Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted June 14, 2017 Moderator Share Posted June 14, 2017 As far as the human race falling in Adam, that is the best thing God could do for mankind. Because it fell in one man, representative, then it can be redeemed in One Man, Jesus Christ. Think about this - think about what you are saying. This is the "Best". You have an all powerful, all knowing, all loving god, and this is the "best"? At best it makes your God an incompetent bumbling moron. At worst he intentionally sets humanity up to fail then punishes them for eternity when they do fail... making God an evil sadistic psychopath. By the way Stranger - I'm not sure if I clarified this with you or someone else. Is Genesis 1-9 factual history or allegory? Was Adam real, was there actually a Garden of Eden with a tree with fruit and a talking snake? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 I don't know. Ask them. My purpose is to discuss with 'ex-christians' what I believe the Bible is saying. Stanger So, you don't know whether anyone here cares what you believe,and apparently don't care one way or the other. I also learn that you "believe" proselytizing equates with discussion. You're a funny guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutrichuckles93 Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 It's always funny when someone pulls out the "God is the author" card. Lol, God didn't write this shit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stranger Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Think about this - think about what you are saying. This is the "Best". You have an all powerful, all knowing, all loving god, and this is the "best"? At best it makes your God an incompetent bumbling moron. At worst he intentionally sets humanity up to fail then punishes them for eternity when they do fail... making God an evil sadistic psychopath. By the way Stranger - I'm not sure if I clarified this with you or someone else. Is Genesis 1-9 factual history or allegory? Was Adam real, was there actually a Garden of Eden with a tree with fruit and a talking snake? Indeed, I believe this was the best thing God could do. The fall was as much a part of what God was doing as the creation of Adam and the death of Jesus Christ. It was necessary to produce His sons, and have sons that were formed in the crucible of suffering and sin and redeemption. But then to be as righteous as God. Yes, I believe Genesis 1-9 is real history. Stranger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stranger Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 So, you don't know whether anyone here cares what you believe,and apparently don't care one way or the other. I also learn that you "believe" proselytizing equates with discussion. You're a funny guy. No, I don't know. Like I said, you can ask them. Stranger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 No, I don't know. Like I said, you can ask them. Stranger Perhaps you should consider asking yourself. Here, let me help: "Hey Ex-Christians on this forum, do any of you care what I believe?" All you have to do is copy and paste. I suspect you will receive responses. Isn't education great? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stranger Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Perhaps you should consider asking yourself. Here, let me help: "Hey Ex-Christians on this forum, do any of you care what I believe?" All you have to do is copy and paste. I suspect you will receive responses. Isn't education great? If none care why is this 'Lions Den' offered? Stranger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 If none care why is this 'Lions Den' offered? Stranger Stick around. You'll find out why. Then again, perhaps you won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stranger Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Stick around. You'll find out why. Then again, perhaps you won't. I will try. Gotta go for now. Stranger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 I will try. Gotta go for now. Stranger Cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ crazyguy123 ◊ Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 I doubt Adam and Eve did understand what all death meant. They didn't understand fully that until they saw the body of Abel after Cain killed him. But they did understand they were not to eat of the tree. God didn't want them to obey because 'all hell may break lose'. God wanted them to obey simply because He said so. So, it wasn't necessary that they know the full implications of what they were doing. Well, as I said, it wasnt' a set up in that they knew God's will in this matter. Adam and Eve were not toddlers. They were mature and perfect, without sin. It was a set up in that it was part of God's overall plan. Stranger So it was God's plan then for them to eat the tree and bring sin and death into the world? If it was part of his overall plan, then Adam and Eve were merely pawns, designed to serve a purpose. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutrichuckles93 Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Damn it, I used up all my likes for today. These three threads Stranger has been posting in have left me with too many posts by Citsonga and sdelsolray I want to like. I enjoy your posts, fellas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted June 14, 2017 Moderator Share Posted June 14, 2017 Yes, I believe Genesis 1-9 is real history. Ok. To clarify, you are a 6,000 year old, literal 6 day creationist? If so are you willing to examine if what you believe is actually grounded in reality? At this point rather than discussing Adam, Eve and Steve (I call the serpent Steve) we should probably discuss Genesis 1:1. Anyhow... "Indeed, I believe this was the best thing God could do." Why would you want to then worship a god that is less wise, loving and moral than that which he created? IF that's the best god could do? Judge ALL of humanity for Adam and Eves mistake after intentionally setting them up to fail? Who created evil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 