openbook Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Recently, one of my fundamentalist friends decided to move her wedding up by like six months. Her reasoning for this was because she wanted to preserve her emotional and sexual purity. What she meant by sexual purity is obvious. However, I had no clue what she meant by emotional purity. Aparently emotional purity is the act of not letting yourself experience romantic feelings for another person until marriage. After doing some research on this topic, I found out that there are some churches whos fathers arrange the marriages of their daughters. These churches also teach their daughters that allowing yourself to form emotional attachments with members of the opposite sex is wrong if this person is not your spouse. Any romantic feelings, or feelings of attraction are wrong. If you experience these thoughts it is, because you are not keeping god first in your heart All I could think to myself is that this is not a healthy mind set. No wonder there are so many divorces in the Christian church if they are teaching their daughters and sons to not form emotional attachments before marriage! Further more, I was told by my friend that every time you allow yourself to become emotional (not physically) intimate with someone, you are giving a piece of your heart away forever. Does this mean that love is a finite possession? According to my friend, she wanted to allow herself to be close with her fiance, but only wanted to do so in the context of a godly marriage. Quite frankly I'm appalled that there are people who thing this way. In a county where "protecting marriage" is such a hot topic, you would think that churches would be teaching their children how to develop healthy relationships, not how to make children emotionally incompetent. Has anyone else hear of this concept before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positivist Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 In a county where "protecting marriage" is such a hot topic, you would think that churches would be teaching their children how to develop healthy relationships, not how to make children emotionally incompetent. Has anyone else hear of this concept before? And, another frigid marriage is born. Lovely. The purity thing is not only insane, but I think it's also incredibly destructive. By subduing their natural emotions and feelings I think young people harm themselves (and create frigid marriages). I was taught a LOT of bad shit about marriage. Gawd. I need therapy to undo the damage. Great point about the church and how it should be teaching children how to develop healthy relationships and have healthy boundaries. They do this only in the extreme. We were taught that men are leaders while women were poor, vulnerable, stupid chattel. And we were taught that anything outside of a double date with no kissing is a horrible sin and God will punish you. Thinking horny thoughts is a sin. Best to marry someone for whom you have no feelings, so that you don't sin. Ever. Crazy shit! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Recently, one of my fundamentalist friends decided to move her wedding up by like six months. Her reasoning for this was because she wanted to preserve her emotional and sexual purity. What she meant by sexual purity is obvious. However, I had no clue what she meant by emotional purity. Aparently emotional purity is the act of not letting yourself experience romantic feelings for another person until marriage. Wow. Full stop. That is one screwed up flavor of Christianity she is in. After doing some research on this topic, I found out that there are some churches whos fathers arrange the marriages of their daughters. These churches also teach their daughters that allowing yourself to form emotional attachments with members of the opposite sex is wrong if this person is not your spouse. Any romantic feelings, or feelings of attraction are wrong. If you experience these thoughts it is, because you are not keeping god first in your heart All I could think to myself is that this is not a healthy mind set. No wonder there are so many divorces in the Christian church if they are teaching their daughters and sons to not form emotional attachments before marriage! Further more, I was told by my friend that every time you allow yourself to become emotional (not physically) intimate with someone, you are giving a piece of your heart away forever. Does this mean that love is a finite possession? According to my friend, she wanted to allow herself to be close with her fiance, but only wanted to do so in the context of a godly marriage. Quite frankly I'm appalled that there are people who thing this way. Wow. Which denominations have this barbaric practice? They are setting themselves up for a lifetime of pain. Relationships are not something you give away forever. They are a skill that needs to be developed. Essentially this drags out your first date to last years. A first date should never last for years. Be ready to support your friend after her marriage when she figures out something has gone wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene39 Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Has anyone else hear of this concept before? Um, no, not to the extent of what you are saying. That's disturbing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandora Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 I have a cousin who has decided to live with her fiance for a year before they get married. Somehow, she thinks they