daniel_1012 Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 Psalms 39:3 - My heart was hot within me, while I was musing the fire burned: then spake I with my tongue Whether you are Christian or not, here is some light that came to me tonight at work while thinking. Do I believe that EVERYTHING in the Bible is the truth? I believe that if God's word did not still exist in a tangible form such as the Bible where men could reference, the earth would cease to exist. Though God's truth is very much ALIVE outside of the Bible, in His children -- this point of reference is important for Christians, and all men alike. I believe that if God's word was not still in the world, we would all be already wiped out, because God would have no reason to allow man to live if without His Word. (Proverbs 30:5) - Every word of God proves true; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. (Matthew 4:4) - But he answered, "It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.'" What I believe is that everything in the Bible is a carbon copy of the truth, though the Bible itself is not the truth, the Bible is truth's carbon copy. I believe God had it written by men who knew Him, men who loved Him, and I believe men today speak truth that is equally the Word. However, not being part of the carbon copy passed down through time, of course we don't add to it, or we put that carbon copy in jeopardy. However, even today men can speak the truth, and not find it verbatim in the Bible. I believe that those words, if they be the truth, will be yet another carbon copy of the Word given to us in the Bible -- if those words are different from what our Bible carbon copy says, then they are false. (Luke 1:1-4)1 Inasmuch as many have undertaken to compile a narrative of the things which have been accomplished among us, 2 just as they were delivered to us by those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word, 3 it seemed good to me also, having followed all things closely for some time past, to write an orderly account for you, most excellent The-oph'ilus, 4 that you may know the truth concerning the things of which you have been informed. I believe this carbon copy is only a piece of a larger puzzle that cannot be seen or completed on earth, just as an entire puzzle is only a snapshot of a larger world it cannot complete. This is why puzzle makers can make so many puzzles -- each puzzle is a part of everything, and the number of puzzles that can be made is literally infinite, just as God is infinite; just as we will walk through this life with many mysteries yet to discover. I believe that piece we are given serves us with enough information to survive within the parameters of this puzzle piece we live in. Also, this puzzle piece in which we live is itself, another puzzle each man works to complete while in his lifetime -- This life is a puzzle we work to complete, and this life we work to complete, is part of a much larger puzzle we cannot complete as well. Even this puzzle we are working on currently, is a work in progress, and it is so big that no man can complete it. Though, man does not have enough life to get a full picture of this life, let alone, the pieces of the puzzle he has yet to discover outside of this life God has yet to reveal when all is revealed. In the end, the piece we live on is sufficient for our survival, and we piece together this puzzle with what God has given us, only to have it completed for us by God Himself in the end . What do we do with puzzles when we put them together? Most people start at its edge, and establish its borders. This is the first thing that is done. Once its whole border is established, we work our way inward as with any puzzle. As we work our way inward, a bigger picture is revealed, having used this border as a guide. Although a puzzle can be put together from the center piece, its highly inefficient. Time and trials have proven it to be a longer and a more difficult road. Using the Bible on a regular basis, we sort through its pieces to establish our borders in this life; without this frame established, time spent on putting it together is exponentially increased. One can even know God without the Bible, this much is certain -- but if once this man has found Christ he is given a Bible, he can establish the borders and move efficiently across this life. This border shows us how far the picture goes, within this piece of life we have been given. The Bible is a shadow of the truth, we go to it for the shape of God, and if we follow it we will find him. Though sometimes that shape appears short in mid-day, dawn and dusk it looks long and narrow -- still at other times when the light hits it just right, we see the shape of God just as He is. Though in all shapes, it is Him all the same -- depending upon how the light hits it, when it hits it, the length and girth of God is revealed in different ways. I believe that like a shadow, if we follow it along its set borders, then we will eventually come to the feet of God who is casting the shadow shown to us by the Bible. Like a shadow -- it is not the truth... God is the truth, and if you truly follow it, you will find Him standing at it's beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Iconoclastic1 Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 Despite what you might think, this is not an example of profound deep thought or philosophical musing, it's pandering to the meme complex you're infected by. One of the ways the christianity meme reinforces its hold on its hosts is by redefining words or concepts to something that suits the meme. In this case you've redefined "truth" to mean the bible(or the original translation, or the inspired word of God, or whatever the hell). There isn't enough truth in the bible to fill a thimble, I could have spit on a piece of paper and made a more profound philosophical statement than you just did. The bible emerged out of a superstitious culture that did not have the scientific wherewithal to conceive of any explanation for natural occurances other than, "God did it". You might as well be patterning your life around some prehistoric cave drawings. The fact that anybody still believes the bible is anything other than a collection of ancient mythology is a testament to the power of memetics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyFeline Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 Daniel: plzshutupangoawaykthx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heimdall Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 