What Is Your New Spirituality?

[oddbird1963]

. . . And I am not the only one, am I guys

No, G. You are not.

 

The wrong in the world weighs me down like a ton of bricks. A good day is when I can forget it or when I can do a little something that I believe will make someone's world a little better for at least the moment. And that is only when I can make myself forget the hurt, the injustice, the dehumanization of people and the evaporation of hope that boils all around us like the atmosphere boiling over a hot asphalt road in the middle of a Texas August.

 

I am pretty sure much of this is a projection of the turmoil in my life onto the world around me. I don't know though. If I become more content and happy does that mean that people will suddenly be treated more humanely? Will justice begin to flow like a raging river? Will people be able to hold on to hope? No.

 

I guess what I seek that may be called a new spirituality is the ability not to sting inside yet still position myself internally to be able to both recognize and adapt to all that is wrong and appreciate the good and the right as I encounter it - like discovering a wild flower growing out of the rocks of a hill I am struggling to climb.

[Deva]

Oddbird, thank you for that post. Really. The wrong in the world, and life in general, weighs on me like a ton of bricks too. This has been since I was about 12.

 

I am always trying to find a way to rise above it and find some peace. It has always been temporary, then the circumstances that come up inevitably weigh me back down. No one can accuse me of not trying though.

 

I am stuck with a shy and sensitive personality. I also have a lot of trust issues with people. I can't fix this overnight, if at all. Being middle aged makes me think I may not ever be able to fix it. Therefore, the world (at least the social world) and me are at odds. I understand intellectually the nonduality but I can't realize it. So much the worse.

[oddbird1963]

Oddbird, thank you for that post. Really. The wrong in the world, and life in general, weighs on me like a ton of bricks too. This has been since I was about 12.

 

I am always trying to find a way to rise above it and find some peace. It has always been temporary, then the circumstances that come up inevitably weigh me back down. No one can accuse me of not trying though.

 

I am stuck with a shy and sensitive personality. I also have a lot of trust issues with people. I can't fix this overnight, if at all. Being middle aged makes me think I may not ever be able to fix it. Therefore, the world (at least the social world) and me are at odds. I understand intellectually the nonduality but I can't realize it. So much the worse.

 

It seems like we are cut from similar cloth, Deva. I appreciate you and your insights all over these forums!

[Deva]

I feel the same way, Oddbird.

[Galien]

I have found this to be a help to me in understanding why I am quite so concerned with the world that "ought" to be instead of the world that "is". Not a new spirituality, but a new understanding of the world that I see as opposed to the one most people do.

 

http://positivedisintegration.com/

[Deva]

I have found this to be a help to me in understanding why I am quite so concerned with the world that "ought" to be instead of the world that "is". Not a new spirituality, but a new understanding of the world that I see as opposed to the one most people do.

 

http://positivedisintegration.com/

 

Thank you Galien, I never heard of this before. I have only read a little so far, and am intrigued.

[oddbird1963]

I have found this to be a help to me in understanding why I am quite so concerned with the world that "ought" to be instead of the world that "is". Not a new spirituality, but a new understanding of the world that I see as opposed to the one most people do.

 

http://positivedisintegration.com/

Bookmarked for a time when I have the time and clarity to read it.

[Outlaw393]

After the amazing outpour of posts due to my last post, I wanted to ask you guys a question. What is your new religion or spiritual path after you left Christianity? After the oil spill I remember that a lot of Pagans here got together to summon their deities to summon global healing. I know there are a lot of agnostics and atheists here too. I want to hear from people about any organized or unorganized faiths they practice.

 

So...what do you believe or practice?

 

I recently returned to Wicca after I left my church. I can follow the gods I want, I can worship when and how I want, and I can be who I am without fear of judgment.

 

[MultifariousBirdLady]

I recently returned to Wicca after I left my church. I can follow the gods I want, I can worship when and how I want, and I can be who I am without fear of judgment.

 

What church were you in?

Are you involved with a particular form of Wicca?

Do you have your deconversion "testimony" on this site somewhere?

 

If you're interested in chatting about Wicca or related topics, I'm game.

[Outlaw393]

What church were you in?

Are you involved with a particular form of Wicca?

Do you have your deconversion "testimony" on this site somewhere?

 

If you're interested in chatting about Wicca or related topics, I'm game.