will be able to avoid sex. I don't get it. I wonder if she'll end up marrying earlier than that year just so she can have sex. They just got baptised last weekend... together. Ridiculous thinking, IMO. I've never heard of modern US Christians who support arranged or business marriages... but it doesn't surprise me they exist. Personally, I have no qualms with it, but in our society and culture, I don't think such a marriage would last. Maybe in India, but not here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue elephant Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Hmmmmm. Don't think for a minute that I am supporting this sort of shit ... BUT a bit of hard headed thinking ... as opposed to hormone fired thinking ... about the person you are going to spend the rest of your life with could be a good thing. I have been reading quite a few stories of courtship in the ex-quiverfull sites lately. A bit of formality and daddy checking out the person and the family could be good, as long as daddy is checking them out for the right things (such as emotional stability and being a responsible citizen). But I also wonder if you able to switch off romantic feelings about the person you are about to marry very soon - is it because the romantic feelings are not actually there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 That's asinine. When you fall out of love it's because you found someone else or the first one wasn't right for you or you found out s/he was a jerk. In 1 & 2, you stay friends; you still love them, but in a different way. 3 means you're done, it's over, you do not have a relationship with that person if you can help it. So in most cases, you do leave a little of your heart with them, but on a different level. You can't run out of romantic love, but you can't be in love with more than one person at the same time. That's like an emotional orgy (sorry, I can't think of a better term right now). Am I making any sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asanerman Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 In a county where "protecting marriage" is such a hot topic, you would think that churches would be teaching their children how to develop healthy relationships, not how to make children emotionally incompetent. Has anyone else hear of this concept before? What threatens the religionist is that through the romantic sexual act human beings can experience perceptually that they are good and that life is good. Even if the motives that lead a person to a particular sexual encounter are neurotic, and even if, immediately afterwards, her/he is tortured by shame or guilt--so long as and to the extent that he/she is able to enjoy the sex act, life is asserting itself within him/her the principles that a human being is an end in him/herself is asserting itself. ~Nathaniel Branden Religious enemies of the human mind, self-esteem, life on earth, and hostile to the phenomenon of human sexuality will implement any ecclesiastical decree necessary to insure a person never understands that romantic sex is the highest form of selfishness in the noblest sense of the word. In romantic love, when a couple project that they desire to achieve the experience of self-awareness by means of each other's body and person that is the highest and most intimate tribute a human being can offer or receive. If you teach that selfishness in the noblest sense ( i.e., in the giving and receiving of the sexual act) is sinful and unholy and that spirituality is not about body/mind,/spirit but the supernatural salvation from sinful humanness; what could you do under the guise of being "holy and righteous" to prevent a couple from experiencing the potent principle latent in romantic sexuality? What in god's name would happen if people find that when sexual personalities are harmoniously complementary they can enjoy, through the romantic sexual act, a strong sense of shared mind and value, a deep experience of self ,of being spiritual as well as physically naked, and glory in that fact? One divine solution, I suppose, would be to make sure a couple "feels spirituality and sexually alienated and estranged so that any sexual experience is felt as autistic (at best) or frustratingly 'physical' or degradingly meaningless," except maybe for procreation! (ibid) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openpalm45 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I was involved in a ministry that was kind of like this. We were told to have friendships with guys that were so good and healthy that they were like our brothers and we were their sisters, but we were told to be sure to remain emotionally pure, and if we were seen spending a lot of time with one guy people in the ministry would confront us about it. They would encourage us to never be so close to a guy that the friendship would bother our future husband, because we should conduct ourselves as if we were already married, out of respect for our future husband. I was never quite sure where I could find this balance of close but not too close. I even read a book called "Emotional Purity" trying to get a better understanding because I longed so much to do things the right way. Im so thankful to be out now, and to be able to decide for myself what kind of friendships I want to have or how close I want to get to people. I am in a relationship right now with a man who encourages me to have close friendships with other guys. It is incredible to be on the other side, and see how good it is. I love having many close friendships with guys, and I'm lucky to have a wonderful man who trusts me, and helps me get rid of this ridiculous brainwashing! