The Cult Test

[Sissi71]

Dear all,

 

here is a link regarding points in a cult but it also fit with biblical brainwashing : you cannot doubt about the bible, you cannot doubt about God, etc...., don't use your critical mind, but believe....something most of all faced in our former christian life..

Well for me my guru was Jesus. if you read the bible and compare with the behaviour of a guru Jesus had the characteristics. For example, people had to believe in him or to go hell, he rebuked Thomas because he was doubting about resurrection and Jesus said " blessed are those who have not seen and yet have." This is the big problem : you have no right to criticize, you must believe and let all rationality behind you when we have been created with the need of understanding, accepting what we can prove. You must not listen to your emotion and your feeling BUT believe !....when I think about all this stuff it's just crazy. I am wondering how I once believed that for so many years....Mind control is probably the answer ...

 

 

 

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult_q0.html#cq_personal_attacks

[ConureDelSol]

Dear all,

 

here is a link regarding points in a cult but it also fit with biblical brainwashing : you cannot doubt about the bible, you cannot doubt about God, etc...., don't use your critical mind, but believe....something most of all faced in our former christian life..

Well for me my guru was Jesus. if you read the bible and compare with the behaviour of a guru Jesus had the characteristics. For example, people had to believe in him or to go hell, he rebuked Thomas because he was doubting about resurrection and Jesus said " blessed are those who have not seen and yet have." This is the big problem : you have no right to criticize, you must believe and let all rationality behind you when we have been created with the need of understanding, accepting what we can prove. You must not listen to your emotion and your feeling BUT believe !....when I think about all this stuff it's just crazy. I am wondering how I once believed that for so many years....Mind control is probably the answer ...

 

 

 

http://www.orange-pa...ersonal_attacks

 

Yet I find more and more "Christians" who converted because of some sort of revelation or feeling of a divine presence...

 

In the words of the great Captain James T. Kirk: "Sometimes a feeling is all we humans have to go on."

[Sunny49]

Tnx for the link it's very informative. I think people nowadays are very depressed and are looking for answer to questions for which conventional methods didn't manage to give them. I also think these times are very insecure, economically and politically and people long for something safe and protective like church.

 

I agree with Christianity being a mind controling Cult.

[Sunny49]

I would like to add: destructive cult. Marlene Winell evan called it a death cult.

Here's the video:

 

[Mudhoney]

Cult-speak.

The cult has its own language. The cult invents new terminology or euphemisms for many things. The cult may also redefine many common words to mean something quite different. Cult-speak is also called "bombastic redefinition of the familiar", or "loading the language".

 

This one resonates with me because I am constantly exposed to xtian jargon. The fb statuses of my xtian relatives are over the top.

[Jessie]

I took a Mythological symbolism in Art, Music, and Literature class and the professor said that Christianity had its origins as a Mystery Cult and borrowed many attributes from other cults and gods worshiped by them at the time. I haven't gotten around to confirming it yet. Just throwing it out there.

 

Reading the list you posted though, it fits Christianity very well.

 

The Guru, his church, and his teachings are always right, and above criticism, and beyond reproach.

 

How many times have I been told, while asking very difficult questions to Christians, that we are human and god is god, and it is not for us to know or understand. It is the default answer when a Christian is caught in the corner, unable to retort. God is perfect and has a perfect plan; it is not our place to question him.

 

The individual members of the cult are told that they are inherently small, weak, stupid, ignorant, and sinful. Cult members are routinely criticized, shamed, ridiculed, discounted, diminished, and told in dozens of ways that they are not good enough.

 

Check. "Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound that saved a *wretch* like me." I am ignorant of whether guilt, shame, and self-ridicule is Biblical (perhaps so. No scriptures pop into my head at the moment, though. Would I John Chapter 2 be an example)?, but it is a fully active element within Christian culture. From the pulpit, we are told that we are nothing without the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, that we are deserving of eternal flame. Our imperfections are not celebrated as being a part of being human. No, human nature and imperfections are condemned as being not of god, even though human perfection is not and never will be attainable. These are constant themes in sermons and hymn. And throughout history, people have participated in masochistic ascetic practices like fasting and self-flagellation ("The mortification of the flesh") to punish our physical bodies or humble ourselves before god. The spirit is willing, but the flesh... the flesh is so weak.

