Did You Find God Again?

[Riz]

I wasn't sure whether to put this in Ex-Christian Life or in this area. I chose this area because it has to deal with God more specifically...

 

Did anyone else leave Christianity and find themselves just confused by the question "Is there even a God?" -- you know Christianity was bad for you but, at the same time, you aren't ready to throw in the towel on Divinity all together... or Did anyone leave Christianity and honestly have no clue what they really believed?

 

That's where I am right now. I'm just wondering if anyone else has been there, and how they began to resolve and answer this question for themselves without falling into yet another religion trap... because sure, Christianity was awful, but any religion right now is unappealing to me.

 

Now I'm here asking myself the tough questions "What do I really believe?" without the influence of any religion at all, and it's almost daunting, and confusing.

 

I feel lost in a lot of ways. I spent so long in a religion without ever asking myself what I believed. How sad is that...

 

Can anyone relate?

[par4dcourse]

Questions about religion tend to start out slow and build exponentially. Many of us, myself included, looked at many beliefs after xianity. I settled on "none of the above" but we have Deists and Polytheists and Pagans, etc. among the ranks.

 

Freethinking is just that. Examine, explore, experiment, and enjoy your freedom.

[florduh]

No gods, and I really looked hard.

[PandaPirate]

No gods, and I really looked hard.

Obviously you've never seen me.

[Shyone]

I have certainly seen a number of people follow the same path you are on.

 

My own path was different. I was only annoyed by Christianity, not suffering, so I stuck with it despite curiosity and problems with some doctrines that I thought were inconsistent with my experience.

 

Little by little, I learned, thought, and found things that were more consistent with no god, or at least that god had no practical effect on. I kept looking though and my looking showed me new things that ultimately led me to reject Christianity and wonder if there was a god.

 

For me, the question was answered by reading the bible very carefully, and then reading comparative ancient literature and history from at or before hebrew history.

 

It was like this: Let's say that humans were just living and working. Then the One and Only God of the Universe comes and says, "Abraham, listen up." And later, he says, "Moses, listen up." And then we get religion, laws, prayers, miracles, etc.

 

But that's not what happened. There were gods everywhere. The Egyptians, sumerians, Hittites, Greeks, Hindus and every make and model of human in every "corner" of the world all had gods. Even the Aztecs, Mayans before them, and Olmecs before them - who had never been exposed to the ancient god cultures of the Old World.

 

How could man have been "making up" these gods for so many millenia, and coincidentally along comes a "real one"? The ONLY real one?

 

Somethin' fishy there, and after a little more looking, all gods were on a level playing field- and all imaginary.

 

That's when I finally left religion.

 

So I did it backwards from you. I didn't run away from religions, people, abuse or anything like that. I found out there was no god, and then I would be a hypocrite if I stayed in religion.

[Overcame Faith]

Hi, Riz:

 

Here's how it went for me. I came to the conclusion that Christianity was a false religion. That meant that I eliminated the entire New Testament as having any authority whatsoever. That left me with only the Old Testament. For a while I considered converting to Judaism since at that point, I had not eliminated the Old Testament as authoritative. Then I started closely studying the Old Testament and came to the conclusion that the god described therein did not exist. That eliminated the entire Bible as authoritative. By this point, I had eliminated both Christianity and Judaism as being true religions. Since I had already eliminated two of the three Abrahamic religions, I was certain that the third one, Islam, was as untrue as both Christianity and Judaism. That eliminated the big three relgions. Having eliminated the big three, I realized that it was undoubtedly true that no religion was true so that eliminated all relgions from my consideration. That left me with the question of whether any god or gods existed. The closest I could come to any sort of belief in any type of deity was the deist concept of a god who got things started but otherwise did not take an active role once he/she/it got things started. But there was no real evidence for such a god. I finally came to the conclusion that the burden of proof was neither on me to prove nor disprove the existence of a god or gods. Rather, if it was somehow important for me to believe that there was a god or gods, then the burden of proof was on that god or those gods to prove his/her/their existence to me. No god has yet met their burden of proof.

 

My conclusion is that I adhere to no religion, am certain that neither the god of the Bible nor the god of the quaran exists (nor the god of any other religions) and will be receptive to any god's or gods' efforts to meet his/her/their their burden to prove to me that he/she/they exist. Since no god/gods have yet to meet their burden, if he/she/they do exist they must not care whether I believe they exist or not. If he/she/they don't care if I believe in his/her/their existence, then there is no reason for me to care either.