 

I was involved with a Pentecostal UPCI church - very fundamentalist, conservative christians. They have a site if you're interested: UPCI - United Pentecostal Church International

 

They are anti-gay, and I'm bisexual. Hence why I say I'm not free to be who I am there.

 

I am an eclectic Wiccan.

 

Don't think I ever typed up any "testimony", but then again I've been here about 5 years so I don't remember.

[Antlerman]

I was involved with a Pentecostal UPCI church - very fundamentalist, conservative christians. They have a site if you're interested: UPCI - United Pentecostal Church International

Well hey there! Nice to meet a fellow Ex-UPCIer! I can think of only one other on the site, and haven't seen her in a while. Yes, I was in the UPC.

 

Ahh... for the days of bun heads... women can't cut their hair, wear slacks, jewelry, make up, etc. No TV's, no movies, no secular music, no thinking for yourself, etc.

 

So what's your story with them? How did you get involved? I'd love to hear your story!

[Outlaw393]

Well hey there! Nice to meet a fellow Ex-UPCIer! I can think of only one other on the site, and haven't seen her in a while. Yes, I was in the UPC.

 

Ahh... for the days of bun heads... women can't cut their hair, wear slacks, jewelry, make up, etc. No TV's, no movies, no secular music, no thinking for yourself, etc.

 

So what's your story with them? How did you get involved? I'd love to hear your story!

 

It's a long, long story that I don't want to get into. At my church, women could cut their hair but were strongly encouraged to grow it out. (In a matter of fact after I joined, the youth pastor gave a sermon during Bible Study night that involved long hair and the holiness doctrines. I think to this day it was aimed at me, which at the time I didn't appreciate) I was involved for 3 years and I had short hair all those years. They let me wear pants and jewelry too. The holiness doctrines barely affected me. I just felt after quite a while that I just couldn't fit in.

 

Lately they have been encouraging me to return, though I highly doubt I ever will. I would go back if I was still Christian, which I obviously am one no longer.

 

Becoming Pagan I have found a greater freedom than I ever had as a Christian. To go back would mean losing at least some of that.

 

The thing I like the most, I think, is being able to worship who and what I want, how I want, when I want, without anyone saying "you're gonna go to hell!". I can be my very bisexual (though I'm starting to think closer to pansexual) self, and I can have a homosexual relationship without anyone going "you're in sin! You're going to go to hell!"

 

One of the things that made me go "Wow." while I was in the church was one night the pastor started talking about Aliens and UFOs, and the congregation would laugh, like it was comical. I believe in UFOs and Aliens and I take my beliefs very seriously. In a matter of fact, I have many New Age beliefs about this stuff, which again, is a long, long story.

[MultifariousBirdLady]

I was involved with a Pentecostal UPCI church - very fundamentalist, conservative christians. They have a site if you're interested: UPCI - United Pentecostal Church International

 

They are anti-gay, and I'm bisexual. Hence why I say I'm not free to be who I am there.

 

I am an eclectic Wiccan.

 

Don't think I ever typed up any "testimony", but then again I've been here about 5 years so I don't remember.

 

I'm familiar with Pentecostals in general and have heard some things about the UPCI but am not sure how the UPCI differs from other Pentecostal groups. Most Pentecostal groups that I have come into contact with are anti-gay.

 

When I first became Pagan I was also an eclectic Wiccan. Now its probably most accurate to say that I'm a Hellenic Pagan and Chaote, but the group activities I participate in here are primarily based in Wicca.

 

It would be cool if you wrote a testimony (if you haven't already).

[Antlerman]

I'm familiar with Pentecostals in general and have heard some things about the UPCI but am not sure how the UPCI differs from other Pentecostal groups. Most Pentecostal groups that I have come into contact with are anti-gay.

I can tell you what those differences are. The primary difference and how both they and the Assemblies of God split into their own denominations was over a theological argument over the doctrine of the Trinity, and the proper mode of baptism. Prior to 1914 they were all part of the Pentecostal movement which started in 1901 coming out of the Holiness movement. Some were seeing that they should baptize in Jesus' name, speaking the word "Jesus" over the convert in some sort of magic invocation, instead of saying 'Father, Son, and Holy Ghost". They would cite such verses as "There is no other name under heaven by which we shall be saved', and any other such thing that loosely resembled what they saw to believe.