I find it strange that you take your user name from the one book of the OT that is a proven pseudepigraphia! Daniel can be shown to have been "created" around the Second Century BCE by Maccabbean scribes. So much for the truth of your book of mythology! - Heimdall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 I believe that if God's word did not still exist in a tangible form such as the Bible where men could reference, the earth would cease to exist. Well I believe you're a total moron. I didn't read past this paragraph. What's the point? Anyone as gullible as you obviously has nothing to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 The world would be getting along just fine without the bible. The only thing that is really clear, is that without the bible, you would be unable to think. You don't know it right now, but maybe someday you will understand that the bible has so permeated your mind, that your very thought processes are not your own. I kinda feel sorry for you. (now, you can go ahead and retort that you feel sorry for us, because we are all going to hell) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 I mean, it's a nice piece of writing, daniel. About life being a puzzle, and everybody's just trying to figure it out. But, we already did the bible gig. Many of us for a very very long time. And we found it to be lacking. We found most (but not all) of the bible to be not true. We found that it produces people who are worse people, not better people, for having believed. Our "hearts are hot within us" in the belief that you are following and devoting your life to a lie. It's your right to believe as you wish. Just don't expect us, after we have finally climbed out of that slimy pit, to be coaxed back into it by a few bible verses. (That we already know by heart, anyway) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulgaris Prime Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 Just stop posting, Danny boy. You're not amusing anymore, you're just annoying. All your "GAWD IS TEH REAL" screaming isn't convincing anyone. Go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy-tiger Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 Thanks for the gift of complete idiocy, but you'll find that most of the people here don't want it. Take your "gift" and shove it up the holy ghost's ass... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Iconoclastic1 Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 If you feel like giving those who post here a real gift instead of a false one, I'd be glad to give you my paypal number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 I'll give Daniel some credit here. He at least uses the return key unlike that other Xtian we have spewing his junk on the forums. Of course, Daniel still is a brainwashed Xtian who belives in fairy tales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trashy Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 Well I believe you're a total moron. I didn't read past this paragraph. Me either. At no point in 30+ years of inerrantist, YEC Christianity did I believe that the existence of the earth relied on a written copy of the Bible. Didn't God's *spoken* word bring all things into existence? That's what the Bible claims. Just wondering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trashy Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 I'll give Daniel some credit here. He at least uses the return key unlike that other Xtian we have spewing his junk on the forums. Of course, Daniel still is a brainwashed Xtian who belives in fairy tales. Pretty sad when the only reason a Christian can get credit here is for proper spelling, grammer and formatting! LOL As a matter of fact, it's just TOO damn neat. I suspect copy and paste, but that's just me...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dio Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 Here's a gift for you, Daniel. You're a young man. Don't waste your life. Wake up. Don't be fooled by manipulative people wielding ridiculous fairy tales for their own benefit and profit. At least step away from it for awhile. If it's real, it'll still be there if and when you return. Can't do that, huh? See, that's where they have you trapped. Even to doubt for a moment is to apostasize. It is a system with its own built-in failsafes. That's what makes it so effective and so dangerous. The fact is, that if you really open your eyes, just once, you will see that the emperor has no clothes, and that there is little of any substance beyond some quaint traditions and pleasant little not-very-profound moral guidelines. But the hidden side, the dark side of that worldview is so clouded and obscured, it can only be seen by lifting the veil, by asking questions and by truly looking and observing. I spent twenty years of my life believing and living the lie, from about your age until just past 40, and while I lived a good life and accomplished and experienced much, it could have been so much better and so much more (and it is becoming so each day I am further away from that insidious worldview of guilt, negativity, and fear). While your gift-giving attempt is appreciated, I hope you kept the receipt because I don't think there will be any takers here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixoverme Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 yeah...them greeks and asian cultures did super shitty without the bible...and by the way...read it...your supposed philosophical take on what the bible is...is...well...wrong..according to the bible and according to modern doctrine...if youre going to do this xian thing...do it right...otherwise...youre just like a false prophet...or you could read some thomas merton and get something useful from theology Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 Daniel, I think more thought and consideration went into the formatting and wording of your post than into the actual content. It takes very little effort to engage in self-justification. There is no critical thought going on here. It's part of why you don't understand us. On some level you probably think we followed someone's guidance to get where we are now, and you want to see us guided back. What you don't get is that not a one of us were guided. We questioned. And when the religion we believed in did not answer those questions, instead of accepting, sitting, and