My gift to all people that post here.

[Vigile]

I propose a companion to the fundy seagull.  We could call people like Daniel fundy turtles.  Because of their soft underbellies and... well...

 

Just look at the picture.

 

I think this one might be more appropriate for our new resident genius:

 

And the scary thing is he actually thinks he's making points with the slinky thing. Once again, IQ and education prove to have an inverse relationship with fundementalism.

[Amethyst]

That's a good one! Fundy turtles. LOL

 

Michaelangelo: We must obey Master Splinter or The Shredder will get us.

 

Donatello: Master Splinter is all.

 

Raphael: We love Master Splinter. Master Splinter loves everyone. Believe in Master Splinter or the Shredder will get you.

 

Leonard: Master Splinter...Master Splinter...Master Splinter...

 

[Mr. Neil]

 

And the scary thing is he actually thinks he's making points with the slinky thing.

The only point he seems to have is the one at the top of his dunce cap.

[Ouroboros]

K

Great post Karl. I saved a copy of it.

 

Have you ever looked into the question if Jesus was dead 3 days or not?

Because the tradition has that he died on Friday afternoon, but was resurrected before Monday morning. Which only gives us 2.5 days. Do you have any knowledge about this question?

[MQTA]

Michaelangelo:  We must obey Master Splinter or The Shredder will get us.

 

Donatello:  Master Splinter is all.

 

Raphael:  We love Master Splinter.  Master Splinter loves everyone.  Believe in Master Splinter or the Shredder will get you.

 

Leonard:  Master Splinter...Master Splinter...Master Splinter...

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

and then they go order a pizza

[Amethyst]

and then they go order a pizza

 

With chocolate.

[MQTA]

I'm allergic to chocolate

[Ouroboros]

I'm allergic to chocolate

Dibs on your piece then.

[Checkmate]

Dibs on your piece then.

Too late! I ate it. Gotta be quick to beat the Supreme Chocoholic!

[Ouroboros]

Too late!  I ate it.  Gotta be quick to beat the Supreme Chocoholic! 

Damn you! Mr Grinch! Go back to your mountain! The people of Whoville don't like chocolate thiefs.

[MQTA]

glad someone enjoyed it

[Checkmate]

Y'know something? Where is this so-called "gift" that daniel_1012 promised? If that steaming pile he dropped is IT, then he has a warped idea of what constitutes a "gift".

 

Just cause it's brown that don't make it chocolate!

[Dio]

Y'know something?  Where is this so-called "gift" that daniel_1012 promised?  If that steaming pile he dropped is IT, then he has a warped idea of what constitutes a "gift". 

 

Just cause it's brown that don't make it chocolate! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

But don't you see, it's a free gift. You only have to give up your mind, body, and soul.

 

Plus a 10% surcharge...

[Karl-777]

.....Have you ever looked into the question if Jesus was dead 3 days or not? Because the tradition has that he died on Friday afternoon, but was resurrected before Monday morning.

Which only gives us 2.5 days. Do you have any knowledge about this question?

 

As far as I'm concerned, any questions regarding the alleged god-man's time spent in one of the alleged tombs and alleged literal "resurrection" are really immaterial.....the "tradition" is just a continuing part of the monstrous fabrication of fundie literalism.

 

Massey offers an interesting perspective on "Jesus":

.....The personal existence of Jesus as Jehoshua Ben-Pandira can be established beyond a doubt. One account affirms that, according to a genuine Jewish tradition "that man (who is not to be named) was a disciple of Jehoshua Ben-Perachia." It also says, "He was born in the fourth year of the reign of the Jewish King Alexander Jannæus, notwithstanding the assertions of his followers that he was born in the reign of Herod." That would be more than a century earlier than the date of birth assigned to the Jesus of the Gospels!

