Creepy married guy on Craig's list

[Dianka]

Right. But he doesn't seem like he wants to have sex with his wife. So I doubt it is just her ignoring his sexual needs. I don't think putting the blame on her is justified. Sure, some of it is definately her fault, but not because she's fat.

 

I blame both of them. This is why marrige is so intimidating. He says he loves his wife, and I don't doubt him. Both of them seemed to have given up.

[LloydDobler]

.................

My point is based on the idea that you can't really hide how you feel though. If someone is putting on a 100% show that their marriage is good, then yeah it could be better for the kids if they stay together. I'm just convinced now that nobody can do that.

..............

Prepare to be UNconvinced then, Lloyd. I've been in a loveless marriage for 14 years now. Doing so "for the sake of the children." No love involved, just financial necessity/stability. Divorce plays merry hell on everyone involved.

There can be complicating factors. There may be children involved. A plutonic relationship between parents is still probably better than a single parent. There may be money involved as well. He could stand to lose a fortune if he gets divorced.

Precisely. We married because I knocked up my then girlfriend, who would NOT get an abortion. ("Her body, her choice", but I was still forced to pay the consequences!) I could have been a dick and just abandoned her to deal with HER choice, but I didn't. Even though I did NOT love her. I was trying to "do the right thing."

 

I married her and we have made a home for our children (we had twins). I do the best that I can. We don't argue or fight. We share bank accounts. We even have sex once in a blue moon. To the casual observer, we have the Perfect Marriage. We don't.

 

We got divorced once. Yep. Back in '96. I got fed up with the whole deal and walked out of the marriage. But after nearly two years of all party's being emotionally and financially crippled (I had to support two separate housholds on ONE salary!), we decided that an amicable marriage worked better than an amicable divorce. So we re-wed. It's not a dream marriage, but we've made it work.

 

But as SOON as my boys are out and on their own, all bets are off!

 

I don't hate my wife. I don't cheat on my wife. I don't think I could. (Although I do DREAM about it.)

 

But before you put a halo on me, my fidelity is NOT borne out of nobility. I just don't feel like being bothered with ANOTHER relationship. I'm too lazy to cheat! Who knows what I'd do if my dream girl hunted me down and made herself available to me? As Chris Rock says, "A man is only as faithful as his options."

 

So there it is. More fuel for the fire. Trust me. Nothing is as easy, or as black and white as you'd like things to be. Sometimes people just have to do the best they can, with the hand they were dealt, and then live with their choices.

 

I just ask everyone to try not to be so harsh with the Judgments, okay?

All I'm saying is that if you're pretending to love your wife I believe your kids will see right through it. And if they don't see through it now, they'll figure it out someday. And that, emotionally, will be as damaging as a divorce. If they know you don't love each other and everything's on the up and up then you're not who I was talking about.

 

None of that really applies to mr craigslist up there who is obviously getting off on cheating and telling and blames his problem on his wife. I mean after your story, you wouldn't go around bragging to people how you cheat on your wife and oh you feel like shit but it's really her fault for getting fat and omg you're a horrible person, now would you? That guy wants to leave her. He's only with her out of gratitude for her being with him ten years ago. He thinks that by not leaving her he's not hurting her. I say bullshit.

 

On a side note, I'm divorced with a kid myself, so I'm not completely ignorant of what divorce does to people. I know about trying to make things work.

 

And I'm with Toe up there. I'm also a firm believer in keeping your promises, so if he agreed to be in a monogamous marriage he needs to either be monogamous or redefine(and/or end) the marriage.

[Vigile]

Just curious, who writes the rules for what a marriage or relationship SHOULD be like? Everyone is different, and every relationship is different. This is a free thinker's site and it occurs to me that a lot of the opinions here are just that, one person's opinion based on preconceived notions.

 

I'll probably get crucified for this, but I'm just throwing it out there.

[bob]

Over the past few years, my Ex cheated on me with both male and female coworkers. I blamed myself.

Finally, earlier this year, I cheated on her.

