Guest questioner4 Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 Here are two article concerning the most recent "See you at the Pole Day" http://www.edmondsun.com/articles/2005/09/22/front/front.txt ---quote from article--------- Nearly 150 students gathered early in the morning at the Edmond North High School yard where they prayed for their school, for their community, for President Bush and for the victims of Hurricane Katrina. They also prayed for non-Christian students in their school and wrote their names down on paper. In a solemn, symbolic offering, they nailed the pieces of paper to a wooden cross, set up beside the flag pole. ------------ Here is an article commenting on the practice of nailing the names of the non-Christian students to a cross. http://www.cushingdaily.com/cnhi/cushingda...eyword=topstory What do you think of the appropriateness of nailing students names to a cross ? (I'm not asking about the legality, it's probobly all legal) I am curious as to how they determined which students were Christian and which were not ? Were names of JW's, Mormons, nailed to that cross. Did they actually have first hand knowledge of said students affiliations, or were they just assuming that the student in question was a non-Christian because they didn't participate in "See you at the Pole "? Do you think it is appropriate to use a students name in such a manner ? Is it appropriate to announce publicly someone else's religious affilitaion or lack thereof ? (or to announce your assumptions about their religious affiliation) This is one thing that has always concerned me about religious clubs, and activities in public schools. That they are used as ways to "out" students IRT to their religion. These types of activities make it easier to target people of the "wrong" religion. I am not sure if these students REALLY AND TRULY thought that by nailing these students names to a cross, that somehow that student would be converted, (almost sounds like voo-doo), or if this was their sly little way of publicly denouncing non-Christian students, and masking it with a pious veneer. Even if their intentions were good, I don't think this was appropriate in a public school atmosphere, and could lead to harassement of the "nailed" kids. Since it is a before school event, and is protected by the first amendment, don't think there is much that can be done about it. But I still say it's inappropriate. If you think this type of activity is okay, would you feel the same way if YOUR name was publicly nailed to a symbol a religion or policital idea different than yours ? I think this is similar to the Mormon practice of posthumously baptising Jewish people. Legally nothing can be done to stop it. But I do find it rather rude, to bring someone into your religious rituals, even if only symbollically, without their consent, or knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 What do you think of the appropriateness of nailing students names to a cross ?(I'm not asking about the legality, it's probobly all legal) I think it's incredibly bigoted and saying, in effect, that they wish those students would die and burn in hell forever. But then, that's what most Christians think of non-Christians, and they wonder why we consider them to be incredibly prejudiced. Also if this was in the U.S., expect a lawsuit by the students' parents and the ACLU. If you think this type of activity is okay, would you feel the same way if YOUR name was publicly nailed to a symbol a religion or policital idea different than yours ? As I said before, I think it's incredibly hateful and intolerant, similar to burning crosses in people's yards. It sends a similar message of hate. I can't believe that a public school in the U.S. would allow such a thing. Again, I'd expect at least one lawsuit to come out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 I think it's incredibly bigoted and saying, in effect, that they wish those students would die and burn in hell forever. But then, that's what most Christians think of non-Christians, and they wonder why we consider them to be incredibly prejudiced. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I didn't take it this way. I figured they were posting their unsaved friends there, and giving em to Jesus. (praying for em to get saved) Either way, it's bullshit. I'm sure there will be a lawsuit, and I'll bet the Christian American Center for Law and Justice will be there defending em and making sure this gets maximum exposure. Wonder if the same rights would be extended to kids poking pins in voodoo dolls of the christian kids? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 Heck, the Cross is just a big phallus symbol, borrowed from the midsummer festivities (in old pagan ritual, the midsummer pole looks like a cross, but have two rings hanging on the "arms" of the cross! see included picture.), so what does it really mean to erect it and post names on it? Giving them to the god of sex? It's funny though, that using the cross that way, I would consider blasphemous. Or take it this way, if they put it on fire, and put white robes and and white hats covering their faces... there you go... KKK is in town! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizard Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 I didn't take it this way. I figured they were posting their unsaved friends there, and giving em to Jesus. (praying for em to get saved) Either way, it's bullshit. I'm sure there will be a lawsuit, and I'll bet the Christian American Center for Law and Justice will be there defending em and making sure this gets maximum exposure. Wonder if the same rights would be extended to kids poking pins in voodoo dolls of the christian kids? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That's how I took it too. But you know..it would piss me off if they did that to my child. Hell..it would piss me off if they did that to me. poking pins in voodoo dolls? How about equal time for the Wiccans? Perhaps casting a few "goddess spells" or something at the pole on Halloween? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 Do you think it is appropriate to use a students name in such a manner ?Is it appropriate to announce publicly someone else's religious affilitaion or lack thereof ? (or to announce your assumptions about their religious affiliation) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> )))) ((())) ((())) (((( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totallyatpeace Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 )))) ((())) ((())) (((( <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I agree, Amanda. They stepped Waaayyy over the line. A line that shouldn't even be there. I have seen that done when they nailed their own "sins" to the cross...... but to nail someone's name...............wow. See you at the pole itself, is not a bad thing. At our school, on that one day a year they stand around the flag pole and sing songs and pray. It's not *in your face* or anything like that. But maybe my school is unique........we also have a gay/straight alliance club and it has about the same turn out as See you at the pole. However, the gay/straight alliance meets every week. Ro-Bear? Would your school be able to have a gay/straight club? (Just comparing Tennessee to Oregon.) The G/S Club is looking for a staff member to oversee it. Hhhhmmmm Oh, boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valgeir Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 My school just did something similar to that, but I don't think they did as much stuff. I don't know, I just walked past it right into the school in the morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HadouKen24 Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 I know I'd be offended if my name ended up on something like that. There's really only one way to interpret such an act. It's basically a list of "People We Don't Like As They Are Now." It demeans the ability of the ones on the list to choose wisely in the eyes of the group. To say the least, it's a breach of courtesy. On another note, I find it incredibly