 

But it can be further shown that Jehoshua Ben-Pandira may have been born considerably earlier even than the year 102 B.C., although the point is not of much consequence here. Jehoshua, son of Perachia, was a president of the Sanhedrin -- the fifth, reckoning from Ezra as the first: one of those who in the line of descent received and transmitted the oral law, as it was said, direct from Sinai. There could not be two of that name. This Ben-Perachia had begun to teach as a Rabbi in the year 154 B.C. We may therefore reckon that he was not born later than 180-170 B.C., and that it could hardly be later than 100 B.C. when he went down into Egypt with his pupil. For it is related that he fled there in consequence of a persecution of the Rabbis, feasibly conjectured to refer to the civil war in which the Pharisees revolted against King Alexander Jannæus, and consequently about 105 B.C. If we put the age of his pupil, Jehoshua Ben-Pandira, at fifteen years, that will give us an approximate date, extracted without pressure, which shows that Jehoshua Ben-Pandira may have been born about the year 120 B.C. But twenty years are a matter of little moment here.

 

According to the Babylonian Gemara to the Mishna of Tract "Shabbath," this Jehoshua, the son of Pandira and Stada, was stoned to death as a wizard, in the city of Lud, or Lydda, and afterwards crucified by being hanged on a tree, on the eve of the Passover.

 

This is the manner of death assigned to Jesus in the Book of Acts. The Gemara says there exists a tradition that on the rest-day before the Sabbath they crucified Jehoshua, on the rest-day of the Passah (the day before the Passover). The year of his death, however, is not given in that account; but there are reasons for thinking it could not have been much earlier nor later than B.C. 70, because this Jewish King Jannæus reigned from the year 106 to 79 B.C. He was succeeded in the government by his widow Salomè, whom the Greeks called Alexandra, and who reigned for some nine years. Now the traditions, especially of the first "Toledoth Jehoshua," relate that the Queen of Jannæus, and the mother of Hyrcanus, who must therefore be Salomè, in spite of her being called by another name, showed favour to Jehoshua and his teaching; that she was a witness of his wonderful works and powers of healing, and tried to save him from the hands of his sacerdotal enemies, because he was related to her; but that during her reign, which ended in the year 71 B.C., he was put to death.

 

The Jewish writers and Rabbis with whom I have talked always deny the identity of the Talmudic Jehoshua and the Jesus of the Gospels. "This," observes Rabbi Jechiels, "which has been related to Jehoshua Ben-Perachia and his pupil, contains no reference whatever to him whom the Christians honour as God!" Another Rabbi, Salman Zevi, produced ten reasons for concluding that the Jehoshua of the Talmud was not he who was afterwards called Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus of Nazareth (and of the Canonical Gospels) was unknown to Justus, to the Jew of Celsus, and to Josephus, the supposed reference to him by the latter being an undoubted forgery.

 

The "blasphemous writings of the Jews about Jesus," as Justin Martyr calls them, always refer to Jehoshua Ben-Pandira, and not to the Jesus of the Gospels. It is Ben-Pandira they mean when they say they have another and a truer account of the birth and life, the wonder-working and death of Jehoshua or Jesus. This repudiation is perfectly honest and soundly based. The only Jesus known to the Jews was Jehoshua Ben-Pandira, who had learnt the arts of magic in Egypt, and who was put to death by them as a sorcerer.

 

This was likewise the only Jesus known to Celsus, the writer of the "True Logos," a work which the Christians managed to get rid of bodily, with so many other of the anti-Christian evidences. Celsus observes that he was not a pure Word, not a true Logos, but a man who had learned the arts of sorcery in Egypt. So, in the Clementines, it is in the character of Ben-Pandira that Jesus is said to rise again as the magician. But here is the conclusive fact: The Jews know nothing of Jesus, the Christ of the Gospels, as an historical character; and when the Christians of the fourth century trace his pedigree, by the hand of Epiphanius, they are forced to derive their Jesus from Pandira! Epiphanius gives the genealogy of the Canonical Jesus in this wise:--

 

Jacob, called Pandira, Mary - Joseph -- Cleopas, Jesus.

 

This proves that in the fourth century the pedigree of Jesus was traced to Pandira, the father of that Jehoshua who was the pupil of Ben-Perachia, and who becomes one of the magicians in Egypt, and who was crucified as a magician on the eve of the Passover by the Jews, in the time of Queen Alexandra, who had ceased to reign in the year 70 B.C.--the Jesus, therefore, who lived and died more than a century too soon.

