THE QUESTION

[Skankboy]

What pressure your free to do what ever you want why waste time speaking out against Jesus if you think he is false, it seems like a great big waste of time if the whole thing is made up and you are free to live however you want in america.

 

Really? I can live however I want in America? What if I was gay and wanted to get married so my partner and I can enjoy all the societal benefits it entails? I believe you are the first Christian I've met that doesn't seem to be arguing that the US is a "christian nation".

 

Our drive is actually very similiar to yours (though I must admit this whole "spiritual" aspect you're are trying to insert is beyond me). You see us as being "lost", "decieved" and in need of correction. We feel the exact same way about the majority of religous people.

 

[Ouroboros]

Actually, Croesus, our hidden agenda (us, the evil atheist conspiracy organization) are trying to deconvert as many Christians as we can! Just because we know how "good" your religion is, and we just can't help but feel that we have to destroy anything "good" in this world!!! So you better watch out, before we start casting spells on you!

[Mythra]

C. If your not worried about then why do you go to a support group for X TAIN when you could be out playing golf or something?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

A. I'm not worried about it.

B. I will be - in two hours when I get off work.

C. You're a putz.

[Skankboy]

Actually, Croesus, our hidden agenda (us, the evil atheist conspiracy organization) are trying to deconvert as many Christians as we can!

 

Shhhh! You'll blow my cover...

 

But seriously, Croesus, would you be willing to define what you mean by "spiritual"? I find there tends to be as many definitions as there are people to define it and would like to know where you are coming from.

[All Gods Fail]

Whether it be ignorant or not it certainly is strange to always come up with excuse as to why its false.... If its false then why even worry about it?

Even though you dont recognize  that its spiritual battle in your mind and in thiers and they have to have proof,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So why worry about a lie? Is that what you're asking? We shouldn't worry about delusional thinking in our society, government, schools or arts? We should go skipping on our merry way, happy that we at least escaped the mindfuck of christianity and let fundies take over.

 

You, sir, are a moron.

 

I'd respond to the comment about spiritual battles in the mind, but I don't really understand what you're saying.

[Croesus]

So why worry about a lie? Is that what you're asking? We shouldn't worry about delusional thinking in our society, government, schools or arts? We should go skipping on our merry way, happy that we at least escaped the mindfuck of christianity and let fundies take over.

 

You, sir, are a moron.

 

I'd respond to the comment about spiritual battles in the mind, but I don't really understand what you're saying.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The thing is you are not content with the bible and that's why you fight against it, I know people that they say they believe in God and could care less about the bible or about evolution or any other subject, all they would just rather do is play golf or drink beer. The problem is that you are not content with the Bible that's why you always have to come up with something that's not definitive to prove the bibles wrong, why? to satisfy your own mind. Its a spiritual battle that's playing out, because if it truly didn't bother you, you would just go on and play golf or drink beer and could give a SH.. about anything going on.

 

But you do care about the subject and are always trying to find truth whether it be the truth or not, and you do the same thing and that is compare everything to the bible. I compare to show the Bibles right and you compare to show the bibles not right, your not content in what you believe thats why you kick against the pricks in your flesh and feel compelled to search for truth or some philosophy to explain away the bible. And that is the spiritual battle you are fighting..........

[Croesus]

To understand. To share thoughts. It matters. Otherwise, why are you here debating?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

If we all end up in the Grave and that the end of the matter, why waste your time debating? If I truly thought this was all that their was, I would be satisfying everything my flesh would desire. booze, women, gambling, fun in the sun, redneck yacht clubs etc.

 

But I see your piont it does matter because I know you truly believe that this is not the end of the matter when you die and if it's not the end, then what?

[Ouroboros]

If we all end up in the Grave and that the end of the matter, why waste your time debating?  If I truly thought this was all that their was, I would be satisfying everything my flesh would desire. booze, women, gambling, fun in the sun, redneck yacht clubs etc.

Why does it matter to you? If you're wasting your time asking us the questions, why do you ask why we ask questions? You're not following your own advice.

 

But I see your piont it does matter because I know you truly believe that this is not the end of the matter when you die and if it's not the end, then what?

Sorry mister, but you got it wrong.

 

I don't believe there is anything after death. I could be wrong. But I don't believe there is anything.

 

You mentioned "go golfing instead" earlier, then I may ask, if I at the golf club asks my buddy what they think of some brand name of clubs, and he starts telling me how crappy that brand name is. Would you come there and ask him "why are you talking about clubs you don't like anyway?"

 

The answer is: People want to know. People want to understand. For many de-converts, they spent years without being allowed to think, question or reason. Finally when they're out, they dare to ask the sacrilegious questions. They couldn't ask them before, but now they can. And they actually are more true in their quest of life than the Christian fundamentalists.

 

I'm astounded by how this is flying over you head, over and over again. The answer to your question is thrown at you repeatedly, and it just keep on passing you by, and you don't get it.