shutting up, we went in search of answers on our own. Personally I wound up backtracking religion through it's historical roots, to it's pagan beginnings, and even further back to contemplations as to what there was about the species of humanity that made us need ritual in the first place. It would take far to long to relate everything I learned. I left christianity well before I found this website. The point is, no one "guided" me. Not one author or speaker, or public scientific figure was my inspiration to leave religion. A lot of others here would likely say the same. We all had different journeys, but this website has crossed all our paths. And we find comfort in not being the only ones not blithely going wherever the current takes us. Since no one guided me away, except my own self, how exactly do you propose to guide me back? With a book full of stories that have been reworked and reworded from prior pagan myths and legends? With the words of church leaders whose lives have been proven time and again to have commited various high profile crimes against their fellows and flock? You expect me to trust the word or guidance of people who've never critically examined their own beliefs? Over myself? Not gonna happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Gods Fail Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 Here's a gift for you, Daniel. You're a young man. Don't waste your life. Wake up. Don't be fooled by manipulative people wielding ridiculous fairy tales for their own benefit and profit. At least step away from it for awhile. If it's real, it'll still be there if and when you return. Can't do that, huh? See, that's where they have you trapped. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Dio, you're a saint. You've taken a much better tack with Danny than I did. On another thread I've been trying to tell him this fact over and over and he completely ignores it. I've returned the favor and put him on my iggy list, because his head is too far up his ass. He simply doesn't have the ability to hear what you're saying at this point. The only hope for him now is the same as for any other kind of addict - he'll have to hit bottom, and hopefully he'll still have enough of his own mind left to start over. Anyway, you said it so nicely! Well done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clergicide Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 People who believe: Rednecks Pedophiles Neo-Nazis Klan members Homophobics Incestuous Hillbillies Children left-behind etc etc. Yah, I'm gonna throw my card in with this lot real soon, Danny. Think I'll stick to reading books instead of burning them, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asuryan Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 Psalms 39:3 - My heart was hot within me, while I was musing the fire burned: then spake I with my tongue Whether you are Christian or not, here is some light that came to me tonight at work while thinking. Do I believe that EVERYTHING in the Bible is the truth? Hmm... It's very well spoken, daniel. A wonderful little piece of introspection. However, that introspection is totally useless to me and to many others here. Because, you see, you go lenghts to talk about the bible, and the truth, but everything you say is told and seen from the perspective of someone who believes in the Xtian God, the one the Bible talks about. We don't. So we don't share the starting assumptions you are doing here, Daniel. Since we don't share those, we can't share the whole of your writ here, and neither we can share your conclusions. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 It's part of why you don't understand us. On some level you probably think we followed someone's guidance to get where we are now, and you want to see us guided back. Which is weird, since we keep on hearing that we never were Christians, so how can we go back? Back to what? Back to be not-Christians again? Why, when we already are non-Christians right now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 good point, hansolo. Course, every one of the religionists who come here think, "No, really. try it again. God will take you back.. Maybe this time you can end up being just like me. A TRUE christian." Gonna have to pass. Thanks for the invite, though. 'Preciate the offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryten Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 Excellent responses! Daniel, you still admit that the foundation of your life is a flawed, man-made book. You don't know which parts are absolutely true and literal, and which parts are copyist error, bad translation, human opinion, lies-for-Jesus, myth or metaphor. You have no foundation. This place is full of former die-hard bible-believing God-fearing Jesus-loving spirit-filled Christians, and most of them dumped Xianity after study and research-- digging for facts and truth. Twenty, thirty years as believers, and we're not talking about "well I'm American so I guess I'm a Christian" here. Think about it. Don't ask other Christians for permission, just be bold and think about it on your own!! I suggest you seriously consider Dio's gift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HadouKen24 Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 "Carbon copy of the truth?" Um... what? That doesn't make sense. Truth is a quality that certain statements have, no matter how you define it. It's not something separate, something "out there." You can't have a "copy" of truth. Your whole paradigm seems just... incoherent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixoverme Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 i dont think they had carbon paper back then either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 Nature and the physical world is the "carbon copy" of the only and absolute truth there is. As of now, we don't know anything that exists besides the physical world, so it really doesn't mean anything to make up bunched of hypothesis about the things we don't know about. We can however make up hypothesis and theories about the things we do see and we can measure, that's what we call science. I'm so fascinated that people so easily are duped from mere words they read. They get a book that is 2000 years old, and someone they trust tell them this books is the truth. And people just swallow it whole! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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