 

Edited to add: Don't be fooled by the brevity of this description of the process I went through. It took a lot of time and effort on my part to finally get to where I am. In addition, and perhaps most importantly, it was undescribably difficult on a personal level to. The anguish was harsh and I shed many, many tears.

[Ouroboros]

There's only one God: Reality, and I try to be its prophet.

 

[Galien]

Hmm Riz, its kind of personal, I guess it depends why one is a xian in the first place.

 

I became a xian when I was nine, I was in a children’s home because our violent father had abandoned our family. The minister who took me to church and introduced me to god then sexually assaulted me for the next 3 months. I had learned early that men were selfish and unreliable. In Jesus I found a gentle, kind, unselfish man who could see past the end of his own nose. I felt personally responsible for his death and set out on a mission to repay him.

 

As my little personality developed I modelled myself on Jesus as I saw him through a child’s eyes. I learned to treat everyone as my equal, never lie, always be kind, forgiving, forbearing. Never put my ego first. Always put others before myself, no matter how hard. Always be a part of the light and run from the darkness. That wasn’t hard for me, I was a gifted child in an abusive ghetto home, sensitive and traumatised and I latched on to the only structure I could find, and the only thing that made sense. I always believed if I loved hard enough and tried hard enough that anything was possible.

 

But real life doesn’t work that way, and in the end I couldn’t understand why the xians didn’t see life the way I did, why they were mostly the opposite of all the things I thought Jesus was. I found them the most judgemental and hateful people at times, busy wallowing in their supposed moral superiority and hating everyone that was different. After 36 years of fighting what I finally realised was human nature, I gave up.

 

There may be a god there who simply doesn’t care about my lifelong depression, because he never bothered healing me from it. If he is there he could do with being just a bit more hands on.

 

On the other hand I may have spent my whole life praying to the air and modelling myself on a phantom. Either way, I am happy with who I am, doesn’t matter any more how I got this way. I am tired of years of my life being eaten up by something I cannot prove one way or the other. What I do know is that five years out of church, I have never felt so at peace and lacking in anxiety and depression in my whole life.

[Riz]

You hit a nail on the head there Evil, for me anyway.. I have a severe anxiety disorder and if there is a God, that God has certainly been no help to me other than perhaps a random security blanket over the years to deal with the anxiety, assuming something had a bigger plan for me.

 

I never bought the "your struggles make you stronger, God leaves you like this to make you stronger" bit. To me, if there was a God who was "testing" me or "strengthening" me with my disorders, I wouldn't wanna worship that God anyway ... seems to me that's more malevolent than benevolent.

 

That being said.. I think I still believe in God. Just not a personal God... I do believe there is more to this world than science can explain, but I do not believe in a personal creator-deity-man/woman living up in the Sky. I do not believe in a personal God that intervenes...

 

Perhaps instead what I feel drawn toward is simply more or less "Divinity" in general, something that binds us all together on another level...

 

Whatever it is, I hate that I feel like I don't belong anywhere now. I'm not a Christian, but people automatically assume I must be an Atheist if I've left Christianity.

 

Fact is, I don't think that I am.

 

But I'll admit that right now, I'm just not sure...

[Riz]

On another note, believing that there is nothing more to this world than what meets the eye and that I will do nothing more than rot in the ground after I die...

 

That is probably the one thing I fear the most in this world.

 

It certainly does nothing for my anxiety or my depression.. as much as I loathe Christianity, some days I fear it may have been the one string keeping me sane enough to keep on living, even if it was all a lie.

 

That scares me....

[Shyone]

On another note, believing that there is nothing more to this world than what meets the eye and that I will do nothing more than rot in the ground after I die...

 

That is probably the one thing I fear the most in this world.

 

It certainly does nothing for my anxiety or my depression.. as much as I loathe Christianity, some days I fear it may have been the one string keeping me sane enough to keep on living, even if it was all a lie.

 

That scares me....

It's a disappointment for sure if you've ever believed that life would never end, but then there's reality...

 

Life is the same for fish, dogs and humans. When the blood stops cirulating, and the brain cells die, thoughts, memories and desires all vanish. We are gamed to not want that. It's why we don't want to die NOW. Unfortunately, it seems that nature is desiged to allow reproduction, raising children, and then a period when life is meant for nothing but enjoyment and the search for wisdom. Then we die.

 

I will say this on the "positive side." Your lack of existence before you were born didn't bother you one bit, and the same can be said for the dead. Their struggles are over, and they are indeed at rest.

 

The little fireflies that flit around the bushes are pretty to look at, but no firefly is flitting in another spiritual world. It's just nature.