 

Sorry bud, but there's no hope for you, unless you start to seriously question your religion instead of us!

[Vigile]

If we all end up in the Grave and that the end of the matter, why waste your time debating?  If I truly thought this was all that their was, I would be satisfying everything my flesh would desire. booze, women, gambling, fun in the sun, redneck yacht clubs etc.

 

 

I guess we are just smarter than you then. Your simple mind finds pleasure in pure and simple hedonism, our minds find pleasure in intellectual discourse. Go figure.

[All Gods Fail]

Its a spiritual battle that's playing out, because if it truly didn't bother you, you would just go on and play golf or drink beer and could give a SH.. about anything going on.

 

But you do care about the subject and are always trying to find truth whether it be the truth or not, and you do the same thing and that is compare everything to the bible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

See, your problem is that you seem convinced that anybody who disbelieves wouldn't care about anything but booze and golf.

 

Again, to quote myself:

So why worry about a lie? Is that what you're asking? We shouldn't worry about delusional thinking in our society, government, schools or arts? We should go skipping on our merry way, happy that we at least escaped the mindfuck of christianity and let fundies take over.

 

Besides, you seem to be the one that's kicking against the pricks - if you really had faith, you'd be out saving the lost souls at the golf course instead of making circular arguments based on what your limited intelligence tells you about non-believers.

 

What is with your obsession with golf, anyway?

[All Gods Fail]

PS - you're still a moron.

[Eponymic]

The thing is you are not content with the bible and that's why you fight against it, I know people that they say they believe in God and could care less about the bible or about evolution or any other subject, all they would just rather do is play golf or drink beer. The problem is that you are not content with the Bible that's why you always have to come up with something that's not definitive to prove the bibles wrong, why? to satisfy your own mind. Its a spiritual battle that's playing out, because if it truly didn't bother you, you would just go on and play golf or drink beer and could give a SH.. about anything going on.

 

I am not content with letting others believe in a mythological writing as spritual fact. That is what I'm not content with. The Bible is what it is, it's not the book it's self that's the problem, it's the stock that people put in it.

 

As far as drinking golf & playing beer, that's sounds to me like just a touch of stereotyping and minimalizing what you don't really understand.

 

But you do care about the subject and are always trying to find truth whether it be the truth or not, and you do the same thing and that is compare everything to the bible. I compare to show the Bibles right and you compare to show the bibles not right, your not content in what you believe thats why you kick against the pricks in your flesh and feel compelled to search for truth or some philosophy to explain away the bible. And that is the spiritual battle you are fighting..........

 

 

Some may still try & compare things to the Bible, but I certainly don't. I compare things to universal and/or spiritual truths, known facts, and other well reasoned matters using as much knowledge as I have available to me. You are the one who is stuck having to try & compare everything to the Bible. Don't try & throw you're sad lot on us, because it just isn't true.

[Mythra]

If we all end up in the Grave and that the end of the matter, why waste your time debating?  If I truly thought this was all that their was, I would be satisfying everything my flesh would desire. booze, women, gambling, fun in the sun, redneck yacht clubs etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If a belief in Jesus is the only thing that keeps you from going off the deep end, I'd stick with it, dude.

 

Some of us are able to control ourselves without relying on a make believe controlling authority figure.

[Ouroboros]

If a belief in Jesus is the only thing that keeps you from going off the deep end, I'd stick with it, dude.

 

Some of us are able to control ourselves without relying on a make believe controlling authority figure.

Yup. It's a matter of growing out of childhood. A Moral Guiding Religion is for people that are not strong enough to be moral without their Holy Book and The Big Sky Papa telling them what to do. Only people that have matured emotionally and increased their knowledge and intelligence, can break themselves free from the bondage of a Heavenly Dick-tator.

 

***edit***

Kind of expecting heat for this one!

[Ouroboros]

This is actually an interesting thought:

 

Could Croesus live morally without God? No, he couldn't.

So does he need God? Yes, he do.

 

Could I live morally without God? Yes, I can, because I do.

Do I need God? No, I don't.

 

So in the respect of comparing strength and ability to maintain an ethical and moral lifestyle, I consider myself a more moral person than Croesus, since I don't need a Sky Daddy busting my chops to keep me in line.

 

(more heat coming)

[Kryten]

If a belief in Jesus is the only thing that keeps you from going off the deep end, I'd stick with it, dude.

 

Some of us are able to control ourselves without relying on a make believe controlling authority figure.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

See, now THAT's something Christians cannot comprehend! They all seem to think that the only thing that keeps man from killing each other and screwing everything that moves* is the mighty and loving Leash of God. Without God of the Bible®, whom we all KNOW exists, we would be criminals and care nothing about anything but ourselves. If we no longer believe, what's to keep us from becoming adulterers, criminals, or evolutionists**???

But they can delight in the knowledge that deep inside we are really miserable-- despite how we appear or what we say...

