What if?

[doomguarder]

Howdy midnight,

 

I can not give you good advise regarding your deconversion. I am a never was, but I can say this in regard to these statements:

 

Sorry!! I am a little heavy so my shame come from my size. I just thought about me running around with my fat ass and it hit my funny bone.

 

you should love every inch of yourself, if not you, who?

 

He is right you know. Midnight, I weigh 200# at 5'7". I have no problem running around naked, clothed, with makeup, without makeup, whatever. Fuck um. It is me and I refuse to be judged by their standards. I am healthy and I am happy, that’s what matters.

 

Love for yourself is the base of your reactions to the world. Never be embarrassed to be who you are, never. This applies to both your physical and mental attributes.

 

Your hubby loves you unconditionally (I am so happy for you, many do not have that), you need to love yourself in the same way. With that love you can look at yourself without the glasses that the media and society has glued to your face. Those glasses make you, and many others, look at themselves in an unfair light. We will never all be the model prefect women the media sells. Women, and men, strive for these impossible stereotypes and often succeed in destroying their self esteem and health.

 

You are beautiful, never let anyone, including yourself, convince you that you are not.

[TruthWarrior]

I found Christian Universalists, or those that believed in universal reconciliation (all end up in heaven) helped me get over the fear of hell and realize how twisted and hypocritical it is. The christian universalists seemed to deal quite well arguing against the many eternal hell believers, and seemed to come off as more "christian" plus they had a good sense of humor too. I liked Martin Zender's books and the many christian universalist writings on the web. Though I was tempted at times to become a universalist christian myself, I still figured most all the doctrines and beliefs of christians were unreasonable and false.

[Lizard]

Bravo, doomguarder! I must be one of the "other people" too..because I really don't give a shit.

 

Except for the fact that my BIL lives with us, I wouldn't have a problem running around le naturale..it would prolly give him a heart attack though.

 

I'm not saying I won't try to improve myself, I'm not a slob or anything..but I sure ain't no Twiggy..

 

As to the fears..yes, those are the hardest to overcome. However, for me, it was also the first to go. Its just not..logical.

 

I find myself immersing myself more in science..that blows the last of the cobwebs out of the fundified brain..

[Ouroboros]

Am I the only one who sits up at night wondering if I am wrong? What if what the christians say is true? What if I will end up in hell? What if..........

I did the first months after my deconversion, but it disappeared later.

 

Now I have the opinion that if there is a divine being that created everything, he won't base his judgments on humans from petty and exclusive religions. Like I tell my kids, if there is a God, we're all going to heaven, we're all going to the same place when we die. That's the only thing we can claim. Might it be just dirt in the ground or our "soul" ascending to a heavenly place, I'm certain we all end up together.

 

Life would be too precious for this "God" to be wasted in a basked of fire, pain and suffering for eternity. He spent all the time and energy to have a few followers (robots) that do his bidding (just like the angels) and never argue with him? And the rest of free thinking, free willed and open minded people that question and search for truth, have to be punished? Nah. I think the biggest travesty in the human history is the exclusivity of religions. "I'm right, and you're wrong." is the biggest "sin" in my mind.

 

I can tell myself over and over again that even if "he" does exist he is a liar and does not keep his word. But....... What if?

Then you follow your heart, that there could be a god, but not the Bible God. You can always keep an open mind to the possibility of a being that created the universe and gave life to the planet Earth. But you don't have to subscribe to an established religion that was written by sick and deranged people 2000 years ago. Just because you feel a need to believe, doesn't mean you have to believe someone elses ideas.

 

How did you all get from what if to I know?

It was a struggle in the beginning. Mostly because I felt I couldn't believe, but at the same time my whole life had been based on faith. My fear was rather, if my old faith was wrong, is there another faith that could be right? I made the decision that I would stay Agnostic, and not claim God existing or God non-existing. Just stayed in the middle to get things settled. I'm more of an Atheist today, and feel confident and happy with it. 30 years of indoctrination, doesn't go away overnight.

 

I am so very tired. I wish somethimes that there was a magical pill that would take these questions out of my head. I just want to stop wondering what if.

Keep the "what if", but also keep the "what if not". And keep on asking the questions.