[Riz]

 

I will say this on the "positive side." Your lack of existence before you were born didn't bother you one bit, and the same can be said for the dead.

 

Did I say it didn't? You put words in my mouth without asking me the question. The answer is if there was nothing before my life, that does also bother me. I never thought to mention it.

 

Besides... as has been mentioned in other areas of the forum: ex-Christian doesn't mean Atheist.

 

I think that's just not necessarily the path for me (Atheism)... and that's fine too

 

But you never know.

 

It's all just a journey.

[Riz]

Thanks everyone for the replies

[Vixentrox]

On another note, believing that there is nothing more to this world than what meets the eye and that I will do nothing more than rot in the ground after I die...

 

That is probably the one thing I fear the most in this world.

 

It certainly does nothing for my anxiety or my depression.. as much as I loathe Christianity, some days I fear it may have been the one string keeping me sane enough to keep on living, even if it was all a lie.

 

That scares me....

Do you bemoan the time before your birth? It's not different when you are dead. Make the most of this life. Make THIS life count.

[Snowflake]

 

Did anyone else leave Christianity and find themselves just confused by the question "Is there even a God?" -- you know Christianity was bad for you but, at the same time, you aren't ready to throw in the towel on Divinity all together... or Did anyone leave Christianity and honestly have no clue what they really believed?

 

 

I can relate to this. In the years since I've deconverted, I've explored different beliefs; different aspects of paganism and buddhism mainly, then settling on atheism for years.

 

I find myself questioning again if I truly believe that there are no gods. So I definitely can relate. I know that the christian god doesn't exist! I'm not alarmed by the questioning, though. I think it's just peeling back another layer of discovering what it is that I do believe.

 

I battle major depression that has been treatment resistant. This has sucked, to be blunt. Some days are better than others, but it's always there. I can relate to having the disorders, too.

[Guest Valk0010]

I have been operating under the concept if there is no evidence to speak off at least be logical.

 

If god is a logical concept for you, go for it.

[StevoMuso]

For me it was the other way around. I first realized that God doesn't (couldn't) exist - then investigated Christianity in more detail to figure out how it could have deluded so many for so long. The moment of my de-conversion happened when a friend said to me, "Have you ever considered the possibility that God simply does not exist?" Taking that mental step was the trigger that set me free - in that instant all my questions were answered.

 

My view is that if you're smart enough to figure out that Christianity is a load of lies, then you are also smart enough to figure out that there cannot possibly be an invisible Being floating around the universe. We have had that little "God-exists" paradigm in the back of our minds since shortly after birth and it's a difficult one to identify, let alone remove. If that mind-set remains then atheism may not be an option for you, but then again it may just be a matter of time.

[Franko47]

 

 

Now I'm here asking myself the tough questions "What do I really believe?" without the influence of any religion at all, and it's almost daunting, and confusing.

 

I feel lost in a lot of ways. I spent so long in a religion without ever asking myself what I believed. How sad is that...

 

 

 

 

One of the interesting things I've noticed is this tendency for humans to want a belief in God that is "comprehensive" and "tangible". That is, they want the "god belief" to explain their purpose in life, or the meaning of their existence, and so on, as if this somehow will provide a sense of self-identity and value. Or something like that.

 

I sometimes think about my former goldfish. (I no longer keep an aquarium) In their little world, they were concerned with looking for food and swimming around. They perhaps could sense my shadow when I approached, for they would come to the surface and I would scatter the fish food and they would engage in a connection with their god- that being me.

 

There is really no way they could ever understand what I was, it is beyond their mental capacity, of course. If they could think, for sake of argument, they might postulate all sorts of theories about me, and what was outside of their tank. They might decide what appeases me and what offends me. They might sense that their behavior was important to being fed and kept alive and comfortable. But in the end, none of this speculation would help them, except for giving them a sense of meaning to it all. For they would eventually die, and with that my concern for them would be ended. If they thought there was an afterlife, they were mistaken. But that won't matter, because they are not aware of anything after death. Perhaps they engaged in "Pascal's Wager" too, and had some kind of ritual and shrine in the fish tank which they thought would enable their continued existence into an afterlife. But alas, none of that could come to pass, because I am not capable of resurrecting them, and even if I could, I really don't see the point.

