Speaking in Tounges

[Christopher Carrion]

There are books and documents out there written by ex-spiritualists, mediums, evanegelists etc which document in specific detail the psychological techniques and conditions they use to induce in people the sense that they are experiencing paranormal or spiritual phenomena. Interestingly, they concorde quite specifically with the various rituals and ceremonies considered inherent to most churches. Every religious ceremony is designed specifically to induce in the participant a suggestive state of mind which, over the centuries, has become defined as a sense of "holiness". this is why people can be made to speak in tongues, or fall over as the spirit of the lawd passes through them; whether they consciously acknowledge it or not, they are simply conforming to what is expected of them because they feel obliged to, and because it feels instinctually satisfying to be inclusive in a group mentality.

[dulce]

There are books and documents out there written by ex-spiritualists, mediums, evanegelists etc which document in specific detail the psychological techniques and conditions they use to induce in people the sense that they are experiencing paranormal or spiritual phenomena. Interestingly, they concorde quite specifically with the various rituals and ceremonies considered inherent to most churches. Every religious ceremony is designed specifically to induce in the participant a suggestive state of mind which, over the centuries, has become defined as a sense of "holiness". this is why people can be made to speak in tongues, or fall over as the spirit of the lawd passes through them; whether they consciously acknowledge it or not, they are simply conforming to what is expected of them because they feel obliged to, and because it feels instinctually satisfying to be inclusive in a group mentality.

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That last sentence really sums it all up. Bunch of damn lemmings.

[spamandham]

Keyboards have enabled a whole new gift of the spirit called "typing in fingers". Uh oh, I feel it coming on....

 

lkjasdhgliuwdfgliuhdgliuhsrg;ilhflgkjfdv.skjfdhg;owhgfhgs;oiruhgsltiruhs;lughfsl

diugs;fduhgslfdghflkjhskjg.lkfshaljhlhg

 

Ok I'm all better now.

[dulce]

Keyboards have enabled a whole new gift of the spirit called "typing in fingers".  Uh oh, I feel it coming on....

 

lkjasdhgliuwdfgliuhdgliuhsrg;ilhflgkjfdv.skjfdhg;owhgfhgs;oiruhgsltiruhs;lughfsl

diugs;fduhgslfdghflkjhskjg.lkfshaljhlhg

 

Ok I'm all better now.

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[Guest aexapo]

Lately, I've been interested in this whole being-filled-with-the-holy-spirit-and-falling-to-the-ground-shaking-and-speaking-in-'tounges' bit, and was just wondering if there is there a chemical reaction in the brain that happens? Is part of the brain/human body reacting to an imbalance? Do preachers have some special technique they use to "fill somebody with the holy spirit" that causes them to do that (using pressure points, etc etc)? What causes some people to shake so violently that they look like they're having a seziure? Is it all just acting, people believing in something so much they want it to be real, so they just do it?

 

"Speaking in tongues" is a new phenomenon in modern Christian worship -- inherited from the Pentecostal/Charismatic movements and their "non-denominational" spin-offs. What is it? mimickry. They believe that "all that" is turning your body over to the holy spirit, and so they become suggestible, but themselves in a trance with all the "praise music" and physical activity, -- and "poof", you have someone acting just like everyone else in the crowd.

 

It isn't something inherent in us -- "speaking in tongues" in the bible died out in the early church, and was only resurrected 100 years ago in los angeles during the azusa street revival. It varies from congregation to congregation and from "spirit-filled" denomination to denomination -- each almost with their own dialect. For the more progressive churches, you'll have people trying to mimick what they think foreign languages sound like, or really bizarre clicks and sounds ("I'm praising Jesus in the ancient language of Troy!"), while in more primitive traditional Penty churches, it's more unified into a harmonic type of gibberish that almost sounds like a language (since they all garble the same way), but isn't ( "eee-ko-shondalamo-see-TAH!").

 

All of the bizarre activities -- especially in the more primitive pentecostal churches (UPCI, apostolic, holiness) -- are almost voo-doo like, and that's not an entirely incorrect assumption. The early Pentecostal churches were largely interracial (though that changed later on), and may have served as a catalyst to transfer some traditional African worship styles, spiritual attitudes, etc., into greater Christianity.

 

Check out ex pentecostal forums, a group I used to moderate. They're mostly Christian (a few freethinkers), but all of them reject the bizarre hypnotic, manipulative, and sometimes abusive influences of the Pentecostal movement in the lives of individuals -- spiritual or not.