She committed these acts of infidelity because she was not getting her emotional needs met at home. I cheated because a beautiful woman had shown an interest in me, and it made me feel alive again, and I knew I wanted to keep that feeling, so I confessed to my wife.

Our 25 year marriage ended in divorce last month. We had spent half of our lives together.

[Checkmate]

All I'm saying is that if you're pretending to love your wife I believe your kids will see right through it. And if they don't see through it now, they'll figure it out someday. And that, emotionally, will be as damaging as a divorce. If they know you don't love each other and everything's on the up and up then you're not who I was talking about.

Correct. I'm NOT who you're talking about, because that's not my situation. There is no pretense going on around here. I don't show fake emotion/"love" for anyone or anything. We're just doing what's needed.

 

We're cool, Lloyd. I was only attempting to interject some balance into the conversation for anyone who believed that divorce is some wonderful cure-all for marriage. It isn't always. Most times divorce only makes things worse, (which it was and is for me) so it becomes a matter of choosing the lesser of two evils.

 

Which doesn't mean I condone adultery. I don't. It's just that, once again, paraphrasing the immortal words of sage comedian Chris Rock, "Not that I would do it -- but I understand."

Just curious, who writes the rules for what a marriage or relationship SHOULD be like? Everyone is different, and every relationship is different. This is a free thinker's site and it occurs to me that a lot of the opinions here are just that, one person's opinion based on preconceived notions.

 

I'll probably get crucified for this, but I'm just throwing it out there.

Agreed, my friend. But, so far, I think we've managed to keep this conversation rather civil. (Color me surprised!) I think we see that nothing is black and white, and that everyone will do what they think best. There is NO "Right" answer. Just answers that don't satisfy all parties. I.E. LIFE.

[LloydDobler]

Just curious, who writes the rules for what a marriage or relationship SHOULD be like? Everyone is different, and every relationship is different. This is a free thinker's site and it occurs to me that a lot of the opinions here are just that, one person's opinion based on preconceived notions.

 

I'll probably get crucified for this, but I'm just throwing it out there.

Nah, you're right, and we're all reasonable people here. There is a presumption of traditional marriage in this thread, but that's only because the standard has been set by the guy on craigslist. If he simply said 'hey check out my open relationship which my wife has no problem with' then yeah nobody here would probably give a shit.

 

It's the fact that culturally we're generally monogamous and so there are a lot of 'traditions' if you will, that go along with marriage. And most are judging him from that perspective.

 

But the actual answer to your question, as we all know, is the people in the marriage define what it should be like. I for one am never getting married again, I'll be very content to just be with someone, knowing they're there by choice, not by some committment or contract. There are people on this board with open marriages and poly marriages, and they are not judged, but that's mostly because they're healthy people with clear understandings and nobody's getting hurt.

[godlessgrrl]

Yeah. My objection isn't to messing around with anyone else per se, it's to the deception that goes along with it.

 

If you can be open and honest, dude, do whatever both of you agree on.

 

I say, if you gotta lie about something you're doing, you're doing something wrong.

[Dianka]

I'm sorry, but I do see this as her fault as well. They both made a promise, and god damn it is hard to keep a virtuous marrige until death as it is. If she is not happy with herself or her marrige, she has an obligation to make that known. Sitting in a corner with your depression widens the rift. Is she too selfish to acknowledge that? Just like having children, when we get married or are in a long-term relationship, we are supposed to think about the welfare of the relationship, we are not single anymore.

 

I decided to post this here for the very reaason that we can truthfully talk about this issue without hanging someone by their balls. IF this is bunk, really, who cares? For the one person who posts bullshit like this, there are 100 more people actually living this story, and I know a few of them.

 

I hope I don't come off as someone who judges people ignorantly, I have been the one who was hurt by infidelity. That's probably why I paid attention to this. I find stories like this threatening because only a few conditions need to be met for people to break their vows. I am amazed by how fast a relationship can descend into contempt. You figure that someone loves you like you love them. A rough patch hits, and you figure that the relationship is strong enough to withstand the stress, only to find that the other has been screwing around. It is a reality that I have lived with, why is there no justfication in talking about this, even if we are condemning? We are condemning a post, and not sticking firery torches up someone's arse.