 

Imagine a god that would do all the things that religion claims, yet never once communicate with you, show himself, give you a complete series of miracles and rewards in return for faithfulness, or manifest himself in any ways that could not be called ambiguous. It is because of this very nature of a mysterious god that I am convinced does not exist; and even if such a god does, it has no interest in us humans, because we are nothing more than clever monkey creatures born out of the slop from which all other organic life forms are made. We are like the gold fish to a god that creates galaxies for breakfast, knows all things, and totally controls the universe and reality. Such a being could not even relate to such a primitive creature as ourselves; just like me and the gold fish. The whole premise is ridiculous, and the proof is in the pudding.

 

But feel free to "imagine" all the things that you feel that you need in order to give yourself purpose and value. "Imagine" what a convenient god would be like, and what it would "feel like" if it had a personal interest in you. If we were not so stubborn, and passionate about our existence, and didn't mind the mere sixty or seventy years that (potentially) a human has, then we would not really worry so much about these questions.

 

Make every day count. Make happiness and good moments the meaning of your life. Enjoy being the person you want to be; and be glad that you were lucky to experience existence, if only for a brief season, but a powerful existence compared to most other creatures that crawl upon the earth.

 

On the other hand, maybe God really likes goldfish. Or monkey brained humans. Maybe god's not as advanced as we think, or maybe he has a fetish about us humanoids. Perhaps he likes having pets, and maybe there is a plan for us.

 

Whatever the case, I doubt that it falls along the lines of human created mumbo-jumbo religions, or follows the narrative of our myth-making ancestors, all of whom lived in a world of magical processes and superstitions.

 

However, I sometimes do miss my goldfish.

[Sazzy]

I wasn't sure whether to put this in Ex-Christian Life or in this area. I chose this area because it has to deal with God more specifically...

 

Did anyone else leave Christianity and find themselves just confused by the question "Is there even a God?" -- you know Christianity was bad for you but, at the same time, you aren't ready to throw in the towel on Divinity all together... or Did anyone leave Christianity and honestly have no clue what they really believed?

 

That's where I am right now. I'm just wondering if anyone else has been there, and how they began to resolve and answer this question for themselves without falling into yet another religion trap... because sure, Christianity was awful, but any religion right now is unappealing to me.

 

Now I'm here asking myself the tough questions "What do I really believe?" without the influence of any religion at all, and it's almost daunting, and confusing.

 

I feel lost in a lot of ways. I spent so long in a religion without ever asking myself what I believed. How sad is that...

 

Can anyone relate?

 

Hi Riz

 

I can relate, because I'm pretty much where you are. I will NEVER associate myself with religion again, but that doesn't mean I've totally forgone the idea of there being something else out there. The universe is extremely complex, it's so complex that we can only barely scratch the surface in trying to scientifically explain it, and it's seemingly endless. WHAT is it and where did it come from? That question will probably mess with my head for the rest of my natural life, and is also one of the things that stop me from being completely atheist, along with the belief of the 'supernatural' (dont laugh ). There are just so many things out there that cannot be adequately explained.

 

The good news is you are no longer chained by religion. You are free to think, feel, believe whatever you want or whatever you feel in your heart is right. If you believe in life after death, so what? A part of me hopes there is some sort of after-life--not Christian Heaven where apparently you spend all your time worshipping God and happily watching your 'unsaved' family roasting in hell--but rather a place where I can spend forever with my husband and daughter. Can't think of anything more awesome, really! I might be deluding myself, but at least it's pleasant and not heart-wrenching like it would've been when I was still a Christian.

 

Sorry if I'm not making much sense lol. It made sense to me when I first started typing, but I get a bit random sometimes.

[Shyone]

If you believe in life after death, so what? A part of me hopes there is some sort of after-life--not Christian Heaven where apparently you spend all your time worshipping God and happily watching your 'unsaved' family roasting in hell--but rather a place where I can spend forever with my husband and daughter. Can't think of anything more awesome, really!

Hell is where you spend eternity with your spouse, but you've been divorced.

 

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Sazzy]

If you believe in life after death, so what? A part of me hopes there is some sort of after-life--not Christian Heaven where apparently you spend all your time worshipping God and happily watching your 'unsaved' family roasting in hell--but rather a place where I can spend forever with my husband and daughter. Can't think of anything more awesome, really!

Hell is where you spend eternity with your spouse, but you've been divorced.

 

Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

LOL Considering I have an ex-husband, I can certainly agree! We've been divorced for 6 years and I still wail and gnash my teeth when we converse from time to time (we're trying out that 'let's still be friends' crap at the moment).

[Tabula Rasa]

I wasn't sure whether to put this in Ex-Christian Life or in this area. I chose this area because it has to deal with God more specifically...

