Tennessee teen blogs ex-gay ministry

[Thurisaz]

Um....I think there were people who couldn't believe it was happening in 1933?????

 

If the person reading this happens to be straight, whatever your feelings may be about your gay friends if you even have any, please don't forget that historically this is frequently the first "undesireable" subgroup that is persecuted, but never the last.

 

If you don't care about Zack, how can you expect someone who doesn't fit the current definition of "undesireable" to care about you when/if it's your turn to find yourself in a "re-education camp"??

 

So true. So abso-fucking-lutely true.

 

Remember Niemöller? "...then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak out for me."

 

Pictures say more than a thousand words? Okay.

[crazy-tiger]

Someone needs to whack those parents with a clue-by-four.

 

 

What the fuck are they thinking? (if they're thinking at all...)

[Purple Rhino]

As a 'queer camp' survivor I just hope he has the strength to make it through.

 

As for the parents they mey believe that this is what is "Best" for their son, but under it all it is more about them saving face and their need to control every aspect of his life.

 

While in a camp like this all human rights are taken away and the no contact rules are to make sure that only those who agree with the tactics of the camp are involved. The last thing they want is for a snooping aunt or family friend to throw some sanity on the situation.

 

PR

[Thurisaz]

What the fuck are they thinking?

 

What, you don't know?

 

"JEBUSJEBUSJEBUSJEBUSJEBUSJEBUSJEBUSJEBUSJEBUSJEBUS..."

 

Understood?

[Thurisaz]

By the way, the entrance to those "camps" doesn't just happen to look eerily similar to this one?

[♦ nivek ♦]

That is just terrible.  I wish I could sneak this poor kid out and convince my parents to let him live with us.  I wonder if there are rescue programs for kids like these like they have cult deprogramers who kindnap cultists to rehibilitate them.

 

Yes Huntress, there are places for kids like this to find Sanctuary..

 

He is across nation from us, however haciendaFatman and its doors have often been tis kind and sort of kids first steps to a *real life*..

 

The Russians call their client-slaves "Zeks"...

 

Reading the ruleZ of the .Org, first thing I'd do is publicly get nekkid and dare to shave my big ole head....

 

kL

[DeathWorship]

that's sick, purely sick.. there really is no other word for it.

[Alice]

For the first time since I joined this site I really understand what there is get so angry about with fundamentalist christianty ...

 

I have NEVER seen anything like that in the UK. (I know there are programmes running in the UK for adults who want to change their sexual orientation - and yes this is sad as well - and they only exist because people have been made to feel that their is something 'wrong' with their sexuality)

 

But this is unbelievably abusive. In fact at first I just couldn't believe it.

 

Isn't there anything that can be done to stop it?

 

I'm a social worker, and if this young person lived in the UK I'd be expecting an application to be made for a 'prohibited steps' order to prevent his parents from enrolling him and I would fully expect to get one.

 

Then I'd get the place shut down.

 

What has happened to the states?

[Mr. Neil]

I don't know. It's like despite all the progress we made in the 20th century, we're suddenly going backwards. Americans are turning their backs on the science that made them a power in the first place. It's like, "Oh, science says homosexuality isn't a choice? Well fuck science then!"

 

And in some cases, by using television and the internet to spread their propaganda, they're using science against itself. It's kind of funny that fundies don't see the irony in that, but it's also really sad.

[Alice]

I don't know.  It's like despite all the progress we made in the 20th century, we're suddenly going backwards.  Americans are turning their backs on the science that made them a power in the first place.  It's like, "Oh, science says homosexuality isn't a choice?  Well fuck science then!"

 

And in some cases, by using television and the internet to spread their propaganda, they're using science against itself.  It's kind of funny that fundies don't see the irony in that, but it's also really sad.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I guess I thought it was 'freedom' that made America great. And I thought it was 'Freedom of the Individual' - but it doesn't seem to be that at all. It seems parents 'freedoms' to do what they want to the little lives that are dependent on them (but don't 'belong' to them) are protected and the 'freedoms' of communities to impose their standards and their expectations on others are protected - and the rights of the individual have been totally lost.

