I Think I'm Permanently Screwed Up.

[OpheliaGinger]

Jedah mentioned most men dont believe in BBW - just curious but what does BBW stand for?

 

Big Beautiful Women

[OpheliaGinger]

I have heard some men say they like the "chunky butt," and then there are other men who say, "Pussy is pussy."

[Kathlene]

Firstly Jedah or whatever the hell your name is you are sick. Telling a woman things like this about her BMI is shallow and pathetic. Get a fecking life!!!

 

You just be yourself darlin, get yourself out and mixing with as many people as possible. Why not try computer dating. When you meet someone and you feel the time is right to have sex you should be proud you are a virgin. Far better than being someone who sleeps around if you ask me!! and your partner will probably feel it is lovely you have saved yourself.

 

Take care and ignore that stupid pratt!!! He needs shooting!!!

 

Ahh...have you ever REALLY asked a man what he thought in that area? Where you would not jump down his throat if you did not like the answer? I doubt it.....

This is one of the very reasons I give up on men. Come on , is a woman all about grooming her and teasing her just so you can get the experience of touching her and getting her in the sack? Thats just sick. So your fantasies can come true?

 

I totally understand why a woman's weight can be a turn off for men. I get it. Ive been told a thousand times already, its a biological primal thing for a man to want a woman in a certain bmi index so he knows she is fit and healthy and capable of carrying a baby. Oh yeah, and sexually alluring

 

So how does America and countries like Australia even function when half the population is overweight? Does the human race die out, cause we dont fit the bill of what men want? Bah...Im tired of the superficialness of it all. Im giving men a big wide berth, lol. If they dont want me for me, and who I am, stuff them all.

[Vixentrox]

Firstly Jedah or whatever the hell your name is you are sick. Telling a woman things like this about her BMI is shallow and pathetic. Get a fecking life!!!

 

You just be yourself darlin, get yourself out and mixing with as many people as possible. Why not try computer dating. When you meet someone and you feel the time is right to have sex you should be proud you are a virgin. Far better than being someone who sleeps around if you ask me!! and your partner will probably feel it is lovely you have saved yourself.

 

Take care and ignore that stupid pratt!!! He needs shooting!!!

 

Ahh...have you ever REALLY asked a man what he thought in that area? Where you would not jump down his throat if you did not like the answer? I doubt it.....

This is one of the very reasons I give up on men. Come on , is a woman all about grooming her and teasing her just so you can get the experience of touching her and getting her in the sack? Thats just sick. So your fantasies can come true?

 

I totally understand why a woman's weight can be a turn off for men. I get it. Ive been told a thousand times already, its a biological primal thing for a man to want a woman in a certain bmi index so he knows she is fit and healthy and capable of carrying a baby. Oh yeah, and sexually alluring

 

So how does America and countries like Australia even function when half the population is overweight? Does the human race die out, cause we dont fit the bill of what men want? Bah...Im tired of the superficialness of it all. Im giving men a big wide berth, lol. If they dont want me for me, and who I am, stuff them all.

What society see as beautiful changes. I gave you examples of much art work from the Renaissance where the ideal was very curvy girls. Even in our life times the twiggy girls are now often see as unhealthy and unattractive by many compared to the 70s80s.

[Franko47]

I'm afraid I must counter some of the masculine commentary in this thread regarding the ladies. Trust me, I'm a lusty old bastard (I'm over thirty).

 

 

A lot of men like a voluptous woman, I know I do. Although I went with a petite Asian girl years ago, which was great, but I also have had a relationship with a "fat broad". Like, she wasn't obese or anything, it wasn't one of these ridiculous rhinos you sometimes see at Walmart, but somewhere in-between voluptous and "pleasingly plump". However, she was warm, sexy, and great fun to be with, and she ended up to be a bigger turn-on than some of these slender little missies who think they are so "hot" and lord-it-over all other women who might actually just have a little extra padding.

 

Our culture (especially in N.America) is obsessed with being thin and stuff; and this paranoid attitude towards our body is really out of hand.

 

There may be a lot of younger guys who have strict specs about female bodies, but the BBW comment wasn't necessary. Most of the so-called "overweight" chicks that I know have boyfriends and no problem finding one, actually. I've always been a little wary of the "model" chick with the hot body and features, it usually means "high maintenance" and a lot of other bullshit. Give me plain Jane anyday, whether a little overwieght or not. At least I'll be with someone not obsessed 24/7 with their "hotness".

 

Careful, guys. And for you ladies, you're all hot.