 

The biggie though was the Godhead. They rejected the Triune deity citing the strict monotheism of the Jews and the lack of support for a 3-person God in the NT. In all honesty, it was that view of God that resonated to me in my youth because of a couple, life-changing transcendental peak experiences a couple years prior to my encounter with them. My experience was of absolute oneness of the divine, and so the doctrine of the Trinity was puzzling to say the least. However, the Oneness Pentecostal's highly anthropomorphic theologies about God was equally baffling to me in the face of my experience, yet I went with their teachings because I was seeking knowledge and had found no other place to speak to me about God in any way that began to resemble my experiences. At least they had the Oneness part right, so it seemed.

[Antlerman]

Lately they have been encouraging me to return, though I highly doubt I ever will. I would go back if I was still Christian, which I obviously am one no longer.

You would go back to them if you were still a Christian? I actually left them prior to leaving Christianity itself. Their whole self-righteousness, ignorance, intellectual dishonesty, and lack of genuine compassion was a spiritual disease to me. As you mentioned the pastor singling you out on their Holiness standards for women, that spoke of exactly the same thing to me. Their religion is their god.

 

It was like they all were one big family because they were the people of the Flag. They extolled how special they were because they had the Truth™, running everyone else down who fell short of the Truth they were so blessed to know. Hardly one of them had any sort of genuine humility, and their entire unity was based on a common group belief. It didn't come from inside them. They were 'saved' by being right doctrinally. Even though they were people like you and me trying to find their way in life, their religion was a distraction and a hindrance to them actually experiencing that freedom. They clung to the life-raft rather than learning to swim.

 

The freedom you describe is expressed to you through making choices for yourself, rather than other force-fitting you into their group mold. They need you to fit their mold because that's where they seek their security. It's sad for them really, as frankly it doesn't matter how you wish to envision God, but what is important is freedom of spirit to reach.

[Noggy]

I'm familiar with Pentecostals in general and have heard some things about the UPCI but am not sure how the UPCI differs from other Pentecostal groups. Most Pentecostal groups that I have come into contact with are anti-gay.

I can tell you what those differences are. The primary difference and how both they and the Assemblies of God split into their own denominations was over a theological argument over the doctrine of the Trinity, and the proper mode of baptism. Prior to 1914 they were all part of the Pentecostal movement which started in 1901 coming out of the Holiness movement. Some were seeing that they should baptize in Jesus' name, speaking the word "Jesus" over the convert in some sort of magic invocation, instead of saying 'Father, Son, and Holy Ghost". They would cite such verses as "There is no other name under heaven by which we shall be saved', and any other such thing that loosely resembled what they saw to believe.

 

The biggie though was the Godhead. They rejected the Triune deity citing the strict monotheism of the Jews and the lack of support for a 3-person God in the NT. In all honesty, it was that view of God that resonated to me in my youth because of a couple, life-changing transcendental peak experiences a couple years prior to my encounter with them. My experience was of absolute oneness of the divine, and so the doctrine of the Trinity was puzzling to say the least. However, the Oneness Pentecostal's highly anthropomorphic theologies about God was equally baffling to me in the face of my experience, yet I went with their teachings because I was seeking knowledge and had found no other place to speak to me about God in any way that began to resemble my experiences. At least they had the Oneness part right, so it seemed.

 

My very last church service in my AoG church, the preacher was delivering the message on why the trinity was real. His basic idea was: For God, 1 + 1 + 1 = 1. Isn't that weird? God works in mysterious ways.

 

People actually believe that.

 

Holy shit.

[Outlaw393]

My very last church service in my AoG church, the preacher was delivering the message on why the trinity was real. His basic idea was: For God, 1 + 1 + 1 = 1. Isn't that weird? God works in mysterious ways.

 

People actually believe that.

 

Holy shit.

 

LOL I guess "god" must really suck at math then, or failed to ever get educated in it. I never understood the Trinity either, growing up in a Lutheran church. I never could understand how you could have the father, son, and holy ghost and yet that means one god? I counted three things, but yet the pastor when he did a sermon about it emphasized it was ONE god. Not three. I shrugged and ignored my problems with that belief for years. Then I found the Pentecostals who didn't believe in it and problem solved! Except when I got involved with them, I had no idea about their holiness doctrines. It's like, I got involved, got baptized, and then heard about it. I was like, it's a bit too late now. Sigh.