 

* Sorry to those necrophiliacs who may feel slighted by that ommision.

** I know that's a made up term, but I used it anyway.

[All Gods Fail]

It took me awhile, but now I get it:

 

1 Corinthians 15:32

If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for tomorrow we die.

 

That's what's bugging him - if we don't believe in the word of god, why we aren't all off eating and drinking (and golfing) in hedonistic abandon like the bible says?

 

Man, to think I used to have my head full of that crap still amazes me.

[Ouroboros]

It took me awhile, but now I get it:

That's what's bugging him - if we don't believe in the word of god, why we aren't all off eating and drinking (and golfing) in hedonistic abandon like the bible says?

 

Man, to think I used to have my head full of that crap still amazes me.

You're right. He still judge us, not from the observations and the answers he gets, but from the Bible verses that have it completely wrong!

[Mythra]

How bout this one, from Luke 11

 

"When an evil spirit goes out from a man, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. Then it says 'I will return to the house I left' When it arrives it finds the house swept clean and put in order. Then it goes and takes seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go and live there. And the final condition of that man is worse than the first."

 

Just more bible verses that we can call bullshit on, based upon experience.

[Checkmate]

Okay. The theme from Croesus lately has been "Why do we bother to refute Christianity? Why do we care? Why don't we just go golfing?"

 

I've read many posts attempting to explain to him, apparently with little effect. I'd like to take a stab at it now.

 

Simply stated, "All that is needed for evil (Christianity) to triumph, is for good men (non-believers) to do nothing."

 

THAT is why we care. THAT is why we just don't go golfing, drinking or fornicating. (Not that we don't have better things to do with our time. What? You think that THIS is all we do?)

 

If we made the mistake of remaining silent about religion/Christianity, then Christians would face ZERO opposition as they take over our society. Like it or not, Croesus, but RELIGION is our "enemy". And if we do NOTHING/remain silent, then YOU win. We can't allow that.

 

Fact is, you Christians just won't go away! You're like the fucking Energizer Bunny®. You keep going and going and going. It is YOU who won't quit coming onto OUR forum to engage us in debate. It is YOU who desperately seek to disprove US and shut us down. WE never sought YOU out. NON-believers don't go around spreading our NON-gospel. If YOU never came to this web site, YOU would never have heard from us. So don't you DARE try and silence us. You don't want to hear what we've got to say? Then go the fuck away. Trust me. We won't seek you out to continue the debate. No one will e-mail you, nor attach a tract to your doorknob. WE would NEVER come bother YOU.

 

If YOU Christians would simply shut up and keep your religion to yourself, then WE wouldn't have a problem with you. But you don't keep your religion to yourself. You shove it in everyone's face. You lie and tell people it is "wonderful". You desire to take over the world. But we know the truth and WE won't allow it.

 

A few hundreds of years ago, the church controlled entire societies. And ANYONE who spoke against Jesus/God was MURDERED. People like me would be arrested, tortured and killed for my unbelief. They were NOT free to speak out against Jesus.

 

Times have changed. And now that the sword has been removed from the church, and you can't kill me, now you seek to muzzle me with some weak ass Jedi Mind Trick? Bullshit. I have a voice, and I owe it to the atheists who died to win me this right of free speech to speak out against the stupidity and tyranny of Christianity.

 

So you can quit trying to trick us into allowing you free reign to pollute the world with your nonsense. We won't shut up. We won't go away. So long as YOU remain, then WE remain. When YOU (Christians) go away, then we'll be silent. But until then, prepare to be opposed.

 

NOW do you understand WHY we care? NOW do you understand why we speak out against your religion? We are obligated to speak the truth and thus oppose you. If you don't like it? Too fucking bad. We aren't going anywhere.

[BeccasStillSeeking]

This is actually an interesting thought:

 

Could Croesus live morally without God? No, he couldn't.

So does he need God? Yes, he do.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Um...Croesus doesn't live morally even WITH God. He has no compassion in his nature and doesn't discipline himself towards it--and like many of his ilk, he's got an enormous ego. How can he possibly live morally?

[Mythra]

The thing is you are not content with the bible and that's why you fight against it, The problem is that you are not content with the Bible that's why you always have to come up with something that's not definitive to prove the bibles wrong

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Dude. Please, please tell me that you are not really this shallow.

[Ouroboros]

Um...Croesus doesn't live morally even WITH God. He has no compassion in his nature and doesn't discipline himself towards it--and like many of his ilk, he's got an enormous ego. How can he possibly live morally?

Very true. But to make the argument about "God is needed for morality", Croesus need God to help him reach some level of decency (which doesn't seem to work too well), while most people here live without God and keep a very high moral and ethics. And the reason is that we not only have escaped the bondage, but we have matured beyond the need of a religious belief to help us become moral. We've reached "the Jesus mind", without needing Jesus anymore.