 

Thus, the Jews do not identify Jehoshua Ben-Pandira with the Gospel Jesus, of whom they, his supposed contemporaries, know nothing, but protest against the assumption as an impossibility; whereas the Christians do identify their Jesus as the descendant of Pandira. It was he or nobody; yet he was neither the son of Joseph nor the Virgin Mary, nor was he crucified at Jerusalem.

 

It is not the Jews, then, but the Christians, who fuse two supposed historic characters into one! There being but one history acknowledged or known on either side, it follows that the Jesus of the Gospels is the Jehoshua of the Talmud, or is not at all, as a Person.....

 

Theosophist Kuhn chimes in from his 1943 masterpiece on Xtian doctrinal fraud:

INTRODUCTION

 

The pick that struck the Rosetta Stone in the loamy soil of the Nile delta in 1796 also struck a mighty blow at historical Christianity. For it released the voice of a long-voiceless past to refute nearly every one of Christianity's historical claims with a withering negative. The cryptic literature of old Egypt, sealed in silence when Christianity took its rise, but haunting it like a taunting specter after the third century, now stalks forth like a living ghost out of the tomb to point its long finger of accusation at a faith that has too long thriven on falsity.....

 

.......The entire Christian Bible, creation legend, descent into and exodus from "Egypt," ark and flood allegory, Israelite "history," Hebrew prophecy and poetry, Gospels, Epistles and Revelation imagery, all are now proven to have been the transmission of ancient Egypt's scrolls and papyri into the hands of later generations which knew neither their true origin nor their fathomless meaning. Long after Egypt's voice, expressed through the inscribed hieroglyphics, was hushed in silence, the perpetuated relics of Hamitic wisdom, with their cryptic message utterly lost, were brought forth and presented to the world by parties of ignorant zealots as a new body of truth. The only new thing about it was the pitiable exegesis that inspired and accompanied the reissuance.......

 

.....By virtue of the fact that man was provided from the start with the presence of a unit of divine fire within the heart of his conscious being, he was adequately equipped to fight his own way to the goal of glory. The only treason of which religious devotion could become capable was the setting up of a fetish outside the life of consciousness, which would divert a single iota of resolute will from the

 

xiii

 

culture of the resident deity. Christianity is the only religion in the civilized world that has perpetuated this treason. The point is inexorably established by logical thought as well as demonstrated by the historical sequel. The matter is beyond debate. By so much as the exaltation of a personal Jesus has beguiled human devotion away from the inner direction in the individual's task of perfecting his own innate divinity, by precisely that much has the outer presentation weakened the strength of mortal struggle to the light. It is psychological, but it is mathematically measurable. The amount measured is the item that ends all argument. If the worship of a Judean carpenter has taken any time and absorbed any psychic effort that could have been expended in the culture of divine graciousness within the heart of humanity, it has by so much held back the evolution of the race.

 

Christianity has taught its adherents, so to say, to play around the fringes of the cultural problem instead of bearing with all their psychic force directly upon its heart. It has hypnotized their devotional mentality under the spell of a promise of vicariousness which is itself subtly conducive to the weakening of the native nobility of man's true selfhood. It has made of its millions--what Nietzsche so thoroughly detested--groveling beggars, reveling in the turpitude of sin-confession and praying for God to have mercy on their unworthiness. It has made them wretches pleading piteously to be saved. How it has ever been assumed that a God of good sense would enjoy seeing his creatures, whom he has himself divinely endowed with a portion of his own Mind, writhing in worm-of-the-dust sycophancy at his feet, is beyond rational understanding...... 

 

From CH I ~ FAITH WEDS FOLLY

 

..........Then, of course, there is that other predicament arising from the egregious claims of the Christian party, which, had it ever been frankly faced by ecclesiasticism, would have left the Occidental world in better situation. It is the matter of God's leaving the world prior to the year thirty-three or thereabouts without any chance to be saved by appropriating the mind of Christ. That the mere opportunity for the operation in humanity's evolution of the saving principle of God's

 

12

 

grace should have been held off until the birth of a babe in Bethlehem at a given year in history, and not have been freely accessible to righteous men antecedently, needs nothing more than its clear statement to advertise its preposterousnss. It would be to say that the normal course of human evolution was held in abeyance, estopped, until the man Jesus arrived. One of our Christmas hymns sings

 

Late in time behold him come,

 

Offspring of the Virgin's womb.