 

The youth pastor didn't mention me during his sermon. But the feeling of being singled out was the feeling I got. My church was careful to never single anyone out. The church was a friendly, compassionate place. For the first couple years though every once in a while I'd have someone ask me "did you ever receive the holy ghost?". I told them, yes, I did. It was part of what got me looking into becoming pentecostal. However, I had the feeling after a while that no one believed me. I had issues speaking tongues in church, it was very awkward, and I hated being the center of attention if I did. Everyone would teleport to my location and start praying over me - which I HATED. I just have some sort of aversion to a crowd forming around me, so close I can't move, and laying hands on me, and all these different voices praying - out loud.

 

That's another thing I didn't understand. Pentecostals always said it was better to pray out loud. Why? Can't God hear my thoughts? Surely if he's omnipotent like you claim. I always thought the praying out loud thing was some pomp and circumstance.

 

Right now, I am quite the contrast to what and where I was in the church. I follow the gods I want to follow, when I want to, how I want to. I even designed (it's not complete yet) my own Wiccan tradition. But that was a long time ago...I was even still part Wiccan when I was baptized into the church. All those years I don't think I ever really gave up faith in my pagan gods.

 

I follow the Hellenic, Kemetic, and Norse pantheons. I don't follow ALL those gods ALL the time. I simply honor those who call me to do so. Right now I feel drawn to the Hellenic and Norse pantheons. So those are who I deal with during ritual or prayers.

 

So long story short, I started out Wiccan, investigated many other paganisms and other religions, became pentecostal, and then left and went back to Wicca.

 

[MultifariousBirdLady]

I can tell you what those differences are.

 

Antlerman, thanks for this! It was very informative.

 

Some were seeing that they should baptize in Jesus' name, speaking the word "Jesus" over the convert in some sort of magic invocation, instead of saying 'Father, Son, and Holy Ghost". They would cite such verses as "There is no other name under heaven by which we shall be saved', and any other such thing that loosely resembled what they saw to believe.

Is this similar to, or one of, the "Jesus only" groups that I've heard about?

 

My very last church service in my AoG church, the preacher was delivering the message on why the trinity was real. His basic idea was: For God, 1 + 1 + 1 = 1. Isn't that weird? God works in mysterious ways.

 

People actually believe that.

 

Holy shit.

I know it's kind-of weird, but I've never had a problem with that idea, because we're talking about a being that is to a large extent beyond human comprehension in the first place.

 

I also heard what I thought (at the time) were some fairly illustrative explanations... such as that the trinity is like an egg: there is a shell and a white and a yolk, but they are all "egg."

 

Something like this carries over into my Pagan views now... the complete fullness of "the Divine" is way beyond our understanding, but that Divine can and sometimes does express itself to people through somewhat more accessible and discrete Divine figures. Whether "the Divine" is a complete and utter unity or a harmonious (or perhaps even not-so-harmonious?) kaleidoscope of interaction may each seem "true" depending the filters through which one interprets one's experience of "it" or "them."

 

Just an idea, anyway.

 

That's another thing I didn't understand. Pentecostals always said it was better to pray out loud. Why? Can't God hear my thoughts? Surely if he's omnipotent like you claim. I always thought the praying out loud thing was some pomp and circumstance.

Perhaps they thought it fostered a kind of boldness to do something like that out loud. A more cynical view might be that it could separate out who was behaving in line with church teaching (and how enthusiastic they were) or not. It may also have had the effect of inducing trance, which might make it seem to practitioners that it was more effective than praying silently.

[Tandava]

Namaste,

I am now a Hindu, following a Saivite school - one that sees Shiva as the ultimate form of God. After realising that I could no longer be a Christian I initially went through a period of agnosticism. After a while I began to realise that I did believe in God, a spiritual power inside. One day I brought a statue of Shiva from a second-hand shop in impulse. It was the nataraja, Shiva in the dance of creation and destruction. As I looked at it I saw how this was a true representation of God. I had an overwhelming feeling of the spiritual energy in me and behind every atom in the Universe. At that moment I was connected with all.

 

So, on seeing Shiva as the ultimate God .... I became a Unitarian! My head tried to justify my experience and belief. I knew that God could not be confined to one faith that my small view was one of many. I felt that Unitarianism would be a means of holding this universal spirituality. Perhaps I was unlucky with the group I attended, but it turned out to be a sort of "lowest common denominator" spirituality. People wouldn't mention God for fear of offending the Humanists. The Humanists wouldn't talk about why they saw so much in the human spirit that they wanted to celebrate it, for fear of offending the theists.

