Did The Devil Make Me Do It Or Was It God?

[Thackerie]

How do you know it's not your MS effecting your understanding?

End3, this is one of the most unkind things that one human can do to another. Why do you hate so deeply? Does the salvation thing have zero effect on your life? Are you this pissed off, because you don't have any answer for the OP or is it something else? You should apologize for that one dude - totally out of bounds.

 

Meh, it doesn't hurt my feelings. Just consider the source.

 

Besides, I've seen him say even more hateful things to Sconner, implying that the death of his son was deserved divine punishment. Now that's so low it's subterranean!

[lunaticheathen]

Who pissed in End's cheerios?

And, seriously, any one going to address the OP, about how Abraham's god is too psycho to figure out what is "good" and "evil"? End's a good example of this kind of crazy, because the insults in this thread are fucking sick. Even worse than the regular old "you gonna BUUUUURRRRRNNN!" bullshit I called him on in another thread. Which he ignored. Guess he doesn't have any personal info to use on me yet, the little shit.

[Guest Net Eng]

....

 

 

That it had anything to do with different beliefs....I disagree. He is looking for acknowledgment that it was ok to do. Gheez

 

It is OK to question authority. Parents have no special protections from reasonable questioning. In fact a parent should be proud of a child calling their their beliefs into question and citing why.

 

A parent must earn respect.

[Mister Pappy]

And, seriously, any one going to address the OP, about how Abraham's god is too psycho to figure out what is "good" and "evil"? End's a good example of this kind of crazy ...

You are right ... end3 is a good example of one of the reasons for this line of questioning to begin with. It is people like him that go on to blow something up and say that God had told them to do it. The problem I see with this is that the Christian church PROMOTES it by backing up stories like the Abraham / Issac story. My Mother believes that "God doesn't tell us to do bad things." Well that is a nice idea and all, but it is bullshit if you read the Bible. God tells lots of people to do lots of bad shit. So, how do we separate the nuts into the nut pile and the Godly hero into the hero pile when they ALL have the same story and often the same deeds?

 

LNC very easily could end up on death row some day for killing someone, but if he says God told him to, how does anyone know if God did or didn't? Scary when you think about it.

[noob]

Mister Pappy, good on you for having such a wonderful relationship with your mother! I think the mutual respect and the obvious love you have for each other is awesome. I also think that you did give mom pause with your Abraham/Isaac goading.

 

Thackerie, Sconner and anyone else that end3 has been showering with christian love, my heart hurts for you and I feel sad that you have been subjected to his poison.

 

And finally, end3, what are you doing? As I read through this thread I felt so angry and disgusted with you that I wanted to strike out. If I were still a christian and I encountered someone behaving the way you do and professing to be a christian I would feel embarrassed to be associated with you. As an ex-christian I want to reassure you that your light is shining! There is a big, bright spotlight on you that clearly illuminates the face of your horrific god.

[Sconnor]

And, seriously, any one going to address the OP, about how Abraham's god is too psycho to figure out what is "good" and "evil"? End's a good example of this kind of crazy ...

You are right ... end3 is a good example of one of the reasons for this line of questioning to begin with. It is people like him that go on to blow something up and say that God had told them to do it. The problem I see with this is that the Christian church PROMOTES it by backing up stories like the Abraham / Issac story. My Mother believes that "God doesn't tell us to do bad things." Well that is a nice idea and all, but it is bullshit if you read the Bible. God tells lots of people to do lots of bad shit. So, how do we separate the nuts into the nut pile and the Godly hero into the hero pile when they ALL have the same story and often the same deeds?

 

LNC very easily could end up on death row some day for killing someone, but if he says God told him to, how does anyone know if God did or didn't? Scary when you think about it.

 

This may be of some interest to some, who have NOT heard it.

 

This is an excerpt (below) from my testimonial at exchristian about the death of my son:

 

I also have a evangelical Christian friend who decided to walk with me once or twice a week, because he said, "I want to help and I love you, man." A couple of weeks into our walk we were discussing Abraham and Issac of the Bible and I asked him, "If God asked you to kill your son, would you do it?" "Yes," was his answer. I then asked him how he would do it? He thought a little longer and I had to prod him. "Would you choke him to death? Would you shoot him? Would you beat him to death?" His answer was, "I would probably slit his throat."

 

(SLIT - HIS - THROAT)

 

I was dumbfounded. This is where his blind faith has taken him, and you have to remember that he was telling this to me, a father who's child had just died. Needless to say, he is not my friend anymore, and never will be again.