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I was involved in a ministry that was kind of like this. We were told to have friendships with guys that were so good and healthy that they were like our brothers and we were their sisters, but we were told to be sure to remain emotionally pure, and if we were seen spending a lot of time with one guy people in the ministry would confront us about it. They would encourage us to never be so close to a guy that the friendship would bother our future husband, because we should conduct ourselves as if we were already married, out of respect for our future husband. I was never quite sure where I could find this balance of close but not too close. I even read a book called "Emotional Purity" trying to get a better understanding because I longed so much to do things the right way. Im so thankful to be out now, and to be able to decide for myself what kind of friendships I want to have or how close I want to get to people. I am in a relationship right now with a man who encourages me to have close friendships with other guys. It is incredible to be on the other side, and see how good it is. I love having many close friendships with guys, and I'm lucky to have a wonderful man who trusts me, and helps me get rid of this ridiculous brainwashing! That is wrong. If a guy is upset that a gal had a romance in the past then he has a jealousy problem. That's like making women cover their writs to their ankles so that men won't feel lust. Guys are responsible for their own mind. If a guy has a problem he needs to work through it - not blame women. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openpalm45 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 That is wrong. If a guy is upset that a gal had a romance in the past then he has a jealousy problem. That's like making women cover their writs to their ankles so that men won't feel lust. Guys are responsible for their own mind. If a guy has a problem he needs to work through it - not blame women. Absolutely. But I swallowed all of that thinking whole. Im really hard on myself anyway, so it was easy to take the responsibility for things like that, instead of thinking that the guy might need to grow up and not be so jealous. Naturally, the sexism against women in the church made sense to me as well. Im glad to be out now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asanerman Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I was involved in a ministry that was kind of like this. We were told to have friendships with guys that were so good and healthy that they were like out brothers and we were their sisters, but we were told to be sure to remain emotionally pure, and if we were seen spending a lot of time with one guy people in the ministry would confront us about it. They would encourage us to never be so close to a guy that the friendship would bother our future husband, because we should conduct ourselves as if we were already married, out of respect for our future husband. I was never quite sure where I could find this balance of close but not too close. I even read a book called "Emotional Purity" trying to get a better understanding because I longed so much to do things the right way. Im so thankful to be out now, and to be able to decide for myself what kind of friendships I want to have or how close I want to get to people. I am in a relationship right now with a man who encourages me to have close friendships with other guys. It is incredible to be on the other side, and see how good it is. I love having many close friendships with guys, and I'm lucky to have a wonderful man who trusts me, and helps me get rid of this ridiculous brainwashing! OpenPalm it maybe that our desire for companionship and love is our inner desire to perceive ourselves as an entity in reality, that is, to experience the perspective of our objectivity through and by means of the reactions and responses of other human beings. Just holding a conversation with another human being entails a marginal experience of visibility as a conscious entity. In an intimate relationship with a person one deeply admires and care about a person expects far more inner visibility. A sharing, if you will, of common mind, virtues, qualities, values, vulnerabilities etc. There is noting more painful, personally violating, and bewildering as having your value and virtue as a human being be unrecognized and unappreciated or worse be penalized for having them. That experience is vicious by product of a small and neurotic mind. The emotional repulsion felt even by those "brainwashed" to endure such is an attribute to the human spirit desiring to assert itself! Some where deep within yourself you knew at some level the whole notion of a twisted "Emotional Purity" was toxic and you listen to your only means of survival--your ability to reason and decide. Other women and men are in the fight of their lives seeking autonomy and are looking for encouragement and strategies that facilitate their becoming. Once a person has tasted the sweetness of liberty there is no other option than to go forward. There is no way we can not speak and point to a heather way! Once we've learned to trust our better selves we are enabled to take it to the next level by discovering those who recognize and appropriate common values of self respect and self awareness. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivingLife Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 The more I read these stories the more I come to realise just how whacked out the US xianity really is. Not even the yanks I met in Rhodesia in my youth were this weird and they would have been missionaries kids mostly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
