Theistic Satanism (Age Of Aquarius) Discussion (Continued)

[Ravenstar]

Canadian women are a secret resource 

 

and we can read!

[Evolution_beyond]

Case's in point: (using your logic)

You ignored your slipping in the experiencing unexplainable events.... and unexplainable events aren't proof of anything other than some people report events (or more likely perceptions) that have not yet been explained.

~ UFO's - they are 'unexplained events' that people report... does that mean we can positively say aliens exist?

~ Witnesses to alien abductions... is their testimony proof of an actual phenomenon?.. why not?

~ Seeing hags at night: is that proof of succubi? (or maybe it's just sleep paralysis?)

~ Stories of people encountering fairies... do we now have proof of the existence of the fay?

~ Finding large footprints: (actual physical evidence) supporting tons of stories about a large ape-like creature - from many places all over the world... Can we assert that Bigfoot exists then?

~ Toy 'planes' in archaeology: (more real evidence) Do we believe that the ancients had flight?

~ Ancient texts (older than the Bible, in original form and even more physical evidence) that tell us we were made by beings from a rogue planet... is that proof of the Annunaki?

~ All the experiences from all over the world, throughout history by non-christians about their 'spiritual' experiences... why is this not evidence and proof of their deities?

 

So.. how do we know what to take as true and what to reject? In your logic all of these are true.

 

Masculine and feminine are abstract qualities that have nothing to do with sentience (ie: 'ships' are considered 'feminine', are ships sentient? - take a french class) ... also you have no ability for abstract thought, at all.. and how many pagans (or pagan rituals have you been to) do you know? example: The earth is considered feminine and the sky is considered masculine...The Oak tree is masculine, the Willow is feminine... but not sentient. Most neo-pagans also follow the alchemical idea that all is either earth, air, water or fire - as abstract qualities, not reality though. Chemistry tells us different... oh goodness...

 

You don't understand paganism.

 

You are right about Jungian universality, however we are storytellers... we use these archetypes to explain the world to ourselves, or at least we did until we found the scientific method. Poetry, metaphor and allegory are ways of conveying difficult abstractions... and I suggest reflects more about human psychology than any 'outer' reality. Even if this 'universality' points to a metaphysical reality underlying all - it still doesn't prove anything about a god, and definitely not about Yahweh the Terrible.

Ravenstar, the way you explain paganism (allegorical, symbolic nature worship) really chimes strongly with me. I would love to embrace this kind of paganism as a spiritual path in my own life.

 

The problem is that I find the various forms of paganism difficult to get my head around or to work out which ones would suit me. And some of them take belief in gods literally (which doesn't suit me) and I also don't believe in magic and I worry that some forms of paganism are annoyingly hippy-ish (wicca for example). Also my sister is wicca and I don't wanna seem to be copying her.

 

But I really would like to look into paganism more deeply so any information would be helpful.

 

Also, good job on showing up the flaws of OC's logic - if you follow OC's logic then you do indeed need to accept and believe claims about ghosts, UFOs, fairies and all of the claims of other religions too.

[Evolution_beyond]

The theological problem of evil has many good solutions. 

 

No it doesn't.  You can explain God allowing human evils to occur because of free will (after all, who doesn't like being free to choose their own actions?)

 

But you can't explain the existence of natural suffering like disease without God being some kind of twisted, sadistic maniac (after all he must have designed each and every organism that causes disease, planning in meticulous detail just exactly what kind of agony they cause).  The sick bastard!

[Ravenstar]

Evolution_beyond... I'm eclectic (and mostly atheist) I created my own sort of system - a blend of pantheism, buddhism, hinduism mysticism, stoicism, personal development and a smattering from other paths.

 

Start with Hermes Trismegistus...(neo-pagan religions are mostly based on his teachings - except Asatru I think) then comparative religions (pagan first) and try stuff out... take what fits, discard the rest. Ignore what you feel is bunk (there's lots in all paths... someone always has to embellish good ideas with stories, bullshit and myths - if you look hard enough you'll see the basics underneath running through it all) I won't go into magick here... it's a complicated subject - but not necessary for the pagan path.

 

(Most Wiccans I've met... are ridiculous. That's just my experience though and since pagans are few and far between... I've only met a few.)

 

Spend lots of time observing and being in nature... I started with watching the cycles of the moon, religiously! (lol) after a while I could tell you day or night what the phase was and when it would rise or set. Then I began to observe very closely the seasons (gardening really helps - get your hands in the dirt) and wild animal behavior. I realized the animals are very wise - they eat when they are hungry, sleep when they are tired...they are far less 'savage' than we think... they don't force themselves into lifestyles that are against their nature. Something people have forgotten and messes us up IMHO. (circadian rhythm has a purpose!)