 

 

There is simply no proper or honorable way to leave the cult. Period. To leave is to fail, to die, to be defeated by evil. To leave is to invite divine retribution.

 

If we are "out of the closet" religiously-speaking, we all know how this plays out. We are told we have been deceived by Satan. We are told we are on a path to hell.

 

The cult has its own language.

 

Being "born again." "Washed in the blood," "First Fruits," "Filled with the Spirit," "Laying on of Hands," calling the Bible, simply "The Word," and various other Christianese phrases and terms.

 

 

Willfulness or independence or skeptical thinking is seen as bad. Members accept the leader's reality as their own.

 

Something I've experienced myself, as well as most of you, I'm sure.

 

The beliefs of the cult are irrational, illogical, or superstitious, and fly in the face of evidence to the contrary.

 

The Creation Myth is my favorite here, but there are so many to pick from.

 

 

The cult member is supposed to take on a childish naïveté, and simply believe whatever he is told, no matter how unlikely, unrealistic, irrational, illogical, or outrageous it may be.

 

Reminds me of Matthew 18:3. lol

 

 

Denigration of competing sects, cults, religions, groups, or organizations.

 

Look at how Christians treat others of different religions. Wiccans are not part of a nature based religion that worships a goddess and a horned god. They are evil in the sight of god, and worship the Christian concept of Satan.

 

I went to a Christian school, and in our World History textbook, it outlined the Eightfold Path of Buddhism. But it warned us, though the Eightfold Path looks like a good, moralistic way to live life, that these people are still lost. Without Christ's sacrifice, their works meant nothing. That was the first time I thought "How unfair."

 

Anyone who criticizes the Guru, the cult or its dogma is attacked on a personal level.

 

"You just want to be an atheist so you can sin!" (In other words, "You're immoral.") " "The fool has said in his heart, there is no God." "You are blind. (Or ignorant of truth)" Among other, more creative ones.

 

To be fair, I see a lot of atheist on Christian drive-by insults too, as well as the denigration of religions in ways that are not completely true or right. (Stretching/Twisting/Taking out of context.)

 

 

Anyway, that's just the first 10. I have already been too long winded on this, and I've only read the first 30 question titles, but Christianity seems to fit very well into that website's criteria for being a cult so far.

[badpuppy]

Great video! I read her book, "Leaving The Fold" when i was first deconverting. It was really helpful and validating to me to have a professional clinical psychologist say: "This is abuse. This is wrong. You are not crazy for going through the emotional stuff you're going through." I do find it bothersome that few people want to discuss this in the psychology profession.

[Positivist]

Great link. Christianity is like a bacteria that encapsulates itself so it cannot be impacted by outside forces. There is a refute for everything. It's foolproof.

 

For example, a nutbar prophet entered my life when I was involved in a fledgling church plant. He whipped our church plant into a frenzy, saying he was sent by the Lord; he was very charismatic and prophetic. The church was led down the garden path; they felt unable to speak out against him because "you shall not lay your hand on the Lord's anointed". In hindsight, he had classic symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder. I wonder where they all are now.....

[Sissi71]

How many times I heard :

 

"We are poor and so miserable, we didnt deserve the goodness of God but he sent Jesus which died for us...."

 

Don't let the doubt entering in your life......1 Peter 5 8 : "Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour"...this verse I received when I told some christians I left their world.....

 

We must be like children Jesus said " did he mean "naive" and let all our critical mind behind us ?

 

They hate people which are different because they are a "danger" : you must cut all ties with "worldly people" whtich can have

a bad influence of you. Would they fear that "worldly people" open their eyes of christians ?

 

When christians are pointed they answer they are persectued for their faith. People are just paranoid like Jesus was.

 

Churches reproduce the behaviour of "Guru Jesus"..... they will also play with love bombing and threats....like Jesus did.

 

And then would we be surprised that it takes a long time of recovering when you leave christianity ?

