Am I the only one

[spamandham]

I'm feeling very alone this morning.  My husband's return to church last night was much harder than I imagined it would be.  I had a minor emotional breakdown and was sobbing in front of him and everything.  I was blithering on about how he doesn't understand me, doesn't want to understand me, is going to be turned against me by the members of the church......God, I'm a mess.

 

No, you're not alone here, as Reach indicated.

 

I'm going through the same thing to a lesser degree (perhaps we're just further along in the process). I had a bit of a breakthrough the other day when my wife admitted that she sort of appreciates my position. I think that's true of almost all theists, but when they finally admit it...wow.

 

You have 3 kids and 1 on the way correct? I'm not a professional, but my advice would be to stick it out at least for a year or so. You may find that your hubby will accept you as you are given some time, or you may find other ways to deal with it. Some honest discussions about why you don't share his faith might help as well. I couldn't directly address the issue with my wife at first because she refused to listen, so I dropped salient points in at every opportunity until I got her attention.

[Lilith]

Toe....you're so sweet. Words can't express my appreciation.

 

 

 

 

No, you're not alone here, as Reach indicated. 

 

I'm going through the same thing to a lesser degree (perhaps we're just further along in the process).  I had a bit of a breakthrough the other day when my wife admitted that she sort of appreciates my position.  I think that's true of almost all theists, but when they finally admit it...wow.

 

You have 3 kids and 1 on the way correct?  I'm not a professional, but my advice would be to stick it out at least for a year or so.  You may find that your hubby will accept you as you are given some time, or you may find other ways to deal with it.  Some honest discussions about why you don't share his faith might help as well.  I couldn't directly address the issue with my wife at first because she refused to listen, so I dropped salient points in at every opportunity until I got her attention.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have 4 kids...my youngest is 8 years old. I sure hope I don't have another on the way!

 

Do you remember (out of curiosity) what point it was that you made that "got her attention?"

[Loren]

I've been tremendously gratified to see all the wise and heartfelt responses to appellation's situation. With all the silliness, trivial topics, outright rude arguments and whatnot that get posted on our boards, this thread shows our community functioning exactly the way it was meant to when Dave started the site. It's inspiring to me.

 

I've stayed out of this thread because I've never been in any situation where there was conflict between me and fundy family, so I don't have useful experience. However, I would very much like to make a small, but I think important point to any members who deal with these kinds of very difficult family problems.

 

Even our mistakes can be useful information to others in similar situations.

 

We often get into a mindset where we don't post in a thread like this one because although we are or have been in that same or similar situation, the things we tried didn't work or backfired badly. So in spite of having a lot of direct experience, we feel that we have no good answers that would help the other person.

 

It's just as worthwhile to share what didn't work as what did work. It could save someone a lot of time and needless, avoidable pain and frustration. It's also a way of redeeming our mistakes. If we share them, perhaps something good can come of it. If we don't share them, nothing good can come of them.

 

On a slight tangent, I always love the thought of Christian lurkers reading these threads and seeing all the deeply sincere expressions of pain caused directly by Christianity. We know that such lurkers are often around. Some of our members came as curious Christians and saw enough pain that they could no longer successfully fool themselves as to the thoroughly good effects of The One True Faith. It became a huge rock in the road of their "walk with Jesus." With others, it was another important nail in the coffin of their faith. I always think of that when I look at the difference between the numbers in the "replies" column on an index page and the numbers in the "views" column. In this particular thread at the moment, there have been 27 replies, but 345 views. Surely some of them may be Christian lurkers.

 

Thank you very much appellation, for your courage. Thank you very much to all the rest you for your commitment to caring for our members. And here's to hopes that all this pain expressed will benefit people in situations unseen to us.

 

 

Loren

[Checkmate]

Even our mistakes can be useful information to others in similar situations.

 

We often get into a mindset where we don't post in a thread like this one because although we are or have been in that same or similar situation, the things we tried didn't work or backfired badly. So in spite of having a lot of direct experience, we feel that we have no good answers that would help the other person.

 

It's just as worthwhile to share what didn't work as what did work. It could save someone a lot of time and needless, avoidable pain and frustration. It's also a way of redeeming our mistakes. If we share them, perhaps something good can come of it. If we don't share them, nothing good can come of them.

 

 

Loren

 

 

The smart person learns from their mistakes.