 

Deb

[Mythra]

I have to admit, once in awhile I still get a little "what iffy" myself. I mean, I have assumed the bible was basically true for all of my adult life.

 

I still wonder what I'd do if I knew I only had five more minutes left to live.

 

That Pascal was a Rascal.

[Amethyst]

I still wonder what I'd do if I knew I only had five more minutes left to live.

 

I would eat a piece of chocolate and drink one last cup of espresso! Assuming I was able to, that is. Life is meant to be enjoyed.

[All Gods Fail]

Humans are built hard-wired to believe, to connect the dots, to find patterns. Which is how xtianity gets hold of you in the first place - it explains things in a way that makes internal sense. Logically, of course, it's all hogwash about talking snakes and people living for centuries, but emotionally it can be very convincing. Most of the world's major religions offer some kind of internal, emotional 'logic' as well.

 

What really has helped me 'un-brainwash' myself (and make no mistake - you HAVE been brainwashed by the meme), was studying a lot of the history of the bible. When you find out what a mish-mash of religions xtianity came from (the first Jesus cults, how it was tinkered with, how they decided what was canon and what was not, etc.), you'll have a much easier time of dealing with the hell issue.

 

Also what helped for me was studying science and critical thinking. The OT in particular ir ridiculous, and if it was the 'inspired word of god', then god didn't even understand there was a solar system outside his heavenly canopy. Once I realized how silly that book really was, it kind of knocked the legs out from under the NT.

 

So to sum up - the bible is the culmination of centuries of tinkering with an attempt to understand reality. It's based on flawed reasoning from people who ddn't understand the world around them There's a reason why believers are not encouraged to think too carefully about it - it doesn't really explain anything, nor does it make any sense. But it feels true, and that's how they getcha!

[Vigile]

I still wonder what I'd do if I knew I only had five more minutes left to live.

 

That Pascal was a Rascal.

 

FWIW I no longer wonder what I would do in that situation. It took time, years in fact...

[Vigile]

Humans are built hard-wired to believe, to connect the dots, to find patterns. It is a battle, Christianity, to say and do what is holy.

 

Been reading Gilovich?

 

Good post.

[-Demona-]

Love for yourself is the base of your reactions to the world. Never be embarrassed to be who you are, never. This applies to both your physical and mental attributes.

 

You need to love yourself in the same way. With that love you can look at yourself without the glasses that the media and society has glued to your face. Those glasses make you, and many others, look at themselves in an unfair light. We will never all be the model prefect women the media sells. Women, and men, strive for these impossible stereotypes and often succeed in destroying their self esteem and health.

 

You are beautiful, never let anyone, including yourself, convince you that you are not.

Doomguarder,

 

I know the above comment was intended for Midnight, but I needed to hear it too. Thank you. After taking an emotional beating from a shallow asshat I wanted a relationship with, but he just wanted get laid by some model type that I can never be (and he was really no looker himself). And he professed to be a godly type. Christian brotherly love, my ass!

 

I needed some positive reinforcement that, hey, I'm not all that bad looking after all. And reading what you told Midnight brought a smile to my face and a bit of hope to my heart.

 

Sincerely,

Someone who is 5'2" and a whole lot of woman.

[MQTA]

and what exit in NJ are you? I'm off 10 or 11 on the pike, on the other side of the OBC

[Antlerman]

I would eat a piece of chocolate and drink one last cup of espresso!  Assuming I was able to, that is.  Life is meant to be enjoyed.

Amen to that! Maybe that's the trick for dealing with the fear issue. When it comes up, go do something that's self-indulgent and celebrate being alive!

[Amethyst]

I know the above comment was intended for Midnight, but I needed to hear it too. Thank you.

 

Same here. I've spent too much of my life feeling like I was being judged because I wasn't pretty enough to make people happy (like my mother). I'm trying to heal, and I've regained some of the self-esteem I lost, but healing takes time.

[Dianka]

Love for yourself is the base of your reactions to the world. Never be embarrassed to be who you are, never. This applies to both your physical and mental attributes.

 

You need to love yourself in the same way. With that love you can look at yourself without the glasses that the media and society has glued to your face. Those glasses make you, and many others, look at themselves in an unfair light. We will never all be the model prefect women the media sells. Women, and men, strive for these impossible stereotypes and often succeed in destroying their self esteem and health.

