Dealing with the bible's hate speech

[daniel_1012]

 

I can just see it now... 

 

God sitting in front of his computer, getting online (I'm sure that he already has ExChristian.net bookmarked), pulling up our posts and asking, "Why was it that you refused to receive the Truth that daniel_1012 was placing out before you?"

Yeah, Danny, that's pretty much what you just said. 

 

Feel stupid much?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You think that because we are posting on a board, that our words will escape Him? He knows our thoughts, and you think what is done here will escape Him? What I posted had to first cross my mind in thought... so how is it that you suppose this would not fall in the realm of God's knowledge?

 

Believe me when I say this, but God being all knowing -- He doesn't have to use the same median (such as the internet) in order to observe what is going on. No, I don't feel stupid at all... do you for grievously underestimating the meaning of "all knowing?" Indeed you do, as you should. Your conscience has be seared with a hot iron, and is in desperate need of repentance towards God.

[MQTA]

yea and a great way too get followers too stay in it is to tell them their going too hell if they dont. i hear the i dont wanna go too hell excuse everytime i ask a person why they go too church. i wonder how popular christianity would be without satan and hell.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Followed almost immediately with the Pascal wager.

 

Which is usually followed with a large grin and hysterical laugher. They're so predictable

[Fweethawt]

You think that because we are posting on a board, that our words will escape Him?

Umm... Yes! And it's not because he isn't listening/watching either.

 

He knows our thoughts, and you think what is done here will escape Him?

See answer above.

 

What I posted had to first cross my mind in thought...

A short trip, Im' sure.

 

so how is it that you suppose this would not fall in the realm of God's knowledge?

Because He isn't there.

 

Believe me when I say this, but God being all knowing -- He doesn't have to use the same median (such as the internet) in order to observe what is going on.

Oh, and you know this, how?

 

No, I don't feel stupid at all...

That's all I asked you. However, I knew the answer before you gave it. Perhaps I, am all knowing?

 

do you for grievously underestimating the meaning of "all knowing?"

You've been pwnd on this already.

 

Indeed you do, as you should.

Making these types of comments gives you a woody, doesn't it Danny?

 

  Your conscience has be seared with a hot iron, and is in desperate need of repentance towards God.

A "conscience" is contained in the mind. The closest a "hot iron" ever got to it was while I was doing my shirts.

 

Would you like to try that again?

[crazy-tiger]

Conversion or not, I am providing ample evidence that could someday be pointed to when you are shown all the times you were shown or told, but did not receive.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you working at being a twerp or does it come naturally?

[Asuryan]

Now then, the parts that he suggested ripping out are either true or false.

 

If they are false, then I wonder if we are gonna run around and rip out the pages of all books that we deem false.  Is this the sort of fascist nonsense we really wanna be advocating on a 'freethinking' website?  It is censorship, pure and simple.

 

If they are true, then I wonder if destroying truth is really what 'freethinking' is all about?  Maybe it is, I'm sure I don't know.

 

Those are your two choices.

Which one do you chose?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

First of all, I can't see *why* we should choose between your two choices.

 

They don't make sense. The problem is not "the bible is true" "the bible is false" or "those parts are true" "those parts are false". You are simplifying the real problem, devoiding it of any sense. Which suits you just fine, right? If I asked you "It's 6:00 PM or 8:00 PM there? You have two choices, you choose now", and it was 2:00 AM where you live, what would you choose, huh?

 

The problem as I see it lies in the bible being presented as the One, True, Unerring word of god. A thing which doesn't happen with other books such as Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings or Perrault's faerie tales. There is nothing wrong with fiction and imagination, as long as you treat fiction like fiction and not as if it was something absolutely true, that cannot be objected or doubted, and that provides you a moral code that you must follow or suffer in hell forever.

 

The bible is a work of fiction, and as of now, no one has ever been able to prove differently. So, it should be treated as all works of fiction are. NOT taught in classes as if it was truth or factual informations. NOT pressured over all the medias by a group of people that decided to believe in it just because they have been trained since they were born to believe in it.