 

The WISE person learns from the mistakes of others.

 

So true.

[Lilith]

I sure wish I could do a group hug sometimes.

[spamandham]

Toe....you're so sweet.  Words can't express my appreciation. 

I have 4 kids...my youngest is 8 years old.  I sure hope I don't have another on the way!

 

Do you remember (out of curiosity) what point it was that you made that "got her attention?"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

We were in the middle of another discussion about going to church, etc., when she made that revelation. It was something to the effect of "I actually appreciate your position, but if we don't go to church the kids will all commit suicide, the world will end, cats and dogs will start having sex..."

 

Ok, a bit of an exaggeration, but you get the point. From her perspective, religious life and social life and just life in general can not be extracated from eachother or everything will explode. It doesn't matter whether there's any truth to her religion or not, it's all about the effect it has.

[Godless Wonder]

I HATE this situation!  And I HATE this religion that tears families apart!

I know that feeling. Christianity, supposedly all about love, but what it does more than anything is destroy love.

but I'm forbidden to discuss it openly with her OR my own children!

Man, that's harsh. I don't know what I would do in that situation, but knowing me, I would break that rule. (not advising you to do that, that's more a comment about my nature.)

Grrr!

No kidding. Grrrr!! Hulk SMASH!!!!

[Guest Gypsy]

hi appellation, i am in the same situation as you, married to a fundy. mine gets really upset when i use that word tho. he heard it the first time in marriage counselling a few weeks ago. mine doesn't go to church anymore, altho he leads a bible study every week at his office and he preaches to our kids every sunday. we started out xtian together but i left it like 8 or 9 years ago.

 

i used to try to get him to understand me up until about 3 years ago when he flat out asked me what i thot of jesus. when i told him i thot if he was a real person he definately wasn't god... he told me that he 'needed to find a way to get rid of me but hadn't figured it out just yet'. and didn't speak to me for 3 days. i lay awake in bed wondering if he was going to shoot me or something if i fell asleep. after the 3rd day i told him to leave. so he is all scared and apologetic. and i realized all the years i wished he had someone better than me, i was suddenly feeling like i was tired of this space with him myself. when that Train song came out 'drops of jupitor' i would cry every time because it brought up how seperate me and my h's lives were becoming and guilt because i was the one changing and moving away inside.

 

since that day he said he wanted to get rid of me we have barely spoken about anything religious. he feigns interest, a smile and a nod, when i mention anything i am reading or into.... and then my kids tell me how he -doesn't mention my name or say 'mom'-but brings up lots of bible verses on whatever recent thing i was talking about-and tells the kids that 'people who think like this have shit-for-brains (his favorite phrase) and/or are going to hell'. one of his favorite verses is the one about a house divided against itself will not stand. yet my older kids (have 5 -just turned 18, 15, 12,9 & 7) tell me that it makes them so angry that their dad uses that verse every sunday but in the next breath divides our family by judging me.

 

someone brought up the verses 1 corin. 7:12-14 and i believe that must be what my h is holding onto. i have no idea why he wants to stay married to me except that it is just easier than going thru a divorce. maybe for you it will work for good if you guys can set up some negotiating in the beginning over how your relationship will now work.

 

it sounds like you and your h really have a close relationship. i'm sorry for what you are going thru. my suggestion would be to find marriage counselling to see how this can work without him turning against you. one of my kids has to go to counselling and her t says if me and h don't divorce we definately need a marraige c. to show us how to make this difference of religion thing work for the kids - that we are messing them up. that was when we started this round of talking. but are we talking at home yet? no.... that elephant has had babies in my house and there is at least a few in every room. we have a long list of what topics we avoid so that things run semi-smoothly in our family. but underneath things are a mess, and we might divorce.

 

i have also been forbidden to tell the kids anything of what i believe but i do it anyway when the subject comes up. we don't talk about that either, except for him to walk thru the room, forbid me to do something, accuse me of sneaking information (! yes i read another book he didn't approve of !), and walk out.

 

we have other problems besides the religion thing tho, so that compounds stuff for us that might not apply to you.

 

i hope the best for you.

 

***

 

kryten, i looked up 'if hell is real' from tentmaker...... i printed it out for my h, maybe he'll read it. hey, tentmaker is the guy (forget his name now) who had the 'tithe is illegal' article that was like a lifesaver for us way back. my h let me tell him about the booklet some 10 years ago when i got him to agree to stop giving money to the church. read tentmaker stuff way back was what got me geared up to get out.