 

This is still so upsetting and scary, to this day. How many whack-job christians think like this? How could they possibly know that it was god asking them to do such a thing as opposed to the theater of their own delusional mind? Could they even imagine the horror and the suffering that their child would feel having their own dad commit such an atrocity? This is sick thinking; in a word -- vile.

 

Folks -- this is the dark disgusting underbelly of christianity.

 

--S.

[Guest end3]

You people are simply amazing....the lengthy justifications of your own bad behavior.

 

And Scott, you assess my mental stability and call it diseased by some unknown super duper diagnosing ability, and then someone with actual demonstrated disease like MS, you say that person understands completely by ad populum? You don't see the irony in that bud? Obviously you didn't see the point that I was trying to make with the MS remark because you are sharp like a bowling ball. You people actually think I don't care about someone with MS? Idiots.

 

Happy Pappy abuses his mother and this is ok behavior....because he wants to? Even justified as being mature Noob? Let me assure you, there is a distinct difference between adult discussion and being rude because you can.

 

Quote from Happy Pappy: However, these days, my Mother doesn't like answering my questions as much. I still like asking them though - most of the time just for fun - for me, not her. I know its not very nice, but sometimes I can't help myself.

 

Edit: NO SHIT PAPPY, Ya RECON??? Would you want to talk with your disrespectful adult child?

 

 

You are all pathetic even on a rudimentary level.

[lunaticheathen]

You people are simply amazing....the lengthy justifications of your own bad behavior.

 

Look who's talking, asshole.

 

And Scott, you assess my mental stability and call it diseased by some unknown super duper diagnosing ability, and then someone with actual demonstrated disease like MS, you say that person understands completely by ad populum? You don't see the irony in that bud? Obviously you didn't see the point that I was trying to make with the MS remark because you are sharp like a bowling ball. You people actually think I don't care about someone with MS? Idiots.

 

MS doesn't hinder most people's reasoning, but christianity sure as shit does.

 

Happy Pappy abuses his mother and this is ok behavior....because he wants to? Even justified as being mature Noob? Let me assure you, there is a distinct difference between adult discussion and being rude because you can.

 

Quote from Happy Pappy: However, these days, my Mother doesn't like answering my questions as much. I still like asking them though - most of the time just for fun - for me, not her. I know its not very nice, but sometimes I can't help myself.

 

Edit: NO SHIT PAPPY, Ya RECON??? Would you want to talk with your disrespectful adult child?

 

 

You are all pathetic even on a rudimentary level.

 

No one gives a flying fuck what you think about Pappy's relationship with his mother - in fact, most of us wish you would shut the ever loving FUCK UP ABOUT IT. You are a prime example of why I am so very fucking proud to not be a christian. You don't have an ounce of human compassion, you are purposely stupid and blind, and you are just a plain sorry fucking excuse for a human being. Go to your hell and burn in it, you fucking shit pile.

[Mister Pappy]

Folks -- this is the dark disgusting underbelly of christianity.

Damn Sconnor - great post - great story!

 

Quote from Happy Pappy: However, these days, my Mother doesn't like answering my questions as much. I still like asking them though - most of the time just for fun - for me, not her. I know its not very nice, but sometimes I can't help myself.

Dude, if you can't tell the difference between a tongue-in-cheek reference to my bantering back and forth with my Mother and someone who has an abusive relationship with a relative, then you really shouldn't be here commenting at all.

 

I have had all of you I care to stomach - period. This is the last time I will recognize that you exist in print. I will ask any others who have had the same belly full of your shit, that I have, to join me. You will simply not hear from me at all, ever. Have a nice life with Jesus.

[Guest end3]

I have had all of you I care to stomach - period.

 

Kind of like your mother when she hangs up on you.

[FiddlingAround]

End, stop.

 

We've always gotten along well on those threads where we interacted, so I hope that you will at least consider it when I tell you that as much as you like to see yourself as the defender of the faithful, in this case all that has happened is that you jumped to conclusions, overreacted and stuck your foot deeply in your mouth. And then, instead of pulling it out and being on your way, you seem bound and determined to cram it in all the way to the thigh. I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you didn't mean it the way it sounded, but your comment to Thackerie still crossed a fairly major line.

 

You need to stop. Please.

[Sconnor]

You people are simply amazing....the lengthy justifications of your own bad behavior.

 

And Scott, you assess my mental stability and call it diseased by some unknown super duper diagnosing ability,

 

No fuck-tard – you admitted to having bipolar personality disorder and you believe Yahweh delivers holy writ from his godly mind directly into yours. No super duper diagnosing ability needed. You're bat-shit crazy.

 

and then someone with actual demonstrated disease like MS, you say that person understands completely by ad populum? You don't see the irony in that bud?