 

Would you like to live in a nation ruled by the Congregation of Harry Potter's Churches, would you like to have your rights limited by those people (such as, NO using brooms for cleaning, as HE useth brooms for flying, and it would be a sacrilege... or pledge your allegiance to the flag of the Sacred Lightning Symbol?), would you like to see children who don't know better receive an education where they are convinced that they need to believe in Harry's divine magic wand and its allpowerful might... OR ELSE they will burn in voldemort's hell forever?

Would you like that, Daniel? And you, Madgerbil?

Sounds like a demented dream to you, right?

And for us, it is a demented dream to live in a christian nation, for the exact same reasons.

 

I doubt you will understand what I'm saying, because you will probably reply "but God and the bible are true! Harry potter is so obviously false!".

Well, here's some news for you, buddy. Your christian god is as true to us as harry potter is to you, maybe even less than that.

[Asuryan]

Is this the sort of fascist nonsense...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Newsflash: Mussolini was a fervent Christian and he was considered a saviour by the Church. He shared a lot of points of view with the church, such as the old colonial mindset ("go, invade, bring them your culture and religion, they will be thankful later!"), and accepted lots of suggestions from the church during his dictatorship (i.e., preventing a Psychoanalisis school to be founded in Italy, because it promoted "heathen" researches and thoughts).

 

Look up at Fascism on a dictionary, or better an encyclopedia. It could broaden your horizons. History teaches us that you christians are (or have been?) the Fascists, not us atheists. At least here in Italy, the few atheists that there were at the time, took up arms and became partisan guerrilla forces, fighting against the oppression.

[Asuryan]

I suppose then that you are for the destruction of all religious texts.  How do you feel about US Law since that tells us how we must live as well?

 

Not "destruction".

Just "clear identification of the bible as a work of fiction and nothing else".

Burning books because of their "dangerous" content is a church tradition, not an atheist tradition, sweetie

But I'm sure that the christians would be very happy if atheists started crying for the bibles to be burned out at the stake. After all, what better occasion to make all atheists look bad, to throw on us the skin of the big bad wolf?

 

Prolly should be since more than one atheist on this site has suggested that I shouldn't be allowed to teach my children Christianity. 

If an atheist thinks that christianity is damaging and dangerous,

AND he can bring you lots of evidence, both philosophical, pedagogical and historical, to show you that in fact christianity IS dangerous...

then YES, he fully has the right to tell you that you shouldn't be allowed to teach your children Christianity.

 

and as long as you:

DON'T counteract the points that the atheist makes about christianity being a dangerous and noxious religion,

You definitely have no right to get hysterical or angry.

You are here to debate, this is a debate forum, and if you don't want to debate just go away, it's that simple. Why staying here if you don't want to debate?

 

Also, every athiest government of which I'm aware is also a huge suppressor of civil rights.  The track records of atheist government and civil liberty is horrible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

UK shows us that you are wrong.

France shows us that you are wrong.

Holland shows us that you are wrong.

Finland, Sweden and Norway shows us that you are wrong.

Spain shows us that you are wrong.

enough for you?

[Asuryan]

I'm not afraid of anyone here pushing for censorship.

I'm yanking your chain for entertainment.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

We are exchristians. We got free, remember?

You are god's lapdog. You have a chain starting from your neck and going straight to god's invisible, unexistant hand. Not us.

Now stop barking and try thinking for just once!

[Guest aexapo]

I wonder what America would be like without crime or prison.  America is based on freedom and justice.  To ask, "what would America be like without justice," I just don't know how to answer, because it really wouldn't be America.

 

I give you the Pledge of Allegiance:

 

I pledge allegiance to the flag, of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands.  One nation, under God, indivisible; with liberty and justice for all.

 

Christianity without Satan or hell, wouldn't be Christianity -- it would be something else entirely.  Though, I don't think heaven would be that far off of that...  Christianity, as it is, will not be necessary in heaven.  Christianity without hell would be like America without justice.  They are indivisible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Doesn't this make you all warm and cuddly? Jesus wouldn't be ole' lovin' Jesus if he didn't keep you by the promise of eternal hell-fire.