[Lilith]

gypsy....Your situation is much more intense than mine. I hope/pray that my marriage never reaches that point and that yours reaches a point of peace, be it together or apart. It's heartbreaking to see religion tear families apart like this.

 

:hugs:

[bob]

Well, some here may think I am losing my mind, but my 24 year marriage to an ex-christian ended several months ago, and I, an atheist, am now madly in love with a christian.

She knew from the beginning that I was an ex-christian. I know she holds out hope that I will "see the light".

She goes to church every Sunday morning (no Sunday evenings or Wednesday evenings, thank God).

We don't talk about religion much. I never bring it up, and make very few comments when she does bring it up. I only comment when she asks me a direct question about religion.

We have been seeing each other seriously for almost 5 months. I have not gone to church with her yet. I will go soon, I am sure, for the simple reason that I love being with her, and I have told her that is the only reason I will go.

Wish me luck appellation.

[Kryten]

***

 

kryten, i looked up 'if hell is real' from tentmaker...... i printed it out for my h, maybe he'll read it.  hey, tentmaker is the guy (forget his name now) who had the 'tithe is illegal' article that was like a lifesaver for us way back.  my h let me tell him about the booklet some 10 years ago when i got him to agree to stop giving money to the church.  read tentmaker stuff way back was what got me geared up to get out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, hopefully he will see it and start to read it. I had never heard of the tithe article, so I'm going to go find it. I have other articles on the origin of hell, but I'd have to look for the links... Good luck with everything!

[Lilith]

Well, some here may think I am losing my mind, but my 24 year marriage to an ex-christian ended several months ago, and I, an atheist, am now madly in love with a christian. 

She knew from the beginning that I was an ex-christian.  I know she holds out hope that I will "see the light". 

She goes to church every Sunday morning (no Sunday evenings or Wednesday evenings, thank God). 

We don't talk about religion much.  I never bring it up, and make very few comments when she does bring it up.  I only comment when she asks me a direct question about religion.

We have been seeing each other seriously for almost 5 months.  I have not gone to church with her yet.  I will go soon, I am sure, for the simple reason that I love being with her, and I have told her that is the only reason I will go.

Wish me luck appellation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good luck bob.

 

I wish I could go to church just because I love him and want to be with him. I mean, I do love him and want to be with him, but the thought of church nearly gives me panic attacks. The mindset, the songs....how do I respond? Do I sing? Do I stand, but not sing? Do I sing, but only half-heartedly?? My god....20+ years of singing those songs in complete surrender to Jesus.....I feel sick to my stomach when I worry over how to deal with a simple worship service.

[bob]

I understand appellation. I am wondering how I will act while standing next to her.

I just love her so much. I could stand on hot coals as long as I could look over and see her.

I won't go every Sunday. But I will go every now and then, just to be with her.

Perhaps we just need to relax. Just relax. Let's do that...just relax.

appellation, don't worry over it, ok?

[♦ ficino ♦]

Dear Appellation and Gypsy,

 

My heart goes out to both of you. I don't have any concrete advice or life lessons to share. I don't see how you can live a whole life being false to yourselves, so it sounds to me as though you are doing right in being true to yourselves and standing with your husbands at the same time. So many religious groups are organized to devalue women. At least you are being yourselves, and your guys are still there. I guess the only thing I can really transfer from my own relationship of 23 years is what I think is the importance of being secure in your own skin to be there for the other person, or something like that.

 

cyberhugs,

[Guest Gypsy]

gypsy....Your situation is much more intense than mine. I hope/pray that my marriage never reaches that point and that yours reaches a point of peace, be it together or apart. It's heartbreaking to see religion tear families apart like this.

 

appellation, we had marriage counselling again this morning followed by a 2hour talk in the car before leaving the parking lot. h is really intent on making things work and has lots of hope and good intentions. at the bottom of things i have always had the belief that good can come from bad, things can always be turned around, etc. but i am at the point where i don't have the energy to envision or feel good for change and am not even sure that good always follows bad anymore. he is determined so we will see what happens. he says he has grown alot now and can accept and appreciate my different views on religion and not stress over the kids having different views either. my h might be a little more stubborn than yours, for us i think marriage counselling is the only thing that helps him understand. our next time we are to bring the 3 oldest kids in too for a family session.