[ShallowByThyGame]

My uncle married a 300 pound woman. Granted he's heavy too, but hey, love is love. I know large girls that have such great personalities I forget their size if it's not in my immediate view.

 

When it comes to relationships, I can only offer one thing:

 

Go out and take risks. If you need to start with internet dating do so, but the more you interact with other humans the better at it you get. The only way to learn is to be vulnerable and awkward. If you really truly want to have a partner in that way, then you must be able to trust, and to be trusted. People are all over the place. Ask them what they are doing. Volunteer, join groups. Freethinker groups, musical groups, theater groups, whatever. Don't sit around at nighttime. You may feel pathetic walking into a bar and trying to talk to strangers, and it may not be the best place to meet your match, but it is better than sitting on your couch. If people know you are looking, they may try to help match you if they themselves are not interested or are taken. Stop making excuses and go interact with the teeming masses.

 

Most people are not too picky about their mates, so long as they are having a good time. If you can make them laugh you can win their heart.

 

 

Edit: ok, that not one thing, but it's all in one theme.

[Kathlene]

My uncle married a 300 pound woman. Granted he's heavy too, but hey, love is love. I know large girls that have such great personalities I forget their size if it's not in my immediate view.

 

When it comes to relationships, I can only offer one thing:

 

Go out and take risks. If you need to start with internet dating do so, but the more you interact with other humans the better at it you get. The only way to learn is to be vulnerable and awkward. If you really truly want to have a partner in that way, then you must be able to trust, and to be trusted. People are all over the place. Ask them what they are doing. Volunteer, join groups. Freethinker groups, musical groups, theater groups, whatever. Don't sit around at nighttime. You may feel pathetic walking into a bar and trying to talk to strangers, and it may not be the best place to meet your match, but it is better than sitting on your couch. If people know you are looking, they may try to help match you if they themselves are not interested or are taken. Stop making excuses and go interact with the teeming masses.

 

Most people are not too picky about their mates, so long as they are having a good time. If you can make them laugh you can win their heart.

 

 

Edit: ok, that not one thing, but it's all in one theme.

I did the internet dating thing and whatever. I quickly discovered this unwritten rule that men expected you to sleep with them after the 3rd date, lol. I got so badly chewed up by putting myself out there, Im too terrified now of ever doing it again. I dont want my body and heart ripped to small pieces while I am looking for the one for me. In all honesty though, I allowed that to happen. If I was a stronger person, I would of told half of them to jump ship pretty darn early, and not put up with their crap. Love is too hard. It can also be stupidly confused with lust, of which I am no fan of.

[ElrondHubbard]

The biggest mistake Women in their 20's make is overcomplicating the pickup game when in fact the "rules" if any, are very simple. One of my hobbies is observing people and ever since college I have spent years watching people get together in bars, dorms, everywhere. Almost anything a girl does outside of those 3 basics I mentioned is often superfluous.

No, Jedah. Women in their 20s (just like men in their 20s) make all sorts of different mistakes, some of them in relationships, some personal, some professional. A mistake that some women in their 20s make is acquiescing to a male-defined "pickup game" that objectifies and dehumanizes everyone involved. And, since you tout your observation (and not, say, your experience), I'd guess that your dating philosophy isn't working out so well. Not that you'd ever admit it, of course.

 

And in cases like what Sentinel has, where the problem is rooted in fear and anxiety, therapy may be the only real option

Again, no. It is totally normal to be anxious about sex and dating, especially given your position, Sentinel. If you think a therapist will help, great. But your situation certainly isn't professional-level dire.

 

Actually, that should work in your favor. The whole idea of a women your age still being inexperienced is old fashioned, and that might help with your charm if you go for old fashioned style dating arrangements.

Okay, PLEASE ignore this. Ugh. I could write a thesis on the sexism contained in those two sentences. Please don't let anyone fetishize your inexperience - finding your own inherent value is one of the greatest parts of leaving Christianity, it would be a shame to let some lame dude exploit something that, for you, is a difficult issue.

 

And let's get real for a second: "a women" honest and brave enough to not only leave the security blanket of religion, but to share her fears and seek advice from others, doesn't need any "help with" her "charm."

 

Sentinel, I once again find myself totally relating to you. Jedah aside, I think everyone so far has posted really good advice. I think sex - especially for people like us - is a really personal issue, so I don't want to tell you what to do. I can offer my own experience, though, and you can take from it whatever you find helpful.