 

"Oh, how I love Jesus,

Oh, how I love Jesus,

Oh, how I love Jesus,

Because he threatens me!"

 

Sounds like an abusive spouse . . . who wants to live with THAT for all eternity?

[Asuryan]

You think that because we are posting on a board, that our words will escape Him?  He knows our thoughts, and you think what is done here will escape Him?  What I posted had to first cross my mind in thought... so how is it that you suppose this would not fall in the realm of God's knowledge?

 

Believe me when I say this, but God being all knowing -- He doesn't have to use the same median (such as the internet) in order to observe what is going on.  No, I don't feel stupid at all... do you for grievously underestimating the meaning of "all knowing?"  Indeed you do, as you should.  Your conscience has be seared with a hot iron, and is in desperate need of repentance towards God.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hmm.

So let me try and figure it out...

Let's say that I die. And that you are right and your christian god exists. An angel with rigid cardboard wings and some sort of pajama brings me (all naked) in front of a giant guy with a dress, sitten on what seems to be an huge and blatantly uncomfortable stone throne.

Of course my first instinct is to cover my nakedness, but then I realize that the giant guy has got no eyes, so he cannot see me at all, (and even if he could, he would probably be more offended at my lack of a veil over my head than at the lack of a thong over my pussy) and I relax again. Meanwhile I wonder why with his wonderful powers he should need a throne to sit upon, and if he does need a throne, why don't make it one a bit more comfortable. With, you know, a pillow,a cushion, something. And then his booming voice distracts me from my idle thoughts.

"Depart from me, ye cursed, into the lake of fire etc etc."

So I ask him "Why?"

And he answers "Because Daniel_1012 told you that I did exist, and you didn't listen to him!"

And I say in turn "well, duh! the day before, MohamedGuy_111 told me that you don't exist and that in fact the one true god is allah. And two days before, another guy told me that the real Messiah is one named Rael that has been visited from aliens. Why should I have listened at Daniel_1012 more than I listened at the other two guys?"

And then god goes "Um."

He scratches his chin, then remembers he has got no chin.

He combs his hair with his fingers, then he remembers he has got no hair.

He absently scratches his nose, but then... well you understand the point!

I ask again "There are hundreds, no, thousands of religions on the earth, and you are saying that just ONE of all those thousands was the right one. Now how could I've known that? Everybody say that they have the truth! It's not that on daniel_1012 head there was a halo or he was floating 3 meters above the ground or something!"

God is puzzled. Over his head hovers a big "?". Meanwhile his angels look at him with dismay and confusion in their eyes. The lady has a point, they're thinking.

Then god speaks again in a voice as booming as ever.

"I am the truth and the way and so on. No one shall..."

"Cut the booming voice crap, I know that you are doing it just to intimidate me."

The angels are shocked and in disarray: how can that young lady, with a look so common and more than just a couple kilos overweight, face god without any fear? An archangel whispers *maybe it's because she knows she has nothing to lose, as god will throw her into the lake of fire anyway.* the angels nod collectively.

"And don't change the subject. I just asked you, HOW was I supposed to know that daniel_1012 was right, and that his religion was the right one?"

God is silent. An anime-style drop of sweat goes down his left cheek...

"Well?" I ask him.

And then God makes a gesture and I go straight into the lake of fire to be tortured forever and ever and ever more. Of course: he doesn't HAVE to answer my questions or even make sense, right?

God grumbles at the angel with the cardboard wings: "Look, next time another cultured atheist dies, just bring him or her into the lake of fire without bringing them in front of me. I don't like it when they point at the flaws in my reasoning. Got it?"

"Got it, my lord" answer the angel, sheepishly. And with that, he flies away.

 

Now, do you understand why I'm not worried at all?

If god exists and is all knowing, he knows what it's going on, and he knows that you are just a guy in an ocean of other guys that claim to know the truth, and you have nothing that differences you from the rest of the mass. You are like everyone else, everybody with a quick recipe to avoid the fear of death.

Of course, I think that god doesn't exist, so I'm not "Underestimating" anything, and I don't see where you got the idea that my conscience is seared or anything: I am a pretty decent person, I think.

