All Gods Fail Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 What happens in your brain, cannot be what happens in anyone else's brain, has no bearing on what happens in anyone else's brain, and therefore loses any and all law-like characteristics. I'm starting to become embarrassed for this guy. Please, no more - it's becoming sad. Does anyone ever actually convert because of this spiel? Or is it more like preaching to the choir? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunar Shadow Posted October 12, 2006 Author Share Posted October 12, 2006 Awww shucks. I was hoping for a reply to my last post. Canuckfish, you cited the Bible as a basis for belief in God, and I cited the Organon as a basis for belief in the laws of logic. Am I to take your silence as a concession of the point? But perhaps you haven't gotten to it yet. Here's my post again for the sake of convenience. well I have asked him to reply to my post atleast 3 tiems (the post is back at least 3 pages by now) he is just stonewalling but if he cannot answer we win by default because of his refusal to participate. I asked him a simple question and he can't even answer that WTF? so I will put up my post again this is the exchange I am refering to it is on page 4 Typical apologist tactic of moving the goal posts you have yet to state that the evolution that took place had to change species... It didn't?!? News to me. Show me Sye come on show me where you said that The expample of evolution that I needed to provide had to be from one species to an other. Oh wait you never did, you just asked for an example of observable evolution thats all you said and thats what I provided. So either you have no clue what you are saying, you are just moving the goal posts, or you don't know what the hell evolution is. None of wich would surprise me all that much. And to this point he has yet to reply.... whats the matter Sye you can't cop to it that you never actually gave the stipulations that you claim you did or are you afraid to admit you were wrong?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 What happens in your brain, cannot be what happens in anyone else's brain, has no bearing on what happens in anyone else's brain, and therefore loses any and all law-like characteristics.Double or nothing, kid. That means that all experiences, including religious ones, are subjective and incompatible at some level. Therefore the Bible is not and can never become "truth" because it was imagined and composed and edited by different human brains. Your own definition has made "Biblical law" an oxymoron. Thanks, Astreja, you took the words right out of my mouth. Canuckfish, the strategy of trying to kindle the fires of epistemological doubt and then quench them with TAG is hopeless, so give it up. One thing that's certain even by your own principles is that a system that contains mutually contradictory statements is not free of error. The Bible contradicts itself and therefore is not free of error. So let's drop it, shall we? If you're going to say that the contradictions are only apparent and that they disappear when the Bible is interpreted correctly, then you and everyone else are lost together in the swamp of varying interpretations, hermeneutical problems, etc. etc. which lead to the conclusion that the Bible is not perspicuous. So it's useless. So let's drop it. You also confuse the mountain with how we talk about the mountain. Physical laws do not have the same epistemic status as the laws of thought, by which we frame statements of physical law and any other significant discourse. (I don't have enough physics to tackle the question, whether A and not-A can be asserted in the same respects under the same set of relations of something at the quantum level, but I've been told, "not really.") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 If you're going to say that the contradictions are only apparent and that they disappear when the Bible is interpreted correctly, then you and everyone else are lost together in the swamp of varying interpretations, hermeneutical problems, etc. etc. which lead to the conclusion that the Bible is not perspicuous. So it's useless. So let's drop it. You also confuse the mountain with how we talk about the mountain. Physical laws do not have the same epistemic status as the laws of thought, by which we frame statements of physical law and any other significant discourse. (I don't have enough physics to tackle the question, whether A and not-A can be asserted in the same respects under the same set of relations of something at the quantum level, but I've been told, "not really.") Great job, Ficino. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunar Shadow Posted October 13, 2006 Author Share Posted October 13, 2006 Thanks, Astreja, you took the words right out of my mouth. Canuckfish, the strategy of trying to kindle the fires of epistemological doubt and then quench them with TAG is hopeless, so give it up. One thing that's certain even by your own principles is that a system that contains mutually contradictory statements is not free of error. The Bible contradicts itself and therefore is not free of error. So let's drop it, shall we? If you're going to say that the contradictions are only apparent and that they disappear when the Bible is interpreted correctly, then you and everyone else are lost together in the swamp of varying interpretations, hermeneutical problems, etc. etc. which lead to the conclusion that the Bible is not perspicuous. So it's useless. So let's drop it. You also confuse the mountain with how we talk about the mountain. Physical laws do not have the same epistemic status as the laws of thought, by which we frame statements of physical law and any other significant discourse. (I don't have enough physics to tackle the question, whether A and not-A can be asserted in the same respects under the same set of relations of something at the quantum level, but I've been told, "not really.") so simple but so true Finco sometimes we have a tendency to over analize thigns when the answer is so apparent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunar Shadow Posted October 16, 2006 Author Share Posted October 16, 2006 Well its been 4 days now I guess he took his ball and ran home with tears in his eyes because his god didn't help him win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkepticOfBible Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 It is because of the annoying Christian Missionaries like Canuckfish, that I had developed my challenge. His christian theology shatters in face of the obvious truth - JESUS WAS NOT THE JEWISH MESSIAH and CHRISTIANITY IS NOT OFFSHOOT OF JUDAISM. There is your absolute reality. If you disagree, care to take up my challenge(in my signature) to prove the scriptural soundness of your faith? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 It is because of the annoying Christian Missionaries like Canuckfish, that I had developed my challenge. His christian theology shatters in face of the obvious truth - JESUS WAS NOT THE JEWISH MESSIAH and CHRISTIANITY IS NOT OFFSHOOT OF JUDAISM. There is your absolute reality. If you disagree, care to take up my challenge(in my signature) to prove the scriptural soundness of your faith? Skeptic...I have a question regarding contemporary sources. Now, I've been enclosed in some dialogue over at this forum about Jesus being an actual historical character. They claim that the existence of people who had firsthand knowledge of Jesus martyred themselves for their cause and wouldn't have died for what they knew was true. My question is, do we have any sources which corroborate the existence of the Apostles? Paul claimed he met with Peter...and then both of them were executed by Nero. What are the sources of information for that event? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 My question is, do we have any sources which corroborate the existence of the Apostles? Paul claimed he met with Peter...and then both of them were executed by Nero. What are the sources of information for that event? If I might butt-in here. The only source that I can think of for this event comes from Severus: Chronicle 2.29.1-4a : In the meantime, the number of the Christians being now very large, it happened that Rome was destroyed by fire while Nero was stationed at Antium. But the opinion of all cast the odium of causing the fire upon the emperor, and the emperor was believed in this way to have sought for the glory of building a new city. And in fact, Nero could not by any means that he tried escape from the charge that the fire had been caused by his orders. He therefore turned the accusation against the Christians, and the most cruel tortures were accordingly inflicted upon the innocent. Nay, even new kinds of death were invented, so that, being covered in the skins of wild beasts, they perished by being devoured by dogs, while many were crucified or slain by fire, and not a few were set apart for this purpose, that, when the day came to a close, they should be consumed to serve for light during the night. It was in this way that cruelty first began to be manifested against the Christians. Afterward, too, their religion was prohibited by laws which were given, and by edicts openly set forth it was proclaimed unlawful to be a Christian. At that time Paul and Peter were condemned to capital punishment, of whom the one was beheaded with a sword, while Peter suffered crucifixion. Here's a couple of links that can give you some background info, though, not directly related to the topic at hand: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulpicius_Severus http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/ric...ier/laupot.html mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunar Shadow Posted October 18, 2006 Author Share Posted October 18, 2006 Well its been a week since he has responed but he has been online (he was online today according to the board) but I guess that he has no answers for any of our qestions so he just can't post.. Come on sye I really want you to answer the question you keep dodging form me.... it isn't that hard just say that you never did and we can move on. if not you are only deciving yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkepticOfBible Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Skeptic...I have a question regarding contemporary sources. Now, I've been enclosed in some dialogue over at this forum about Jesus being an actual historical character. They claim that the existence of people who had firsthand knowledge of Jesus martyred themselves for their cause and wouldn't have died for what they knew was true. Ok, if that was the case, then ask them to name those sources? What books did they write? Pointing to the Gospels as eyewitness account is a bad example simply because 1)They are anonymous writings 2)They were part of the series of pseudepigraphical christian writings that emerged in the early Christian community. pseudepigraphic means to write under a ficitious name. Pseudepigraphic writing was particularly popular among the Jews during Hashmonean and Roman periods. If the christian still insist they were written by the apostle, you can straight away ask them whether the think that the Gospel of Barnabas, Gospel of Thomas and Gospel of Judas were written by Barnabas, Thomas and Judas? Paul Toubin has some excellent article which deals with this claim Rebuttal to common assertions The Twelve Apostles My question is, do we have any sources which corroborate the existence of the Apostles? Paul claimed he met with Peter...and then both of them were executed by Nero. What are the sources of information for that event? I am not a really history expert, and I can best guide you to articles that were written by others. You may have to check the sources and rebuttals made by Christians to those articles. Make sure you pick up a coffee for these articles http://www.sullivan-county.com/news/mine/jesus_myth.htm]Myth of the Historical Veracity of Jesus[/url] Silence of Contemporary Writers Fame of Jesus Also check out this list of articles where a lot of Skeptics answer to J P Holding assertions about the historicity of the bible TEKTONICS.ORG: EXPOSED! Mythra would also have some more information with regards to this Usually when I deal with historical issues, I ask Christians to produce extra biblical information about the following 3 large scale events described in the bible 1)The earthquake and the zombies coing out their graves as decribed in Matt 27:50-53. As a side note you ask the Christian why is it that only Matt managed to record this fantastic event, and how did it escape the notice of the great historian of Luke. 2)The solar ecilpse during Jesus's crucification 3)Herod's decree about the killing of Jewish babies. The Jews managed to write about a good number of attrocities commited against them, one would expect they would not forget this one. Also none of the non-jewish historians wrote about him 4)The unique census of Quirinius where the citizens were asked to go to the home town and to the town of their ancestors. Such a census would never been issued by the Roman empire Check out the following thread in another forum where we discussed about problem with Jesus's birth. http://www.achristianandanatheist.com/phpB...topic.php?t=154 In the thread a lot of Christians attempted to rebut with standard apologetics, but the skeptics won ultimately Although the historicity of the Jesus christ is a important topic, but personally to me it is secondary issue, simply because he was not the Jewish Messiah. Just because some people died because they believed that Jesus was the messiah, doesn't make him one. Hope that helps Skeptic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkepticOfBible Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Hey Asimov(and others) I also found the following two article which describe the inaccuracies of the working of Jewish Courts during the trial of Jesus. The Trial Before the Sanhedrin Decide: The execution of Jesus Enjoy Skeptic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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