[London]

Tnx for the link it's very informative. I think people nowadays are very depressed and are looking for answer to questions for which conventional methods didn't manage to give them. I also think these times are very insecure, economically and politically and people long for something safe and protective like church.

 

I agree with Christianity being a mind controling Cult.

 

You are so right.

It has always been my opinion that the more religious a person is indicates just how depressed they are. I think that christianity is a substitute for medication. And a cult will only pray on those who are functioning at less than 100% of their normal functioning.

christianity is like advertising, it makes you think the product is amazing, until you get it home and it breaks. But christianity makes all the right excuses to trick you into believing that your life will be empty and sad without it. The very thing you were trying to avoid in the first place. You wanted to belong and be happy.

Medication can help that better than a cult that promises all these good things but abuses you mentally by saying that you are not good enough and tries to turn you into sheep.

 

So for the many of us who have left the cult there is double damage here. A personal search for happiness was taken away and smashed into a worse form of abuse. The original issue of unhappiness was not ever addressed, then the xian abuse commenced. People are not just recovering from a cult, they are also recovering from the original issue that led them to the cult. It's like twice baked potatos, except the potatos are tasty, the cult is just a bad taste that keeps returning like untreated acid reflux times 1000.

 

For me personally, whenever I try to really rationalize what people are thinking by being a part of xianity, I just remind myself that it's a cult, they do not control their mind. I step away and move on with my life. Let them be obsessed with death, I prefer to be obsessed with LIFE!

[Sissi71]

Tnx for the link it's very informative. I think people nowadays are very depressed and are looking for answer to questions for which conventional methods didn't manage to give them. I also think these times are very insecure, economically and politically and people long for something safe and protective like church.

 

I agree with Christianity being a mind controling Cult.

 

You are so right.

It has always been my opinion that the more religious a person is indicates just how depressed they are. I think that christianity is a substitute for medication. And a cult will only pray on those who are functioning at less than 100% of their normal functioning.

christianity is like advertising, it makes you think the product is amazing, until you get it home and it breaks. But christianity makes all the right excuses to trick you into believing that your life will be empty and sad without it. The very thing you were trying to avoid in the first place. You wanted to belong and be happy.

Medication can help that better than a cult that promises all these good things but abuses you mentally by saying that you are not good enough and tries to turn you into sheep.

 

So for the many of us who have left the cult there is double damage here. A personal search for happiness was taken away and smashed into a worse form of abuse. The original issue of unhappiness was not ever addressed, then the xian abuse commenced. People are not just recovering from a cult, they are also recovering from the original issue that led them to the cult. It's like twice baked potatos, except the potatos are tasty, the cult is just a bad taste that keeps returning like untreated acid reflux times 1000.

 

For me personally, whenever I try to really rationalize what people are thinking by being a part of xianity, I just remind myself that it's a cult, they do not control their mind. I step away and move on with my life. Let them be obsessed with death, I prefer to be obsessed with LIFE!

 

You are right because many people which are trapped are vulnerable. They are unhappy in life or depressed or insecure. Probably there is one "good reason" : the society is so selfish that it is normal some look for people which are interested about someting else than materialism. I dont know how it is in your country, but in Switzerland where I live you often don't know your neighbour, people are just focused on their work and money; it's rare that people share together in a train or bus. People just live for themselves.

 

This is for me the biggest challenge now I am out of christianity and the group which for a while brought me emotional needs and when you leave you know you cannot return because you know all the manipulation and that relationships are not true and the common subject is fake (the bible).

You find again your former emotional state when you entered to the cult or the group. My biggest need actually is having new relationships and new friends and it is really not easy where I live. Sometimes I just become crazy. You wonder how long you will have to live like that and be loner....

But I try to look to the future and make my brain busy. And I take medication like Bach flowers that is really a great help. It brings me stability.

[London]

@Sissi71, Lately I keep running into the Scandanavian countries, how cool for me. I am USA.

It is like that in most of the USA, you do not know your neighbors. If you live in a small town, very small you would though.

If you are an Extrovert I can see how you might feel lonely, it does make life hard when people are not there to interact with. However as an Introvert, I know that I can be connected globally and that works for me. I actually moved a while back and had to leave all my friends <sad>, so right now I have zero friends here. But for me it is really nice. I like having friends but at this time in my life I want freedom. I am not lonely at all. I guess because I can entertain myself so well.