 

You are beautiful, never let anyone, including yourself, convince you that you are not.

 

Thank you. You are right. I have to be so friggin nice because some find my height threatening (5'11"). If I assert myself in anyway, people call me a dyke or amazon. I take it with a laugh, but it makes my stomach turn when people even say nice things because I think it's going to be followed with a "but."

[Kuroikaze]

Since I walked away from christianity I've had doubts plenty of times. On the other hand, when I was a christian I would also wonder if I might be wrong, which is probably how I got here in the first place.

 

Its normal for a person to have doubts no matter what they believe.

[ExRC]

Am I the only one who sits up at night wondering if I am wrong? What if what the christians say is true? What if I will end up in hell? What if..........

 

I can tell myself over and over again that even if "he" does exist he is a liar and does not keep his word. But....... What if?

 

How did you all get from what if to I know?

 

I am so very tired. I wish somethimes that there was a magical pill that would take these questions out of my head. I just want to stop wondering what if.

 

Deb

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Absolutely! Actually, I don't really worry about it, but it's in the back of my mind from time to time. As others have said, it's due to the brainwashing from childhood.

 

This site actually brings me much comfort. There are people here who have so much knowledge of the history of all religion that it confirms my belief that Christianity is a crock. Take some time and try to read through the threads here.

 

Good luck to you.

[Jaded]

I still wonder too. Doesn't really keep me up at night anymore, but it is in the back of my mind.

 

Every once in a while I dig out my bible and just start to read. Sure, it has it's good points...but it does have allot of inconsistencies. Maybe not enough to rule it out completely but there is still a lack of proof.

 

Sure, the church tells you that you don't need proof, you need faith. The bible promised great acts, healings, and that if you seek, you will find. I guess I am still looking, but I am no longer really expecting to find the answer.

[-Demona-]

and what exit in NJ are you?  I'm off 10 or 11 on the pike, on the other side of the OBC 

I'm 'round exit 98. Bit of a haul, there.

[All Gods Fail]

Since I walked away from christianity I've had doubts plenty of times.  On the other hand, when I was a christian I would also wonder if I might be wrong, which is probably how I got here in the first place. 

 

Its normal for a person to have doubts no matter what they believe.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That is so true, Kuroikaze. It doesn't really matter what you believe, no one's 100% certain all the time of everything. Hell, I don't know what happens when you die - maybe nothing, maybe reincarnation, maybe something no one's ever even thought of yet.

 

But one thing I do know - the bible isn't right about it. It's a bunch of fairy tales mixed with (some) actual history. And as we all know, the best lies have some truth in them.

[Gnosis of Disbelief]

I have finally gotten the "monsters" under my bed out of my system. See, growing up we always had "demons" in the house. For years I wasn't able to sleep because I would have sworn that "demons" were in the house. The first time was when I was 12 and my mother woke me up just to tell me that Satan himself was in the house and he was after me to kill me. She did this and then went to bed herself. I swear it is true (the story happened, not that satan was in the house).

 

I still have my moments maybe 4 times a year when I have this problem.

 

This is not something that I choose, it something that has been told to me for my entire life. Just like the thoughts that "everything that has happened to me has happened because god has a "big" plan for my life and satan is trying to stop it.

 

Unlogical I know, but there it is.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

 

I know this sort of thing happens a lot in fundy households, but I still go

Yikes! every time I hear about it. It's a shame that any child has

to go through such an ordeal. And, it's the sort of thing that takes a long

time to overcome.

 

When I deconverted, I didn't have the fear-of-going-to-hell thing as much

as a lot of rage at a gawd I perceived more and more to be unjust, cruel,

and sadistic. That lasted for literally years; even as I became more and

more of an atheist, it was (and sometimes still is) an emotion that is hard

for me to let go. Reading the history of christianity has really helped a lot,

though. When you realize that the whole belief system is just a septic tank

containing the dead remains of other religions, and the gawd that you

believed in is just an obsolete way of describing the universe, it gets easier

to let go of the emotions.