expat674 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I have not heard of this concept before, but I have known many christian women would not date anyone unless God had told them that he was "the one." Result = they are still waiting 15-20 years later. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentknight Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 There are only two ways such a marriage works, in my opinion, extreme luck, or a sense of duty. Two individuals "doing their duty for god" can remain married, unhappily, and then die a sad death never having been truly happy in their entire lives, and then it all ends without any happy afterlife, because they were lied to. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positivist Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I was involved in a ministry that was kind of like this. Me too. Gawd. I rue the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneTarus Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I have not heard of this concept before, but I have known many christian women would not date anyone unless God had told them that he was "the one." Result = they are still waiting 15-20 years later. and I think this is just horrible abuse to make people buy into this sort of crap. they may consider it filthy for these people to have normal relationships like "the world" does. but really their values are the ones that are obscene. These people are wasting their lives on a Mr. or Mrs. right that will never come along. esp when their religion dictates that they basically act to the whole world like they are frigid robots with no real human needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 It's extreme, yes, but it's not that far removed from the "thought crimes" that Christianity's always encouraged. It's just taking the concept further and formalizing it a bit more than evangelicals have been. I've no doubt it'll become more popular though. It's not enough that girls are valued--and devalued--according to what they've chosen to do with their crotches. Now they aren't even allowed to get close enough to another human to be able to tell how compatible they are with them before legally shackling themselves together. Sounds like your friend is heading for sheer disaster. I've got to wonder what kind of pieces of shit church leaders have to be to tell young people they're not only not allowed to experience joy through touching, but cannot experience emotional intimacy either--except in the narrow, pre-approved channels THEY think are acceptable. I mean, really, what kind of controlling wormfucker would ever think that's okay to tell another human being anything like that? Oh, yeah, the same wormfuckers who tell gay kids that it's okay to be gay as long as they never, ever have relationships or act on their feelings ever. This life is all I'm sure I'm getting. I'm not wasting another day of it, not even another hour, without squeezing all the joy out of it that I can. Love isn't something to squander or take for granted. ETA: Much blahblah about Christianity's insistence that love is a zero-sum finite game and how fucking stupid and ridiculous that is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wndwalkr99 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 You can't run out of romantic love, but you can't be in love with more than one person at the same time. That's like an emotional orgy (sorry, I can't think of a better term right now). Am I making any sense? I'm pulling rank here. Yes, a person can. Maybe YOU can't, but please don't imagine that you're speaking for me here. Minor edit for clarity 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Lilith, there are lots of people who can and do love many people at once. I've even been in that situation and things went just fine for me even though I'm solidly monogamous (remember, you don't have to screw every single person you feel romantic love for). My ex-BF came out as polyamorous shortly after our breakup and married a nice poly girl and they're apparently doing just fine with their various boyfriends and girlfriends; I've got no question in my mind that he's "really" polyamorous even though when we were together we were happily monogamous. He just lacks whatever it is in other people that makes them monogamous, and even when we were together neither of us was especially jealous or possessive. It's totally okay if you're monogamous. It's also totally okay if you're poly. How you love doesn't make you more or less evolved than anybody else. Just be aware that there are different kinds of people out there, okay? What's true for you isn't true for everybody. The idea that now Christian women can't even figure out if they have emotional chemistry with someone before legally binding themselves together is so ludicrous I don't even know how to approach it. It's so fucking idiotic that it beggars belief. The girl in the OP is taking this huge plunge and she very likely doesn't even know if she's compatible with this guy. I wonder how long it's going to take for her to start thinking this wasn't actually God's will at all and divorce the guy in total contravention of Scripture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babylonian