Interview: India

[SkepticOfBible]

Madras/Chennai

I have to tell you, your avatar is interesting to me. 

 

Maybe you wouldn't mind answering some of the cultural questions since you  know it and I just experienced bits of it.

 

Tap

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Sure. Fire away. I was a hindu before but I don't believe in it though(Since I was 12 or 13). but I am really interested in religion in general

 

Pritish

 

PS: The avatar is from this website.

[Totallyatpeace]

PS: The avatar is from this website.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So I figured. It belongs to our resident wizard.

 

 

Just make sure you hold on to that hat!

 

 

 

 

 

Have you had any desire to go back to India? To remain there?

 

Why did you leave the Hindu religion?

 

but I am really interested in religion in general

 

Same here. All kinds or none at all.

[Merlinfmct87]

So I figured. It belongs to our resident wizard. 

Just make sure you hold on to that hat! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yeah, make sure indeed. People are always stealing mine... *snicker*

 

Merlin

[Reach]

Yeah, make sure indeed. People are always stealing mine... *snicker*

First Chef, then you. What is it about your avatar that is so appealing, anyway?

 

TAP, you've got mail. I'll catch you a bit later.

[Totallyatpeace]

Thanks for sharing your experiences, TAP

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Thank you, Madame M.

[Merlinfmct87]

First Chef, then you. What is it about your avatar that is so appealing, anyway?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Aw, come on, Reach! It's just... well...

 

It's so cool!

 

Seriously, though. It's just the nicest wizard avatar. All the others just didn't fit me.

 

Merlin

[Totallyatpeace]

It isn't the Wizard.......

 

 

....it's the hat.

[Reach]

TAP,

 

Quicksand sent me a question about the girls in the orphanage/homes. He asked that while girls save up their own money for a dowry, who helps them arrange their marriages? Is that handled by the adults who run the homes or do they go through a marriage broker? Also, is it more likely these girls from the orphanages might end up in "love-marriages?"

 

You may not be able to answer those questions, not having been there that long, but there you are.

 

Since you expressed an interest to me in the writings of Gandhi, I'd like to move our discussion in that direction. As you are buried in work, today, I'll look for you tomorrow for a question or two.

 

I appreciate the time you have given to this discussion.

 

Reach

[Totallyatpeace]

TAP,

 

Quicksand sent me a question about the girls in the orphanage/homes. He asked that while girls save up their own money for a dowry, who helps them arrange their marriages? Is that handled by the adults who run the homes or do they go through a marriage broker? Also, is it more likely these girls from the orphanages might end up in "love-marriages?"

 

You may not be able to answer those questions, not having been there that long, but there you are.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't know the answer to this for certain but if I remember the conversation I had correctly, the girls don't save up the dowry, the guardians/parents do. And most likely, with 40 "daughters", it won't be that much of a dowry.

 

It was also my understanding that they would follow culture and have arranged marriages. That system works well for them and I heard enough disagreement regarding "love" marriages that I can't imagine it would be anything but arranged.

 

I never heard anything about a marriage broker. This is a family decision. You may want to ask Kevin and pritishd more about that.

[SkepticOfBible]

you had any desire to go back to India? To remain there?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, I left India cause I am 3d animator, and CG animation is not big in India. So it's mostly job wise. I did my finishing school from outside India so I am pretty comfortable with foriegners.

 

For me, it doesn't matter. I like to go back to India, but the indrustry pretty sucks there.

 

Besides I like living outside India, it's more safer and you have more respect for your work you do. And plus the standard of living is better for animator here than in India

 

 

 

Why did you leave the Hindu religion?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Like many christians I grew out of it. As I studied socialogy, psychology and other sciences i realised that all of these were just stories. However in my opinion I think we all have a spiritual side, but the way you practise is upto you.

 

 

Pritish

[Alice]

I came in contact with him  because I was staying at a hostel. The people staying there were of all different faiths or no faith and from different countries.  In the evening, dinner was served from 7:30-9:30pm and you could eat at any time during those hours. I had come in late one evening and was in the dining room alone. He walked in and asked if he could join me and I said "sure".

