've responded to many things in this forum over the years. I posted a link. If you want to see what I have to say search on my userid." and "I have a life. I don't spend much time online over all, and I get bored with the repeat questions. I understand better than you think. There is nothing said or asked here I have not heard many times before. Honestly do you really think there is much genuine discussion going on in these threads." (What happens in chat stays in chat but I waived that rule here because christ-tard OC owes TRP and Ficino some responses, and only came in to chat to proselytise/troll). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ crazyguy123 ◊ Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 OC is in chat, so I took the opportunity to remind him about TRP and Ficino's questions in 3 threads, by copying and pasting from the OP to this thread. His lame response: "I've responded to many things in this forum over the years. I posted a link. If you want to see what I have to say search on my userid." and "I have a life. I don't spend much time online over all, and I get bored with the repeat questions. I understand better than you think. There is nothing said or asked here I have not heard many times before. Honestly do you really think there is much genuine discussion going on in these threads." (What happens in chat stays in chat but I waived that rule here because christ-tard OC owes TRP and Ficino some responses, and only came in to chat to proselytise/troll). Lol, if what OC said was true, he'd be spending what little time he does spend online elsewhere, instead of here, making a bunch of claims, knowing full-well that he will be asked questions about what he's claiming, and then making excuses when he decides to no longer participate because he can't be arsed to put effort into defending his position. Of course there isn't genuine discussion in most of the threads in the Den. Most of the Christians that show up on our doorstep are not interested in such conversation, as they are only here to annoy us or scare us back to their cult, with negative results. If he gets bored with the repeat questions, then he should stop making repeat claims without backing them up with something more than biased propaganda that suits his agenda. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted January 14, 2015 Author Share Posted January 14, 2015 Ordinaryclay claims that he... doesn't spend much time online overall. . . . Yet, he has been very active here at Ex-C and also very active across the rest of the internet. He's made at least 3,717 posts at reasonablefaith.org, since 24 Oct 2009. Also many posts at these sites... atheismplus.com reddit.com rationalresponders.com commonsenseatheism.com unexplained-mysteries.com sandwichesforsale.blogspot christianforums.com romans120.wordpress.com ...and many other posts at several now-defunct forums. So how can he have posted so much, to so many sites - yet not spend much time online overall..? . . . The answer can be found by examined the wording of his claim, v-e-r-y carefully. He doesn't spend much time online... overall ...because he makes very short posts and replies. Therefore, the amount of... elapsed time ...he spends online doesn't amount to much. . . . Clever, huh? . . . Please take note, my friends. This is the kind of cunning, slipperiness and dishonesty that you should expect from Ordinaryclay . . . DO NOT TRUST THIS SNAKE AT ALL...! Thanks, BAA. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ crazyguy123 ◊ Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Ordinaryclay claims that he... doesn't spend much time online overall. . . . Yet, he has been very active here at Ex-C and also very active across the rest of the internet. He's made at least 3,717 posts at reasonablefaith.org, since 24 Oct 2009. Also many posts at these sites... atheismplus.com reddit.com rationalresponders.com commonsenseatheism.com unexplained-mysteries.com sandwichesforsale.blogspot christianforums.com romans120.wordpress.com ...and many other posts at several now-defunct forums. So how can he have posted so much, to so many sites - yet not spend much time online overall..? . . . The answer can be found by examined the wording of his claim, v-e-r-y carefully. He doesn't spend much time online... overall ...because he makes very short posts and replies. Therefore, the amount of... elapsed time ...he spends online doesn't amount to much. . . . Clever, huh? . . . Please take note, my friends. This is the kind of cunning, slipperiness and dishonesty that you should expect from Ordinaryclay . . . DO NOT TRUST THIS SNAKE AT ALL...! Thanks, BAA. So, it was just as I thought. He really is a lying salesman for Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbit Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 From my interactions with him in chat, OC is a one-trick pony. He spent about a half hour shifting the burden of proof as his only strategy. "Prove that God doesn't exist!" "Prove that there is no life after death!". Sometimes I think what he does is really just a very specialized form of Spam. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 . And so we wait. Really the only thing that will do the trick is for these Christians to see the light and lose their faith. Nothing short of that will make them honest. They have taken a pack of lies and built their world view on top of it. Christians can't be honest about matters of faith because doing so kills their faith. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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