 

When I left Christianity, I extracted myself from a world of sexual taboos and dove head-first into a world where it seemed like everyone was fucking everyone. I had a few one-night-stands over the course of about a year and a half. They were mildly satisfying on a superficial level, but more "worth it" in terms of establishing my sense-of-self as a sexual being, and liberating in the "God's not watching, I-do-what-I-want!" sort of way. In terms of actual relationships, it just takes time and experience to shift out of the christian mindset. I've learned something from every relationship, and found that variety really is the spice of life - I don't have to be able to imagine myself with someone forever to enjoy their company for now.

 

Ultimately, the best advice I can offer you is to be open to new experiences, but only do what feels comfortable. It might be a long time before you meet somebody who is really "it", but in the meantime you have a whole world of people to get to know. Mutual respect should be minimum criteria for anyone you become involved with, which means that you get to say "stop" whenever you want, no questions asked. It seems obvious, but knowing this has been comforting to me. I don't have to reveal my entire Christian past if I'm anxious about a BJ. You feel me?

[Non-Redneck]

I did the internet dating thing and whatever. I quickly discovered this unwritten rule that men expected you to sleep with them after the 3rd date, lol. I got so badly chewed up by putting myself out there, Im too terrified now of ever doing it again. I dont want my body and heart ripped to small pieces while I am looking for the one for me. In all honesty though, I allowed that to happen. If I was a stronger person, I would of told half of them to jump ship pretty darn early, and not put up with their crap. Love is too hard. It can also be stupidly confused with lust, of which I am no fan of.

 

If you're a Christian, then why are you not following the Bible and seeking out a mate in the Church? That seems like you're picking and choosing the parts of the Bible that suit you.

[Vomit Comet]

and then there are other men who say, "Pussy is pussy."

 

I tend to lean that way myself.

[stillalive]

I feel your pain. I had sex once when I was 18, then waited until I was married b/c I felt so bad about it. The church told me that sex would feel better if I waited until I was married and God would give me a wife who waited as well. Well, 8 years later I fell in love with a girl who was not a virgin, married her, and then became tormented by the thought that she had been with other men. I was set up for disappointment, and it completely spoiled my marriage which is now on the verge of divorce b/c my wife is sick of my atheism, and back and neck issues.

 

I suppose I will soon be in your situation, some what. If we do end up getting divorced, it will be very bizarre for me to sleep with someone who I'm not married to. I just hope I don't break down and cry in front of them when it happens.

[Ouroboros]

I totally understand why a woman's weight can be a turn off for men. I get it. Ive been told a thousand times already, its a biological primal thing for a man to want a woman in a certain bmi index so he knows she is fit and healthy and capable of carrying a baby. Oh yeah, and sexually alluring

I read once that the view of the "perfect" woman has changed the last hundred years. It was not the skinny ones who was most attractive in the past. It's a cultural programming (media and advertising) rather than genetic. Some might be genetic, but a lot is cultural. And what is programmed in our brains over the years, stick.

[Moxie]

It's a cultural programming (media and advertising) rather than genetic. Some might be genetic, but a lot is cultural. And what is programmed in our brains over the years, stick.

 

It shouldn't be too difficult to step out of cultural programming and expand upon one's individuality. I wish more people had the courage to do this.

[Jedah]

 

No, Jedah. Women in their 20s (just like men in their 20s) make all sorts of different mistakes, some of them in relationships, some personal, some professional. A mistake that some women in their 20s make is acquiescing to a male-defined "pickup game" that objectifies and dehumanizes everyone involved. And, since you tout your observation (and not, say, your experience), I'd guess that your dating philosophy isn't working out so well. Not that you'd ever admit it, of course.

 

I think you missed my post at #28 ( http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?/topic/36032-i-think-im-permanently-screwed-up/page__st__20__p__531669entry531669 )

 

I'm telling it like it is in the shallow pickup game of bars and such. Not how I personally go about it, and definitely not how I would like it to be. If I had my way, everything would be almost the opposite as how it is. Hell, if anything is proof against intelligent design it's that fact that we still have caveman instinct here in the 21'st century.

 

 

 

Please don't let anyone fetishize your inexperience

 

Why do you instantly assume that any man who does this can only be doing it from malignant intent?

[RankStranger]

[Erica]

Sentinel,

 

First of all, what Elrond Hubbard said, a thousand times over! And yeah, I would ignore Jedah completely. I don't think he realizes how harmful and thoughtless his 'instructions' are.