 

He sat down and looked up at me and his first words were......

 

"I want you to know that I don't believe in any gods." 

 

I just looked up at him  and wondered why that was his opening statement. I said......

 

"I want you to know that I believe there is One God. Do you still want to have dinner with me?"

 

The conversation was bazaar as he proceeded to tell me that he believes we are all "god" when we do good works.  So if I help an elderly person cross the street.....from this man's POV, I am god at that moment.  Then we talked about Hinduism for a while and he called himself a Hindu, which again, made no sense to me from what little I know about it.  He was just an interesting person to spend time with.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This encounter of yours has been hanging about in my head ....

 

 

I have for some time been playing around with the idea of writing a novel inspired by my fav Goethe quote.

 

"The conflict of faith and scepticism remains the proper, the only, the deepest theme of the history of the world and mankind, to which all others are subordinated"

 

Now - that meeting of yours IS the way my two central characters should meet.

[Reach]

TAP, from some photos you shared with Loren and me, I thought I would ask you about this one which I've taken the freedom to post.

 

I think it's quite fitting that you titled this image Hidden Treasures. What can you tell us about this picture? What did you find hidden there?

 

I have been anxious to ask you what is the greatest treasure you brought back from India? Lest I be misunderstood, let me make myself perfectly clear: I don't mean souvenirs. Have you had enough time to distill from your memory-rich experience and recognize what is the greatest treasure that you have brought back with you? Perhaps, a bent or tweaked philosophy, any new angle on life, any special insight, etc... I would expect that you would return with a sense of gratitude but I want to refrain from putting words in your mouth.

 

What hidden treasure did TAP dig up?

 

Hidden Treasures

[Totallyatpeace]

TAP, from some photos you shared with Loren and me, I thought I would ask you about this one which I've taken the freedom to post.

 

I think it's quite fitting that you titled this image Hidden Treasures. What can you tell us about this picture? What did you find hidden there?

 

What hidden treasure did TAP dig up?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I suppose with all the poverty I had seen, coming across the simplistic beauty of this little hut........it was just what I needed to see. Contrast that hut with this:

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?showtopic=3200&hl=

 

I didn't find anything hidden there. The hut itself was the hidden treasure.

 

I have been anxious to ask you what is the greatest treasure you brought back from India? Lest I be misunderstood, let me make myself perfectly clear: I don't mean souvenirs. Have you had enough time to distill from your memory-rich experience and recognize what is the greatest treasure that you have brought back with you? Perhaps, a bent or tweaked philosophy, any new angle on life, any special insight, etc... I would expect that you would return with a sense of gratitude but I want to refrain from putting words in your mouth.

 

I'll answer this very honestly. I am having troubles understanding how the very rich (like the link above) can live like they do, knowing that if they cut their wealth in half and gave to those with nothing, a real dent in poverty could be made. If they cut their wealth in half, they would still be rich.

 

Like I said in an earlier post......it's very easy to look the other way and say "It's not my problem." But I think I came back knowing that I couldn't just use words of concern anymore. I needed to give more of myself. I'm not sure in what way I'll do that, but the answer will come as I think this through.

[Reach]

The hut itself was the hidden treasure.

Somehow, I knew you'd say that.

 

Like I said in an earlier post......it's very easy to look the other way and say "It's not my problem."  But I think I came back knowing that I couldn't just use words of concern anymore. I needed to give more of myself.  I'm not sure in what way I'll do that, but the answer will come as I think this through.

 

If I asked you, how is TAP different today than TAP from a month ago, would that be your answer?

 

In a different thread, (posted here), you mentioned to me privately that you "so wanted to comment" on this post I made.

 

Here's the post:

Here are a few statements from Mahatma Gandhi, with the conclusions he came to.

 

Gandhi was asked what he thought of Christianity and whether or not he had ever considered becoming a Christian.

 

Gandhi: My association with Christians dates from 1889 and there was a time in my life when I sincerely considered Christianity as my religion. In my pursuit, I met many a scholars and thinkers, who while having a profound effect on me, were not able to convince me. Although I admire much in Christianity, I am unable to identify myself with the orthodox Christianity. I must tell you in all humility that Hinduism, as I know it, entirely satisfies my soul, and fills my whole being.