 

It is of course an absurd idea that the road to human elevation was not opened until the man-Christ, Jesus, landed on the planet at a late epoch in the race's career. This is one of many twists and quirks which Christian dogma has asked its votaries to accept, to the dislocation of their rational mentality.......

 

From CH II ~ MYTH TRUER THAN HISTORY

 

........Even in spite of the fact that the whole ancient world looked for the coming of Messiah, and the exoterically taught masses expected it in the form of a living person, how the idea could have taken form in the mind of any intelligent man that his own body would be the vehicle or incorporation of that cosmic power is a glaring feature of the situation not explained by Warschauer or any other apologetic writer. It is left to the omnivorous camel-swallowing maw of that great monster of the genus of stupid religious gullibility, that ever-faithful animal that has carried on its back the priestcraft of the world, to ingest it without choking. The paralysis of the mass mind by the narcotic power of

 

39

 

pious indoctrination affords one of the sorriest spectacles in all history. The cry for sanity in religion through the play of keen critical faculty will be met with violent reprobation by offended traditionalists. "There is no wild beast like an angry theologian" was the comment of the philosophic Julian, the Roman Emperor following Constantine. It has lost little of its truth in the intervening time......

 

Works such as these have been always been attacked or destroyed by the church thoughout history, in an effort to keep the sheeple wallowing in the muck of ignorance. Fortunately, the Internet has made them available to anyone who wishes to explore them, and investigate other viewpoints.

 

Kuhn writes:

.....The primary truth of human culture which is presented by all sage religions of antiquity is the fact that there resides deeply embedded in the core of man's constitution a nucleus of what, for want of a better designation, must be called a divine spark or sun. The glow of Christliness--a thing at once both chemically radio-active and intellectual--in us is indeed the hope of our glory. Modern science, through the work of Dr. George W. Crile, late head of the Cleveland Medical laboratories, has rediscovered what the ancient sages were familiar with--the radiant SUN in man. "Every man," proclaimed the ancients and the Medieval "Fire Philosophers," "has a little SUN within his own breast." This sun is the Christ in man, a nucleus of fiery divine spirit-energy.....

 

Hopefully the reader will find the perspectives in these segments at least somewhat interesting.

 

....But don't you see, it's a free gift. You only have to give up your mind, body, and soul.

 

Plus a 10% surcharge...

 

Ah yes.... the cosmic protection racket. Of course, the 10% surcharge (giving to biblegod) is absolutely critical. (according to some fundies, the first 10% belongs to biblegod anyway, and you haven't really given anything until you give MORE than 10%) It would be pretty tough for a televangelist or preacher to get that new Bentley without it........

 

K

[chohan]

If the worship of a Judean carpenter has taken any time and absorbed any psychic effort that could have been expended in the culture of divine graciousness within the heart of humanity, it has by so much held back the evolution of the race.

 

Great Scott Batman!

 

Hey Karl, where have you been all my life? Great stuff.

 

[cho makes a note... Alvin Boyd Kuhn]

 

If you have anything on Isaiah similiar to the previous Daniel material please let me know. Perhaps Trito-Isaiah (40-66) and an opinion along those lines. Or anyone else is welcome to chime in.

 

cheers,

cho

[Fweethawt]

Great Scott Batman!

 

Hey Karl, where have you been all my life? Great stuff.

 

Keep in mind, Karl is the first person in history ever to have an implant put into his own brain that links him directly into the internet. If Karl's brain is ever on the fritz, then, and only then, do we use Google.

[SkepticOfBible]

Jesus died for the sins of the world.  Whoever believes in Him will not perish, but have ever lasting life.

 

What more do you need to know?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hey I don't want to follow a wrong copy?

 

So you are saying that Jehovahs Witness, Mormons, catholics and all other denomination are saved just because they believe in Christ.

 

 

Mmm, if that is so, then I'll go with Universalist. Atleast they don't preach hellfire. And yes they believe in christ too.