 

Besides, if the biblegawd really existed, do you really think he'd keep

his word about anything? It could be that when all those christians

gather together at the pearly gates, they discover that heaven is just

another oven, only this one burning at a higher temperature than hell.

The biblegawd, if he existed, would certainly be psychotic enough to pull

off such a stunt. Maybe the biblegawd likes the smell of toasted christians

even better than he likes the smell of toasted goats.

[wpfan]

I know what you mean, I'm sorry to say it took me more than ten years to finally lose that fear. I know what did it for me, although I don't know why it worked. One day I realized that the church (pretty much any one, but it was the catholic one that triggered this) isn't interested in truth, but in control (power). For some reason this realization quite suddenly freed me from the fear that maybe, just maybe, Christians were right.

[godlessgrrl]

Whoa. I'd class that "satan in the house" shit as bigtime, mindfucking psychological abuse there.

 

Abuse is abuse, nothing more. It isn't true. One thing I've found in my own life is that every time someone has said something abusively to me, they're lying. Period. Their goal is control, or to put me down, or maybe they're just crazy. In any case they're not telling me the truth, so I can grant myself permission to dismiss what they have to say. (You have permission too, even though you really don't need it from me.)

 

Abuse and brainwashing take a long time to get over. What helps me is to challenge what I've learned, stubbornly, over and over and over and over, every time. Like when some learned "should" or whatever pops up in my head - and sometimes they do - I give it the finger.

 

Another thing that helps is to actually answer the "what if?" question. What if the Christians really are right? What if my loved ones are in hell for not saying some magic words? What happens then? What do you think really would happen, if it's all true?

 

If it *is* all true, this is a pretty fucked up universe, because my father's parents would be in hell, and they were the most amazingly loving, caring people I ever knew. And if it is all true, I'd rather be with them anyway - I'd take hell with my loved ones over eternity with a sadistic sky daddy into filling heaven with people who'll spend eternity stroking his ego. Fuck that shit, grandma.

 

Anyway. Keep at it, and give it time. It just takes awhile.

[bob]

Am I the only one who sits up at night wondering if I am wrong? What if what the christians say is true? What if I will end up in hell? What if..........

Well, no, you are not alone.

How did you all get from what if to I know?

Die...?

I am so very tired. I wish sometimes that there was a magical pill that would take these questions out of my head. I just want to stop wondering what if.

No Deb, NO! "Wondering" is what makes life so magical. I cherish those times when my mind ponders the possibilities.

Deb, when I first deconverted, five years ago, I had a slight twinge, a slight fear that I may be wrong, and "He" might actually exist. But as I pondered the possibilities, I came to this comfortable conclusion of; so what. If there is a god of sorts, I look forward to meeting...it. And if this god happens to be the God of the bible, and the bible accurately describes his personality, I will shake the dust off of my sandals and dive head-first into hell. The god of the bible is no god I could ever lower myself to worship again.

 

"If there is a God who will damn his children forever, I would rather go to hell than to go to heaven and keep the society of such an infamous tyrant. I make my choice now."

Robert G. Ingersoll

[MQTA]

I'm 'round exit 98. Bit of a haul, there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OH, GSP? Um, I'd be what, 130? Still fairly close... hi Neighbor

[MQTA]

I know what you mean, I'm sorry to say it took me more than ten years to finally lose that fear. I know what did it for me, although I don't know why it worked. One day I realized that the church (pretty much any one, but it was the catholic one that triggered this) isn't interested in truth, but in control (power). For some reason this realization quite suddenly freed me from the fear that maybe, just maybe, Christians were right.

98681[/snapback]

 

I guess I put it on hold. I read The Satanic Bible in 1989, found Wayne Dyer's books in 1993 and haven't touched a Bible probably since the late 70s or 80s. I picked a good time to get back to it, March '04, and when I wanted to understand the NT better, people told me who to look up.

 

And so I Googled whatever they told me. The names they told me to look up I only found sites selling their books and playing up how great they were. But the other sites, the debunking sites, skeptic sites, historical research sites, all gave me the answers I was looking for. Much to the dismay of the people pointing me towards the likes of McDowell and Hovind.

 

The Good Christians trying to help point me in the right direction didn't know what I'd discover through Google. Thank Al Gore for Google! He created the information super highway, right? LOL