Sissi you are not alone. You may not have anyone, or few people, to hang out with in the real world right now, but you are never alone. And remember that life always changes, right now is not forever.

[Sissi71]

You're right London. Well I think the difference is that in life it takes time to make friendships when in churches you have instant relationships. But I have hope and my head is full of purposes for my future.

[Sunny49]

Quote

 

The cult has its own language.

 

 

 

Being "born again." "Washed in the blood," "First Fruits," "Filled with the Spirit," "Laying on of Hands," calling the Bible, simply "The Word," and various other Christianese phrases and terms.

Hmm, that's interesting. I always tend to interpret their language literally, maybe that's why I have problems and other Christians don't? Maybe I don't understand their language?

[Sunny49]

I do find it bothersome that few people want to discuss this in the psychology profession.

 

Yeah, me too. Although I don't think liberal, moderate Christianity is the problem. It's the authoritarian, conservative, black and white Christianity that creates traumas, in my opinion.

[London]

You're right London. Well I think the difference is that in life it takes time to make friendships when in churches you have instant relationships. But I have hope and my head is full of purposes for my future.

 

I totally understand, it is very quick. For me that is actually a red flag. Anyone who would want to become my friend without getting to know me makes me uneasy. But that is because I know that quality friendships come from a place where people take the time to know someone, and if they have things in common they bond as friends. Good friends last for many years, if not a complete lifetime. Quick/shallow friendships always result in drama. They never treat you well, they have a messy life that they involve you in, etc. It's not worth the hassle.

These days, even online people are like that. I was a member of another, less interesting forum, and 2 days after I started posting this person sent me a "friend" request. Well, I could care less about "collecting" people online. I don't participate in facebook or my space. But I thought to myself, I have not even read any of this person's posts and she wants to "friend" me. Well come to find out that she was a huge troublemaker on that forum and had been banned many times and re-registered over and over. She was one of the troublemakers that would not go away. The forum had nothing to do with religion, but I found out she was a xian. Suprised?

In my experience, any good relationship is worth developing, and a great friendship is priceless.

[badpuppy]

I do find it bothersome that few people want to discuss this in the psychology profession.

 

Yeah, me too. Although I don't think liberal, moderate Christianity is the problem. It's the authoritarian, conservative, black and white Christianity that creates traumas, in my opinion.

 

Yes... but... most moderate Christians still believe in Hell. They just don't "focus" on it. But if you ask them, most will still say they are being saved from hell and not everyone goes to heaven. Maybe extreme liberal Christianity but that's even more watered down. It seems the problem is that Christianity has been built based upon a need for literalism. Maybe it could have been taken as wholly symbolic centuries ago, but at some point it got super literal and that understanding and history of the faith can't now be undone. In light of all the damage caused by this religion... it seems that most moderate Christians are still somewhat held there by "not wanting to risk hell", and liberal Christians seem somewhat held there by a bit of that "just in case" stance, combined with liking the social community church provides. I'm sure there were some "nominal Nazis" too, but they still added their voice to the Nazi party and tried to give it an air of legitimacy.

 

I wish I didn't feel that way about all Christianity. I wish I could be more generous about it. And while I don't attempt to deconvert Christians and I genuinely do understand many of them "need" a skydaddy and taking it away would be like telling a five year old to go get a job and his own apartment... I still don't have to like it, nor see any benefit to humanity in general with regards to the continued existence of the faith.

[Sunny49]

Yeah, I think there would be no problem with Christianity if it wasn't taken literally. If they would say all these biblical stories are metaphorical then people would be more at ease, and I also think they would gain more believers. But why don't they do that? I guess it's because of their wish for power and control. And also, what you said, because of all that demage done.

I was raised as a liberal Christian and it was ok for me, I had no traumas, no conflict, nothing. I believed in God and Jesus (sort of) but not blindly, I was still skeptical, the problems started when I attended catholic high school, I encountered there the real, fundamentalist, conservative christianity and I was shocked! I couldn't believe my ears! I felt like I was in medieval again! I was just waitin for them to start burning witches How to solve this problem with fundamentalism (also in Islam etc.)?

