A lesson for Christians on Judging and Hypocrisy

[daniel_1012]

...the above is for diggin...

[Vigile]

You must understand how difficult it is first to think that people will be in hell, it doesn't sound like a place I would want an enemy to be in.

 

Second it is very difficult for me, who loves and adores my God, to see His name mocked and cursed which brings out arrogance in me when I can show you that you have no right to mock him.

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If you can't see how your first statement contributes to a difficulty with your second statement, then no one here is going to be able to get through to you.

 

And no RIGHT to mock him? He's a myth, but even if he wasn't, he begs to be mocked. But if your god is such a pussy that he can't stand being mocked and needs to send out you, his good and faithful soldier to stop us pitiful heathens, then I hope he at least licks your wounds when you come running back to him.

 

You are really a piece of work. Self-appointed protector of all things god you are. You should get your medication checked.

[daniel_1012]

You can't accuse Iprayican from stopping you from doing anything -- God will do that, and the worst anything any Christian here can be accused of is warning you.

 

Iprayican isn't stopping any Christ rejecting person from fulfilling the desires of their heart, the Bible says God's wrath will do that... of for those that love God, God's love will do that.

[Lizard]

You were never a TrueChristian.

There..I summed up your long-winded post to what you really said here..

 

I do have a question for you, Daniel. How long have you been in the cult?

You speak of the "ignorance of the unbelieve" but I think you are the one who is ignorant..ignorant of those of us who do not believe or you would not make such statements.

 

You seem to think you have us all nicely packaged in a box with a bow on top..we must be ignorant if we reject your mythology..

[Purple]

diggin I am going to give you kudos on two points..

 

First you read this and actaully replied

 

Second you saw a problem with christians, and the church and didn't immediately say "Well they are not real christians"

 

That's pretty cool.

[pug]

diggin, thanks. Insightful.

[Dark Helmet]

Interesting Serenity that no one has replied to this.

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EDIT I spoke too hastily, there are some replies reading further down

[iprayican]

I agree with you, I did not mean to imply any different, I have non-Christian and Christian friends as well and both live their lives in service of others, some homeschool and some don't for different reasons. I don't know why I feel the need to defend myself, but by the air of your response I feel it necessary, too.

 

My family is large and that is why we are gone each day, I am not good at music or sports and my children enjoy those activities so each child has two things they can be involved in. With three of school age, that is six outside activities. We eat three meals together, we practically spend every hour in each other's company except when they are taught by others or playing sports, even then; the rest of us are there to cheer them on. My husband and his family are farmers but they decided to diversify about five years ago when the market for cranberries crashed. We are able to take the kids to the farm and even work with Dad after school some days and on weekends and have built very strong relationships with us between homeschooling, the farm, and having so much family around us. Everyone pitches in so that it isn't a burden on anyone and our home is tidy and runs like a clock.

 

We help with the youth ministries at church, so when we are serving the church family, we are also serving our own children, too; not apart from them. So many children do have two parents working and there is little time for each other, we try to bring parents and their kids together for fun fellowships and activities. It also helps us keep in touch with other parents and our kids develop friendships. My children are encouraged to explore what they might like to do with the rest of their lives, one is exploring building, the other is exploring emergency care, already having a lifeguard certification, she has a gift of writing and is wanting to start a magazine for teens. When I teach other children, mine are being taught by others so that I am not their only teacher. We have a cooperative school for homeschoolers that we do one day a week, with homework assignments being done at home the rest of the week. We are getting ready to open a pre-school with hopes of that growing into a full fledged private school.

 

Homeschooling is a wonderful way to educate if you enjoy teaching and have the time. Most homeschoolers I know are not at home all the time, there are many ways to educate and many resources outside of the home to enrich their learning. It becomes a way to fit their education to them instead of the child to a one size fits all education. It's a busy life, but a wonderful one at that. Again, I didn't explain this to you to make an air about myself, just to explain how much time I have to devote to this. The reason I am trying to fit it in is because I see people who are searching for the truth, and I don't think you have found it and because your site seemed to want the challenge of Christian's in that pursuit. A Christian is by nature a fisher of men, so if you want Christians, you must expect to deal with that behavior. If I am wrong about that assumption, I will leave you in peace.