[Purple]

Just curious, who writes the rules for what a marriage or relationship SHOULD be like? Everyone is different, and every relationship is different. This is a free thinker's site and it occurs to me that a lot of the opinions here are just that, one person's opinion based on preconceived notions.

 

I'll probably get crucified for this, but I'm just throwing it out there.

 

 

Some have already answered you, and no I am not going to crucify you. Who writes the rules for a marriage? the people IN the marriage. That is TWO people (or three or four, like whatever) not just one. He clearly says his wife does not know he is sleeping with another woman, and that he himself feels what he is doing is wrong. That is why it is wrong. You can talk about weather or not he is justified to cheat if she gains weight, but that fact is he is lying and deciving her, that's wrong, no matter his justifications. She is not being given the choice to accept the marriage as it now is or to move on, she is being decieved. In one place he says she is not having sex with him, but in another place says he is no longer attracted to her. I do not know about this woman, but I have no desire to have sex with people who find me unattractive, and hey I'm known for being a high sex drive kind of person.

I am also in an open marriage. I have a husband, and an Erus, and they both know. My husband is fine as long as the other person in my life is female, and when I met my Erus I was already married, she knew from the beginning who and what I was, and we were actaully friends first not looking to hook up. By being honest with my husband and honest with myself about who I am I am happy with my relationships, but I do not need the thrill of getting away with something, that this man seems to. That smacks me of immaturity.

[Checkmate]

...............

I am also in an open marriage. I have a husband, and an Erus, and they both know. My husband is fine as long as the other person in my life is female, and when I met my Erus I was already married, she knew from the beginning who and what I was, and we were actaully friends first not looking to hook up.

...............

Okay. I gotta ask. What's an "Erus"? Forgive me. I've lived a sheltered and uninformed life.

[Dhampir]

Alimony can blow dick and die both ways. Except in the case of Nick and Jessica. Jessica can afford it.

 

On one hand marriage does imply a contract of sorts. One of many reasons I won't ever engage in it. However, some would say that it is also a making official what is already there, if done properly.

How does one engage sexually a person with whom they can find no sexual interest? I mean, I could have the most intimate personal conversations with my best boy, but I ain't gonna marry him. Likewise, why do people think its wrong to not be attracted to someone with a huge hairy mole growing on the side of their face, just because that person has a 'good heart'? To any one who lords a disregard for physical characteristics that the majority finds unattractive, fuck you. You're not better people. You just don't have a problem with... missing teeth, or hairy moles, or morbid obesity, or muscularity, or what-have-you.

 

Though in this case, the timeline suggests other reasons for this dude's infidelity.

[Dianka]

Though in this case, the timeline suggests other reasons for this dude's infidelity.

 

I just simply think that both of these people gave up on one another when they vowed they never would.

[Guest JPD]

Happens everyday, all day long.

[Purple]

Okay. I gotta ask. What's an "Erus"? Forgive me. I've lived a sheltered and uninformed life.

 

Mr. Grinch "Erus" is a latin word meaning owner.

[Poonis]

I've had two girlfriends cheat on me. For some reason, i didn't really care except I wish they would have told me before hand. If they need extra love on the side, i just don't want a bug. As for myself, I've never cheated and never felt like it.

 

But, with that aside: I think what really needs to happen is to have a world-wide lick-suck-jerk-fondle-nibble-fist-bondage and fuck-a-thon. Just get a never ending train of all of us horny fucks just goin at it like the perpetual fucking-like-rabbits hormonal motherfuckers that we are. straight, gay, bisexual, group: everything and anything. You wanna get laid? Shit, theres a billion people who would fuck you in a blink. Fat and ugly? Maybe only 10 or 20 million want to fuck you, but you know what: you couldn't fuck em all because life is too short.

 

No more bitching and moaning cause you aren't gettin laid. In this deal, everyone would be married to everyone else; lots of love.