 

http://p212.ezboard.com/bexpentecostalforums

(also linkable through ex-pentecostals.org )

[Ouroboros]

I think when the whole church is praying in tongues, there is a form of mass hysteria and hypnosis happening, just like the old tribal dances before going for hunt, or preparing for war with another tribe.

 

Pretty much the same thing. And the same goes for the worship too.

 

And people of course, then believe they get healed and stuff. Because it might trigger or release some mental blocks. I'm thinking especially about psychozomatic sickness.

[whatifidontwantausername?]

I would say that it was real when I did it, but I know that it wasn't. I knew then that it wasn't, though I tried to lie to myself. It is not bullshit though... it can be a deeply moving experience.

 

-Jake

[Christopher Carrion]

I'm sure it's a deeply disturbing experience, but I wouldn't worry too much about it; we all do stranger things every moment of our lives due to a culturally-conditioned imperative to "fit in". What modern Christians experience when they "speak in tongues" or whatever is simply macrocosmic of a wider and much more insidious (but necessary) psychological phenomena. Now, were they to speak in an actual, identifiable language rather than babbling nonsense baby-talk, that would warrant further examination.

[dulce]

I would say that it was real when I did it, but I know that it wasn't. I knew then that it wasn't, though I tried to lie to myself. It is not bullshit though... it can be a deeply moving experience.

 

-Jake

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You admit that you knew it wasn't real when you were doing it. You admit you tried lying to yourself. But then you say it isn't bullshit?!?!? That's the definition of bullshit if I ever heard it!

[ML13]

I use to start laughing when everyone started 'speaking in tongues' during the service.  But what really cracked me up was when someone in the audience would start interpreting what the person was saying.  What a bunch of bullshit!  Yeah right!  All it really is is that they put themseves into a hypnotic trance of sorts and then start babbling. Anything to make the preacher happy! **ohm**..................................

[whatifidontwantausername?]

For a few moments I thought I was speaking in tongues, then I realised that I was repeating the same babble over and over without knowing what it ment. That is how I knew it was bullshit, and this was probubly the first step on my road to deconversion. I suppose that confusion is the first step for many.

 

I remember reading in Leaving the Fold that glossolalia can be induced in people via an electric shock to their brain.

 

-Jake

[dynomatastic]

Glossolalia, eh? That's one helluvaword. I did a quick search on Wikipedia, and found this interesting:

Glossolalia is evident in the renowned ancient Oracle of Delphi, whereby a priestess of the god Apollo (called a sibyl) speaks in strange utterances, supposedly through the spirit of Apollo in her, but possibly related to high levels of natural gas present in spring waters beneath the temple. Glossolalia has also been observed in shamanism and the Voodoo religion of Haiti; it can often be brought on by the ingestion of hallucinogenic drugs or entheogens such as Psilocybe mushrooms. Skeptics dismiss these cases as simply being in a state of trance, self-hypnotism or religious ecstasy. It is notable that in Charismatic/Pentecostal Churches there has been a state of heightened emotionalism. Certain Gnostic magical texts from the Roman period have written on them nonsense syllables like "t t t t t t t t n n n n n n n n n d d d d d d d..." etc. It is believed that these may be transliterations of the sorts of sounds made during glossolalia.

 

At least shamans and voodoo priests can link it to drugs why they do it. I've been known to do some pretty stupid shit when intoxicated, and nobody can understand a damned word I'm saying with my slurred speech.

 

"...and because it feels instinctually satisfying to be inclusive in a group mentality." (sorry, not too good with this quote stuff). I did feel uncomfortable NOT speaking in tounges while everybody else was. I can see how somebody would just do it so they don't seem like an outcast. It is pretty easy to do--a 3 month old does it all the time when trying to communicate to their mother.

 

I'll defiently be checking out that ex-pentecostals forum. Thanks for the link.

 

I remember reading in Leaving the Fold that glossolalia can be induced in people via an electric shock to their brain.

 

-Jake

 

hah...I've got to look into that.

[Amethyst]

Unfortunately, what I was doing was mere babbling. I was quoting the first of the 93 sayable mantra mumbles I recalled from Samuel R. Delaney's sci-fi novel Triton! Fucking retards!

 

Did you try speaking Klingon, by any chance? Or Elven?