Dream Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I'm still dealing with shit because of christianity in the relationship department. I'm making improvement. But It's nothing but damaging. I was told that if I got close to anyone, be it sex, kissing, holding hands, or anything like that, I'm helping her cheat on her future husband. There was more stuff. And now I'm left alone trying to figure out how to start and develope relationships at almost 23 years old. I can develope friendships just fine. But I'm still trying to figure out how to develope intimate ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 BD, wish I could help. It sounds like Christianity did a real mindfuck on you. If it helps, my husband and I have between us had enough romantic/sexual partners to reasonably populate a pair of football teams right down to the cheerleaders and waterboys. Far from feeling threatened by his prowess or he by mine, I'm nothing but thrilled that he's learned so much about how women's bodies work (and he seems quite appreciative of what I've picked up over the years)--and we both joke about how nice it is that we've already done our time in couples therapy. My previous partners didn't "help me cheat on my husband." They taught me about relationships, about sex, about what I needed and wanted, about how to relate to other people, about how to know when something was good or bad for me, and most of all how to comport myself like a rational adult in a passionate relationship. But had I not had the experiences I've had, I'd have had a lot tougher time learning that stuff. It'd have been nice had we met in high school and been high-school sweethearts and married right after graduation, but I admit I wonder if we'd have really appreciated each other or learned what we needed to learn to be good partners now. I don't think either of us were this awesome right out of the box Late bloomers are just that: late bloomers. They'll get there. That old saying about kissing a lot of frogs to find the prince is sometimes spot-on, and so is the equally old saying about the journey's first step being the hardest. Sit on the suitcase, sweetie, you're heading out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babylonian Dream Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 BD, wish I could help. It sounds like Christianity did a real mindfuck on you. If it helps, my husband and I have between us had enough romantic/sexual partners to reasonably populate a pair of football teams right down to the cheerleaders and waterboys. Far from feeling threatened by his prowess or he by mine, I'm nothing but thrilled that he's learned so much about how women's bodies work (and he seems quite appreciative of what I've picked up over the years)--and we both joke about how nice it is that we've already done our time in couples therapy. My previous partners didn't "help me cheat on my husband." They taught me about relationships, about sex, about what I needed and wanted, about how to relate to other people, about how to know when something was good or bad for me, and most of all how to comport myself like a rational adult in a passionate relationship. But had I not had the experiences I've had, I'd have had a lot tougher time learning that stuff. It'd have been nice had we met in high school and been high-school sweethearts and married right after graduation, but I admit I wonder if we'd have really appreciated each other or learned what we needed to learn to be good partners now. I don't think either of us were this awesome right out of the box Late bloomers are just that: late bloomers. They'll get there. That old saying about kissing a lot of frogs to find the prince is sometimes spot-on, and so is the equally old saying about the journey's first step being the hardest. Sit on the suitcase, sweetie, you're heading out. This is a very inspiring response! Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chikirin Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 The only Christians I knew who were ever able to have normal healthy relations with the opposite sex were the ones who basically ignored these fundamental Christian expectations, like 'no holding hands.' People who actually follow these rules are more like the Taliban than they realize. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I'm still dealing with shit because of christianity in the relationship department. I'm making improvement. But It's nothing but damaging. I was told that if I got close to anyone, be it sex, kissing, holding hands, or anything like that, I'm helping her cheat on her future husband. There was more stuff. And now I'm left alone trying to figure out how to start and develope relationships at almost 23 years old. I can develope friendships just fine. But I'm still trying to figure out how to develope intimate ones. That is amost exactly where I was at your age. The best advise I can give you is to grab somebody willing and be intimate with them. Let them know that you have some religious stuff you are working to get over. You should talk before hand about what you want and what you are willing to do. See for yourself what the big deal is all about. Then afterwards remind yourself that you have no regrets and no reason to feel guilty or ashamed. Whatever you two agree to do is between you. It's nobody else's business. However if you want to up your game you can make a thread for that in the protected forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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