"God" IS the author of confusion!

[Checkmate]

1 Now the whole earth had one language and one speech.

2 And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar, and they dwelt there.

3 Then they said to one another, "Come, let us make bricks and bake them thoroughly." They had brick for stone, and they had asphalt for mortar.

4 And they said, "Come, let us build ourselves a city, and a tower whose top is in the heavens; let us make a name for ourselves, lest we be scattered abroad over the face of the whole earth."

5 But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower which the sons of men had built.

6 And the Lord said, "Indeed the people are one and they all have one language, and this is what they begin to do; now nothing that they propose to do will be withheld from them.

7 "Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another's speech."

8 So the Lord scattered them abroad from there over the face of all the earth, and they ceased building the city.

9 Therefore its name is called Babel, because there the Lord confused the language of all the earth; and from there the Lord scattered them abroad over the face of all the earth.

Simple question Christ-stains: EXACTLY what CRIME was committed by the people of Babel? What did they do wrong to warrant "god" descending upon humanity and fucking with our plans?

 

They co-operated with one another, in seeming peace and harmony, to achieve greatness. Sounds like what we try to achieve everyday (without success).

 

WTF? What did MAN do wrong THIS time? There is NOTHING written HERE that indicates that people were "sinning". No fornication with goats, no homosexuality, no idol worship. Nothing. Just a huge tower.

 

Oh! I get it! Maybe they didn't have the proper zoning permits? What?! What the fuck, over? Why did "god" fuck with human language, and thus "curse" us with confusion, thus ushering in the age of warfare between races and peoples?

 

Why does your "loving god" despise man gaining knowledge and wisdom? What the fuck is "god" afraid of? Afraid we aren't going to be dependent on "him" any longer?

 

Oh, and before you dredge up some bullshit apologetic nonsense, don't bother. I want YOUR answer. Not some invented pablum your favorite teacher has brainwashed you with. Not some crap that some teacher has "exegeted" from between the lines, seeing shit that isn't there. Argue from THIS passage of scripture ALONE.

 

Why does "god" kick over man's sand castles like some steroid abusing beach bully?

 

Hmmm?

[Guest Guest_serenitynow_*]

WTF?  What did MAN do wrong THIS time?  There is NOTHING written HERE that indicates that people were "sinning".  No fornication with goats, no homosexuality, no idol worship.  Nothing.  Just a huge tower.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I love your witty ways, Grinch...

 

Well, since this seems to be about reaching "godS" **notice plurality either that or god has multiple personalities***... Lets assign a couple Christians and Excers to go to,where does this take place? Babylon? Anyway, go there and see if can see god and the others there and if we can reach them only with a plane or something...

 

ROFL...I'm picturing Mt. Olympus or something. Oh shit, here come those humans, what shall we do?! WTF is god worried about, they're just people? I cannot believe I didn't use to view that whole issue as mythology, how embarassing.

[Amethyst]

Apparently god is afraid of people learning how to speak his language, so they will discover his ultra top-secret plan (the one everyone talks about, but no one -- not even the Pope -- has heard or seen). And if they discover this top-secret plan, they might not like it! And they might turn against god. We can't have that, now can we?

 

[Checkmate]

I love your witty ways, Grinch...

.............

Appreciate that, o Serene one! Right back atcha!

[Mythra]

I know what it was. "God" was afraid that if the dudes were able to peek over the top of the firmament, they would see em there and find out that there was a whole bunch of gods, not just one.

 

It does say "let US go down" and mess em up.

 

oops. I see serenity, (or guest) already caught this.

 

WTF. Great minds think alike.

[All Gods Fail]

Again, just like in the creation fable, we have a clear allegory that xtians take as reality. Obviously, the whole Tower Of Babel story is an attempt to explain why we have different languages. Had the ancient Israelites practiced philology, we wouldn't have this story in the OT.

[Amethyst]

Isn't there some kind of blue cartoon guy that peeks over a brick wall?

 

Um...there's this:

 

 

but I'm pretty sure that's not what you're looking for.

[MQTA]

5 But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower which the sons of men had built.

6 And the Lord said, "Indeed the people are one and they all have one language, and this is what they begin to do; now nothing that they propose to do will be withheld from them.

7 "Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another's speech."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

 

 

Why did he Come Down to see the city? No omnipresence? Had to actually go there to see?

[MQTA]

1 Now the whole earth had one language and one speech.

2 And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar, and they dwelt there.

3 Then they said to one another, "Come, let us make bricks and bake them thoroughly." They had brick for stone, and they had asphalt for mortar.