 

Then I aligned my own patterns with that of nature... example, winter is for reminiscing, imagining, planning and storing energy.. spring is for beginning goals and ventures.. summer is for following through, autumn is for harvesting and preparation for the slow time of winter. The full moon is for smaller goals.. the dark for planning.. waxing - putting effort out, waning more reflective.. etc... it's all spirals and cycles. Around and around we go.

 

hope that helps

[Astreja]

Ravenstar, I'm also an aficionada of stoicism.  A couple of years ago I heard an interview on the CBC (Ideas, I think) with William Irvine, author of A Guide to the Good Life:  The Ancient Art of Stoic Joy.  Very nice intro to the philosophy.

[Ravenstar]

Awesome.. I'll have to check that out. Thanks 

 

I was introduced to Stoicism by first reading Marcus Aurelius - and then realized he was a newcomer!  LOL

[OrdinaryClay]

You are right about Jungian universality, however we are storytellers... we use these archetypes to explain the world to ourselves, or at least we did until we found the scientific method. Poetry, metaphor and allegory are ways of conveying difficult abstractions... and I suggest reflects more about human psychology than any 'outer' reality. Even if this 'universality' points to a metaphysical reality underlying all - it still doesn't prove anything about a god, and definitely not about Yahweh the Terrible.

 

It does say something about attributing sentient qualities to concepts outside ourselves and then engaging in rituals to curry their favor or influence events.

 

The unexplained existence of common experience across every culture through out time needs to be explained. Pseudo psychology does not do it. As I explained earlier an Inference to the Best Explanation allows us, given the totality of evidence, to draw some plausible explanations. The evidence points strongly to their existing a supernatural reality. If the supernatural exists then materialists are wrong. This alone is a very important result.

 

The existence of a supernaturally reality does go one step further to building the case for the existence of the God of the Bible. I have said repeatedly that the case for God is built around many, many arguments.

 

 

[OrdinaryClay]

 

 

First, there is personal evidence. What I think you meant to say is that God does not perform tricks for you personally.

 

The evidence for God is a collection. I understand the arguments well so they are mine also.

I see you can't actually defend your views personally, that's fine. Most Christians can't.

 

Let's just have a little warm up match. Can you tell me your personal view on salvation? Do you believe in the penal substitution theory?

I believe salvation is through Christ, He died on the cross and rose again physically on the third day.

[JadedAtheist]

 

I believe salvation is through Christ, He died on the cross and rose again physically on the third day.

Is that the only requirement one must have to be 'born again'?

[OrdinaryClay]

 

 

I believe salvation is through Christ, He died on the cross and rose again physically on the third day.

Is that the only requirement one must have to be 'born again'?

Faith in Christ, repentence of one's sins and the acceptance of Christ as the Son of God is all it takes.

 

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;  (Eph 2:8)

 

[mcdaddy]

 

 

The theme of destructive spirits is common through out cultures and stretches back far before zoroastrianism. How is it the pagans found out about angra mainyu. A far better explanations is that there truly is an entity that has deceived humanity for as along as humanity has been spiritual.

How can you be smart enough to operate a computer? You just proved that ghosts are real! Do you even realize that you have failed? Can you comprehend that mangnitude of your failure?

So much win, MM.

 

SO MUCH FUCKING WIN

[Astreja]

OC, there is no physical evidence to support the existence of the god of the Bible.  Pointing at random pretty sunsets and playing games of philosophical Twister is, not to put too fine a point on it, just a waste of our time.  If your god did actually exist, with its purportedly massive power and glory, its traces in the physical universe would be obvious to anyone with even a rudimentary knowledge of science.

 

As for "salvation," I believe that salvation is a myth; that the Jesus of the Bible is a mythical character perhaps based on a real rabbi; that said Jesus may have died but did not rise from the dead; and that no person past, present or future will ever find themselves in either heaven or hell because there are no such places, and no such thing as life after death either.

 

I also think that accepting a human sacrifice would be more likely to condemn someone as immoral in the eyes of a genuine god.

[JadedAtheist]

 

Faith in Christ, repentence of one's sins and the acceptance of Christ as the Son of God is all it takes.

 

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;  (Eph 2:8)

So, if that's it then I don't need to believe in the trinity or that Jesus is (a) God?

Also, how do I "accept" Jesus? Walk me through the exact process of completing the transaction.

[OrdinaryClay]

 

 

Faith in Christ, repentence of one's sins and the acceptance of Christ as the Son of God is all it takes.

 

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;  (Eph 2:8)

So, if that's it then I don't need to believe in the trinity or that Jesus is (a) God?

Also, how do I "accept" Jesus? Walk me through the exact process of completing the transaction.

Salvation is not an exercise in check-boxes. Evidence of salvation is a deep, deep love of Christ and all He represents. A person who loves their father would not call him a liar. They would trust what he says.

 

[JadedAtheist]

 

Salvation is not an exercise in check-boxes. Evidence of salvation is a deep, deep love of Christ and all He represents. A person who loves their father would not call him a liar. They would trust what he says.

