The Qur'an

[Jun]

Antlerman, you know what, my Assyrian Christian friends claim that passage is in their version of the bible and they believe it happened!

What about the rest of the book? Do they believe Jesus murdered that little kid because he bumped into his shoulder accidently? Also from a Christian apologists point of view, doesn't the Gospel of John say, "This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilie" when he turned the water into wine at the age of 30? (John 2:11) From a Chrisitan's perspective isn't that a contradiction?

 

I don't know about the rest. But the clay sparrows part is in the Assyrian version they tell me. They also believe that it was one of Jesus' miracles that was omitted from the other versions of the bible.

[nick5]

The more I progress with this filthy book, the more I realize that Islam is completely based on fear and almost nothing else. allah loves those who fear him. Fear allah, or you will dwell in the fire. Muslims must have completely MISERABLE lives, though I know no muslim will ever admit it. Islam is the absolute WORSE ideology to base your life on.

It isn't true that islam is a religion of love, that it's a religion of peace. Those are complete lies.

[Jun]

The more I progress with this filthy book, the more I realize that Islam is completely based on fear and almost nothing else. allah loves those who fear him. Fear allah, or you will dwell in the fire. Muslims must have completely MISERABLE lives, though I know no muslim will ever admit it. Islam is the absolute WORSE ideology to base your life on.

It isn't true that islam is a religion of love, that it's a religion of peace. Those are complete lies.

 

Would you mind, if at all, could you post here some of the offending text?

[nick5]

It,s mostly stuff like "misbelievers are the fellows of the fire and they shall dwell therein for aye". They repeat that stuff over and over. Kill the misbelievers weherever you find them.

When I started, I thought I'd write the word "intolerance" in the margin of the book every time I'd find an offensive page, but I quickly gave up because it was slowing me down so much!!

 

It's not just intolerant stuff though, theres some sexist stuff too. Here's another offensive verse:

"They will ask thee about menstruation: say, "It is a hurt". So keep apart from women in their mentruation, and go not near them till they be cleansed; but when they are cleansed come in to them by where allah has ordered you; verily, allah loves those who turn to him, and those who keep themselves clean".

 

(Women are sex toys, but once a month they're dirty and you shouldn't touch them until they're clean.)

 

"Your women are your tilth, so come into your tillage how you choose; but do a previous good act for yourselves, and fear allah (why the hell would he be so insecure that he'd want people to fear him, I thought he was all powerful) and know that ye are going to meet him; and give good tiding unto those who do believe."

 

I don't think there's such a thing as "love" in a couple in the muslim world, at least not in the same way it exists in the civilized world. It is clear in the quran that women are lesser beings than men, they are little more than property.

[Jun]

So, it's all the same as the stuff in the bible pretty much then!

 

Thanks for those tidbits.

 

And they say that Allah is peace!

 

While growing up there was a Muslim family a few houses up from my house. I remember once that someone visited their house in the evening, and the wife had answered the door thinking it was one of her sons coming home. The husband found out that someone had seen his wife after 6pm, and so he bashed her in the street.

[nick5]

Yeah its pretty much like the bible but it seems worse to me... probably because it's really hateful right from the beginning, and it won't let you forget even for a minute that all non muslims are evil and will be tortured forever by the master of peace

 

While growing up there was a Muslim family a few houses up from my house. I remember once that someone visited their house in the evening, and the wife had answered the door thinking it was one of her sons coming home. The husband found out that someone had seen his wife after 6pm, and so he bashed her in the street.

 

That's sick, but it makes sense to them because the quran really does support that kind of behavior. I mean women are objects so who cares

[Grandpa Harley]

There are liberal Islamics, since I know quite a few... and some Sufi sects regard it as heavy handed allegory... but then the Sufis I know spend a lot of time avoiding geting slotted by local secret police in their countries of residence, due to the fact they're regarded as dangerous heretics... it's hard to get a Sufi to kill anyone for Allah...

[perianwalsh]

My library got the gospel of Jesus-specially for muslims....And about the quran-is there any interesting chapters in it? I need to start with interesting chapters first for i have some trouble reading arabian literature

[Thurisaz]

(I could swear I've posted in this thread before, but can't see anything. Oh well.)

 

Da babble, da koran, same shit, different arsehole. If anything the koran is even more open about the sadism and bloodthirst of its gawd than da babble.

Doesn't mean that any of the books contains only crap. Just like da babble, if you select your koran verses carefully the book can be used to argue for love and peace. Too bad that it's far more problematic to find peaceful stuff in there than brutal stuff.

[nick5]

Just like da babble, if you select your koran verses carefully the book can be used to argue for love and peace.

 

That's true.

I was surprised to find a verse that basically said, you can be christian or jew or pagan and still get into heaven, as long as your heart is pure or something like that (cant find the exact words again because I didnt highlight them). Of course this is in contradiction with the hundreds of times where it says non muslims are the "fellows of the fire" and will be tortured for eternity.

 

Don't let anybody tell you the quran contains no contradictions. That's just as much of a lie as when christians say it about the bible.