4 And they said, "Come, let us build ourselves a city, and a tower whose top is in the heavens; let us make a name for ourselves, lest we be scattered abroad over the face of the whole earth."

5 But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower which the sons of men had built.

6 And the Lord said, "Indeed the people are one and they all have one language, and this is what they begin to do; now nothing that they propose to do will be withheld from them.

7 "Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another's speech."

8 So the Lord scattered them abroad from there over the face of all the earth, and they ceased building the city.

9 Therefore its name is called Babel, because there the Lord confused the language of all the earth; and from there the Lord scattered them abroad over the face of all the earth.

 

8 LOL. The people were scattered abroad from there over the face of all the earth, and they ceased building the city. Well, that woulda been some good trick if they kept building it and they weren't even there any more.

 

Simple question Christ-stains: EXACTLY what CRIME was committed by the people of Babel?  What did they do wrong to warrant "god" descending upon humanity and fucking with our plans?

 

They co-operated with one another, in seeming peace and harmony, to achieve greatness.  Sounds like what we try to achieve everyday (without success).

 

That's why I say we'll never see world peace, we're not meant to, and what IF we ever do? What will happen to humanity then? If this is what we got the first time, what will happen now? We'll be poofed away to different PLANETS?

 

 

WTF?  What did MAN do wrong THIS time?  There is NOTHING written HERE that indicates that people were "sinning".  No fornication with goats, no homosexuality, no idol worship.  Nothing.  Just a huge tower.

 

Oh!  I get it!  Maybe they didn't have the proper zoning permits?  What?!  What the fuck, over?  Why did "god" fuck with human language, and thus "curse" us with confusion, thus ushering in the age of warfare between races and peoples?

 

Why does your "loving god" despise man gaining knowledge and wisdom?  What the fuck is "god" afraid of?  Afraid we aren't going to be dependent on "him" any longer?

 

Isn't it amazing? When I was about 10 I challenged this one. I finally got someone to say it's a story that was probably made up to answer the question, to kids, of why we all speak different languages. The writers knew there were different languages, so they needed to make sure they covered it in their book as to why we have so many languages.

 

I never bought it.

 

Oh, and before you dredge up some bullshit apologetic nonsense, don't bother.  I want YOUR answer.  Not some invented pablum your favorite teacher has brainwashed you with.  Not some crap that some teacher has "exegeted" from between the lines, seeing shit that isn't there.  Argue from THIS passage of scripture ALONE.

 

Why does "god" kick over man's sand castles like some steroid abusing beach bully?

 

Hmmm?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't think I've seen apologetics. Goes more like this: "Jesus was in the OT, he was the US they refer to in Genesis." OH, OK, I see. So then he was the one who confounded all our languages and scattered us abroad all over. "Oh, no, Jesus is in the NT, we don't follow the OT". Oh, OK. So then the 10 commandments don't matter. "Oh no, we follow the 10 commandments".

 

They don't follow the OT, but they use the OT made up prophesies to justify the NT, they put satan in the garden when he was never there before 90AD, they use the Psalms and Proverbs, and a whole lot from it. But when you bring out the trash in the OT, then they don't use it.

[MQTA]

I know what it was.  "God" was afraid that if the dudes were able to peek over the top of the firmament, they would see em there and find out that there was a whole bunch of gods, not just one.

 

It does say "let US go down" and mess em up.

 

oops.  I see serenity, (or guest) already caught this.

 

WTF.  Great minds think alike.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They would have had to put clothes on. They were nude over them there clouds

[MQTA]

Um...there's this:

 

 

but I'm pretty sure that's not what you're looking for.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

[Guest Guest_serenitynow_*]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

YES!! That's it, although he isn't blue... Thanx :-)

[Amanda]

IMHO, it has been my interpretation of these scriptures that the fall of Babel was NOT to be with consequences of forming different languages as in Latin, Greek, Hebrew, German, French, or whatever. Clearly written in Chapter 10 that these people came to this place from their own country and their own native 'tongues' already.

 

Genesis

10:5 By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.

10:20 These are the sons of Ham, after their families, after their tongues, in their countries, and in their nations.

10:31 These are the sons of Shem, after their families, after their tongues, in their lands, after their nations.

 

There are universal languages, like the language of 'love'. This was NOT about the universal language of love. It was about a universal language of "I'm the best!" It is the same as saying Americans are best, or Baptist are best, etc. This idea had to be distroyed or they would not understand the mystery of God... we are ALL the same, we are one! IMHO, FWIW. Hence, the symbolism in this story...

 

1 Now the whole earth had one language and one speech.

2 And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar, and they dwelt there.

3 Then they said to one another, "Come, let us make bricks and bake them thoroughly." They had brick for stone, and they had asphalt for mortar.