[Celsus]

Ipray,

 

Again I ask you, what is your purpose in coming to Ex-Christian.net? We are not Never-Been-Christian.net, so you must realize we have all walked the path of faith that you do and even some of us went even deeper, yet we all have walked away from it. What do you hope to accomplish here? Like people who quit drinking, we find Christianity and religion in general, to be as obnoxious and as bad as a recovering alcoholic finds whiskey. So why would you even think your religious views would be given a nuetral treatment on a board like this, especially in a forum called "The Lions Den"?

[Guest Guest]

Ipray,

 

Again I ask you, what is your purpose in coming to Ex-Christian.net? We are not Never-Been-Christian.net, so you must realize we have all walked the path of faith that you do and even some of us went even deeper, yet we all have walked away from it. What do you hope to accomplish here? Like people who quit drinking, we find Christianity and religion in general, to be as obnoxious and as bad as a recovering alcoholic finds whiskey. So why would you even think your religious views would be given a nuetral treatment on a board like this, especially in a forum called "The Lions Den"?

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I expected to be challenged intellectually, not insulted crudely as has been the case with a number of your members. I am here for a mix of reasons; part wanting to make sure I have the truth and second as a Christian, if I have the truth, then I want to share it. I am concerned that it is difficult to debate without building walls of arrogance on both sides, even hate that I am feeling from some of you, but I still believe that love, intellect and reason can rise above those flaws. However, if you really don't want Christians here to challenge you, then you need to change the format of how you present it so people like me won't show up. You can always block them if they don't stay within the boundries of what you are inviting. The feeling I am getting from the majority is that you have already made up your mind and there is nothing I can do that might change it. There also are hostile feelings towards Christians that agree to challenge you. You have said as much, only wanting a token "stupid" Christian willing to be target practice so you can make fun of them and build your case against Christianity so others will join you. Sounds like a form of evangelizing to me. At this point, if there are people who really want to pursue certain issues with a Christian, not just attack me as a person, it might be better for us to do it off the forum. You tell me.

[Checkmate]

I've got just two things I want to say, and then I'm backing off again.

 

First to DIGGIN - . In the immortal words of King Agrippa, "Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian." BRAVO! That you, a Christian, have been able to capture CORRECTLY the essence of the problems that exist between the church and unbelievers impresses me to no end. And while I don't agree with your RELIGION, I very much respect YOU as a person. Had I remained a Christian I would have been proud to call you, "brother." Thanks.

 

Second to daniel_1012 and iprayican - Get a fucking clue! Read what Diggin has posted and begin to understand! YOU two are fucking up BAD!

 

Why is it that there have been only a HANDFUL of Christians that have come to this site and NOT made enemies of everyone? I'll name them. TotallyatPeace, Amanda, Big Toe and now Diggin. The rest of you are simply insufferable assholes, who wouldn't know human compassion if it bit you on the throat and ripped out your jugular veins!

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I don't mind you holding your religious views. Keep them. Have fun with them. Only quit beating me up about the head and shoulders with your fucking self-righteous bullshit!

 

Start being more like this "Jesus" you say you represent, and stop being Pharisees!

 

Whew! Okay. I'm all better now.

 

Once again: Thanks, Diggin. Truly a breath of fresh air.

[iprayican]

Then I will leave because I am not doing any good. I hope that diggin has the truth, I'm not sure that you will have a second chance but perhaps you can continue to explore that to ensure you are right. I will do that myself and if I find I am in error, I will do what I can to change what is taught by others, too. Thank you for allowing me to visit. See you on the other side.

[Vixentrox]

Diggin seem to be an ok sort, if still misguided about beliving in invisible friends. At least hasn't managed to raise our ire.

[Vigile]

You can't accuse Iprayican from stopping you from doing anything -- God will do that,

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Alright god, I've been warned. Do your worst you stupid bastard. Strike me between the eyes. Come on, I dare ya.

 

 

 

 

Well, still here.

 

 

Any othe warnings you got for me? How 'bout "look both ways when you cross the street." That one will surely be much more useful.