[The Sage Nabooru]

Surah 74, v. 31) We appointed angels to be guardians of Hell, and we assigned their number, 1. to disturb the disbelievers. 2. to show to the Christians and to the Jews the clear proofs (of the Quran as truth), 3. to strengthen the faith of the faithful, 4. to remove all traces of doubt from the hearts of Christians, Jews, as well as the believers, and, 5. to expose those who harbor doubt in their hearts, and the disbelievers; they will say, "What did Allah mean by this allegory?" Allah thus sends astray whomever He wills, and guides whomever He wills. None knows the soldiers of your Lord except He. This is a reminder for the people.

 

The most amusing part, for me, was Muhammad's WAY OFF geneology of Jesus:

 

Zechariah, the leader of the house of Jacob, yearns for a son, who is.....John the Baptist?? And as for Mary, mother of Jesus, and sister of....Aaron?! (And Moses?), the annunciation happened thus: She went off towards the east and put a veil up so people wouldn't see her. Then a good-looking young man comes along and announces her pregnancy. (Hmm....) She gives birth alone under a palm tree, and God places a stream under it for her to drink from. Then she brought him back as a baby to her people, where he awed them with his ability to speak perfectly.

[Ahh!]

OMG I started reading it yesterday.

 

Half of it is telling you how God could fuck you up really bad if he wanted to (God can make the ground collapse under your feet, etc) and the other half is poorly told Bible stories.

[Grandpa Harley]

God will find you and cut you... BAAAAAD!

[The_Omniscient]

Dear fellows;

 

I would like to quote my following response in the similar forum to a board fellow. i would also like you people to read my thread regardingthe smae topic and questions. I hope you people would read it carefully and with neutral way of consideration.

 

Dear Jubliant;

 

Who is "we" that decides to destroy the population?

 

In the quoted verse, "We" stands for the God almighty. In several places of Quran one may find the pronoun We for God rather then I. It is actually used as a Royal-Pronoun. Like when a Monarch addresses, He/She usually uses We rather then I to assert the sense of Royalty, Honor and Power.

 

Can you please tell me where the message of peace is in that scripture? Also, please tell me how it is that the extremists have twisted that scripture.

 

Dear fellow, you have made a same attempt, intentionally or unintentionally, which many others also make. Is it a just act to cite something without its context? As i already said in this thread, it is extremely important that while quoating a divine message, one must relate it to the context not out of context as for any message, be it for human or by human, citation wihtout context can breed desired interpretations. In order to get a clear message, one must read and cite the whole context of the message. As for this verse, let i quote it for you with other concerned verses;

 

 

QUOTE

[8:12] Recall that your Lord inspired the angels: "I am with you; so support those who believed. I will throw terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved. You may strike them above the necks, and you may strike even every finger."

 

[8:13] This is what they have justly incurred by fighting GOD and His messenger. For those who fight against GOD and His messenger, GOD's retribution is severe.

 

[8:14] This is to punish the disbelievers ; they have incurred the retribution of Hell.

 

[8.15] O you who believe! when you meet those who disbelieve marching for war, then turn not your backs to them

 

[8:16] Anyone who turns back on that day, except to carry out a battle plan, or to join his group, has incurred wrath from GOD, and his abode is Hell; what a miserable destiny!

 

 

Well, read the above verses again and again and then tell me, Is it aimed for innocent people or for those who are militants/armymen. It is very clear in this case that these verses are regarding the actions of believers in the battle field. Do you expect a person to happily let his head choped of out of love and mercy for everyone? Exactly not. In a war, enemies are supposed to terminate each other. this is the very theory and meaning of a battle. Now what are the rules of battle in Islam? according to Quran, the battle rules are as follow;

 

 

QUOTE

[60.8] God does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice.

 

[60.9] God only forbids you respecting those who made war upon you on account of (your) religion, and drove you forth from your homes and backed up (others) in your expulsion, that you make friends with them, and whoever makes friends with them, these are the unjust.

 

 

It is clear that all these verses are in a context to a battle which was fought between the believers and disbelievers. If you read the opening verses of this chapter, you wil lget more information about this battle and the very name of this chapter is The Spoils of War (Al-Anfaal). Now,tell me, is it not very clear in the verses that what kind of disbelievers are subjected for a battle? If a disbeliver enjoins a war with the believer just because of the religion and drives him out from his home means invades his land and makes alliance with others in order to terminate the believers then, as a matter of self-defence the believers are allowed to have a war with them and to be brave and not cowards and then they should have faith that God is with them who would help them with Angels. Now, what kind of "terrorism" can you find in these verses for disbelievers???

 

Firstly, you may not be knowing the Quranic definition of a "dis-believer". It is not a common ordinary definition that every non-muslim is a disbeliever. If it would have been the case, the God would have used the word "Non-Muslim" rather then "disbeliever". Disbeliever is actually a person who does not obey the God's law and his commands and make terrorism and problems on Land for others. Such a person is a disbeliever, be a muslim or non-muslim, and if such person, in his actions, wadges a war against you ,then one can defend himself with full-force.