 

But REALLY isn't there anything that can be done in this case - don't you have social services departments that would intervene - don't you have child rights groups - gay rights groups - human rights groups dammit - (or even the 'A' team if it comes to it) - that can seek some kind of injunction and stop it from happening? (or drive over there and mount a daring escape?)

 

What's with all the ....

 

'this is so very terrible but 'be of good cheer and maybe you could sue later' inaction?

 

(Sorry getting angry with the crowd watching instead of the perpetrators)

[I Broke Free]

What has happened to the states?

 

Hesitant, that is a very good question!

 

I think the best way to approach your question would be for me to personify the United States for a moment. The US is currently going through a “Crisis of Faith” in itself. She was born in the late 18th Century and grew quickly. From the very beginning she was an unusual child for her time. She had a vision of herself that was quite different from her peers and she was not shy about expressing it. She was a vibrant, sassy and beautiful child. Her adolescence was marked by inner turmoil (The Civil War 1861-1865) but she eventually found her footing and confidently marched forward. Her peers were amazed at her continued growth and confidence in herself. She began to take to take on more responsibility, but was very apprehensive about getting involved in conflicts that did not involve her personally.

 

In the 20th Century she was forced to look beyond her own borders. Friends she had made were in trouble and they asked for and eventually (with great reluctance) received her powerful help. Two major conflicts were won and the US patted herself on the back. Her confidence grew exponentially, and she foolishly felt she could do no wrong. Her peers praised her continued efforts and influence in trying to create a stable world. Eventually though she made some rash and foolish decisions that made her peers angry. Filled with pride, she refused to listen, or acknowledge her mistakes.

 

Her growing power supplied her with the illusion that she was “blessed from above,” and did not need to answer to her peers. She turned a blind eye to her methods of obtaining her power and wealth. One by one her peers started to resent and hate her; a few even started throwing rocks at her. Still she refused to listen. “They hate me because I am smart, powerful and beautiful,” she told herself. She had become a total self-absorbed bitch!

 

Hesitant, this is where we are as a people today. This national condition manifests itself in some pretty strange behaviors by our people. We Americans grew up (I sure was) being told just how fucking fabulous we are as a people and as a nation. I was told in school that everyone loved us because we help other nations and want to spread democracy. Our preachers told us that the United States was the beacon on the hill.

 

Now people are attacking us! Our leaders lie to us! Scores of nations hate us! What do we do? Exactly what any spoiled bitch would do. We blame everyone else and then look to God to tell us exactly what we want to here. For two hundred years in this country people were willing to recognize that faith was personal and did not force it into the political arena (not much anyway). Now the stakes are too high. If we don’t get everyone to agree that God says we are blessed among nations, then we may have to do some introspection and perhaps admit we were wrong. God Forbid!!! The religious fervor of the United States at present is last ditch effort by our people to avoid responsibility. Homosexuals are just the first of many groups that will be sacrificed at the alter-of-shame, in the hopes of getting God to get us out of this mess without having to give up our SUV or admit that perhaps we made some mistakes.

[Caretaker]

By the way, the entrance to those "camps" doesn't just happen to look eerily similar to this one? 

Work makes free?

[Purple Rhino]

... without having to give up our SUV or admit that perhaps we made some mistakes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

IBF,

 

Fantastic post! Very well said.

 

PR

[Guest Thanatos]

I realize that i'm not saying anything new but I can't believe that this is happening. I watched the movie "saved" thought it was funny but didn't take anything serious. Now i find out these nazi camps are real.

[Onyx]

I'm digusted, man. I'm a bisexual and 15. Fuck these super fundy parents! I don't want to change my sexuality. Not one bit.

But then, it can't be changed.

[Alice]

Hesitant, that is a very good question!

 

I think the best way to approach your question would be for me to personify the United States for a moment. The US is currently going through a “Crisis of Faith” in itself. She was born in the late 18th Century and grew quickly. From the very beginning she was an unusual child for her time. She had a vision of herself that was quite different from her peers and she was not shy about expressing it. She was a vibrant, sassy and beautiful child. Her adolescence was marked by inner turmoil (The Civil War 1861-1865) but she eventually found her footing and confidently marched forward. Her peers were amazed at her continued growth and confidence in herself. She began to take to take on more responsibility, but was very apprehensive about getting involved in conflicts that did not involve her personally.