amusing that Christians get all uptight about the evils of witchcraft and paganism, and then go do something like this. I really can't see any reason to distinguish this from a pagan spell. I mean, prayer combined with a symbolic act of binding symbols standing for people, to a symbol standing for their group, in an attempt to get more members? Doesn't sound ethical, actually, if you believe such things work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Gods Fail Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 Matthew 6:5 - And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. Sounds like it was more for show than anything. And I agree, it's offensive to either assume certain people aren't xtians (maybe they just don't make big public displays oh their faith), or assume they want anything to do with that particular religion. Kinda reminds me of the Mormons 'converting' deceased people (for whatever reasons they had for doing that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 I mean, prayer combined with a symbolic act of binding symbols standing for people, to a symbol standing for their group, in an attempt to get more members? IIRC from all the Pagan books I had read, that would be an example of a binding spell, or at least, a manipulative one, and therefore not ethical. So much for "unconditional love." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 It also resembles the Israelites when they prayed to the copper snake on the pole in OT. It's screams witchcraft and voodoo and not Christianity. This event is a perfect example of how Christianity adopts pagan and mystical rituals into the cult, and yet they claim they're not influenced. What they did is voodoo 101. xxeditxx Maybe they need an exorcist to come and cast out the demons now, after dealing with black majik. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Helmet Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 Really isn't this some form of hidden discrimination? By posting the names of those non-chrisitian they are publicly denouncing them and in a christian environment that's a call for harrassment. What would they think if we ex-christian started to post the names of all the christian at our workplace or in school and call on reunions on how to break their faith. Of course they'd be outraged, so are we! It's ok to share and (hopefully not) convert someone but to point them out and publicly call on their salvation is over the top. I can't believe no one in the community has said anything yet, parents should be screaming. DH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HadouKen24 Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 Holy shit! I just realized that's my hometown! * HadouKen24 is feeling just a bit more nervous about the consequences of eventually coming out as a non-Christian * I used to work at the grocery store across the street from that school. The flag is like, right there where everyone can see it as they go into the school. Goddamn, that's a horrible place to put the names of kids singled out as non-Christians. Will there be lawsuits? I doubt it. Not in that town. Most conservative, uptight, snobby, keeping-up-appearances place in the entire state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandora Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 I agree, Amanda. They stepped Waaayyy over the line. A line that shouldn't even be there. I have seen that done when they nailed their own "sins" to the cross...... but to nail someone's name...............wow. See you at the pole itself, is not a bad thing. At our school, on that one day a year they stand around the flag pole and sing songs and pray. It's not *in your face* or anything like that. But maybe my school is unique........we also have a gay/straight alliance club and it has about the same turn out as See you at the pole. However, the gay/straight alliance meets every week. Ro-Bear? Would your school be able to have a gay/straight club? (Just comparing Tennessee to Oregon.) The G/S Club is looking for a staff member to oversee it. Hhhhmmmm Oh, boy. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> LOL I grew up in a very conservative area of Indianpolis' suburbs. A couple years after I graduated, my old high school was in the news because the administration would not let the students form a gay/straight alliance club. I was soooo embarrassed. When I attended, there were THREE Christian clubs (FCA, YFC, and an independent one that a pastor from the church across the street led. This was one of those mega churches, and as far as most of the Christians were concerned at that school, if you didn't go to that church, you weren't a Christian). Anyways, some girl's father brought in the ICLU and needless to say, the club was allowed. I hear that now, with all the growth in the area, that it is "cool" to be lesbian and goth. Those poor kids are just looking for ways to rebel against their parents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 I agree, Amanda. They stepped Waaayyy over the line. A line that shouldn't even be there. I have seen that done when they nailed their own "sins" to the cross...... but to nail someone's name...............wow. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks TAP , I was speechless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caretaker Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 Holy shit! I just realized that's my hometown! * HadouKen24 is feeling just a bit more nervous about the consequences of eventually coming out as a non-Christian * I used to work at the grocery store across the street from that school. The flag is like, right there where everyone can see it as they go into the school. Goddamn, that's a horrible place to put the names of kids singled out as non-Christians. Will there be lawsuits? I doubt it. Not in that town. Most conservative, uptight, snobby, keeping-up-appearances place in the entire state. Don't feel so bad, I felt the same way when a Seattle man died from injuries he sustained while having sexual intercourse with a horse in my hometown of Enumclaw (Thank you, Vix... ). Eh, at least we still have Nascar driver Kasey Kahne... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 Don't feel so bad, I felt the same way when a Seattle man died from injuries he sustained while having sexual intercourse with a horse in my hometown of Enumclaw (Thank you, Vix... ). Did he get kicked in the balls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HadouKen24 Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 I think I heard about that. No, he didn't get kicked in the balls. He was having sex with... a male horse... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 I think I heard about that. No, he didn't get kicked in the balls. He was having sex with... a male horse... (comment removed, it was too gross) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caretaker Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 (comment removed, it was too gross) Oh, come on........ Do tell /me gets the popcorn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ nivek ♦ Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 Simplified targeting solutions for upcoming Ballistics Parties.. Make note of those doing nailing, take mental snapshot of same.. k, Freeman by Force of Arms, L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 Oh, come on........ Do tell/me gets the popcorn. My comment was: He must have drowned. Insert big EEEEWWH!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ro-bear Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 'Tis a pity the devout can't just be happy with their little public prayer. they just have to call out non-participants. If this happened at my school, I'd be on CNN in a heartbeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caretaker Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 I wonder how they would feel if we got a bunch of atheists together and put up a monument to the "victims of Christianity?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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