THEY USED WHAT WAS MAN-MADE, BRICKS, INSTEAD OF WHAT WAS GOD-MADE, STONE, AND WHAT ONLY COVERS THINGS, ASPHALT, INSTEAD OF BINDS THINGS, MORTAR.

4 And they said, "Come, let us build ourselves a city, and a tower whose top is in the heavens; let us make a name for ourselves, lest we be scattered abroad over the face of the whole earth."

MAKE A NAME FOR THEMSELVES SO THAT THEY WILL BE CONSIDERED THE BEST!

5 But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower which the sons of men had built.

6 And the Lord said, "Indeed the people are one and they all have one language, and this is what they begin to do; now nothing that they propose to do will be withheld from them.

7 "Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another's speech."

NO ONE WILL UNDERSTAND SOMEONE WHEN THEY PROFESS THEY ARE THE BEST, IT WILL JUST BE CONSIDERED BABBLING .

8 So the Lord scattered them abroad from there over the face of all the earth, and they ceased building the city.

9 Therefore its name is called Babel, because there the Lord confused the language of all the earth; and from there the Lord scattered them abroad over the face of all the earth.

NO ONE/GROUP BECAME KNOWN AS THE BEST, AND IF ANYONE/GROUP CLAIMS THIS... THERE IS CLEARLY CONFUSION TO THE MASSES. SINCE NO ONE/GROUP COULD BE RECOGNIZED TO BE THE BEST, THEY JUST WENT AWAY TO OTHER PARTS OF THE EARTH.

[MQTA]

yeah, ok, if that's what you were taught.

 

thanks

[Cerise]

THEY USED WHAT WAS MAN-MADE, BRICKS, INSTEAD OF WHAT WAS GOD-MADE, STONE, AND WHAT ONLY COVERS THINGS, ASPHALT, INSTEAD OF BINDS THINGS, MORTAR.

 

First off, no need to shout. We can hear you plainly.

 

Secondly, I don't understand the concept of "man-made" coming from your over-all perspective of "God made/is everything". How can something stemming from a creation be entirely man-made? Why give the humans, humans that YOU made, bricks or the knowledge to make bricks if you're only going to get really pissed off when they use them? Makes no sense to me.

 

MAKE A NAME FOR THEMSELVES SO THAT THEY WILL BE CONSIDERED THE BEST!

 

How did you get that from, "let us make a name for ourselves, lest we be scattered abroad over the face of the whole earth" anyway? Establishing a community to keep people together (i.e. NOT scattered across the face of the earth) is now considered on par to "being the best"? The "lest" in that sentence connects the two ideas, you know. They wanted to make a name for themselves. Why? Because they didn't want to be seperated into groups scattered across the earth. No mention whatsoever of being the best here.

 

Where are you getting the idea that what the people were doing was arrogancy?

[MQTA]

weren't these the chosen people? the loved ones? should be happy and ecstatic they were getting along so well.

 

like they could have built a tower THAT big. let them. jerks. should have just laughed and laughed at what a silly creation he/they/us/we made.

 

ha ha ha silly humans, they think they can build a tower to the moon

[Amanda]

Hello Cerise!

First off, no need to shout.  We can hear you plainly. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry Cerise. I had first interjected my comments, capitalized, into the quoted scripture... then decided I wouldn't be quite that lazy and distinguish the scriptures from my input in a more acceptable fashion. Didn't mean to look like I was yelling..

Why give the humans, humans that YOU made, bricks or the knowledge to make bricks if you're only going to get really pissed off when they use them?  Makes no sense to me. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I suppose it depends for what we are going to use them. The message is that to make one better than another is missing the plan of what is considered sacred.

How did you get that from, "let us make a name for ourselves, lest we be scattered abroad over the face of the whole earth" anyway?  Establishing a community to keep people together (i.e. NOT scattered across the face of the earth) is now considered on par to "being the best"?  The "lest" in that sentence connects the two ideas, you know.  They wanted to make a name for themselves.  Why?  Because they didn't want to be seperated into groups scattered across the earth.  No mention whatsoever of being the best here.

 

Where are you getting the idea that what the people were doing was arrogancy?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because they wanted their name to reach into the heavens. They didn't want to be like all the others, they wanted their name to be held as Gods... high on their self made platform looking way down on everyone, as they thought God did. Otherwise they would be no better than anyone else, just scattered about the earth like all these others. IMHO.

[Isak The Newt]

Simple question Christ-stains: EXACTLY what CRIME was committed by the people of Babel? What did they do wrong to warrant "god" descending upon humanity and fucking with our plans?