 

The missionaries come to India thinking that they come to a land of heathen, of idolaters, of men who do not know God. My own experiences all over India have been on the contrary. An average Indian is as much a seeker after truth as the Christian missionaries are, possibly more so.

 

Please do not flatter yourselves with the belief that a mere recital of that celebrated verse in St. John makes a man Christian. If I have read the Bible correctly, I know many men who have never known the name of Jesus Christ, men who have even rejected the official interpretations of Christianity, but would nevertheless, if Jesus came in our midst today in the flesh, be probably owned by him more than many of us. My position is that it does not matter what faith you practice, as long as the soul longs for truth.

 

---------------------------

 

Gandhi: A man (Jesus Christ) who was completely innocent, offered himself as a sacrifice for the good of others, including his enemies, and became the ransom of the world. It was a perfect act.

 

I consider myself a Hindu, Christian, Moslem, Jew, Buddhist, and Confucian.

 

I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.

 

If Christians would really live according to the teachings of Christ, as found in the Bible, all of India would be Christian today. Freedom and slavery are mental states. Almost anything you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it. All business depends upon men fulfilling their responsibilities. There is nothing that wastes the body like worry, and one who has any faith in God should be ashamed to worry about anything whatsoever.

 

---------------------------

 

According to Christian doctrine, Gandhi is in hell. Why? He could not identify with orthodox Christianity. The rejection of Christ speaks of an inability to identify with Christ or Christianity.

 

---------------------------

 

Without getting into another cross-examination over hell doctrine, which I think would be non-productive at the moment, what are your thoughts on any of the above? What would you have us understand about your views?

 

I'm also looking for your thoughts in this direction: What opinions would you share on the condition of Christianity in the west? What changes do you think are necessary for Christianity to "remain viable?"

[Totallyatpeace]

If I asked you, how is TAP different today than TAP from a month ago, would that be your answer?

 

In a different thread, (posted here), you mentioned to me privately that you "so wanted to comment" on this post I made.

 

Gandhi: The missionaries come to India thinking that they come to a land of heathen, of idolaters, of men who do not know God. My own experiences all over India have been on the contrary. An average Indian is as much a seeker after truth as the Christian missionaries are, possibly more so.

 

Please do not flatter yourselves with the belief that a mere recital of that celebrated verse in St. John makes a man Christian. If I have read the Bible correctly, I know many men who have never known the name of Jesus Christ, men who have even rejected the official interpretations of Christianity, but would nevertheless, if Jesus came in our midst today in the flesh, be probably owned by him more than many of us. My position is that it does not matter what faith you practice, as long as the soul longs for truth.

 

---------------------------

 

Gandhi:  A man (Jesus Christ) who was completely innocent, offered himself as a sacrifice for the good of others, including his enemies, and became the ransom of the world. It was a perfect act.

 

I consider myself a Hindu, Christian, Moslem, Jew, Buddhist, and Confucian.

 

I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.

 

If Christians would really live according to the teachings of Christ, as found in the Bible, all of India would be Christian today. Freedom and slavery are mental states. Almost anything you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it. All business depends upon men fulfilling their responsibilities. There is nothing that wastes the body like worry, and one who has any faith in God should be ashamed to worry about anything whatsoever.

 

 

I'm also looking for your thoughts in this direction: What opinions would you share on the condition of Christianity in the west? What changes do you think are necessary for Christianity to "remain viable?"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

How have I changed in the past month? I'm simply more aware of my surroundings and trying to figure out what to do next and how to bring change. I don't have an answer......... yet.

 

On Gandhi........

 

Without a doubt I believe that Christianity's biggest enemy is Christians themselves. The reason Christians are hated so much is because our faith teaches us to go into all the world (including your next door neighbor) and preach the Gospel to everyone. I believe that Mormons and JW's are probably disliked almost as much for the same reason. However, Christians have made that more their religion than loving the way that Christ loved. Instead of preaching the Gospel they are preaching legalism and spending endless amounts of time in battle with each other over doctrine that is not considered pertinent to one's salvation.