[Amethyst]

First, let me say that you need not treat unbelievers in this forum with such an air of futility. Why are they unbelievers? Some were born in unbelief, as stated in 2 Corinthians 4:4. This is a dark world, and if a fetus survives abortion by its mother, diseases such as AIDS or alcohol syndrome it might have gotten from its father, poverty from its society, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other "acts of God", it maybe will live long enough to wonder who God is, and whether he exists. And depending what the adults in this life told her, this child may grow up either totally ignorant of the existence of God, or totally ignorant of what his name and character is. Roughly 25% of the babies who survive to adulthood, grow up with a "Christian" concept. Do most of these really know Jesus and God personally? I'm guessing you would agree with me, that only a small percentage of them do. The rest are basically Christianized idolaters, not true believers.

 

Have you bothered to read ANY of the extimonies here? If you have, then you wouldn't be pulling the "we weren't Real True Christians crap. I was raised Missouri Synod Lutheran. Go read mine. Go read anyone else's. You're just being judgmental like the rest of them.

 

[Amethyst]

The more a person commits adultery, say, or lies to himself or his family, the more his character will be damaged, and the more judicial judgment he'll have to undergo to be cleansed as it is promised he will be cleansed during the time of Messiah's rule.

 

So people deserve to burn in hell for all of eternity for finding love? What if their spouse is abusive towards them, and they are afraid to divorce them for fear of their lives, but by some lucky chance they find someone else while they are still married? They still deserve eternal torment for THAT? You are still being judgmental.

[Vigile]

The feeling I am getting from the majority is that you have already made up your mind and there is nothing I can do that might change it

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It took you this long to figure that out?

[Amethyst]

Second you saw a problem with christians, and the church and didn't immediately say "Well they are not real christians"

 

Funny, that's not how I understood it. By his/her logic, we weren't Real True Christians since our parents must not have been Real True Christians.

[Vigile]

Then I will leave because I am not doing any good.  I hope that diggin has the truth, I'm not sure that you will have a second chance but perhaps you can continue to explore that to ensure you are right.  I will do that myself and if I find I am in error, I will do what I can to change what is taught by others, too.  Thank you for allowing me to visit.  See you on the other side.

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I hope you do continue to study. Don't just study appologetics though. God gave you a brain so don't be afraid to use it.

 

I pity you that you have to spend your life worrying about friends, loved ones and strangers heading for hell. I spent a lot of years there myself and it's not pleasant.

[Checkmate]

Then I will leave because I am not doing any good.  I hope that diggin has the truth, I'm not sure that you will have a second chance but perhaps you can continue to explore that to ensure you are right.  I will do that myself and if I find I am in error, I will do what I can to change what is taught by others, too.  Thank you for allowing me to visit.  See you on the other side.

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Leave if you must. I won't pretend that it saddens me. However, I would encourage you to copy and paste Diggin's insights for later study. Diggin has captured POLITELY what we heathens have been ranting and profaning.

 

That is: YOUR "job" as Christians is NOT to condemn and judge others. THAT is GOD'S business. YOUR "job", ipic, is to ABIDE in Christ and become more like "him". Salt and light. Bearing good fruit and the like.

 

I think it is sad that when heathens AND your fellow Christians can see your problem, and the only thing you can perceive is "persecution." Maybe this is your "God's" method of showing you your error? A means of humbling you?

 

Whatever. Do as you wish. Only DON'T TRY AND BLAME US. When you point a finger at someone, remember that you have three fingers pointing back at you. YOU came here. We didn't search YOU out.

[Amethyst]

I just now caught this...Daniel, you are really something else. To associate us quoting the bible to you with us being convinced of what Jesus said and then equating that with "then why are you not a Christian?" shows just how messed up you are!

 

Right.

 

"From the ashes a fire shall be woken,

A light from the shadows shall spring;

Renewed shall be blade that was broken:

The crownless again shall be king."

 

"All that is gold does not glitter,

Not all those who wander are lost;

The old that is strong does not wither,

Deep roots are not reached by frost."

 

"Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky,

Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,

Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,

One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne

In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,

One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them

In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie."

 

By using the exact same tactics, this obviously proves that Lord of the Rings is real, since I am quoting from it. Why do you not believe in Gandalf? I have just proven that he is real and that the One Ring is real, and that you should fear Sauron! The LoTR is the only true path. Bow down and worship Gandalf!!!