 

At that time I read some books by the Himalayan Academy, particularly How to become a (better) Hindu. I relised that Hinduism was my path, and I went to the local Hindu temple. Here I saw a greater diversity and respect for other beliefs than I had ever seen in the Unitarians. A Saivite can stand in front of Shiva and say "Aum Namah Shivaya" (Respect to the great Shiva) at the same time as a follower of Rama can say "Jai Shri Ram" (Great Lord Rama). An Advaita follower may meditate on the mysterious formless Brahma. All can show full passion for their own beliefs and respect others. We share eachothers festivals, but are aware that it is sharing someone else's Holy day rather than celebrating our own. I have continued to study Hinduism with the Himalayan academy and found its depth of philosophy, teachings and practices amazing. Above all I know that this is my path, not everyone's and all should be respected.

 

I think the one thing that I can say that will apply to most people is that there will come a time when you no longer define yourself as an ex-Christian. It will be as irrelevant as saying that you are are an ex school pupil is to most of you now. You will be a Buddhist, a Humanist who celebrates the spirit of Humanity, a Hindu, an atheist or even an agnostic, still seeking but detached from your past.

Aum

[Noggy]

Namaste,

I am now a Hindu, following a Saivite school - one that sees Shiva as the ultimate form of God. After realising that I could no longer be a Christian I initially went through a period of agnosticism. After a while I began to realise that I did believe in God, a spiritual power inside. One day I brought a statue of Shiva from a second-hand shop in impulse. It was the nataraja, Shiva in the dance of creation and destruction. As I looked at it I saw how this was a true representation of God. I had an overwhelming feeling of the spiritual energy in me and behind every atom in the Universe. At that moment I was connected with all.

 

So, on seeing Shiva as the ultimate God .... I became a Unitarian! My head tried to justify my experience and belief. I knew that God could not be confined to one faith that my small view was one of many. I felt that Unitarianism would be a means of holding this universal spirituality. Perhaps I was unlucky with the group I attended, but it turned out to be a sort of "lowest common denominator" spirituality. People wouldn't mention God for fear of offending the Humanists. The Humanists wouldn't talk about why they saw so much in the human spirit that they wanted to celebrate it, for fear of offending the theists.

 

At that time I read some books by the Himalayan Academy, particularly How to become a (better) Hindu. I relised that Hinduism was my path, and I went to the local Hindu temple. Here I saw a greater diversity and respect for other beliefs than I had ever seen in the Unitarians. A Saivite can stand in front of Shiva and say "Aum Namah Shivaya" (Respect to the great Shiva) at the same time as a follower of Rama can say "Jai Shri Ram" (Great Lord Rama). An Advaita follower may meditate on the mysterious formless Brahma. All can show full passion for their own beliefs and respect others. We share eachothers festivals, but are aware that it is sharing someone else's Holy day rather than celebrating our own. I have continued to study Hinduism with the Himalayan academy and found its depth of philosophy, teachings and practices amazing. Above all I know that this is my path, not everyone's and all should be respected.

 

I think the one thing that I can say that will apply to most people is that there will come a time when you no longer define yourself as an ex-Christian. It will be as irrelevant as saying that you are are an ex school pupil is to most of you now. You will be a Buddhist, a Humanist who celebrates the spirit of Humanity, a Hindu, an atheist or even an agnostic, still seeking but detached from your past.

Aum

 

I'm reading the Bhagavad Gita right now. It's interesting shit. It was my impression that the dedication of ones life to a god was just one of the many yogas you can do in hinduism. It's interesting that 99% of Hindus practice that kind. I bet the tolerance comes from the fact that all the Gods are the same.

[Tandava]

 

 

I'm reading the Bhagavad Gita right now. It's interesting shit. It was my impression that the dedication of ones life to a god was just one of the many yogas you can do in hinduism. It's interesting that 99% of Hindus practice that kind. I bet the tolerance comes from the fact that all the Gods are the same.

 

Yes it is one of the many yogas, but for most schools its the primary one. As for "all Gods are the same", well in Hinduism most schools believe in one God and many divine beings or devas. Many Vishnavas (Hindus who see Vishnu or an avatar of Vishnu as the ultimate God) see Shiva as a deva. Saivas see Vishnu as just one aspect of Shiva's five divine actions (Creation, destruction, preservation, veiling, and revealing). Vedantists see God as an impesonal force and the forms of Vishnu and Shiva as illusions. So the tolerance is more than just "you are worshipping the same God.

