PandaPirate Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 As others have said, you really need to do some reading and research on the subject of evolution, yoyo. Science says we have 'branched, become ancestry, part of' the primate species, and that we are primates. I say we are not. Primates are not a species. Exactly. Primate is an ORDER. It goes like this YoYo. Scientific classification, or Taxonomy if you will, is as follows from largest to smallest: Kingdom Phylum Class Order Family Genus Species Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PandaPirate Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 The facts of scientific data do not change, how we read that data may give us more information about our theory, but the data does not change. Currently the data tells us that evolution did work in the past, is working in the present, and it will continue to do so as long as some kind of life remains on this planet. I understand your stance Heretic. We stemmed as primates in ancient times, right? We have evolved into the race we are today right? through millions of years of evolving, right? The data, that exists for me having a ape, chimp, whatever ancestry is, ....absolute? No, it's not. It is an educated guess of the start of mankind. Everyone is saying that thisand that about the evidence and data of science, and I should research, read more etc; but what I contend is simple. I was not connected to any other animal; I am a human being that shares qualities of these other animals. But, in short of having a time machine to go back and see it personally; it is all educated guess work. It is a guess, as far as were man came from. Is the notion that man evolved as a primate, an absolute? I don't think it is. So, what could make it absolute. Making an ape, chimp, whatever pregnant from a human sperm, that would be strong evidence? Right? So, we rip apart everything else in life for research and study, Why not a pregnant 'other direction evoloved' primate? Um, you believe in DNA right? Well, I hate to tell you this but humans and chimps share nearly 98% of their DNA. Thus, it is PROVEN. In addition to that fact, Francis Collins, one of the scientists responsible for decoding the human genome not only accepts Evolution but is a Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorpion Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 What would be the purpose of breeding humans with chimps? What ethical justification would there be for subjecting such an offspring to the life it would most likely lead? I wasn't offering a justification for it, I was merelly providing an analogous experiment - two species that are so close evolutionarilly that they can interbreed, but not so close that their hybrids are not sterile (viable). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorpion Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 What does ethics have to do with science right? We are all animals, so lets be the animals we came to be. I say screw all the fluffy, duffy, ethical hogwash and lets do some.. real science Do I hear an Amen? What does ethic have to do with science? Well... In short, both are products of reason. Science is reason applied to how the world works, ethics is reason applied to how we should act. If you read the first philosophers, for whom my admiration is unending, you see that they talked about everything: good, evil, the world, earthquakes, matter, truth. Basicly they devised an amazing method: they took everything we thought we knew or took for granted and systematicaly broke it down and dismantelled it to reach the core truth within it. They called it Philosophy, the Love of Knowledge. Then they applied it to everything they could get their hands on. Some prefered to take on the working of the physical world. Others prefered to look at the metaphysical: the concepts of good and evil, of truth and beauty. Somewhere in the early modern era, Science split off Philosophy, but it's core was the same: Reason. Why is reason required for ethics, or moral behaviour? Because to have moral behaviour you need to recognize the other as an equal to you, you first have to recognize yourself. To recognize yourself you need to reason: "I think, therefore I am". Most animal do not recognize themselves on mirrors. When they see their reflection, they believe it to be other animals. They do not recognize themselves. We do. And when we see other animals such as ourselves, we see people just like us, but seperate. And we wonder "if I don't like X, maybe they don't like it either". We have just derived one of the oldest rules in the book: "don't do to others what you wouldn't like done to yourself"! So you see, we can't just do whatever we like because we have reason. Granted, it's not 100% effective (I'm looking at you, Holocaust!), but I guess only enthropy and Death are... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Marty Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 and taxes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhampir Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 What would be the purpose of breeding humans with chimps? What ethical justification would there be for subjecting such an offspring to the life it would most likely lead? I wasn't offering a justification for it, I was merelly providing an analogous experiment - two species that are so close evolutionarilly that they can interbreed, but not so close that their hybrids are not sterile (viable). Oh, I know that. It was actually more in answer to Yoyo's question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PitterPatter Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Hmmm...this is some craziness. Do you guys really think YoYo is sincere? Or could poe's law apply?? http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/Poe%27s_Law Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Marty Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Hmmm...this is some craziness. Do you guys really think YoYo is sincere? Or could poe's law apply?? http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/Poe%27s_Law Unfortunately, I do think he is sincere. But not in learning or discussing evolution. He is only sincere in his uneducated position and nothing much else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PitterPatter Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Hmmm...this is some craziness. Do you guys really think YoYo is sincere? Or could poe's law apply?? http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/Poe%27s_Law Unfortunately, I do think he is sincere. But not in learning or discussing evolution. He is only sincere in his uneducated position and nothing much else. Sad for him...when I was fundy I didn't accept human evolution either, but couldn't deny the evolution of everything else even though my parents told me to. But to keep that up I just avoided any information about it. And he has it all being thrown in his face right here and still manages to stick his fingers in his ears and shout, "LA LA LA!" Must be tiring... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PandaPirate Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 People see the word "evolution" and think "monkey". I understand. Nobody wants to be made a monkey. I wouldn't mind being a Lemur. Lemurs are cute (I know Lemurs are prosimians, not monkeys) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 I like to move it, move it. I like to move it, move it. I like to... move it! Julian: Shh! We're hiding. Be quiet everyone. That includes me. Shh! Who's making that noise? Oh, it's me again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PandaPirate Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 I like to move it, move it. I like to move it, move it. I like to... move it! Julian: Shh! We're hiding. Be quiet everyone. That includes me. Shh! Who's making that noise? Oh, it's me again... Do not be near the King's feet!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 "I told you about the feet. Didn't I tell him about the feet, Maurice?" "Yes, you did, King." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PandaPirate Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 I want to study the Lemur but I'm not sure Primatology is a field I would like...Cultural Anthropology would allow me to travel to the Amazon and live with tribes and take entheogens as "field research." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abiyoyo Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 Chimps possibly breed with human ancestor, which this one says...., early humans looked like chimps. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...6051702158.html What probably happened was that some of the evolving human ancestors bred with the evolving chimps. This was perhaps not as strange as it seems, for although there were some physical differences between the two groups, "the early humans must have looked pretty much like chimpanzees," said Mallet, the London geneticist. I feel like I'm missing something here, and nobody's really helping. I always thought human evolution and evolution of our world was two different things. I do believe the world evolved into what it is today. I do believe that humans have evolved into what they are today. I do NOT believe that we were evolved from something else, or branched off from any other specie. I guess this topic is kinda moot altogether, because I believe God made human beings I think what got everybody in a frizzy was when I was trying to explain that the idea, scientific inquiry, scientific speculation, theory; these words have all been used in terminology when it comes to describing evolution of man, and their possible migration. I don't know maybe I'm missing something. Those that gave advice, in regard to my questions, thanks. Those that vented, I apologize if the thread offended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PandaPirate Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 YoYo, Evolution can really be confusing at first. But let me give you two names to help you. Go to YouTube and learn from Christian Theists who are also Evolutionists if that will make you feel comfortable. One is Ken Miller and the other is Francis Collins. Evolution is not a theory in terms of a "I have a hunch" type of theory. It's a Scientific Theory that is as factual as gravity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PandaPirate Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Oh and YoYo, here's another video by Carl Sagan: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted March 16, 2009 Super Moderator Share Posted March 16, 2009 Yo Yo, to clarify . . . Do you think life in general evolved along the lines of accepted evolutionary theory, but a simple human was separately created and then began to evolve? If so, why would you think that? Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abiyoyo Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 Yo Yo, to clarify . . . Do you think life in general evolved along the lines of accepted evolutionary theory, but a simple human was separately created and then began to evolve? If so, why would you think that? Just curious. Yes! Somebody finally understands me As far as why I would think that, I really don't know. Maybe as Legion said earlier, maybe I feel special or something. It's not really even God, or religion; because I used to think this way before I was religious. I just didn't see it that way. But, like alot here said, there is much toward the contrary of my belief, in science and data; then for it. Dunno. Pointless thread I guess for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted March 16, 2009 Super Moderator Share Posted March 16, 2009 Okay! You just need to think humans are even more special than science indicates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Maybe as Legion said earlier, maybe I feel special or something. Don't worry Yoyo. I think you're special too... ... in a special olympics kind of way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorpion Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Yo Yo, to clarify . . . Do you think life in general evolved along the lines of accepted evolutionary theory, but a simple human was separately created and then began to evolve? If so, why would you think that? Just curious. Yes! Somebody finally understands me As far as why I would think that, I really don't know. Maybe as Legion said earlier, maybe I feel special or something. It's not really even God, or religion; because I used to think this way before I was religious. I just didn't see it that way. But, like alot here said, there is much toward the contrary of my belief, in science and data; then for it. Dunno. Pointless thread I guess for me Interesting... So, if I understand correctly, you're saying that you believe humans were somehow "set apart" from the other animals due to our abilities to speak and reason? Just an interesting scenario I imagined: how would you react to a creature that was obviously was not human (say, an alien) but evidenced characteristics we define as human, like those I mentioned above? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abiyoyo Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 Just an interesting scenario I imagined: how would you react to a creature that was obviously was not human (say, an alien) but evidenced characteristics we define as human, like those I mentioned above? I would then say aliens are real Nah, I don't know scorpion. You mean if we discovered another creature with human characteristics currently living among us, or have lived at some point? It all depends on a more descriptive scenario I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 YoYo, as someone else already suggested, read 'The Ancestor's Tale' by Richard Dawkins. It is a backwards journey through evolution. Evolution can be difficult to understand. When i left the faith i knew nothing about it because it isn't taught much at all in public school. I'm still reading up on it and taking in as much evolution material as i can. Read up on it and you will gain a better understanding of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathlene Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Maybe as Legion said earlier, maybe I feel special or something. Don't worry Yoyo. I think you're special too... ... in a special olympics kind of way. ok thats another spurt out the drink on keyboard moment..!!! yo-yo no offence to you buddy, but that was classic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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