 

In the 20th Century she was forced to look beyond her own borders. Friends she had made were in trouble and they asked for and eventually (with great reluctance) received her powerful help. Two major conflicts were won and the US patted herself on the back. Her confidence grew exponentially, and she foolishly felt she could do no wrong. Her peers praised her continued efforts and influence in trying to create a stable world. Eventually though she made some rash and foolish decisions that made her peers angry. Filled with pride, she refused to listen, or acknowledge her mistakes.

 

Her growing power supplied her with the illusion that she was “blessed from above,” and did not need to answer to her peers. She turned a blind eye to her methods of obtaining her power and wealth. One by one her peers started to resent and hate her; a few even started throwing rocks at her. Still she refused to listen. “They hate me because I am smart, powerful and beautiful,” she told herself. She had become a total self-absorbed bitch!

 

Hesitant, this is where we are as a people today. This national condition manifests itself in some pretty strange behaviors by our people. We Americans grew up (I sure was) being told just how fucking fabulous we are as a people and as a nation. I was told in school that everyone loved us because we help other nations and want to spread democracy. Our preachers told us that the United States was the beacon on the hill.

 

Now people are attacking us! Our leaders lie to us! Scores of nations hate us! What do we do? Exactly what any spoiled bitch would do. We blame everyone else and then look to God to tell us exactly what we want to here. For two hundred years in this country people were willing to recognize that faith was personal and did not force it into the political arena (not much anyway). Now the stakes are too high. If we don’t get everyone to agree that God says we are blessed among nations, then we may have to do some introspection and perhaps admit we were wrong. God Forbid!!! The religious fervor of the United States at present is last ditch effort by our people to avoid responsibility. Homosexuals are just the first of many groups that will be sacrificed at the alter-of-shame, in the hopes of getting God to get us out of this mess without having to give up our SUV or admit that perhaps we made some mistakes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thanks IBF - I really appreciate the effort that went into that - I love explanations in this sort of style.

 

You answered my 'what has happened to the states' question - is the answer to my other questions contained within it? - I mean the practical 'haven't you got social services departments that would intervene - don't you have child rights groups - gay rights groups - human rights groups that can seek some kind of injunction and stop it from happening?' questions. Is the answer to these questions 'no - we haven't got these things'?

 

I really mean it when I say that if this came to light in the UK - I'd get it stopped - that's if I was at the front of the queue to get it stopped. (and there would be a queue) don't you have legislation that outlaws discrimination and protects the human rights of everyone irrespective of their sexual orientation?

 

Its not like this young man doesn't want anyone to intervene in his family life - he's posted a 'help me please' message on the internet.

 

Again I don't want to get cross with the wrong people - but what's with all the standing around tutting about how terrible it is? (Ok - maybe action is being taken that I don't know about, and maybe for reasons I don't know it's felt this shouldn't be publicised)

 

But what's happeneing here is the impression is being given that there is NOTHING that can be actually done about this. Which will just make the slide toward this kind of infringement on human rights all the more likely.

 

Is it really the case that there is nothing that can be done to stop it?

[Lizard]

Is it really the case that there is nothing that can be done to stop it?

 

I think at issue is his age. He's only 16 and a minor. I don't know the laws of Tennessee, but in Texas, had he waited until he was 17 this shit wouldn't be able to happen against his will.

 

Here, 17 is a gray age. Not yet adult, not still minor.

 

Unless he can get emancipated, he really has no choice but to go to this place.

 

Reading it..I just want to drive down there, get him out, bring him here and let him continue his high school life as he sees fit.

 

The rules are similar to a program here, for juvinile delinquents. Of course, its state or county run and leaves out the god part..or did it? No! They had church services there every Sunday, come to think of it. Not mandatory, but if you didn't go, you were looked down on. However, that was a detention center for repeat juvinile offenders..not sexual orientation.

 

This poor kid has enough challenges to face as a young gay person. Add this fundie crap..it could break him. Hell, as an adult straight woman, the fundie shit nearly broke me! I can only imagine what is in his mind.

 

Also, did y'all notice the impersonal references in the parental rules?