 

Nope; that was not the argument – the amount of people was not the implication; it was the use of critical thinking skills and reason, used by exchristians that shows the validity of her spot on evaluation of your diseased mind.

 

And, oh; still no irony in this post or the last one -- shit-for-brains.

 

 

Obviously you didn't see the point that I was trying to make with the MS remark because you are sharp like a bowling ball. You people actually think I don't care about someone with MS? Idiots.

 

You were taking advantage of Thackeries condition to make another inane poin...so; no -- you don't give a shit.

 

Happy Pappy abuses his mother and this is ok behavior....because he wants to? Even justified as being mature Noob?

 

Abuses his mother? Monumental leap in the false allegation and maligning department and unwarranted hyperbole – huh end?

 

Still beating the dead horse of bogus accusations.

 

You are all pathetic even on a rudimentary level.

 

Riiiiiiight end we’re the ones with the problem – all of us. We’re the ones who are mistaken – all of us. We’re the ones who are getting it wrong – all of us. (more sarcasm)

 

Can you even hear how fucking crazy you sound? It’s not me; it’s not me – it’s everyone else I tell you… it’s not me…I’m fine, I tell you….it’s them not me……………it’s them not me……………..it’s them not me………cuckoo, cuckoo, cuckoo……………….

 

Funny how everyone realizes that you’re the sick asshole who spews irrelevant, extraneous, vacuous bullshit that has nothing to do with this sites exchristian-oriented topics.

 

--S.

[Dagan]

End, your constant use of the term "you people" has me convinced you've slid into the territory of viewing us as ex-christians as "other" to yourself.

 

It's a quick step from there to the vitriol and abuse you've been spewing lately, and from there, it only gets worse.

 

We're not your enemies but when you come on like some holier-than-thou missionary to the poor dumb willful savages who need to have their spirit broken, well, what kind of reaction do you expect.

 

Do whatever it takes to get your head straight. Pray, see a Christian counsellor, see a psychiatrist, take a vacation, whatever.

[Vigile]

You are all pathetic even on a rudimentary level.

 

After what you said about his son? You are a pathetic human being. Somewhere your humanity was lost. I don't even blame your religion. I know plenty of loving xians. You are not in that category.

[Crazy Donna]

I'm a bit of a latecomer to this thread, but I'd just like to point out a few things.

 

Firstly, Pappy, you are truly fortunate to have such a fantastic relationship with your mother. But such a relationship can be important in self growth. Asking your mother hard questions sometimes may encourage her growth as a person. You never stop learning or growing. There is no time limit.

 

I think your phone call to your mother demonstrates an important feature of christianity -- that it can be unravelled by the simplest of logic. It is so contrived, like a house of cards, each dependent on each other. When you try to move one, the whole house of cards collapses.

 

Your mother retreated because she clings to her beliefs, and you gently poked one of those beliefs, and she realised for a second how hopelessly fragile the whole structure of christianity is. She freaked out. It's a totally normal situation. But hopefully she'll be bothered by things like this. That's not necessarily a bad thing. It's an opportunity for personal growth.

 

And finally, to End. Disgraceful ad hominem attacks on others are no replacement for actually answering questions that are posed to you, and in End's case, such attacks are totally transparent. End, you have nothing, so you are resorting to insults and personal attacks. If you have nothing to say on the topic, maybe you should just shut up. You're the worst example of a christian I've ever seen, and if I was still a christian and going to your church, I'd be embarrassed to be associated with you.

 

Great thread, Pappy. Thoroughly enjoying it.

[Guest end3]

How do you know it's not your MS effecting your understanding?

End3, this is one of the most unkind things that one human can do to another. Why do you hate so deeply? Does the salvation thing have zero effect on your life? Are you this pissed off, because you don't have any answer for the OP or is it something else? You should apologize for that one dude - totally out of bounds.

 

Meh, it doesn't hurt my feelings. Just consider the source.

 

Besides, I've seen him say even more hateful things to Sconner, implying that the death of his son was deserved divine punishment. Now that's so low it's subterranean!

 

No, I do not remember saying that....If so, I would ask that you provide the quote. Secondly, I was attempting to demostrate the grossly weak construct of Sconnor's argument....that my views are inherently flawed because of "disease", and that you, with MS, are automatically right because the population here agrees with you. I have friends and family that suffer from debilitating disease such as CF and cancer.....and one aunt who died years ago, specifically from MS....when much less knowledge was known about the disease.

[oddbird1963]

End3's meltdown is due to him not being able to admit he read too much of his own issues into Pappy's original post.

