Not_Scarevangelist Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Hello, I don't know if I'll stick to agnosticism or some day will return to the fold (hopefully no)... But all I know is that I don't want to throw out the baby with the bathwater. In other words, I want to be a good person, with high morale! I want to have ONE love, ONE girl, I don't want to steal, I don't want to kill, I want other people to appreciate all good things I do (well this is not Xian as a true Xian should only do things if they please God and not you)... I'd like to have some advise from those of you who have left the fold and haven't let their anger towards Xianity make them give up on being good people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Google Humanism. I find it is easy to be good without god because I feel more accountable. As a christian, I felt justified to hate because god was on my side. I felt justified to treat people differently, especially if they were non christians. Now I realize that I have a finite amount of time left. I should make the best use of it. I find that I'm actually more compassionate. I think you will find that, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randi Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I completely agree with kyle. I've learned that I am more accepting, less judgmental, and therefore, more loving and compassionate towards others becuase I no longer have the holy righteousness Jebus offers on my side. Without god, you learn who you truly are, and you learn the true human condition is not one of sin and hate, but of love and acceptance. We allwant to be loved and accepted. What turns people to anger is self righteous judgment of religious people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_Scarevangelist Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 I'm starting to feel that if God exists, he's probably the one embodied into a good human heart, not a vindictive old monster as depicted in... the Old Testament Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renoliz Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 You know, it is good to think about what makes good qualities in a person and strive towards that so good for you. It has become abundantly clear to me that each society decides for itself what is right and wrong. Each individual that believes in no cheating, stealing, lying and murdering shapes their society. I don't find it all that hard to be a good person, most of the time. God has not assisted me in this endeavor. Looking at different world cultures has certainly given me an idea of what right and wrong look like, I think. I wish you well on your journey. The world needs good people who have thought about their morals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddbird1963 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Hello, I don't know if I'll stick to agnosticism or some day will return to the fold (hopefully no)... But all I know is that I don't want to throw out the baby with the bathwater. In other words, I want to be a good person, with high morale! I want to have ONE love, ONE girl, I don't want to steal, I don't want to kill, I want other people to appreciate all good things I do (well this is not Xian as a true Xian should only do things if they please God and not you)... I'd like to have some advise from those of you who have left the fold and haven't let their anger towards Xianity make them give up on being good people. It sounds like you are saying you don't want to be a jerk. How many agnostics and atheists do you believe actually want to kill or steal? And the desire to be appreciated for the good things you do is a normal, acceptable human desire. It can get out of hand by being too dominant an aspect of your personality. But wanting to be appreciated, understood, loved and accepted are all totally acceptable human desires. The attempt by Christianity to vilify and demonize these desires is destructive in my opinion and among the reasons why Christianity can be an anti-human system of belief. You don't have to embrace theism or join a religion to have those aspirations or achieve a good moral life. What you need is a desire to do the right thing and the discipline to reflect on your attitudes and habits and make thoughtful moral choices. The problem with religion, especially the more conservative and fundamentalist strains of Christianity, is that they so often substitute for thoughtful moral deliberation and then things like stem cell research, sex education , end of life counseling and a host of other important areas are neglected. The good news is you don't have to throw the baby out with the bathwater. The fact is, the water is cleaner and the baby is happier when you make thoughtful moral choices outside the confines of a religion. Religious positions may inform the process, but they don't have to control the process. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thackerie Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 ... I'd like to have some advice from those of you who have left the fold and haven't let their anger towards Xianity make them give up on being good people. You joined this site in 2007. Since then, how many ex-christians have you encountered who gave up on being good? I haven't seen any myself. I have, however, read a lot of posts where ex-christians said they became better people after dropping the judgmental attitude and bigotry that so often come along with being a christian. There are good christians and bad christians, just as there are good non-christians and bad non-christians. You don't need to believe in supernatural stuff to be moral. You just have to have empathy for others and enough intelligence to realize that we all live better without people going around stealing and killing and what not. It's just a matter of applying evolved common sense and the Golden Rule, which is one of the few good things in the bible but originated long, long before the invention of the bible began. Speaking of which, there are a LOT of things in the bible that conflict with our current concepts of morality — pro-genocide, condemnation of rape victims, endorsement of slavery, misogyny, homophobia, allowing the sacrifice of the innocent to escape one's one responsibility, endorsing punishment way out of proportion to the alleged "crime" ... it goes on and on. It baffles me why christians claim the bible is a source of moral instruction. I guess they just don't read, or think, very deeply. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freespirit Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I found myself waking up this morning thinking about cherry-picking. I mean, there ARE good things in Christianity. I guess my main question is about sex. I have been married almost 25 years to the same man. I find that to be a good thing. I think that is a result of Christianity. I would think non-Christians would be quite a bit looser (not if they're married maybe, but if they are single) concerning sex. I just don't think having a lot of partners before marriage is good. I also have a very negative view towards pornography. What say ye about non-Christians? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thackerie Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I found myself waking up this morning thinking about cherry-picking. I mean, there ARE good things in Christianity. I guess my main question is about sex. I have been married almost 25 years to the same man. I find that to be a good thing. I think that is a result of Christianity. I would think non-Christians would be quite a bit looser (not if they're married maybe, but if they are single) concerning sex. I just don't think having a lot of partners before marriage is good. I also have a very negative view towards pornography. What say ye about non-Christians? I have been with the same man for just over 21 years and "living in sin" with him for almost 19 years, so I understand the value of commitment. I just don't see that christianity and the marriage ritual has any kind of leading edge in this regard. Especially since the Bible-Belt South tops the national averages in terms of divorce rate and out-of-wedlock conceptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thackerie Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Immediately after reading through this thread, I read a new message posted on the Main Blog (home page) today at http://new.exchristian.net/2011/02/how-to-stay-christian.html#comment-143424317 I think the advice at the end of it applies to this discussion. It’s a pretty all-inclusive list of how to be a good person without necessarily being a christian: 1. Accept responsibility for your own life. 2. Do not hurt others. 3. Make the world a better place. 4. Live, love, and laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freespirit Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I found myself waking up this morning thinking about cherry-picking. I mean, there ARE good things in Christianity. I guess my main question is about sex. I have been married almost 25 years to the same man. I find that to be a good thing. I think that is a result of Christianity. I would think non-Christians would be quite a bit looser (not if they're married maybe, but if they are single) concerning sex. I just don't think having a lot of partners before marriage is good. I also have a very negative view towards pornography. What say ye about non-Christians? I have been with the same man for just over 21 years and "living in sin" with him for almost 19 years, so I understand the value of commitment. I just don't see that christianity and the marriage ritual has any kind of leading edge in this regard. Especially since the Bible-Belt South tops the national averages in terms of divorce rate and out-of-wedlock conceptions. Well you may be right, but I was just reading a book written by a gynecologist telling about some of her experiences and it seems like she has had many, many partners. How does a person outside of Christianity and religion draw lines that are not harmful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randi Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I found myself waking up this morning thinking about cherry-picking. I mean, there ARE good things in Christianity. I guess my main question is about sex. I have been married almost 25 years to the same man. I find that to be a good thing. I think that is a result of Christianity. I would think non-Christians would be quite a bit looser (not if they're married maybe, but if they are single) concerning sex. I just don't think having a lot of partners before marriage is good. I also have a very negative view towards pornography. What say ye about non-Christians? I don't think it's the result of Christianity so much as that's how some people are wired. My boyfriend has never been a Christian and has only been with three other women besides me. At 27 that's not many, and I think it's awesome. He and I are just wired for committment. My brother has been with countless women, and he believes in god! He's just not the committed type. Some aren't, some are. I don't think it has anything to do with god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freespirit Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I found myself waking up this morning thinking about cherry-picking. I mean, there ARE good things in Christianity. I guess my main question is about sex. I have been married almost 25 years to the same man. I find that to be a good thing. I think that is a result of Christianity. I would think non-Christians would be quite a bit looser (not if they're married maybe, but if they are single) concerning sex. I just don't think having a lot of partners before marriage is good. I also have a very negative view towards pornography. What say ye about non-Christians? I don't think it's the result of Christianity so much as that's how some people are wired. My boyfriend has never been a Christian and has only been with three other women besides me. At 27 that's not many, and I think it's awesome. He and I are just wired for committment. My brother has been with countless women, and he believes in god! He's just not the committed type. Some aren't, some are. I don't think it has anything to do with god. He's been with three others and that's not many? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I found myself waking up this morning thinking about cherry-picking. I mean, there ARE good things in Christianity. I guess my main question is about sex. I have been married almost 25 years to the same man. I find that to be a good thing. I think that is a result of Christianity. I would think non-Christians would be quite a bit looser (not if they're married maybe, but if they are single) concerning sex. I just don't think having a lot of partners before marriage is good. I also have a very negative view towards pornography. What say ye about non-Christians? I have been with the same man for just over 21 years and "living in sin" with him for almost 19 years, so I understand the value of commitment. I just don't see that christianity and the marriage ritual has any kind of leading edge in this regard. Especially since the Bible-Belt South tops the national averages in terms of divorce rate and out-of-wedlock conceptions. Well you may be right, but I was just reading a book written by a gynecologist telling about some of her experiences and it seems like she has had many, many partners. How does a person outside of Christianity and religion draw lines that are not harmful? There is nothing inherently wrong with having many partners. There is something wrong with deception. If the author was open and honest, what's the trouble here? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I found myself waking up this morning thinking about cherry-picking. I mean, there ARE good things in Christianity. I guess my main question is about sex. I have been married almost 25 years to the same man. I find that to be a good thing. I think that is a result of Christianity. I would think non-Christians would be quite a bit looser (not if they're married maybe, but if they are single) concerning sex. I just don't think having a lot of partners before marriage is good. I also have a very negative view towards pornography. What say ye about non-Christians? I don't think it's the result of Christianity so much as that's how some people are wired. My boyfriend has never been a Christian and has only been with three other women besides me. At 27 that's not many, and I think it's awesome. He and I are just wired for committment. My brother has been with countless women, and he believes in god! He's just not the committed type. Some aren't, some are. I don't think it has anything to do with god. He's been with three others and that's not many? I'm sensing a residual effect left over from your old belief system here. It's not a condemnation, but just something to think about. On what basis do you consider multiple relationships wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted February 9, 2011 Super Moderator Share Posted February 9, 2011 Good people are good people regardless of religious influence. There are many "moral" atheists and conversely many Christians (even the leaders) who are thieves, philanderers and child molesters. Understand what it is you believe to be good, and then go do it. Nobody needs to tell you what is right and what is wrong; parents, society and experience have taught you that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzy Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I found myself waking up this morning thinking about cherry-picking. I mean, there ARE good things in Christianity. I guess my main question is about sex. I have been married almost 25 years to the same man. I find that to be a good thing. I think that is a result of Christianity. I would think non-Christians would be quite a bit looser (not if they're married maybe, but if they are single) concerning sex. I just don't think having a lot of partners before marriage is good. I also have a very negative view towards pornography. What say ye about non-Christians? Why do you think so? Besides I know atheists (namely my grandparents) who have lived their whole life married to one another since they were teenagers (now they are in their 70s-80s), never cheating on one another. And I know Xtians who struggle with being faithful. I personally don't think sex out of wedlock is a bad thing. You might argue that "a lots of partners" is, but I just don't think if you are not a Xtian you will inevitably have a lots of partners. I think most people (regardless of religion) are looking for THE One and they are not aiming at having as many partners as they can. As for the topic title: what good did Xtianity teach me? Well, maybe charity. In my country charity is not as natural as in the US IMO. Maybe it's because during communism people got used to the fact that the state would help them every time and the state would never allow unemployment, homelessness etc. When the political system changed to capitalism, of course, it changed, but people's attitude didn't really. Now we have homeless and unemployed people, but I don't think the culture of giving is really highly developed here in people. They still expect the state to solve everything. So the importance of giving: this was taught by Xtianity to me, I guess. (Of course, I might have learnt it from Buddhism, Humanism etc. as well - if those come my way instead of Xtianity, who knows.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randi Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I found myself waking up this morning thinking about cherry-picking. I mean, there ARE good things in Christianity. I guess my main question is about sex. I have been married almost 25 years to the same man. I find that to be a good thing. I think that is a result of Christianity. I would think non-Christians would be quite a bit looser (not if they're married maybe, but if they are single) concerning sex. I just don't think having a lot of partners before marriage is good. I also have a very negative view towards pornography. What say ye about non-Christians? I don't think it's the result of Christianity so much as that's how some people are wired. My boyfriend has never been a Christian and has only been with three other women besides me. At 27 that's not many, and I think it's awesome. He and I are just wired for committment. My brother has been with countless women, and he believes in god! He's just not the committed type. Some aren't, some are. I don't think it has anything to do with god. He's been with three others and that's not many? I'm sensing some Christian-ey judgment here. It may be too many for people like you or me, but in regards to cultural norm... 4 total sexual partners isn't many at all. I look at it like this: Those past relationships make him better equipped to handle the things that will come up in ours. For him it was acceptable. For me, I waited for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freespirit Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I found myself waking up this morning thinking about cherry-picking. I mean, there ARE good things in Christianity. I guess my main question is about sex. I have been married almost 25 years to the same man. I find that to be a good thing. I think that is a result of Christianity. I would think non-Christians would be quite a bit looser (not if they're married maybe, but if they are single) concerning sex. I just don't think having a lot of partners before marriage is good. I also have a very negative view towards pornography. What say ye about non-Christians? I don't think it's the result of Christianity so much as that's how some people are wired. My boyfriend has never been a Christian and has only been with three other women besides me. At 27 that's not many, and I think it's awesome. He and I are just wired for committment. My brother has been with countless women, and he believes in god! He's just not the committed type. Some aren't, some are. I don't think it has anything to do with god. He's been with three others and that's not many? I'm sensing a residual effect left over from your old belief system here. It's not a condemnation, but just something to think about. On what basis do you consider multiple relationships wrong? I think families are much stronger where there isn't multiple relationships (before marriage or after). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freespirit Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I found myself waking up this morning thinking about cherry-picking. I mean, there ARE good things in Christianity. I guess my main question is about sex. I have been married almost 25 years to the same man. I find that to be a good thing. I think that is a result of Christianity. I would think non-Christians would be quite a bit looser (not if they're married maybe, but if they are single) concerning sex. I just don't think having a lot of partners before marriage is good. I also have a very negative view towards pornography. What say ye about non-Christians? I don't think it's the result of Christianity so much as that's how some people are wired. My boyfriend has never been a Christian and has only been with three other women besides me. At 27 that's not many, and I think it's awesome. He and I are just wired for committment. My brother has been with countless women, and he believes in god! He's just not the committed type. Some aren't, some are. I don't think it has anything to do with god. He's been with three others and that's not many? I'm sensing some Christian-ey judgment here. It may be too many for people like you or me, but in regards to cultural norm... 4 total sexual partners isn't many at all. I look at it like this: Those past relationships make him better equipped to handle the things that will come up in ours. For him it was acceptable. For me, I waited for him. I'm not judging you, just saying what I think. If you are good with it, then that's your life. For me, however, that would be very uncomfortable. So, I am just trying to get a feel for people's feelings here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thackerie Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I think families are much stronger where there isn't multiple relationships (before marriage or after). On what do you base that? I can understand how infidelity could wreck a family, but I don't think whatever relationships one had before marriage would affect the future family produced later in a committed relationship ... unless one or both of the spouses can't let go of the past and/or is extremely insecure. I guess what I'm saying with that run-on sentence is that I think mature people shouldn't have a problem with their partner's past (over and done with) relationships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I think wisdom is found in many places. Just because Christianity has some outrageously erroneous things in it does not imply that there is no wisdom to be found there, in my opinion. Aristotle was brilliant in my opinion to elucidate the four causes. But he also thought the function of the brain was to cool the blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randi Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I'm not judging you, just saying what I think. If you are good with it, then that's your life. For me, however, that would be very uncomfortable. So, I am just trying to get a feel for people's feelings here. Okay, I understand then. But I might point out that your discomfort with a partner's previous partners is insecurity. Insecurity is unhealthy and leads to the destruction of a relationship. I'm not gonna lie, I have been insecure about my boyfriend's previous relationships, wondering if they were better, etc. But what I've had to remember is that those relationships ended for various reasons, and all that matters is that we're together now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I think families are much stronger where there isn't multiple relationships (before marriage or after). Do you have evidence? Not trying to be antagonistic. What we think or feel doesn't necessarily measure up when examined more closely. It's been my experience that everyone is different. Just like some people are naturally gay, some are naturally polyamourous and some are naturally monogamous while even others aren't interested in sexual relationships at all. I tend to try and live and let live because I will never understand what is right or best for others not having walked in their shoes or felt what they feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivingLife Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 From a guys perspective, I think that my premarital relationships were a necessary process I had to go through. None of the previous girlfriends and I would have made it as a couple and the woman I eventually married, I told her of my "exploits", she even met a few of the old flames. I think b/c I was open and honest about it, she had the assurance that that part of my life was behind me. Post my marriage, there were opportunities but I never pursued them as I am too honest a person to be able to hide that if anything happened. We are going on for 26 years now with a courtship of 18 months before that where we lived together for a year. The idea that men are allowed to sow wild oats and then find a virgin is BS. Reality is that if I had so many partners, then those ladies are all probably married and some even grandmothers by now. The whole sex before marriage and with a number of partners IMO is healthy, better to get this out your system before going magnanimous. I also believe that divorces happen when kids marry too too soon, often because there is a baby already on the way or where the woo woo kids ess. just want a license to fuck w/o guilt leads to the high divorce rate. But then different strokes for different folks I guess. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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