 

All other cited verses are also out of their context and the above one is sufficient to prove the importance of context. Still, if u require the clearrification for the rest, you may ask one by one not so many altogether as i am a single person, not an institute I hope you would understand this reply with sincerity and honesty & i expect a just reply from yourside. If any of my words have hurt you, I apologise for them.

 

You can reach the thread by this add: http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?show...l=Islam+pathway

 

Regards

A well wisher

[Jun]

[8:12] Recall that your Lord inspired the angels: "I am with you; so support those who believed. I will throw terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved. You may strike them above the necks, and you may strike even every finger."

 

What a loving and kind "god" you have. Angels don't exist any more than the tooth fairy.

 

[8:13] This is what they have justly incurred by fighting GOD and His messenger. For those who fight against GOD and His messenger, GOD's retribution is severe.

 

How can you fight against an imaginary character in a book?

 

[8:14] This is to punish the disbelievers ; they have incurred the retribution of Hell.

 

Hell doesn't exist. And why would your "god" punish people simply because they don't believe? Sounds like he has an ego problem.

 

[8.15] O you who believe! when you meet those who disbelieve marching for war, then turn not your backs to them

 

 

[8:16] Anyone who turns back on that day, except to carry out a battle plan, or to join his group, has incurred wrath from GOD, and his abode is Hell; what a miserable destiny!

 

What a miserable life one must lead if one has to base one's life on the teachings of a fictional book.

[nick5]

This is the book revealed by God, so do not try to read it in similar manner as other human books, we need a special way to read it and what is this way, ? Reading it with reference to the context.

 

Are you CRAZY?? That's how you read ALL books!! of course we read them in context! I've almost never seen ANYONE quote something out of context from the bible or the quran, and yet followers always wrongly accuse critics of doing so (liars).

And stop blaming the translation, the meaning is quite clear. The book is disgusting, it's impossible to read it for more than a minute without finding something offensive and hateful in it. Almost on EVERY SINGLE PAGE!!! Not just when they talk about battles!

 

I challenge you to read the quran again. But this time, read it carefully and with neutral way of consideration.

[Antlerman]

Firstly, you may not be knowing the Quranic definition of a "dis-believer". It is not a common ordinary definition that every non-muslim is a disbeliever. If it would have been the case, the God would have used the word "Non-Muslim" rather then "disbeliever". Disbeliever is actually a person who does not obey the God's law and his commands and make terrorism and problems on Land for others. Such a person is a disbeliever, be a muslim or non-muslim, and if such person, in his actions, wadges a war against you ,then one can defend himself with full-force.

Dear Well Wisher,

 

I recognize your intelligence and learning. Yet, do you not see that many, who embrace a religious zeal, or rather a political zeal wrapped in a religious garment, can easily read these verses far more strictly than you choose to? You kindly soften the term "disbeliever" by claiming that God would have said "non-Muslim". Yet how do you support this? Doesn't this seem more you're own projecting onto the words in the Quran as you would see the face of God?

 

I have many times in many threads said that man creates God in his own image. The political, militaristic man will create Allah in his image, that of one that seeks to destroy all opposition to their ideas using the name of God as their justification for murder. On the other side, you have those who seek peace and read the words of an ancient book long removed from our day by projecting their more progressive ideas on to God, yet likewise claiming them as sanctified by the will of God.

 

This is exactly the same in Judaism, in Christianity, and in Islam. It is people creating the world they envision, and using the name of God to promote their values. Are these values any different for those who likewise desire peace, yet find the abuse that has come in using the name "God" to justify all manner of inhumanity and disgrace and offence to life itself? Are you hoping to lead men to Allah, or to the path of peace?

[Thurisaz]

I challenge you to read the quran again. But this time, read it carefully and with neutral way of consideration.

 

Seconded.

 

Of course we know that the morontheist won't do that. Doing so might make it realize that it's all bullcrap, and we can't have that, can we?

[nick5]

Of course not, because then he'd have to be put to death

[Toxic]

The more I progress with this filthy book, the more I realize that Islam is completely based on fear and almost nothing else.

 

Exactly like Christianity.

[Robbobrob]

The Abrahamic Faiths (boy would I like to invent a time machine just so I could go back and kick Abraham's ass) remind me of a 3 act play...Let's call it God Wars, because basically that is what all three books represent, God's war on Human beings.

[Grandpa Harley]

Things to do with a Time Machine

 

1) Slot Abraham on the way out of Ur

2) Slot Moses on the way out of Egypt

3) Slot Origen

4) Slot Mohammed...

[Guest BackSlyder]

I heard that the Qur'an is now available in 2-ply.

[jasonwhatever]

The quran is a bunch of bullshit that has lead to radical terrorism and a great multitude of evil. It is a book of vitriolic poison and hate. The world would have been better off without it.

[jasonwhatever]

Muhammed was a chilld molesting pedophile.