So, Catholics, Mormons, JWs and other non-orthodox Christians (from the perspective of a protestant) would be saved in your rule book?

[mymistake]

A person who loves their father would not call him a liar. They would trust what he says.

 

An excellent point!  I've been meaning to ask you, are there any Bible verses that specifically say it is a sin for a father to kill his children?  Now remember, don't call your God a liar.

 

Thanks a bunch!

[midniterider]

Jesus answered him, "It is written, 'YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD AND SERVE HIM ONLY.'"  (Luk 4:8)

 

 

"If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."  (Jos 24:15)

 

 

 

Quoting from your book of fiction. "It is written..." So what. The bible is irrelevant. Jesus is irrelevant.

[midniterider]

 

OC, let Me say this a bit louder, because obviously you missed it the first time:

 

Your so-called "evidence" is not up to our standards.

Why does that matter.

 

>Kindly ask your alleged god to manifest physically in My study at its earliest convenience.  No more middlemen!

It seems He does not do tricks.

 

 

He doesnt do anything at all really.

[midniterider]

 

 

 

First, there is personal evidence. What I think you meant to say is that God does not perform tricks for you personally.

 

The evidence for God is a collection. I understand the arguments well so they are mine also.

I see you can't actually defend your views personally, that's fine. Most Christians can't.

 

Let's just have a little warm up match. Can you tell me your personal view on salvation? Do you believe in the penal substitution theory?

I believe salvation is through Christ, He died on the cross and rose again physically on the third day.

 

No, he didn't.

[midniterider]

 

 

 

I believe salvation is through Christ, He died on the cross and rose again physically on the third day.

Is that the only requirement one must have to be 'born again'?

Faith in Christ, repentence of one's sins and the acceptance of Christ as the Son of God is all it takes.

 

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;  (Eph 2:8)

 

 

Yaaay, no church and no tithing!  Woohoo!

[mymistake]

 

I believe salvation is through Christ, He died on the cross and rose again physically on the third day.

 

 

No, he didn't.

 

Oden promised that he would get rid of all the Frost Giants.  I don't see any Frost Giants around here. 

[midniterider]

 

 

 

Faith in Christ, repentence of one's sins and the acceptance of Christ as the Son of God is all it takes.

 

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;  (Eph 2:8)

So, if that's it then I don't need to believe in the trinity or that Jesus is (a) God?

Also, how do I "accept" Jesus? Walk me through the exact process of completing the transaction.

Salvation is not an exercise in check-boxes. Evidence of salvation is a deep, deep love of Christ and all He represents. A person who loves their father would not call him a liar. They would trust what he says.

 

 

Salvation is a deep deep brainwashing by Christians who encourage the prospective mark to believe that their emotions and imagination are god within, while discouraging the use of reason, logic and critical thinking. The trinity of fear, shame and guilt are the keys to successfully programming and maintaining good Christian behavior. 

[midniterider]

 

 

I believe salvation is through Christ, He died on the cross and rose again physically on the third day.

 

 

No, he didn't.

 

Oden promised that he would get rid of all the Frost Giants.  I don't see any Frost Giants around here. 

 

LoL.

[bornagainathiest]

 

 

Your time is running out, OC.

"Time and tide wait for no man."

 

Exactly!

 

Prepare to be swept away by a tide (tsunami, even) of evidence.

 

Here's the first part of it, Clay. 

 

This is the first indication of 'drawback' ...before the tsunami strikes. 

The water draws back from the shoreline, to return minutes later as a lethal wall of water that sweeps away everything in it's path.

 

In your case, a tsunami of evidence that you will either have to accept or be swept away by.

 

http://phl.upr.edu/press-releases  See, 'A New Habitable Zone.'

 

This is an up-to-date revision of Kasting's work, which forms the Hab Zone information Brownlee and Ward used for their Rare Earth hypothesis.  (I can quote you chapters and page numbers if you want.  ) That hypothesis is dying, even as you read this.  Soon you won't be able to say that you embrace science AND this hypothesis, because it will no longer agree with the data.

 

It will have been overturned and be as relevant as phlogiston theory.

 

BAA.

 

 

 

 

p.s.

You can still run if you want.  It's not too late!

[mcdaddy]

 

 

 

 

Faith in Christ, repentence of one's sins and the acceptance of Christ as the Son of God is all it takes.

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; (Eph 2:8)

So, if that's it then I don't need to believe in the trinity or that Jesus is (a) God?

Also, how do I "accept" Jesus? Walk me through the exact process of completing the transaction.

Salvation is not an exercise in check-boxes. Evidence of salvation is a deep, deep love of Christ and all He represents. A person who loves their father would not call him a liar. They would trust what he says.

I just have to interject that the facepalm induced by this post damn near fuckin' killed me.