 

Good luck with everything!

 

cyberhugs

 

thank you, kryten and ficino

[Lilith]

appellation, we had marriage counselling again this morning followed by a 2hour talk in the car before leaving the parking lot.  h is really intent on making things work and has lots of hope and good intentions.  at the bottom of things i have always had the belief that good can come from bad, things can always be turned around, etc. but i am at the point where i don't have the energy to envision or feel good for change and am not even sure that good always follows bad anymore.  he is determined so we will see what happens.  he says he has grown alot now and can accept and appreciate my different views on religion and not stress over the kids having different views either.  my h might be a little more stubborn than yours, for us i think marriage counselling is the only thing that helps him understand.  our next time we are to bring the 3 oldest kids in too for a family session.

 

thank you, kryten and ficino

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Perhaps....my husband refused to go to marriage counseling unless it was a fundamentalist pastor. There must be a god cuz it's a miracle we are still together. It's heartening to hear he says he can accept you and not stress over what the kids might choose. I hope my dh gets to that point.....soon.

 

 

ficino....thanks.

[been borg again]

applation/liberty chick,

I dont know what to say, its been a month since I havce logged onto the internet and guess what,

my fundy wife ran off with a guy (sex offender!), who broke up with her ( because she was being an asshole destroying my family) and is now out at all hours of the night fucking other men at bars and abandoning my daughter.

she is legally giving up parental rights tommarrow ( for a max of one year).

I cant beleive this is happening, my wife and I have been together for 15 years since high school, we hardly ever fought, and was always happy to see each other, and best friends.

She has also abandoned all her friends and family who are very pissed off at what she is doing. she wont even talk to her father who is very upset and normaly they talk all the time.

She just went Mr. Hyde on me and is gone crazy nuts!.

 

As it stands now, I will never get married again. I wish better luck for you, my life when into a shit hole in less than a week and here I am all alone at home with my daughter, while my supposed devoted fundy virgin wife desides to turn into the friendly niegborhood bar slut overnight.

 

why did this happen?

she is making more money than me for the first time in our relationship and working with slick salesmen all day.

now she is all of the sudden independent and carefree.

Screw that concept of " waiting until marriage" I think that had something to do with it. we married so young..Now She is living like some horny college girl now and forgot about me and her daughter!

Truth--stranger than fiction!

[spamandham]

Hang in there borg. That's some tough crap to have to deal with, but things do get better. I assume your daughter is not more than ~14?

[Lilith]

Oh borg hon...I'm so sorry. What a shock to read this.

 

*shakes head in dismay*

 

I do relate to what you mean when you say you will never get married again. I said that myself when I thought my marriage was doomed. Just this morning I was wondering if my dh would go all postal on me. No real reason to think this except that it crossed my mind (and he's started listening to Limbaugh again)

 

I wish there was something I could say to help or ease your hurt. You've always had such wonderful words of wisdom for me. My heart hurts for you. I'm so sorry.

[been borg again]

thanks for the sympathy Libby,

I am feeling really depressed right now cuz I just saw my wife a few minutes ago for the first time in two weeks since she came to the house to pick up some stuff.

Every time I look at her the emotional process starts all over again.

We had been together for such a damn long time, and all of the sudden she is doing things I never comprehended she was capable of.

I could write pages and pages of my thoughts, but I will refrain from doing so.

this is what it must feel like when a father has to let his rebellous daughter go and expereince the " real world" , knowing that she will end up hurt and broken in the end. My wife is so innocent ( and childish) in so many ways. It just breaks my heart.

It all comes down to Money, my wife just turned 30, and all of the sudden wants to play the gold digger . she has always been VERY materialistic. Her family, parents and friends are terrified and hurt as well.

Its as if she became a different person overnight.

I never knew someone had the capacity to be so selfish.

Last week her brother stopped by her work to say hi, he said its as if she was a completely different person. Some people are saying she is exibiting bi-polar or multiple personality. I dont know, but she has always been very ungrounded and emotional.

Its as if the past 15 years ( which I thought was a very positive relationship) never happened to her.

SHe exibited the same kind of strange behaviour for a year after we had our daughter. I rememebr the hospital called social services because they freaked out over my wifes attitude towards our newborn and they told me not to let my baby alone with my wife, for the safety of my daughter.