[London]

The best way to make someone a non-believer is to send them to catholic school. Worked for me.

[badpuppy]

@Sunny I think most literalistic Christians are in the equivalent of an abusive marriage with their faith. They can't let go of literalism because they wouldn't stay Christian if they did. It's harmed them too much. Christians deny that harm generally until they leave Christianity, then they're willing to see the abuse inherent in the system.

[Sunny49]

@Sunny I think most literalistic Christians are in the equivalent of an abusive marriage with their faith. They can't let go of literalism because they wouldn't stay Christian if they did. It's harmed them too much. Christians deny that harm generally until they leave Christianity, then they're willing to see the abuse inherent in the system.

 

Yeah, this really makes sense....interesting!

 

The best way to make someone a non-believer is to send them to catholic school. Worked for me.

 

It made me question and research. But it's hard for me to get over it. I envy those people who can get over it soon. In my school they intimidated us. Now I'm talking about my fear, hoping this way it will dissappear, but it takes so long for me to recover. This forum helps me a lot, thanks guys

[Sunny49]

@badpuppy: But, do you think it harms everyone? I always thought there are some people who are ok with it....who are maybe not so sensitive or I don't know. What do you think?

[Sissi71]

About fundamentalist christians :

 

http://www.city-data.com/forum/religion-philosophy/369647-cult-christianity.html

[London]

@Sunny I think most literalistic Christians are in the equivalent of an abusive marriage with their faith. They can't let go of literalism because they wouldn't stay Christian if they did. It's harmed them too much. Christians deny that harm generally until they leave Christianity, then they're willing to see the abuse inherent in the system.

 

Yeah, this really makes sense....interesting!

 

The best way to make someone a non-believer is to send them to catholic school. Worked for me.

 

It made me question and research. But it's hard for me to get over it. I envy those people who can get over it soon. In my school they intimidated us. Now I'm talking about my fear, hoping this way it will dissappear, but it takes so long for me to recover. This forum helps me a lot, thanks guys

 

I think some people recover from the bulk of it faster. But everyone has a moment or two many years later when it's a terrible flash back to the negative events in the past. The human mind "holds" things in the dark when we cannot deal with it properly. When those things surface it creates distress. But that's just our mind letting it out, purging it. And everyone is different in how they cope. Take it one day at a time. Admit to yourself that you are having a bad day, it really helps. And remember that tomorrow is another clean slate to work with. If you feel like it's all too much, talk to a therapist or a help line. No one needs to be alone in dealing with the aftermath of the cult. We all heal differently. Remember, the end goal is to be healthy, however long it takes.

[badpuppy]

@badpuppy: But, do you think it harms everyone? I always thought there are some people who are ok with it....who are maybe not so sensitive or I don't know. What do you think?

 

I think everybody psychologically responds to their environments in different ways. Like I can step back and watch my brother and *I* feel there is empirical harm being done to him being inside literalistic Christianity. However, he may not feel that way. At least not at this time. If he ever deconverts he may feel "permission" to think those unthinkable thoughts. But if he remains forever in Christianity (which seems fairly likely to me), he may never see himself as a "victim" of Christianity as a faith. He doesn't have the proper reference point to see it that way.

 

So can I stand back and say he's been harmed? I don't know. From my perspective he has been, but from his perspective the religion itself isn't abusive. Do I have the right to categorize "other people's" experiences? I don't think that I do. Only the experiencer can really determine how something has affected them or not affected them. It is the victim's right to determine the level of harm they feel they've suffered. I think a therapist or other type of support system can help someone to see and deal with how something may have affected them, but I think we have to be careful not to project our own feelings and reactions onto other people, "creating" a trauma or upset they didn't feel until we manufactured it for them. (A good example of this is extreme feminists who have successfully put "oppressed and victimized" feelings into women who never would have thought men were out to oppress them otherwise.)

 

In Christianity, clearly not everyone is equally harmed. Whether that's because they can't logically think through the situation or they are more emotionally resilient or some other factor I'm not thinking of, I'm not sure.