 

I was a virgin at 30, thanks to the religious baggage. It's a nasty dilemma to be in, and it's not made easier by the fact that sex and sexual politics can be messy and painful for *everyone*, Christian or not, male or female, experienced or not. My solution was to get 'it' over with, just so I could stop worrying about this big Thing hanging over my head. But wanting sex outside of a relationship doesn't mean wanting it with *anyone*, or wanting it to be completely meaningless. I spent a month or two testing the occasionally fraught waters, and ultimately I picked up on a guy in a nightclub who was just in town for the weekend. We stayed up all night talking in a pub, really good conversation, and when he said he wanted to come over, I was honest about the fact that I hadn't had sex before (I despise the word 'virgin' and all its connotations). He was understanding and patient, and the next day, he was gone. It was perfect. We're still friends on Facebook, although he's dating someone else now and I'm getting married in a month. Incidentally, my soon-to-be-husband and I started out as fuck buddies.

 

This is just my experience, obviously, and your mileage is sure to vary. But here are some things I wish someone had told me sooner:

 

1. 'Virginity' is a meaningless concept. In what other situation is it considered a 'loss' to do something for the first time?

2. Sex is a much bigger deal when you've never had it. It takes maybe two or three times (YMMV) for it to no longer be a big deal (although still very, very fun, and when you're in a relationship, a nice way to express affection).

3. Masturbate. Lots. Guys figure this out very early on, but I think it's less straightforward for us. But you'll be much more confident in an unfamiliar sexual situation if you know your own body and what works for it. Plus, fun!

4. You can call it off at any time. You are allowed to lie in bed naked with a man and then change your mind. You are allowed to let him buy you a drink and take you home, and then change your mind. You are allowed to start having sex, and then change your mind. Period.

5. For my money, trust is more important than affection or a relationship when it comes to the first time or two. Experience is about more than just the physical mechanics of sex; it's also about learning to read signals and learning what people expect. It's also about being smart about preparation and limitations. It is sure to take a bit of experimentation. This is all exciting, but it can also be dangerous. See point 4.

 

Okay, one final suggestion, and then I'm done (I promise)! And this is JUST a suggestion, and may not even be possible for you: get out of the country. Just for a bit, for a week or a month or a summer. Backpack through Europe. The sense of freedom and personal confidence that will give you can come in very, very handy. ;-)

[Phanta]

 

*chuckle*

[Moxie]

As for me, I realise I need to be true to myself. The societal pressure to be coupled just for the sake of it was heavy.

It isn't christian baggage so much for me as it is finding that I like the freedom I have now. Sure, someone will say "But you can share that freedom with someone."

I look forward to the day when society sees there is a third option.

 

*sigh*

 

I guess everyone overlooked this post.

 

Erica, I do not want to have sex. Even after I left christianity, I still had no interest. Society still thinks you HAVE to have sex at some point in your life. There are a zillion ways to live life! I'm also facing pressure to see nonsexuality as a bad thing. For me, it's more about being true to myself, as I said above. If I look for a sexual experience, it will only be because that's what I'm "supposed" to do. If I follow the christian pattern of getting married and having kids (not that christians do this anymore), it will only be because that's what I'm expected to do. Either way, I'm not being true to myself.

 

And I AM confident! I have been out of the country. Why so many assumptions? Geez. For some reason, people automatically assume that asexual people are not confident and have little to no experience whatsoever. But sex isn't the be-all and end-all of life anymore.

 

When I started this thread, I thought I was permanently screwed up because that's the implicit message I've been given by society. But upon further inner searching, I realise that I've always been comfortable with myself. But I have moments when I feel "broken" because of what society says about not having sex.

 

What I'm saying is, being true to oneself, whether that means being sexual or asexual, is key.

[Erica]

Sentinel,

 

I am very sorry, I did misunderstand what you were saying. I was going more off your original post, which I took to mean that you were upset about your religious upbringing giving you a negative view of sex. But it sounds like you've found your own answers despite all of our misguided 'advice' here!

[Ramen666]

UPDATE: I can confirm one thing about anything said to me in this thread, being serious is a real mutherfucker. No I didn't fail, I wouldn't be posting if I did, well probably I would. No I also didn't get the girl "yet" but I found out the key to confidence. I was able to do this all by being myself and hit off with that same chick I said I liked in the beginning of this thread (ironically she is in my class again).

 

I also hit it off with this other chick real well (huh? how did this happen), and this quarter everyone is like in a good mood to see me. The fuck? It was like all of sudden the sun is shining and good things I think are going to happen.

