R. S. Martin Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 I guess both hero worship and deity worship is somewhat about the projection of what we want to be or what we want to become. It's the longing of becoming a better person. Why do we long after that? It must be a genetic trait which is part of why humanity strive so hard for progress and development of new ideas, new worlds and new techology? Since no one here knows her I don't think I'm breaking confidence. She told me something that I found really disturbing and it fits right in with what you are saying here about the "projection of what we want to be or what we want to become." She said she has been asking herself, "Who am I? I don't really know who *I* am." She has also told me that there has never been a time when she didn't know that God existed. These days psychologists are coming up with evidence that "God" is part of the human brain or psyche. Thus, my personal belief is that she projects her real self onto God. This leaves her empty and selfless inside so that she doesn't know who she is. I find that so very sad. But I don't think she is ready to hear that analysis from me at this point so it's better I don't present it. On top of that, she is the person with a BA in psychology and a PhD in spiritual guidance; I'm just working on an MA in theology and have a BA in social work. I find it so sad that she has all this training and education but has not yet solidified who she is inside of herself. What I did do on my own was very extensive research and self-analysis on who and what *I* am. I used mental health self-improvement books and basically built myself up from scratch. I think that on the basis of my own self-analysis I could help others figure out who they are. But I don't have any official credentials and I don't think I have a right to impose this on a person who does not ask for it. She didn't ask for it; she just shared it by way of sharing about herself in chit-chat in a telephone conversation. She and I are so similar in our thinking that at one point I asked her almost without thinking whether she is still a Christian. She said she is because it is the only story she knows. She was not open to learning any other story. Maybe the differences between her and me are greater than I like to admit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 I appreciate everyone's responses. That wasn't so painful, was it? Possibly you are trying to be funny, but it sounds like you are prejudging that questions from a Christian would be "Painful" to us in some way. Not so good a way to start a dialogue. Weird. He's just a person like the rest of us. Maybe he doesn't see us like normal humans but that doesn't keep us from seeing him like a normal human. Normal humans do ask questions about heroes. Mulls, you can ask us anything you like. If we don't like it we'll respond accordingly. There are different rules for various parts of the forums. In the Lion's Den we are allowed to chew up the fundies and so we do. If you want to see an outstanding example of a fundy take a look at Sonya in the Christmas thread in the Coleseum. She got chewed out there, too, which rather surprised me because I thought the rules said for serious discussion, but she took it with a very mature attitude. I respected her for it. You just make it really difficult for us to respect you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 Heros of the faith? Judas and Pucious Pilot (can't spell it lol) come to mind.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hereticzero Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 I'm curious as to who you might have looked up to as a Christian and desired to be like or learn from. Pastors, parents, friends, teachers, etc. I'm especially curious about the "brand-name" Christians you may have followed closely....famous preachers, authors, missionaries, etc. And since your deconversion, do you now have any ex-Christians, broadly known or personally known, that you greatly respect and who have helped you out? I followed Star Trek and Spock the Divine. Since my deconversion I've followed Enterprise and T'Pol the Hard-body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 I've followed Enterprise and T'Pol the Hard-body. Damn straight! Nothing more sexy then a cold, hard, logical, knock-out with an awesome body! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhia Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 I appreciate everyone's responses. That wasn't so painful, was it? FUCK. YOU. I REFUSE to be part of your silly little study. I am a normal human - not someone who would typically find this to be painful or torturous, if you had gone through the correct methods and parameters to glean your information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purple Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 When I was a xian I probably would have said something cheesy like Jesus. No, actaully I probably wouldn't have actaully, even then I had a hard time with the "Jesus is the answer to everythign" crowd... "What's ur fave thing on toast?".. JESUS! I am HORRIBLE about celebritiy names, be it musicians, or authors and I don't really have heros, now or then. Now though if pressed I'd say my biggest hero is Butters, my cat, not the South Park character although........