 

Did anyone else leave Christianity and find themselves just confused by the question "Is there even a God?" -- you know Christianity was bad for you but, at the same time, you aren't ready to throw in the towel on Divinity all together... or Did anyone leave Christianity and honestly have no clue what they really believed?

 

That's where I am right now. I'm just wondering if anyone else has been there, and how they began to resolve and answer this question for themselves without falling into yet another religion trap... because sure, Christianity was awful, but any religion right now is unappealing to me.

 

Now I'm here asking myself the tough questions "What do I really believe?" without the influence of any religion at all, and it's almost daunting, and confusing.

 

I feel lost in a lot of ways. I spent so long in a religion without ever asking myself what I believed. How sad is that...

 

Can anyone relate?

 

Riz, welcome to the board, and I can definitely relate.

 

What caused me to deconvert is the idea of hell aka eternal damnation. I couldn't believe anymore, that an all powerful god would condemn good people to eternal torment, just because they didn't dot their I's and cross their T's by getting "Saved".(And of course, for some of us, the idea of "are you sure you're saved?" was mental torment.)

 

For a little while, I thought that maybe the god of the bible Yawheh was ok, but then from reading about the atrocities he commits in the Old Testament, I totally threw out the whole thing, Father , Son, Holy Ghost.

 

I think there's some sort of Divine Force, but it's not Bible god.

 

A site you might want to check out, if you want to read up on different belief systems, is The Internet Sacred Text Archive www.sacred-texts.com.It has over 1'400 books on religion, mythology, folklore , and free thought.

 

Good luck in your search.

Tabula

[Ancey]

With a bit of shyness, I could be called a Pantheist.

 

I have spent months researching all sorts of things, and I've even become quite interested in Astronomy and Biology, but in all of my findings, I have not found any sign of a personal God.

 

So, I'm an atheist to the personal God. I don't dare say I think I know everything, so if there was a creator, I can't say. I think it's fair to say he is not a prayer-answering deity who interjects in our lives in any way or wants/needs our worship and fear, he may simply have been the big bang or the dense point from which we burst from. In which case, if we know it, it really isn't what is usually considered to be God.

 

My only deity is a reverence for what is. I find it sad when Theists say we are leading a sad life- I don't feel sad. Every piece of us was once 'star dust', everything became everything from a point of infinitesimal density and energy and violence, and from the fray, against so many odds, we showed up. Why can't the awe of the universe and how amazingly unlikely yet likely we are to be alive be enough?

 

I almost feel spiritual in amazement from how large and beautiful and infinite everything is, and how humble I feel to be a part of it.

 

And it has absolutely nothing to do with a sky-daddy.

[ElrondHubbard]

I think Joseph Campbell put my idea of "god" best when he said "God is a metaphor for that which transcends all levels of intellectual thought. It's as simple as that."

 

I left Christianity when I realized that I valued Truth (with a capital T) more than religion. When I opened my faith to the same scrutiny I applied to other aspects of my life, it didn't hold up. If anything is my "god", it is the pursuit of the most True, fundamental experience of reality I can have during my tenure as a human being. In that sense, I didn't leave religion because it had too much "god" in it - I left because it didn't have enough. I might not believe in a literal deity anymore, but by opening myself to awe at the world around me, and allowing myself to take inspiration wherever I find it, I have a much richer "relationship" with "god" now than I ever had as a Christian.

 

 

My only deity is a reverence for what is. I find it sad when Theists say we are leading a sad life- I don't feel sad. Every piece of us was once 'star dust', everything became everything from a point of infinitesimal density and energy and violence, and from the fray, against so many odds, we showed up. Why can't the awe of the universe and how amazingly unlikely yet likely we are to be alive be enough?

 

I almost feel spiritual in amazement from how large and beautiful and infinite everything is, and how humble I feel to be a part of it.

 

Yeah. Exactly.

[lunaticheathen]

Riz, I've been where you are, at least how you described it. Right after leaving christianity as so much harmful junk, I had no idea what to believe or think about this huge, amazing universe. And we certainly do have a wealth of opinions and logical thoughts about it.

My own journey, so far, in a nutshell, after christianity - what?, Baha'i, kinda Buddhist, Stregheria, Celtic Witch, whatever eclectic Pagan type person, and what I am now, something like... Animistic Hellenist Vodou Thelemic Witch. Have I confused you yet?

I guess all I can do from here, is echo what's been said - just keep an open mind, look at everything that comes your way/interests you, and stay with what resonates. My spiritual gumbo is just one story. See where yours takes you.