 

Next step, continue this. This is good stuff, happiness I have not felt in a long time.

[ebonileigh]

Hi Sentinel,

 

I am a 60yr old woman, ex-christian, an atheist and freethinker. Have been for 10 years now.

 

I would not be fretting about it if I were you.

I met my husband to be at the age of 17, we had 'pre-marital sex' for 3 years, got married. Over my lifetime I've had premarital sex, marital sex, extramarital sex, since my divorce I've had lots of one night stands, casual sex, short term and long term relationships (with and without sex).

Please bear in mind as you look at that list that I am 60 years of age.

I love sex and intimacy, and I love a close and bonding relationship.

However, none of it is worth it if you are with the wrong man or the wrong woman. One night stands and casual sex most definitely have their place in my opinion, absolutely. Friends are very important in this life, acquiring and building friendships is the most important thing, other than the friendship and relationship one has with oneself. In the process of building those friendships, if intimacy occurs, all well and good, whether it be with a male or a female, you may not even be sure as yet of your sexual orientation, that's just a thought.

If not, the friendship is more important.

Understanding evolution by natural selection, and by sexual selection, can also help to enlighten you about our species, and what drives us. Education in my opinion is vital to all and will help to not only enlighten, but liberate and free the human animal from all those things that beset us.

 

Don't fret Sentinel, concentrate on friendships with both of the sexes.

[ebonileigh]

As for me, I realise I need to be true to myself. The societal pressure to be coupled just for the sake of it was heavy.

It isn't christian baggage so much for me as it is finding that I like the freedom I have now. Sure, someone will say "But you can share that freedom with someone."

I look forward to the day when society sees there is a third option.

 

*sigh*

 

I guess everyone overlooked this post.

 

Erica, I do not want to have sex. Even after I left christianity, I still had no interest. Society still thinks you HAVE to have sex at some point in your life. There are a zillion ways to live life! I'm also facing pressure to see nonsexuality as a bad thing. For me, it's more about being true to myself, as I said above. If I look for a sexual experience, it will only be because that's what I'm "supposed" to do. If I follow the christian pattern of getting married and having kids (not that christians do this anymore), it will only be because that's what I'm expected to do. Either way, I'm not being true to myself.

 

And I AM confident! I have been out of the country. Why so many assumptions? Geez. For some reason, people automatically assume that asexual people are not confident and have little to no experience whatsoever. But sex isn't the be-all and end-all of life anymore.

 

When I started this thread, I thought I was permanently screwed up because that's the implicit message I've been given by society. But upon further inner searching, I realise that I've always been comfortable with myself. But I have moments when I feel "broken" because of what society says about not having sex.

 

What I'm saying is, being true to oneself, whether that means being sexual or asexual, is key.

Hi Sentinel, I just put up a post in response to your very first one. So in response to this particular one, yes, the third option is one that is becoming more and more a choice for a lot of people, i.e to be sexually inactive and/or not have a spouse or partner at all. I don't think all humans have to have partners and be sexually active, one has to remember why it is that we have sex, the reason for sex is procreation. Evolution by natural and sexual selection is how we came to be, and it is what drives the continuation of the species. Not all are sexually active.

Society will have to come to accept it one day, just as it has to accept homosexuals, lesbians, bisexuals, transexuals, atheists, humanists, freethinkers etc etc etc.

Acceptance of oneself is the first thing to do, and don't let others judge or pressure you.

[Vigile]

Jedah mentioned most men dont believe in BBW - just curious but what does BBW stand for?

 

 

It is short for "Big but beautiful". It is a copout way of saying fat and dumpy.

 

You'll never be a diplomat my man.

[Vigile]

I have heard some men say they like the "chunky butt," and then there are other men who say, "Pussy is pussy."

 

I always hated the guys who said that when I was growing up. Maybe it was my xian upbringing that infused in me that sex was sacred but when I heard it the context was that they didn't want a relationship, just a piece of ass. I don't have a problem with that today if both consent to the same idea but it still comes across to me as crude and low class.

[The-Captain]

I always hated the guys who said that when I was growing up. Maybe it was my xian upbringing that infused in me that sex was sacred but when I heard it the context was that they didn't want a relationship, just a piece of ass. I don't have a problem with that today if both consent to the same idea but it still comes across to me as crude and low class.

 

Never liked it either. And there may be nothing sacred about sex (in the traditional sense) but that doesn't mean that there isn't a lot more going on than bumping uglies.