[I Broke Free]

Help me out here. I never belonged to a church that did the speaking in tongues thing. My mother once told me (so it is likely wrong) that it was the original language of Adam and Eve, is that right? If so, then shouldn’t everyone who does speak in tongues be speaking the same language? Has this been tested?

[Amethyst]

My mother once told me (so it is likely wrong) that it was the original language of Adam and Eve, is that right? If so, then shouldn’t everyone who does speak in tongues be speaking the same language? Has this been tested?

 

Now, now... Biblegod's will can't be tested. Besides, since when has logic ever applied to Christianity?

[shakinshoog]

bible talks about diverse tongues... to me that means they couldn't understand each others BABBLE. I grew up in an area of diverse dialects and experienced a potpourri effect of what it's like to have colloquialism shifts in dialects even between a matter of a few miles. If tongues were/are real... gota prove it to me babaaay. Standing, sitting, kneeling around tongue talkers and hearing everyone sound the same shaba daba doloahKamotive on hi-Ah got to be pretty disgusting, especially after noticing someone giving hand signals and people responding like turning it on and off... I'm tired of emotional manipulation and calling it spirit and gawhhhd!

 

I can shondala mo hi anyone with my eyes closed tight and bob around on one foot and have a hand in the air trying to swat flies, don't mean I'm genuine... anyone can pour on the tonuges or any emotional manifestation of some imaginary realm to promote propaganda...

 

 

if adam and eve talked tongues they were supposed to be diverse since bible mentions diverse tongues I guess, way back to babylon the tower erected and they were struck with babble to keep them from communicating yada yada... all language barriers to mystify modern man... you got myth, invisible god, intangible, strike people with some babble to prevent them from communicating so they cannot complete a building project to reach this unreachable gawd or in the NT cause them to babble with the least of the gifts that's so magnified it's turned into a golden calf in some cults. They use it to prove they have this magical spirit that indwells them and judge the rest of society as vagabonds and murders who don't have it and whooooooo people lust after it... if it's so glorious and good why does it corrupt and create a pit of intolerant people?

 

Stand around and sing "If That Isn't Love"

 

my question is why look for manifested mythical and magical gifts... why not be happy with being a basic human?

 

sorry for the rant - dealing with family who are tongue talkers I'm very anti-tongue talking

 

diverse: (d-vûrs, d-, dvûrs)

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=diverse

 

Differing one from another.

 

Main Entry: di·verse

Function: adjective

: differing from one another; specifically : differing in citizenship from another party to an action <a diverse defendant> —see also diversity jurisdiction at JURISDICTION —compare NONDIVERSE

 

 

Source: Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law, © 1996 Merriam-Webster, Inc.

 

diverse

 

adj 1: many and different; "tourist offices of divers nationalities"; "a person of diverse talents" [syn: divers(a)] 2: distinctly dissimilar or unlike; "diverse parts of the country"; "celebrities as diverse as Bob Hope and Bob Dylan"; "animals as various as the jaguar and the cavy and the sloth" [syn: various]

 

Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University

[shakinshoog]

To prove my point in church, I fucked with everyone by "speaking in tongues".  People prophecied and interpreted my utterances with gusto.

 

Unfortunately, what I was doing was mere babbling.  I was quoting the first of the 93 sayable mantra mumbles I recalled from Samuel R. Delaney's sci-fi novel Triton!  Fucking retards!

 

 

yeah you go!!!!

[Libertus]

IBF,

 

I did speak in tongues a lot. It comes in handy for the extensive prayer life that pentecostals are expected to have. You can only speak intelligibly for so long before you run out of things to say.

 

I'd say that different churches say different things. Since there is NOTHING in the bible to definitively support anything, they can just make up shit. My churches generally considered it the "tongues of angels" because of a contextually questionable scripture reference. I think that most consider it just a heavenly language that was lost and unlearnable by humans. Other times you may be speaking a language that is known, but not to you. There are plenty of variations to the BS.

 

Libertus

[Antlerman]

When I was in the Pentecostal church I would watch everyone coming to the alter and rocking back and forth rhythmically over and over while the music pounded, until they all began spewing forth in tongues and running, and screaming, and falling over. I remember feeling creeped out by it and felt ashamed that I thought it looked like public masturbation. This is supposed to be from God I kept telling myself, but it looked like they we're trying to get their rocks off in church! It literally was a group orgy. They just kept their clothes on. No shit.