 

I suggest we let him writhe in the corner and spout obscenities while the grown ups get back to their discussion. It's like giving a tantrumming kid too much attention. It only leads to more tantrums.

 

Now, back to the OP.

 

Case in point: In the middle a worship service where people are at the front of the church, sprawled out before the altar. You are a lay-minister standing at the altar receiving people who want someone to pray for them. To your right is a person in a wheel chair with some debilitating disease praying with hands raised, tears rolling down their face, eyes lifted towards heaven.

 

Suddenly, a feeling comes over you accompanied by this thought: "You go over there , put your hands on that person in the wheel chair and pray for healing. If you pray for them, they will be healed!"

 

You obey the thought/feeling/voice that you are CERTAIN is from god. But, the person is not healed. They are grateful for the prayer. It is always a "blessing" to have someone pray over you.

 

But, god said they would be healed. They were not.

 

These kinds of struggles and questions are real to thoughtful christians who go through the tortuous mind game of christian showmanship every day.

 

This was an incident shared with me by a pentecostal friend years ago.

 

So, by what pre-established line of reasoning do we determine that the "voice" or "impression" was from god or not?

 

Is it automatically NOT from god because the thing didn't happen?

 

Did the person in the wheel chair lack faith?

 

Was it just an exercise to teach obedience and faith despite any expectation of results?

 

How does one know?

 

Pappy's OP is valid. Christianity really provides no guidance to its people on this.

[Thackerie]

How do you know it's not your MS effecting your understanding?

End3, this is one of the most unkind things that one human can do to another. Why do you hate so deeply? Does the salvation thing have zero effect on your life? Are you this pissed off, because you don't have any answer for the OP or is it something else? You should apologize for that one dude - totally out of bounds.

 

Meh, it doesn't hurt my feelings. Just consider the source.

 

Besides, I've seen him say even more hateful things to Sconner, implying that the death of his son was deserved divine punishment. Now that's so low it's subterranean!

 

No, I do not remember saying that....If so, I would ask that you provide the quote. Secondly, I was attempting to demostrate the grossly weak construct of Sconnor's argument....that my views are inherently flawed because of "disease", and that you, with MS, are automatically right because the population here agrees with you. I have friends and family that suffer from debilitating disease such as CF and cancer.....and one aunt who died years ago, specifically from MS....when much less knowledge was known about the disease.

 

 

First of all, I have work to do and I'm not going to waste my time looking up your old quotes. It's disgusting and depressing enough to read your fresh posts.

 

Secondly, I'm sorry your aunt was among the 1% of people who die directly from MS; a total of about 10% of MS sufferers die from complications of the disease. For 90% of the people who have it, it is life changing but not life threatening.

 

And my mind is just fine, thank you. Just because I can no longer walk without using a walker or crutches doesn't mean I can't think rationally. I hope you are not so abysmally ignorant as to presume that having a physical disability automatically renders one mentally impaired as well.

 

If you or anyone else want to know more about MS, look it up. The Internet is full of information. But, this thread is NOT about me or my condition, and it was EXTREMELY RUDE of you to go off on an insulting tangent and derail it. Let's get back to the topic of the OP. If you have nothing to say on the topic, say nothing (though a great big apology from you to all of us is warranted, but not expected given your track record).

Finally, don't bother posting any more messages to me. In real life, I try to stay far, far away from nasty, negative people like you, and I don't respect the opinions you've expressed here, so, henceforth, I will not respond to you.

[Mister Pappy]

It is so contrived, like a house of cards, each dependent on each other. When you try to move one, the whole house of cards collapses.

You are so right. You never know when you pull at a thread, if the whole sweater will unravel.

 

Christianity really provides no guidance to its people on this.

And the worst of that is simply that the "flock" starts "hearing shit". Next thing you know, all kinds of weird crap is happening, because "God" can REALLY tell people to do some STRANGE stuff, when turned loose. Look at the "Florida outpouring" (can be googled by that term) as an example.

[par4dcourse]

These kinds of struggles and questions are real to thoughtful christians who go through the tortuous mind game of christian showmanship every day.

 

This was an incident shared with me by a pentecostal friend years ago.

 

So, by what pre-established line of reasoning do we determine that the "voice" or "impression" was from god or not?

 

Is it automatically NOT from god because the thing didn't happen?

 

Did the person in the wheel chair lack faith?

 

Was it just an exercise to teach obedience and faith despite any expectation of results?

 

How does one know?

 

Pappy's OP is valid. Christianity really provides no guidance to its people on this.