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purple Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Heros of the faith? Judas and Pucious Pilot (can't spell it lol) come to mind.... Going that way I'd say Satan. He was the one who told the truth in the garden, thereby giving us freewill to tell the Holy Farter to go to hell. That was pretty awesome of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparrow Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 I appreciate everyone's responses. That wasn't so painful, was it? Don't be so damn arrogant. "That wasn't so painful, was it? " - What? Who the hell do you think you're talking to? 5 year olds? I hope you don't talk to Mother that way. Spatz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy-tiger Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 I'm curious as to who you might have looked up to as a Christian and desired to be like or learn from. Pastors, parents, friends, teachers, etc. I'm especially curious about the "brand-name" Christians you may have followed closely....famous preachers, authors, missionaries, etc. And since your deconversion, do you now have any ex-Christians, broadly known or personally known, that you greatly respect and who have helped you out? Am I the only one who thinks there something not right about the way this has been worded? See, it implies that Christians can be looked up to, that people desire to be like them/learn from them... but also implies that you can only learn from an Ex-Christian, that no-one wants to be like them. Interestingly enough, it also seems to imply that Ex-Christians can help you out while Christians can't... Maybe it's just me, but the questions really don't ask the same. They seems to be asking different things while pretending to be the same. (and the whole "Who were your Heros of The Faith and who are they now" speaks too much of the "Everyone believes in something" crap that gets thrown around a lot) As for you questions... no, there were no Christians I looked up to, none I desired to be like or learn from. I always believed that if I learned from people, I was learning THEIR religion, not Christianity... and if I tried to be like someone else, I wasn't the person God intended ME to be. Do I hold any Ex's in great respect? No... I respect them all, just as I respect all humans, but I don't elevate any of them over the rest as that's the kind of thing that has the nasty effect of starting hero-worship, and I have too much respect for myself to do that. Have any helped me out? Not in a material sense... but as friends, people I know, even just as someone to rant at to get my frustrations out, they help me in an emotional way that I was never able to get from Christians. Here's somethign to stick in your little study project... the Christians named in this thread are all of the "Be like me, praise me, love me, give to me..." Christians that are so beloved by the sheep, while the Ex's lack that attitude and need. Maybe I should thank you for instigating something that exposes the "Heros" of Christian faith for the selfish, grabbing parasites they really are... And I bet that revelation wasn't so painful, was it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Heros of the faith? Judas and Pucious Pilot (can't spell it lol) come to mind.... Going that way I'd say Satan. He was the one who told the truth in the garden, thereby giving us freewill to tell the Holy Farter to go to hell. That was pretty awesome of him. Santa, err Satan lol has pretty much ZERO deaths attributed to him in the buybull... Whereas god has over 31 million... hmmm who is the more "compassionate"? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trashy Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 I worshipped no one as a 'hero' per se. But I did greatly admire Keith Green for his 'no compromise' stand. He appealed to my fundamentalist mindset. I also sent a lot of money to Kenneth Copeland. I now admire Richard Dawkins and Bart Ehrman and youth who take a stand for freedom from religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 So where IS mulls? He's been looking in just a bit ago, according to his profile. But the coward wouldn't post. Won't respond to our posts. Just wants to be maddeningly mean. And then we're supposed to want to be like him. I think there's a reason Alice was prompted to post that thread about how infuriating Christians are. This mulls guy obviously does not love people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 let's see if a straight response to the OP flushes him out Fr. Charles Moore S.J., Fr. Anthony DeMello S.J., Fr. Richard Reade B.Div (Oxon) (one of my oldest friends), Jack Kornfield, Gil Fronsdal, Lao-tzu, Chuang-tzu, Siddhartha Gautama, John Daido Loori Roshi, Mohandas K Gandhi, Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr, Thich Naht Hanh, David Gemmell, Gene Roddenberry, J. Michael Straczynski, Russel T. Davies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alice Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 OOOooo Fellow DeMellow reader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Indeed... Path to Love is one of my favourites... I just play the irascible fool... it doesn't mean it's the only mask I wear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulls Posted December 31, 2007 Author Share Posted December 31, 2007 Ah crap. I apologize for the condescending remark. No excuse for that. ------------ I've read all the responses. I haven't heard of most of the people mentioned, save for a few such as Tillich and Yancey and McClaren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oddmanout Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 J. Michael Straczynski YES!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ nivek ♦ Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 Dead. kFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 Dead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oddmanout Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 Say it's not true, not JMS http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0833089/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 either Great Uncle Kev has a better Jungle grapevine than me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alice Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 Indeed... Path to Love is one of my favourites... I just play the irascible fool... it doesn't mean it's the only mask I wear Isn't it ..'The way to love'? some day I shall engage you in conversation on this mask wearing thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 Ah the effect of sleep deprivation on the nominally sane... you are quite right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy-tiger Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 Ah the effect of sleep deprivation on the nominally sane... you are quite right... Nominally sane? I do believe you're being overly generous there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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