No. They did die. Immediately they were spiritually dead. Separated from God. Physically death now worked in them as a disease that would later cause their demise. But, the snake, satan, lied to them, in saying they would not die. They did. Which is why you and I die today. God didn't lie. He told them they would die. And they did. That He added a curse upon the serpent who was used by satan, and pain in child birth, and a curse upon the earth resulting in pain in work, doesn't take away that God was correct in what He said. I don't understand your last statement. It seems to assume many things. Stranger Again, the text does not say spiritual death, nor does it refer to the serpent as Satan. Those are LATER concepts. Physically dying more than 900 years later doesn't quite fit the warning, either. As far as the last statement, research the evolution of the character Satan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 When it says 'a new spirit' that means in place of the old spirit. How can there be a 'new' if ther wasn't an old? Stranger Read it in context: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel+18&version=KJV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 So it was God's plan then for them to eat the tree and bring sin and death into the world? If it was part of his overall plan, then Adam and Eve were merely pawns, designed to serve a purpose. All this pretend fantasy is comical. The actual evidence demonstrates homo sapiens' genealogy does not flow from a common and contemporaneous last known common ancestral pair. Facts are a bitch, at least when pretending. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 I disagree. The Bible is not a book written by people of different religions. And, nothing was borrowed from 'other myths'. You ignore that God is the Author. Thus, He has no problem revealing exactly what He wants to, to add to His Book. Stranger It's not me ignoring god as the author. It's you assuming that god is the author. I get it, though; I made the same assumption back when I was also brainwashed with Christianity. The Bible writers were from different religions. The OT was written by Hebrews/Jews, not Christians like the NT. And there are influences from other religions in the Bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Indeed, I believe this was the best thing God could do. The fall was as much a part of what God was doing as the creation of Adam and the death of Jesus Christ. It was necessary to produce His sons, and have sons that were formed in the crucible of suffering and sin and redeemption. But then to be as righteous as God. Yes, I believe Genesis 1-9 is real history. Stranger A clarification please, Stranger. You believe that Genesis 1 - 9 is an accurate account of real human history? Are you therefore a Young Earth Creationist? An Old Earth Creationist? A supporter of the Day-Age notion of Biblical history? Please specify. Thanks, BAA. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 ... Yes, I believe Genesis 1-9 is real history. Stranger Perhaps some day you will take the time to compile, review and consider the actual empirical evidence concerning that time in history, with objectivity and intellectual honesty, removing all expectation and confirmation biases, and putting aside whatever religious indoctrination and related peer pressure to which you have been exposed. Perhaps. It would likely take 1,000+- hours of your time to make a personal and meaningful dent in the data and related rational analysis, and that should be enough time to make some tentative yet reasonable conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted June 14, 2017 Moderator Share Posted June 14, 2017 A clarification please, Stranger. You believe that Genesis 1 - 9 is an accurate account of real human history? Are you therefore a Young Earth Creationist? An Old Earth Creationist? A supporter of the Day-Age notion of Biblical history? Please specify. Thanks, BAA. I am God. (Claim) How do I know this? Because as I saw Strangers answer to my question about Genesis 1-9 I knew BAA was going to post - hence my reference to Genesis 1:1 Is this good evidence for my claim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 I am God. (Claim) How do I know this? Because as I saw Strangers answer to my question about Genesis 1-9 I knew BAA was going to post - hence my reference to Genesis 1:1 Is this good evidence for my claim? No, that's only evidence you are a Prophet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted June 15, 2017 Moderator Share Posted June 15, 2017 No, that's only evidence you are a Prophet. Come now brother, you are not playing the game I'll settle for 100% accurate prophet then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Come now brother, you are not playing the game I'll settle for 100% accurate prophet then. You can only graduate to a sky fairy once you've done all of the following (i) obtained a verifiable True Believer, (ii) smited at least 100 non-believers and (iii) got chuckleheads to give you at least $1,000,000. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted June 15, 2017 Moderator Share Posted June 15, 2017 You can only graduate to a sky fairy once you've done all of the following (i) obtained a verifiable True Believer, (ii) smited at least 100 non-believers and (iii) got chuckleheads to give you at least $1,000,000. Come now - your standards are too high. You wouldn't apply that to the claim that Julius Caesar was Emperor. i) and ii) are easily doable, iii) requires some financial savviness which is sadly lacking with my True Believers (TM) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stranger Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 They say nothing about spiritual birth. The first one does warn of dying in their transgressions. It does not describe that as a spiritual death. It just says death, as in d-e-a-d. Of courses they do. They speak of a new spirit, which means the other was indeed damaged. Dead to God. Stranger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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