 

One of a long list of reasons I rejected them.

[Guest Reesa]

I see it simply being in a state of trance, self-hypnotism, fake, trying to impress or some strange ass religious ecstasy...

 

Religous Ecstacy (((shudders))) now thats creepy!!!

[TruthWarrior]

When I was in the Pentecostal church I would watch everyone coming to the alter and rocking back and forth rhythmically over and over while the music pounded, until they all began spewing forth in tongues and running, and screaming, and falling over.  I remember feeling creeped out by it and felt ashamed that I thought it looked like public masturbation.  This is supposed to be from God I kept telling myself, but it looked like they we're trying to get their rocks off in church!  It literally was a group orgy.  They just kept their clothes on.  No shit.

 

One of a long list of reasons I rejected them.

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I saw the same type of thing in a pentacostal church me and my lady visited. When she saw them do that she freaked out and we had to go home.

 

I think there's a quote in the bible that says that it has that effect on people. It tells them to get interpretators for the babble so as not to scare non-believers away.

 

I could never get into the tongues game. One time at a youth convention they had us huddle in a tight circle trying to bring forth the spirit to speak in tongues. My friends eventually did it, but I never could, maybe I was too skeptic, too scared or something. I realized even then it was something that you have to be in the mood to do, a high emotional state, like spiritual exstacy. Some fake it from peer pressure, some really experience it, no one understands it, all it is useless babble even they dont understand. Pentacostals, and most all christians for that matter, are always on the search for some real physical evidence, something they can experience, to validate and confirm all their wacky beliefs. We used to go crazy back then with signs searching.

[dogmatically_challenged]

They believe that "all that" is turning your body over to the holy spirit, and so they become suggestible, but themselves in a trance with all the "praise music" and physical activity,  -- and "poof", you have someone acting just like everyone else in the crowd.

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I remember a very strong euphoria when speaking in tongues. I can't put myself in that state anymore. I was 11 years old the last time I spoke in tongues.

[aspirin99]

I used to attend the same Pentecostal church as Antlerman. That Pentecostal group (UPC) believed that being filled with the Holy Ghost was essential to salvation. You were not fully saved until you were filled with the Spirit, as evidenced by speaking in tongues (Acts 2:38) We were taught that speaking in tongues was sometimes the tongues of men and sometimes that of angels.

 

1 Cor. 31: 1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

 

So, if the tongues turned out not to be a man-made language (babbling gibberish), it was explained to be that of the Angels. Of course, this was disheartening since the tongues that were evidenced on the Day of Pentecost were in tongues of man. We wanted that same gift. However, all of the Spirit fillings I witness and experienced (yes, I used to do it), were always gibberish. I've prayed with people for hours at the altar while they begged God for this gift. We would chant, "Turn loose. Let God have control." Eventually, whatever psycho-physical phenomenon allows it would result in the person spouting gibberish in extasy.

 

So, coma see my tie tie, see my tie tie, yippie ki yeah, LOL.

[Antlerman]

I used to attend the same Pentecostal church as Antlerman. That Pentecostal group (UPC) believed that being filled with the Holy Ghost was essential to salvation. You were not fully saved until you were filled with the Spirit, as evidenced by speaking in tongues (Acts 2:38)  We were taught that speaking in tongues was sometimes the tongues of men and sometimes that of angels.

 

1 Cor. 31: 1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

 

So, if the tongues turned out not to be a man-made language (babbling gibberish), it was explained to be that of the Angels. Of course, this was disheartening since the tongues that were evidenced on the Day of Pentecost were in tongues of man. We wanted that same gift. However, all of the Spirit fillings I witness and experienced (yes, I used to do it), were always gibberish. I've prayed with people for hours at the altar while they begged God for this gift. We would chant, "Turn loose. Let God have control." Eventually, whatever psycho-physical phenomenon allows it would result in the person spouting gibberish in extasy.

 

So, coma see my tie tie, see my tie tie, yippie ki yeah, LOL.

 

Doesn't the Assemblies of God believe that too, that you have to speak in tongues as evidence of being filled with the HG, or do they have some particual twist that gets them out of that? (The Assemblies and the UPC were essentially the same group prior to 1914). It's just too freaky to believe I actually was part of that. What nonsence.

[spamandham]

So, coma see my tie tie, see my tie tie, yippie ki yeah, LOL.

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owatta goo siam, owatta goo siam...