 

On a side note:

Sorry for so many consecutive posts, but there were too many posts I wanted to address, and I didn't want to press everything together in a single answer post... also because usually, Xtians take THAT as an excuse to answer just ONE of your points with some quoting from the bible (so, not answering) and then ignore the rest.

[daniel_1012]

Doesn't this make you all warm and cuddly?  Jesus wouldn't be ole' lovin' Jesus if he didn't keep you by the promise of eternal hell-fire.

 

"Oh, how I love Jesus,

Oh, how I love Jesus,

Oh, how I love Jesus,

Because he threatens me!"

 

Sounds like an abusive spouse . . . who wants to live with THAT for all eternity?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

He doesn't threaten me, He threatens you because you hate Him.

[crazy-tiger]

He doesn't threaten me, He threatens you because you hate Him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Two points...

 

1st, anyone who says "believe in me or I'll burn you for eternity" is threatening you, whether you think they are or not.

 

2nd, for us to hate God, we'd have to believe he exists... which we don't.

 

 

 

 

I ask again, are you working at being a twerp, or does it come naturally?

[Celsus]

Conversion or not, I am providing ample evidence that could someday be pointed to when you are shown all the times you were shown or told, but did not receive.

 

 

Threats of hell fire and damnation are about as effective as threats of going to Atlantis. Hell, Atlantis, Lemuria, Kolob et al, are FICTION. Daniel, substantiate (1) Your deity can possibly exist using logic/evidence, then (2) Your deity does exist and finally (3) Your particular theology reflects this deity. Until you can do all three, no one has any reason to consider your deity and theology as real, in the same exact way that you do not consider Thor to be real.

 

Bruce

[MQTA]

Unless it's Thorsday, hey, that's today

[Checkmate]

He doesn't threaten me, He threatens you because you hate Him.

Why do we bother?

 

"God" doesn't threaten any of us, either, danny-boy. I'm about as afraid of god's wrath as I am afraid that Santa has me on his "naughty list". I hate "god" about as much as I hate Allah, the Wicked Witch of the West and the Easter Bunny.

 

Do you get it yet?

 

What I DO hate is the blatant IDIOCY of people who insist on believing fairy tales, living their lives according to these fictions AND demanding that I join them in their delusions! I hate religious people (such as YOU) who threaten me with "divine" wrath from their imaginary friend, just because I won't kiss his invisible ass, or bow down and lick his invisible feet.

 

THAT is what I "hate". Stupid people, with stupid beliefs, who export those beliefs to other people. Religious people who utilize fear and guilt as cudgels to promote their irrational "faith".

 

Daniel, if YOU want to believe in god and Jesus, be my guest. Only KEEP IT TO YOUR FUCKING SELF! The rest of us adults have rational lives we would like to live.

 

Sheesh!

[MQTA]

Go Grinch! Go Grinch! Go Grinch! Go Grinch!

[All Gods Fail]

What I DO hate is the blatant IDIOCY of people who insist on believing fairy tales, living their lives according to these fictions AND demanding that I join them in their delusions!  I hate religious people (such as YOU) who threaten me with "divine" wrath from their imaginary friend, just because I won't kiss his invisible ass, or bow down and lick his invisible feet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What Grinchy said.

[Mythra]

 

I AM THE GREAT AND POWERFUL GOD.

 

PAY NO ATTENTION TO THAT MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN.

 

IT'S ONLY DANIEL.

[Mythra]

Christianity without Satan or hell, wouldn't be Christianity -- it would be something else entirely.  Though, I don't think heaven would be that far off of that...  Christianity, as it is, will not be necessary in heaven.  Christianity without hell would be like America without justice.  They are indivisible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So, you see suffering for all eternity, just because you believed the wrong thing to be "justice"?

 

Let me prophesy for a second, Daniel. Here is some truth and justice for you.

 

This is you as you lie on your deathbed.

 

"Oh boy, Oh, boy. I'm getting ready to see my Lord. I'm going to heaven. To see my Jesus.

 

To see my Jesus.

 

To see my Jesus.

 

To see my Je..

 

To see my ..

 

To see ..

 

To ..

 

T..-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------