TO be honest my wife is ( pathologicaly?) immature and emotionaly underdeveloped, at the same time my wife had always ( so I thought)

treated me like we were the best of friends, always happy and excited to see me, even after so many years of marraige, she still had the same level of enthusiasm and ( nonsexual) physical affection as if we were new boyfriend-girlfriends.. thats what I loved about her so much.

And in one single night after she fucked that guy out of anger and rubbed it in my face, her personality has changed %100

I wouldnt wish this on my worst enemy.

[bob]

Been Borg, my thoughts are with you my friend. My 24 year marriage is in the process of ending. It has been about 3 months since I have seen my wife. She moved out of the state with my youngest son. There has been times I have actually felt that this is just all a dream, and I'll wake up any minute and things will be as they were. We separated almost 5 months ago, and I still have moments when I break down and weep. I was visiting with my parents a few weeks ago, and here I am, a 47 year old man, crying in front of his mother.

Oh well, all we can do is all we can do.

I am in a relationship with a wonderful woman now, and as much as I love her, I still have severe pain over the loss of my wife and best friend of 24 years. I don't think I'll ever recover.

[been borg again]

thanks bob for the input.

I never comprehended how people suffer with this sort of thing until I exsperience it for myself. I am sure ( I assume) you suffer from thoughts of blaming yourself. that is, I am dwelling upon all the things I could have done different. I never knew something like this could hurt so bad.

But I am determined to become the better person thru this, to learn , grow and learn. Its so hard, one moment I am crying, the next I am happy. But I am trying to keep a good perspective on this. I feel so alone, yet at the same time I know this is an opportunity to become better ( and less co-dependent) as long as I dont fall into the hole of Victim Mentality. Which is a constant struggle. but I think i am over the worst of it. Its been about a month since this happend. the first week I just laid on the sofa and cried for hours. but I am able to maintain a perspective that I can use this opportunity to change, grow ect. but I never knew learning life lessons would be so painful.

Right now I am so lonely, I am in a house by myself ( while my wife is out fucking who-knows-what and acting as if nothing is wrong) its so painful and difficult not to give into anger.

The hardest part is giving her up and not becoming controling ( which just drives her away more) Emotionaly I am a basket case, Intellectually I can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

thank God for Critical thinking , Logic and Reason, and a small dose of unitarian spirituality. Which is the only thing keeping me grounded. If I was still the idealistic ungrounded christian, I am certian I would have blown my head off by now since my entire understanding of Reality has been broken.

I hate emotions. its a constant battle.

thanks all of you for your support and sympathy, although we have never met in person, i understand on a very deep level we are all the same.

[Lanakila]

Ben Borg many hugs.

[Checkmate]

This is terrible. My heart goes out to you, Been Borg.

 

I won't even waste your time offering you advice in how to deal with this. Never faced this scenario myself, so I have no clue.

 

Yet I did know of someone years ago who faced the same problem. And the one thing that happened to him, I want to warn you about.

 

His wife did the same thing. Abandoned him and their kids for a man. Just up and left one day and left the state. After being gone for two months with no communication, she finally reappears with a LAWYER in tow to try and get HER children from him.

 

I don't know how this all played out as this was years ago, but if life is as unfair as it usually is, he probably lost those kids.

 

My advice to you is to somehow prepare yourself for this POSSIBILITY. I don't mean to scare you, but I don't want to see you get blindsided AGAIN.

 

Take care.

[Alice]

In relation to your children - my advice would be the opposite. Don't start anticipating battles - if you start drawing up your defences around the children and preparing for battle - there will be a fight.

 

The children are not and shouldn't ever become part of the fight between you and your wife.

 

The children don't belong to anyone except themselves and what it important here is what they want and how they feel. Most children want their parents back together, and if not - being civil to each other and being 100 % supportive of their (the children) relationship with the absent parent.

 

Let your wife go and do what she had to do. Maybe this is part of her de-conversion process. We all do it different. Although your anger is understandable it does sound like you are being a tad judgemental about the morality of her actions. You yourself have not always been exactly convential about sexual relationships if I recall correctly. You don't really know how she feeling inside - your perception of what her behaviour says about her, is just that - your perception. She might be unhappy and hurting inside as well.