 

Very true. I was raised pentecostal, have been sprawled in front of the altar, and worried myself sick why the other folks felt something I didn't. Been the pray-er and the pray-ee (as well as the prey) and nobody had any good arguments as to why "the voice of god" was wrong so often.

 

 

 

[Mister Pappy]

Very true. I was raised pentecostal, have been sprawled in front of the altar, and worried myself sick why the other folks felt something I didn't. Been the pray-er and the pray-ee (as well as the prey) and nobody had any good arguments as to why "the voice of god" was wrong so often.

I was also raised pentecostal - the UPC kind as well as the free lance kind. I was in constant turmoil that all the "spiritual shit" I did was just ME and not God. It was pretty humorous when I started discovering that every single one of my fellow fuck wads were thinking the same thing! We were just a bunch of monkeys in a cage wondering if we were the only real monkey in the cage .... crazy morons we were.

[Sconnor]

How do you know it's not your MS effecting your understanding?

End3, this is one of the most unkind things that one human can do to another. Why do you hate so deeply? Does the salvation thing have zero effect on your life? Are you this pissed off, because you don't have any answer for the OP or is it something else? You should apologize for that one dude - totally out of bounds.

 

Meh, it doesn't hurt my feelings. Just consider the source.

 

Besides, I've seen him say even more hateful things to Sconner, implying that the death of his son was deserved divine punishment. Now that's so low it's subterranean!

 

No, I do not remember saying that....If so, I would ask that you provide the quote. Secondly, I was attempting to demostrate the grossly weak construct of Sconnor's argument....that my views are inherently flawed because of "disease",

 

Your views are inherently loco as a direct result of your diseased mind.

 

Diseased in two respects:

 

1. You – admittedly -- have a bipolar personality disorder, which affects your thinking as evidenced by these posts. i.e. (making false allegations, accusations and bogus diagnoses, by projecting your own mentally disturbed issues on others. Not knowing this only provides more evidence that you are not right in the mind.)

 

2. Your thinking is further distorted as evidenced by how you habitually make shit up, by constructing elaborate delusions where you believe you know the will and character of god -- a ton of bullshit, ALL of which you can NOT substantiate and you believe Yahweh delivers holy writ from his godly mind directly into yours and with ALL the gall of an insane person you tell us it’s ALL true. This alone is ample evidence that you are a nut-job and the fact you can NOT come to the realization that this is a portrait of a crazy person means you’re suffering from another psychological problem – denial.

 

Your mind is diseased, it is NOT functioning properly, you are not thinking straight – plain and simple.

 

If you can NOT acknowledge and remedy this you will forever be labeled a crazy person with a bipolar personality disorder who makes unsubstantiated bullshit god-claims.

 

 

and that you, with MS, are automatically right because the population here agrees with you.

 

Still propagating this lie? Thackerie is NOT automatically right because of the number of people who agree with her; she is right because she gave a sound and reasonable evaluation of your mental condition (more evidence of your diseased mind in action), which anyone with critical thing skills (like the exchristians who agreed with her evaluation) can attest to.

 

Here’s the spot on evaluation for your viewing pleasure:

 

P.S. I don't usually bother getting into discussions after END has pooped on them because, frankly, I usually can't understand what the hell he is nattering on about. (To this casual observer, he appears to be "under the influence" or hungover much of the time.) But this mommy-boy attempt to derail this thread because he couldn't answer the OP with anything approaching intellectual honesty is so apparent that I felt moved to comment. I'm done now, so, please carry on the intended discussion, without all this mommyrot and poppycock.

[Mister Pappy]

Your views are inherently loco as a direct result of your diseased mind.

Sconner,

 

I know you have a lot of ill feelings, and I can understand why. I was just wondering if I could ask you to start a thread about it where you and end could go at each other indefinitely. I mean no offense, just wondering.

 

Pappy

 

 

[Sconnor]

Your views are inherently loco as a direct result of your diseased mind.

Sconner,

 

I know you have a lot of ill feelings, and I can understand why. I was just wondering if I could ask you to start a thread about it where you and end could go at each other indefinitely. I mean no offense, just wondering.

 

Pappy

 

We tried that – end inevitably bales, moving onto other threads where he can spew the same unsubstantiated nonsense.

 

Wherever end spews his unsubstantiated bullshit about the will and character of god, I want to be there to call him out.

 

But then again, if we could ALL agree to ignore him I would gladly jump on that bandwagon.

 

--S.

[Mister Pappy]

But then again, if we could ALL agree to ignore him I would gladly jump on that bandwagon.

I think that is the best idea yet ... I vote yes to it. How about we just pretend he isn't there, cause he really isn't all there. Everybody game?