 

Christ shared his message in a hands-on approach and reached out to the least and the last......those that nobody else would touch. We are suppose to be doing the same thing.

 

So when Gandhi says: "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." he is partly correct. I agree with him with the exception of calling it "Christians" as a whole. There are many Christians that live their life as Christ did and have given up much to do so. It would be no different than me calling all Atheists evil...(which some Christians do), when I know it not to be true.

 

Regarding Gandhi being in hell.........I don't believe he is in hell any more than I believe that Mother Teresa is in hell. But I also don't have scripture to back that up. I just refuse to believe it and someday I'm hoping God will explain it to me through a broader understanding of His Word or after I die. As you know.......hell is an open topic for me right now and will remain so until I've studied thoroughly.

 

The condition of Christianity in the West is an interesting topic on it's own. When I was in India I attended a church service there and during the service they had a couple come up and talk about their long term mission trip abroad that they were about to go on. They were going to America......and according to them, it's a HUGE mission field. Their mission was to reach the "christians" who have lost their way. I'm not talking about Ex-Christians....I'm talking about practicing Christians who are messed up in their doctrine. Anyway.....I had to chuckle at that inside. By the way.....their goal is to teach Christians how to really love the way Christ did.

 

For Christians to remain viable they need to quit fighting amongst themselves and start being the hands and feet of Christ.

[Reach]

Let's pick this up Monday, TAP.

 

I know you need to break for the weekend. So do I. Have a good one.

 

-Reach

[Fweethawt]

Let's pick this up Monday, TAP.

 

I know you need to break for the weekend. So do I. Have a good one. 

 

-Reach

 

Friday, September 2, 2005

 

[Totallyatpeace]

We decided together that it was enough.

 

Tap

[Christopher Carrion]

Missionary work? How revolting. I do not deny that there is much palpable "good" missionaries and missionary based organisations actually achieve in certain countries, but why do you need some intangible archaic parent-figure looming over your shoulder and threatening you with Hell to demonstrate a little common humanity? IMO the whole missionary phenomena is symptomatic of the ultimate agenda of Christianity and biblical ideology as a whole to do away with the iffy business of cultural variety and spiritual/intellectual freedom and subsume all of humanity beneath its ideological totalitarianism.

[Totallyatpeace]

I suppose that would depend on what your mission is.

 

Thanks for your thoughts.

[Panther]

I just read through the thread. I would like to sincerely thank you, Tap, for so willingly sharing your experiences with us.

 

I have always desired to travel to different countries and learn more about their cultures. While I have not done so yet, reading about other's encounters is the next best thing.

 

(and I loved the pic of the hut. So peaceful!)

[Reach]

Let's pick this up Monday, TAP.

 

I know you need to break for the weekend. So do I. Have a good one. 

 

Friday, September 2, 2005

 

What can I say? We like loooooooooong weekends?

[SkepticOfBible]

Regarding Gandhi being in hell.........I don't believe he is in hell any more than I believe that Mother Teresa is in hell. But I also don't have scripture to back that up. I just refuse to believe it and someday I'm hoping God will explain it to me through a broader understanding of His Word or after I die. As you know.......hell is an open topic for me right now and will remain so until I've studied thoroughly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hi There TAP,

 

It is surprising that as a christian you are saying that Gandhi is not in hell. Why do you say that? According to the Protestant Christian World view he is a sinner, and punishment for Sinner is hell.

 

http://www.carm.org/40_objections/40-1.htm#_1_1

http://www.carm.org/40_objections/40-2.htm#_1_15

 

Christians love to say "No amount of good work will save you from Hell. Only faith in Jesus can. "

 

As for unbeliever there is good verse for you

 

John 3:36

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him.

 

And according to christians hell is the wrath of god

 

http://www.losingmyreligion.com/essays/realityofhell.html

 

By the way I got that John Verse from the Chick Tract. It is pretty cheesy

 

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0037/0037_01.asp

 

I believe according to the protestant world view even Mother Teresa is in hell cause she is believing in false doctrines. But off course according to christians we send ourselves to hell not god

 

Pritish