Do You Believe In Spirits?

[sergei29]

How do you forget...how do you move on with you life thinking that there is no Christian God who wants you to follow the Bible, and spread the Gospel, etc...how do you rationalize stuff like that, even if it makes sense in your mind, something is still telling you that it must be true and Christianity is the only way of life...even after reading many arguments on this site and first believing them, i am back to 'feeling' that my 5 years as a Christian exposed me to the true God, and his Bible is still the book to follow. Even if it doesn't make sense logically, u know that 'feeling' when u just know or think u do? How do u ignore that and move on? i need some advice here!

[Vomit Comet]

How do you forget...how do you move on with you life thinking that there is no Christian God who wants you to follow the Bible, and spread the Gospel, etc...how do you rationalize stuff like that, even if it makes sense in your mind, something is still telling you that it must be true and Christianity is the only way of life...even after reading many arguments on this site and first believing them, i am back to 'feeling' that my 5 years as a Christian exposed me to the true God, and his Bible is still the book to follow. Even if it doesn't make sense logically, u know that 'feeling' when u just know or think u do? How do u ignore that and move on? i need some advice here!

 

Sergei, my last few years in the fold (I was in for 13 years) I went so far as to tell people that "I wish it wasn't true. I wish I could walk away and deny my experiences. I wish it wasn't true."

 

Can you identify? Have you ever said to yourself "I wish it wasn't true. I wish it wasn't real."?

 

Well, if so, that is your starting point.

[sergei29]

that was what started my de-conversion..."I wish it wasn't true" exact same words!!! I hoped it wasn't a reality and when I found this web-site and other info against Christianity I cringed to every one word of it because I wished it wasn't true. Now my brain won't let go of the experiences I had and can't just forget, something is still telling me that what I have experienced was the one true God, and Christianity is what he wants from me.

[Vomit Comet]

that was what started my de-conversion..."I wish it wasn't true" exact same words!!! I hoped it wasn't a reality and when I found this web-site and other info against Christianity I cringed to every one word of it because I wished it wasn't true. Now my brain won't let go of the experiences I had and can't just forget, something is still telling me that what I have experienced was the one true God, and Christianity is what he wants from me.

 

Consider that many other religions have similar experiences. People entering "higher states", seeing and interacting with spirits (including spirits recognized as "evil" or "unclean"), getting "messages" from a god, prophecying, etc. etc. All the loony batshit stuff you see in Pentecostalism, something similar goes on in other religions ranging from Hinduism to certain Islamic sects to ooga booga tribal religions to you-name-it.

 

In fact, hard-ass anti-"gifts of the spirit" people like the Southern Baptists will often point that out to try and portray Pentecostalism/Charismaticness as being bunk.

 

So consider that the shit you've seen, heard, etc., isn't unique to Christianity. The content may be unique, but the fact that there was shit to see and here is not unique.

 

This knowledge helped me a lot in the earliest stages of my deconversion, when I was about where you are.

[sergei29]

good to know. thanks for the reply. i wanna talk to my muslim friend and find out about her religion, and see if they have stuff like that, and if she witnessed it first hand, and that can help me put my mind at ease even more.

[Vomit Comet]

Early Islam had all kinds of freaky shit: demons, djinns (genies), and so on and so forth. A lot of people in the Islamic world, especially older, more rural, or more uneducated people, are still very superstitious about such things. When Mohammed was visited by the angel Gabriel, he freaked out at first because he thought he was being harassed by a demon, but his sister convinced him it was an "angel" from the Judeo-Christian world.

 

Also, there are sects of Islam, such as the Sufi, which get into all kinds of kooky mystical lunacy that probably parallels Pentecostal type stuff.

 

Hindusim. If you know any Hindus who happen to know a lot about the history/culture of their religion, that'd be a good place to ask.

[Rubyfruit Pixie]

Count me in the realm of "I don't know", but maybe there are multiple spirits/deities/Greater Beings around. I don't quite know. I probably never will. But hey, it's a Maybe-Maybe Not sort of thing with me.

 

At this point, though I call myself Agnostic, I think I'll read up on other spiritualities to see what fits.

[Foxy Methoxy]

I believe everything is divine, therefore nothing is divine. I believe God is everywhere and therefore, nowhere. I believe everything is perfect and therefore, nothing is perfect.

 

And I believe grammatically correct comma placement is a sticky wicket.