[Ouroboros]

I expected to be challenged intellectually, not insulted crudely as has been the case with a number of your members.

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Please, read the rules for the "Lion's Den":

Attention "Real" ™ Christians!

 

This is the section of the board to post Christian opinions, arguments, sermons and so on. Even aggressive evangelism will be tolerated in this section of the forum.

 

For more serious debate, go to the "Colosseum."

 

For the most serious debate, go to the "Arena."

 

Registration is no longer required to post in this section, however those who post under multiple psedonyms may find themselves suddenly banned from the forums.

 

Expect heated responses here.

You are in the section where we can promise we will give you heated responses.

 

Your expectations were wrong. Go to the Colosseum section instead if you want serious and a moderated forum.

[Ouroboros]

See you on the other side.

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No we won't, because either we are right, and no one will see anyone "on the other side".

 

Or you're right, and you're going to Heaven and we're going to Hell.

 

So either way, we're not going to see each other on the other side.

[Celsus]

Ipray,

 

Again I ask you, what is your purpose in coming to Ex-Christian.net? We are not Never-Been-Christian.net, so you must realize we have all walked the path of faith that you do and even some of us went even deeper, yet we all have walked away from it. What do you hope to accomplish here? Like people who quit drinking, we find Christianity and religion in general, to be as obnoxious and as bad as a recovering alcoholic finds whiskey. So why would you even think your religious views would be given a nuetral treatment on a board like this, especially in a forum called "The Lions Den"?

103539[/snapback]

 

I expected to be challenged intellectually, not insulted crudely as has been the case with a number of your members. I am here for a mix of reasons; part wanting to make sure I have the truth and second as a Christian, if I have the truth, then I want to share it. I am concerned that it is difficult to debate without building walls of arrogance on both sides, even hate that I am feeling from some of you, but I still believe that love, intellect and reason can rise above those flaws. However, if you really don't want Christians here to challenge you, then you need to change the format of how you present it so people like me won't show up. You can always block them if they don't stay within the boundries of what you are inviting. The feeling I am getting from the majority is that you have already made up your mind and there is nothing I can do that might change it. There also are hostile feelings towards Christians that agree to challenge you. You have said as much, only wanting a token "stupid" Christian willing to be target practice so you can make fun of them and build your case against Christianity so others will join you. Sounds like a form of evangelizing to me. At this point, if there are people who really want to pursue certain issues with a Christian, not just attack me as a person, it might be better for us to do it off the forum. You tell me.

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Ipray, personally I think there may be one or more reasons why you feel drawn to a site that is openly anti-christian. (1) Like many Christians who have come here, I would guess you are having doubts and maybe the beginnings of a crisis of faith due to the inherent irrationality of the belief system; or (2) You are seeking validation that you will be persecuted (never mind that verbal disagreement does not equal persecution), as is a typical Christian claim.

 

Now to your aspersion about what "I" have said. I would actually enjoy a debate with an intelligent Christian, who can actually formulate logical arguments. However, those representatives of the Christian faith seem to be in short in supply. I would also point out to you that you are in the "Lion's Den" area, which is pretty much a free for all, take no prisoners, no holds barred type of arguing and you should not expect anything else. As a personal observation, you do come across as arrogant and your comminications from the beginning sound defensive and hostile.

 

If you are truly interested in a more intellectual debate, there are several members who might engage you in the much more formalized "Arena" forum. So Ipray, as one of the moderators of ExC.net, I put the ball in your court and invite you to step up to more formalized venue, where personal attacks are not tolerated and arguments can be presented and rebutted. Of course, you will not have the justification for claiming persecution, unless logic applied to beliefs is equated as such. Tis your call, never claim the invitation wasn't given.

 

Bruce

[Checkmate]

The feeling I am getting from the majority is that you have already made up your mind and there is nothing I can do that might change it

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It took you this long to figure that out?

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No shit. I've only been screaming this fact at every Christian who invades our territory. Sometimes thrice a week. How could she just NOW be "getting the feeling"? Is she stupid or maybe blind? Good grief.

 

 

 

P.S. - THIS marks my 1,000th post! (Beware HanSolo! I'm catching up! It may take me a few decades, but soon, I'll pass you. Yeah, right. )