 

4. Don¹t allow client to split your family. Unite to present stability and unity.

 

5. Your client ]is not allowed to talk to anyone outside of your home including friends or family. Do not tell client who has called for them or who is asking about them. Keep the thoughts of the client focused on his/her treatment.

 

"The client" "Your client"????? That's their child! Born of their bodies! Detach personal feelings and you can do anything.

[Alice]

I think at issue is his age.  He's only 16 and a minor.  I don't know the laws of Tennessee, but in Texas, had he waited until he was 17 this shit wouldn't be able to happen against his will. 

 

Here, 17 is a gray age.  Not yet adult, not still minor.

 

Unless he can get emancipated, he really has no choice but to go to this place.

 

Reading it..I just want to drive down there, get him out, bring him here and let him continue his high school life as he sees fit.

 

The rules are similar to a program here, for juvinile delinquents.  Of course, its state or county run and leaves out the god part..or did it?  No!  They had church services there every Sunday, come to think of it.  Not mandatory, but if you didn't go, you were looked down on.  However, that was a detention center for repeat juvinile offenders..not sexual orientation.

 

This poor kid has enough challenges to face as a young gay person.  Add this fundie crap..it could break him.  Hell, as an adult straight woman, the fundie shit nearly broke me!  I can only imagine what is in his mind.

 

Also, did y'all notice the impersonal references in the parental rules?

"The client" "Your client"?????  That's their child!  Born of their bodies!  Detach personal feelings and you can do anything.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

We have provision in the law in the UK for those grey area's. In a situation like this - social services would intervene, the aim being to secure the child's welfare by the least intrusive means possible - and a 'Guardian' and child care Solicitor would be appointed to represent the 'wishes and feelings' and the 'best interests' of the child. From about the age of 12 a child is seen as 'competent' to give their own instructions.

 

I work as a children's Guardian. If I had a case like this, I would initially recommend a 'Prohibited Steps' Order - preventing the parents from enrolling him in this programme - at the same time I'd be expecting the programme to be under investigation and it's closure imminent. (You just can't get approval to run residential courses for children in the UK without a committment to 'anti oppressive' practice - and this includes sexual orientation)

 

I have no doubt that the child would be on the 'child Protection Register' - for 'emotional abuse' and it would be my hope that the parents could be worked with without the need for further draconian orders - but depending on the child's views I'd been unlikely to hesistate requesting stronger orders if the parents failed to comply with the prohibited steps.

 

I guess there would be some legal argument about the case - because the same legislation that outlaws discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation - also outlaws discrimination on the grounds of religion.

 

The difference here is that children have greater protection under the law. I guess this doesn't sit very comfortably with a lot of Americans -

 

Its been a hard fought battle in the UK - a lot of people think the state intervene too much in family life here, but from where I'm standing (and of course I recognise that I am probably very biased!) children are individuals, and their autonomy rights don't start at 17 or 18 years.

 

What does 'emancipated' mean in this context - is this what the media refers to as 'children divorcing their parents?' -

[Purple Rhino]

...

 

What does 'emancipated' mean in this context - is this what the media refers to as 'children divorcing their parents?' -

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hi Hesitent,

 

The best deffinition can be found here Emancipated Minor

 

As for intervention for this young man one of the major difficulties is that each state has different laws governing child/minor services... Here in Massachussets minors have more rights and protections than is available in Tennesee. And even then it would all fall into the family court system, which besides back logged beyond belief, have the chance of a Fundie Judge who will side with the parents "rights" .. or continue the case without a hearing until the youth is just about to turn 18.

 

It's messed up to say the least.

 

In my personal experience I had to stay in hiding on the streets for over a year when I escaped a similar 'camp'. To make sure that I would not be sent back by the courts.

 

PR

[Lilith]

As far as, "Has anything been done" if you go to page 4 of this kid's (Zach is his name) Kudos page, you'll see the following post:

 

I made a full child abuse / child neglect report for Bartlett County, Tennessee.

 

Full identifying information on the minor would be helpful.

 

Anyone who can provide this information should use contact information below.