[par4dcourse]

A total of 3 people have died in the house into which we recently moved, 2 were buried in the backyard 'till they invented city cemetaries.

I sleep like a baby.

[Foxy Methoxy]

I sleep like a baby.

 

You crap yourself and wake up crying?

[Deadego7]

The only poll result I generally believe in is the ghosts being former beings. Spirits are long gone and past and ghosts stay trapped on the physical realm. There is way to help them past the physical realm...but even that can sound sketchy to me. 

 

I've had my many personal experiences with ghosts and voices, and even seeing them in my own home. And I always made sure that it could be a product of my anxiety and fear.

 

I've been too doctors who can't seem to say I have any mental issues, except emotional because of my being adopted and having a family that kinda lies a lot. So really...seeing a full-body apparition did it for me and made me freaked out if it really was real. I don't see it anymore...but I'm never going to forget it.

 

And I understand I'm on the slippery slope because I believe and I try to justify my experiences, but I'm also trying to keep myself skeptical about them. And yet...there are just some visuals and certain situations that just prove to me that it's not always completely mental.

[par4dcourse]

I sleep like a baby.

 

You crap yourself and wake up crying?

Never seen my wife, have you.

[Foxy Methoxy]

 

Poor wife

[Guest QuidEstCaritas?]

good to know. thanks for the reply. i wanna talk to my muslim friend and find out about her religion, and see if they have stuff like that, and if she witnessed it first hand, and that can help me put my mind at ease even more.

 

 

I believe they are known as "Djinn".

[Guest QuidEstCaritas?]

I know Spirits reside physically within the neuronal network of my brain.

 

Do I "believe" they exist?

 

Of course they exist, and the existence of "God", "Jesus", "Zeus", "Allah", "Jupiter", "The Blessed Virgin Mary", and "Minerva" are all very real.

 

They literally exist, but I am doubtful they exist outside of my head and the heads of others....

 

That's the problem I have, and it's a big one .

 

So sure, spirits exist. To say otherwise would be denying the evidence.....

 

 

 

What's even weirder is that I know that Jesus exists but I don't have the evidence for it!!

 

Shucks, looks like I'm going to have to wait awhile before science progresses enough so that I can get that darned evidence...

 

Monism can be such a bitch, but thus far I have no reason to feel otherwise even though I don't truly know whether it's true or not. So I guess I will just keep waiting for that evidence, hehe.

 

It's good to know that it's not just all in my head though....

[☆ TexasFreethinker ☆]

None of the above for me - I haven't seen sufficient evidence to believe that anything supernatural exists. I do think there are awesome natural things we haven't yet discovered.

 

I see deed people (my office is near a title company).

[Guest QuidEstCaritas?]

None of the above for me - I haven't seen sufficient evidence to believe that anything supernatural exists. I do think there are awesome natural things we haven't yet discovered.

 

I see deed people (my office is near a title company).

 

I was being silly.

 

Think about it

 

(Hint: I could have said Santa exists in the place of any of those deities)

 

And no, I don't believe anything supernatural exists either .

[☆ TexasFreethinker ☆]

None of the above for me - I haven't seen sufficient evidence to believe that anything supernatural exists. I do think there are awesome natural things we haven't yet discovered.

 

I see deed people (my office is near a title company).

 

I was being silly.

 

Think about it

 

(Hint: I could have said Santa exists in the place of any of those deities)

 

And no, I don't believe anything supernatural exists either .

Hi QEC, I was referring to my poll choice "None of the Above", not to your post.

[Guest QuidEstCaritas?]

None of the above for me - I haven't seen sufficient evidence to believe that anything supernatural exists. I do think there are awesome natural things we haven't yet discovered.

 

I see deed people (my office is near a title company).

 

I was being silly.

 

Think about it

 

(Hint: I could have said Santa exists in the place of any of those deities)

 

And no, I don't believe anything supernatural exists either .

Hi QEC, I was referring to my poll choice "None of the Above", not to your post.

 

 

oh, oops.

 

[OpheliaGinger]

Atheist and a believer in ghosts? Just a little article in a blog about a writer.

[RevOxley_501]

as a former exorcist it is really difficult for me to explain alot of the things i

have seen and felt....

 

You too, eh?

 

I'm in the same boat, and it perturbs me.

 

 

 

that one still bothers me as well. I can disbelief pretty much anything, but I read about a lot of demon possession, oppression, etc., and people could only find freedom through Jesus.