[Noggy]

I'm reading the Bhagavad Gita right now. It's interesting shit. It was my impression that the dedication of ones life to a god was just one of the many yogas you can do in hinduism. It's interesting that 99% of Hindus practice that kind. I bet the tolerance comes from the fact that all the Gods are the same.

 

Yes it is one of the many yogas, but for most schools its the primary one. As for "all Gods are the same", well in Hinduism most schools believe in one God and many divine beings or devas. Many Vishnavas (Hindus who see Vishnu or an avatar of Vishnu as the ultimate God) see Shiva as a deva. Saivas see Vishnu as just one aspect of Shiva's five divine actions (Creation, destruction, preservation, veiling, and revealing). Vedantists see God as an impesonal force and the forms of Vishnu and Shiva as illusions. So the tolerance is more than just "you are worshipping the same God.

 

Is not everything that exists a manifestation of Parusha(sp)?

[Tandava]

I'm reading the Bhagavad Gita right now. It's interesting shit. It was my impression that the dedication of ones life to a god was just one of the many yogas you can do in hinduism. It's interesting that 99% of Hindus practice that kind. I bet the tolerance comes from the fact that all the Gods are the same.

 

Yes it is one of the many yogas, but for most schools its the primary one. As for "all Gods are the same", well in Hinduism most schools believe in one God and many divine beings or devas. Many Vishnavas (Hindus who see Vishnu or an avatar of Vishnu as the ultimate God) see Shiva as a deva. Saivas see Vishnu as just one aspect of Shiva's five divine actions (Creation, destruction, preservation, veiling, and revealing). Vedantists see God as an impesonal force and the forms of Vishnu and Shiva as illusions. So the tolerance is more than just "you are worshipping the same God.

 

Is not everything that exists a manifestation of Parusha(sp)?

To answer that question we have to get pretty deep into philosophy. There are two broad views on God and the universe, Advaita Vedanta and Dvaita Vedanta (there are other beliefs too, but most can be broadly seen as leaning to one or other view). Advaitas believe that everything is ultimately God, nothing exists except God. Dvaitas believe that God and the Atman, spirit of all living things are both eternal and separate. Some dvaitas see all souls being aspects of one cosmic soul, the purusha.

 

In the case of Dvaitas, the devas are highly refined atmans, seperate but close to God. In the advaita view everything is God, so at some level yes all the devas are god. But the same goes for every living thing. So worshipping a deva to an advaita is at some ultimate level worshipping God, but at another level it certainly is not, it is the same as giving praise to a great man or even to the beauty of a fine peacock or graceful to the awesome strength of a lion.

[Noggy]

To answer that question we have to get pretty deep into philosophy. There are two broad views on God and the universe, Advaita Vedanta and Dvaita Vedanta (there are other beliefs too, but most can be broadly seen as leaning to one or other view). Advaitas believe that everything is ultimately God, nothing exists except God. Dvaitas believe that God and the Atman, spirit of all living things are both eternal and separate. Some dvaitas see all souls being aspects of one cosmic soul, the purusha.

 

In the case of Dvaitas, the devas are highly refined atmans, seperate but close to God. In the advaita view everything is God, so at some level yes all the devas are god. But the same goes for every living thing. So worshipping a deva to an advaita is at some ultimate level worshipping God, but at another level it certainly is not, it is the same as giving praise to a great man or even to the beauty of a fine peacock or graceful to the awesome strength of a lion.

 

But isn't anything that is atman just a manifestation of brahman? I think I get a slanted view on Hinduism due to my teacher liking a particular sect a bit more than the others

[Tandava]

 

But isn't anything that is atman just a manifestation of brahman? I think I get a slanted view on Hinduism due to my teacher liking a particular sect a bit more than the others

That is the view of groups who follow the Advaita Vedanta philosophy. As I said followers of Dvaita philosophy believe differently. A well known example of a Dvaita sect is ISKCON, who believe that the atman is distinct from Brahman. Most teachers in the west teach Advaita Vedanta, to the extent that many people think that it is Hindu philosohy. My school follows Advaita Ishvaravada, which like Advaita Vedanta does believe that all souls are God, but differs from classical Advaita Vedanta in some other ways. Most Hindu schools can be seen as broadly following Advaita or Dvaita.

 

I should say that we are getting much more philosophical than many Hindus do, the majority don't concern themselves with this detailed philosophical distinction.