 

-------------------------------

 

I made a full child abuse / child neglect report by phone to the Department of Family Services Child abuse reporting hotline for Bartlett County, Tennessee.

 

Full identifying information on the minor would be very helpful.

 

Anyone who can provide that information should use contact information below.

 

------------------

 

How to Report Abuse

The Tennessee Department of Children’s Services is mandated by law to investigate reports of suspected child abuse and neglect. Immediately report your suspicions by calling:

 

Tennessee Child Abuse Hotline: 1.877.237.0004

You can reach this toll free number 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

 

DeSoto County Mississippi: 662.429.1480

Mississippi Intrastate: 1.800.222.8000

Arkansas intrastate: 1.800.482.5964

 

When you call, it will be helpful if you can provide the following information:

 

Name, age and address of the child

Name and address of the parent(s) or guardian(s)

Nature of abuse

Identity of offender

 

To Report to the Police:

 

Bartlett 901.385.5555

Collierville 901.853.4777

Germantown 901.754.7222

Memphis 901.528.2222

Millington 901.872.3333

Shelby County 901.495.1180

 

I responded to this that I would be contacting the media, which I did (CNN & ABC...feel free to join suit, anyone). I haven't had a chance to read the next 2 or 3 pages of Kudos people have left, but I have a feeling that this won't just be ignored. Unfortunately, as much as many of us would love to go take him away from that situation, we are powerless to do so. We would be charged with kidnapping and probably taking a minor across state lines (an additional charge that carries a hefty sentence). Our system moves slow here, but it does move. If someone (preferably local) can get a hold of CPS, it might help. As far as having the place shut down, I don't think that would be possible. Unless there are physical or sexual abuses taking place, it has a right to be there. If anyone knows of a loophole, let's throw it and perhaps tighten the "noose."

[Ouroboros]

I don't know.  It's like despite all the progress we made in the 20th century, we're suddenly going backwards.  Americans are turning their backs on the science that made them a power in the first place.  It's like, "Oh, science says homosexuality isn't a choice?  Well fuck science then!"

 

And in some cases, by using television and the internet to spread their propaganda, they're using science against itself.  It's kind of funny that fundies don't see the irony in that, but it's also really sad.

Yes, isn't it strange? The freedom of religion was the base for this country's constitution and in my opinion one of the reasons why it has been so successful, and it’s slowly disappearing. If the tide doesn’t change, this country will fall back into dark ages again with candle lights and horse and carriage, and the rest of the world will zoom by on hi-tech space ships.

[Ouroboros]

 

Heads on. Perfect description.

[Mr. Neil]

Yes, isn't it strange? The freedom of religion was the base for this country's constitution and in my opinion one of the reasons why it has been so successful, and it’s slowly disappearing. If the tide doesn’t change, this country will fall back into dark ages again with candle lights and horse and carriage, and the rest of the world will zoom by on hi-tech space ships.

I don't think it'll ever go that far. I think it's more like a pendulum. We just happen to be swinging the other direction. Most people have enough senses to see that they're making things worse with religion and not better. That's how this country became as progressive as it has in the first place.

 

The way things are right now is really discouraging, but you know what? The anger of the opposition is getting louder. They can take our country away, but they can't shut us up. We'll go somewhere else and bitch from there. There are plenty of places for atheists to go. We don't have to take this crap.

 

Personally, I think the mortal blow to religion has been dealt; the internet. There is now a whole world's worth of information sitting right in people's livingrooms. Sure, the Christians think they can use the internet to their advantage, but so can we. For the first time ever, non-belief has a major voice that cannot be regulated by corporations or the government the way television and radio can. Non-Christian scholarship now has a direct line to the masses, and those curious Christians (you know there are a lot of them!) who are itching to hear what atheists have to say are now only a click away from solid reason.

 

Anyway, I'll come down off my soapbox now, since this has very little to do with the topic, but you seem my point.

[Ouroboros]

...

Anyway, I'll come down off my soapbox now, since this has very little to do with the topic, but you seem my point.

 

That was a very good answer. I think you're right. The pendulum will swing back.

Hopefully not to far in the future.

[Rachelness]

It's about time our undesirables were sent to be "re-educated".

 

I cannot wait for the day when this is [rightly] considered child abuse.