What do you think of that?

 

 

sorry to get back to this so late, but in truth exorcism works in many different religions, my understanding is that the demonic will respond to whatever god is important to the host...

[Vomit Comet]

sorry to get back to this so late, but in truth exorcism works in many different religions, my understanding is that the demonic will respond to whatever god is important to the host...

 

That was one thing that helped me with my deconversion. I met this ex-christian pagan who told me that their version of spiritual warfare (well, more like spiritual defense, I should say) was every bit as effective as Pentecostalism's was, if not more so. Also, realizing that a lot of the same bat-shit crazy shit was going on in Hinduism and many other religions, and that Christianity certainly didn't corner the market in engaging the spirit world.

 

That said, the possibility that (evil, or unclean) spirits might actually exist is very unsettling. I mean, shit! I can't say that my scientific curiosity extends to that realm any longer. I really don't want to know, you could say. It's kind of like when you read short stories of the Cthulhu Mythos, and the protagonists (who frequently come to a horrific end) are often repeatedly warned to get away from interfering with that shit while there's still time to escape. I read one of Stephen King's contributions to it, about some guy in the 1850s who insisted on remaining at his New England ancestral mansion that he had recently moved into, despite all the horrible fucked up shit that was happening and despite the repeated warnings from the locals that were old enough to remember what befell his grandfather, great-grandfather, etc. I kept thinking "dude, if I were you, I'd get the fuck outta there!"

[Skankboy]

sorry to get back to this so late, but in truth exorcism works in many different religions, my understanding is that the demonic will respond to whatever god is important to the host...

I'm no expert, but that sounds pretty psychosomatic to me...

[Guest algorithm]

What you're really seeing when you watch a pentecostal/charismatic preacher is a hypnotist at work

.Examples

I could come up with many articles. But a quick internet search will turn up many articles. I've seen both at work. I've seen stage hypnotists induce somebody to speak another language and then somebody else

interpret. About half of all therapists working in counseling are also trained in hypnotherapy. It can be used to recovery lost memories, or induce false ones. Surgery has been performed on people under suggestion, with no pain reported. Women have

also given birth under suggestion, with no pain reported. It can be used to remove the symptoms of certain types of illness, especially of the psychosomatic

variety. Brain scans of Buddhist monks in deep meditation and a hypnotized person are exactly the same. The brain scans are also the same for

pentocostals when they are "speaking in tongues". In fact "speaking in tongues" is just a form of self-hypnosis, which is why it usually consists of saying the

same thing over and over again. It's very similar to Japa meditation. I won't go into all the details of hypnosis. But just to cover the basics. It is basically

overloading/distracting the logical (frontal cortex) parts of the brain in order to give the person to the more primitive (non-critical) parts of the brain. The

person then enters what psychologists call a "stage of suggestibility", where they will basically take anything said to them as fact. If you say, "I have a

hamburger for you", they will smell a hamburger (I've actually experienced this). The main methods of hypnosis used in Christian are the "shock and awe"

method and the "sensory overload" method. When a pastor screams in someone's face(shock and awe, distracting the logical parts of the brain) and then

says something like "fall over"(inducing the suggestion). This is what you are seeing. The sensory overload method is not as powerful(there are

different "depths" of hypnosis), but it works well for neurolinguistic programming/brainwashing. For example taking a group of men on a retreat (away

from outside influences), requiring fasting 2 meals a day (tiring the body also tires the mind, increasing suggestibility), and listening to an insane amount of

information for 6 hours straight (sensory overload). This more mild method, but very effective, is usually used to gain foolishly loyal members.

[florduh]

An excellent quote from Dhampir on another thread, and my response to it seems appropriate here:

 

Now what I mean to say with that is that no matter how old an observation is, we always KNOW something about it. Our knowledge may be limited, but we know something, and as time passes we learn more and more till we have a sharp picture of what it is. The idea of the soul on the other hand, has been around for at least the last 10,000 years, and WE DON'T KNOW ANYTHING now, that we didn't know 10,000 years ago. We're asking the exact same questions now that we did back then. Outside of things that are withheld from ALL observation and interaction (such as being integrated into our physical being), if it exists, we should have some concrete info about it by now. Come on, it's been 10,000 years at least.

 

That was so well put, I just thought it needed to be repeated. You have summed up the entire kingdom of woo with that. For the word "soul" you can substitute ghosts, demons, or psychic phenomena of any description.