 

 

cuase hes a prick...

 

cant make a baby cry by taking away candy it doesnt have..

[Amethyst]

Because they wanted their name to reach into the heavens. They didn't want to be like all the others, they wanted their name to be held as Gods... high on their self made platform looking way down on everyone, as they thought God did. Otherwise they would be no better than anyone else, just scattered about the earth like all these others. IMHO.

 

Prove that it actually happened. Prove it using archaeology and science, not just church propaganda.

[Isak The Newt]

Prove that it actually happened. Prove it using archaeology and science, not just church propaganda.

 

what he said!!

[Amanda]

Prove that it actually happened.  Prove it using archaeology and science, not just church propaganda.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hello Amethyst! Biblical archeology is rather new. I think they have determined that the Tower of Babel was a ziggurat, and it seems it can be located in Babylon.

See this site: http://www-lib.haifa.ac.il/www/art/babel.html

 

Even if this proves to be the Temple of Babel, how can one prove what happened there? Was it mystical? I think not. The science is not what is most important. It is the message that inspires us to be better people that is important, IMHO.

[Cerise]

Hello Cerise!

 

Sorry Cerise. I had first interjected my comments, capitalized, into the quoted scripture... then decided I wouldn't be quite that lazy and distinguish the scriptures from my input in a more acceptable fashion. Didn't mean to look like I was yelling..

 

I suppose it depends for what we are going to use them. The message is that to make one better than another is missing the plan of what is considered sacred.

 

Because they wanted their name to reach into the heavens. They didn't want to be like all the others, they wanted their name to be held as Gods... high on their self made platform looking way down on everyone, as they thought God did. Otherwise they would be no better than anyone else, just scattered about the earth like all these others. IMHO.

 

But if that's true, why does the reason God (or gods, he does say "Us") give sound different?

 

5 But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower which the sons of men had built.

6 And the Lord said, "Indeed the people are one and they all have one language, and this is what they begin to do; now nothing that they propose to do will be withheld from them.

7 "Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another's speech."

 

Now nothing that they propose to do will be withheld from them. That doesn't sound like God thought the people wanted to be better then other people, afterall, they wanted to be connected with other people, in unity. It sounds like God didn't want the equivalent of a peasant uprising. "uh oh, the humans are uniting and maybe they'll achieve so much they will see what a pathetic god I am and won't want to worship me anymore. Better opress the masses in a divid and conquer move before they figure it out."

 

He doesn't say "the people think they are dividing" he says "indeed the people are one and they all have one language."

 

If, as you said previously, God doesn't want division and wants us to be all won, why mess up the chance these people had at doing that very thing? Unless it was a power struggle God was avoiding, I don't see the connection.

[SkepticOfBible]

But if that's true, why does the reason God (or gods, he does say "Us") give sound different?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Most likely refering to himself and his angels.

[Amanda]

But if that's true, why does the reason God (or gods, he does say "Us") give sound different?

Now nothing that they propose to do will be withheld from them.  That doesn't sound like God thought the people wanted to be better then other people, afterall, they wanted to be connected with other people, in unity.  It sounds like God didn't want the equivalent of a peasant uprising.  "uh oh, the humans are uniting and maybe they'll achieve so much they will see what a pathetic god I am and won't want to worship me anymore.  Better opress the masses in a divid and conquer move before they figure it out."

 

He doesn't say "the people think they are dividing" he says "indeed the people are one and they all have one language."

 

If, as you said previously, God doesn't want division and wants us to be all won, why mess up the chance these people had at doing that very thing?  Unless it was a power struggle God was avoiding, I don't see the connection. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hi Cerise... it's just my opinion mostly due to these people are wanting their tower to reach into the heavens, to be like God and above all others, to make a name for themselves. I suppose it's up to anyone's own interpretation, and if yours sounds more likely to you or anyone else... what can I say? I find it just as hard to see your perspective as you do mine... not that either of us are right or wrong, just different, IMHO, FWIW.

[MQTA]

Hello Amethyst! Biblical archeology is rather new. I think they have determined that the Tower of Babel was a ziggurat, and it seems it can be located in Babylon.

See this site: http://www-lib.haifa.ac.il/www/art/babel.html

 

Even if this proves to be the Temple of Babel, how can one prove what happened there? Was it mystical? I think not. The science is not what is most important. It is the message that inspires us to be better people that is important, IMHO.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The message I got is that if humans ever all start to speak the same language, end the wars, join together with common goals (life, health, peace of mind), there will be HELL to pay!

 

We're not meant to have world peace, or get along. Our languages and beliefs were purposely screwed over to keep the chaos and confusion going.