 

fuck yeah.

 

That's my kind of marriage. No sexual frustration that can't be taken care of.

 

 

PS: for some reason, this makes my sig picture a little more funny

[Dianka]

Poonis, I find myself starring at your sig for at least a few minutes every time I run into a post of yours. The only other sig pic that has done that for me is Crazy-Tigers. Dancing dancing dancing dancing...

[spamandham]

You can talk about weather or not he is justified to cheat if she gains weight, but that fact is he is lying and deciving her, that's wrong, no matter his justifications.

 

I guess I don't hold honesty on an insurmountable platform. The purpose of honesty is the same as any other ethic - it serves you. While losing trust can cause tremendous harm, and thus honesty is (usually) the best policy, there may be cases judged to be worth the risk. It's valid to consider exceptions to your ethics, unless of course you feel ethics are handed down from on high.

 

Suppose you are unwilling to stay within the confines of your monogamous relationship for whatever reasons, and so your option is either divorce or cheat and there are good reasons you don't want to divorce (children, money, hell, you might even still love your spouse but just can't stand the status quo). If you initiate divorce, your spouse is going to feel betrayed and severly hurt, and you'll end up divorced. If on the other hand cheating keeps you together (and studies show this is often the case), then you risk being caught. If you are caught, your spouse will feel betrayed and severly hurt, and you might end up divorced.

 

Why is it smarter to choose certain pain and consequences over potential pain and consequences?

[Purple]

You can talk about weather or not he is justified to cheat if she gains weight, but that fact is he is lying and deciving her, that's wrong, no matter his justifications.

 

I guess I don't hold honesty on an insurmountable platform. The purpose of honesty is the same as any other ethic - it serves you. While losing trust can cause tremendous harm, and thus honesty is (usually) the best policy, there may be cases judged to be worth the risk. It's valid to consider exceptions to your ethics, unless of course you feel ethics are handed down from on high.

 

Suppose you are unwilling to stay within the confines of your monogamous relationship for whatever reasons, and so your option is either divorce or cheat and there are good reasons you don't want to divorce (children, money, hell, you might even still love your spouse but just can't stand the status quo). If you initiate divorce, your spouse is going to feel betrayed and severly hurt, and you'll end up divorced. If on the other hand cheating keeps you together (and studies show this is often the case), then you risk being caught. If you are caught, your spouse will feel betrayed and severly hurt, and you might end up divorced.

 

Why is it smarter to choose certain pain and consequences over potential pain and consequences?

 

I do not know that I believe honesty is ALWAYS the best policy. Here though, this man says what he is doing is wrong, and his lie engages his wife in actions she would probably not choose to be involved in. I believe honesty is the best policy where sex is involved. Now before you bring it up, if you are atractred to a woman, but you don't like the celulite on her thighs, no I do not believe you need to let her know that. Within this though it is not a tradition that dictates that he be monogomous, he agreed to be when he married her. This is not a relationship where she is his long term girlfriend they never spoke of monogomy, it was assumed and hes jsut not disclosing that he is now involved with someone else.

With sex so many things can happen. This other woman could get pergnant, and as someone else brought up he could bring home a disease. He says he loves his wife, but then says she is fat and withdrawn and only watches Animal Planet and eats ice cream. If someone I loved withdrew I'd encourage them to see a doctor, if they stopped doing the things that made them happy, including sex, and started eating I'd do a little more then encorage them to see a doctor. I would not use it as an excuse to lie to them, and do something I knew would be hurtful to them. Is depression an actual illness? If so I stand by what I said, her weight gain is as good an excuse to lie and step out on her as him doing so if she were going through chemo and went bald.

[Checkmate]

Okay. I gotta ask. What's an "Erus"? Forgive me. I've lived a sheltered and uninformed life.

 

Mr. Grinch "Erus" is a latin word meaning owner.

Hmm. OK. So you've a husband and an owner? In the immortal words of Mr. Spock -- "Fascinating." I love reading of people who do their own thing, AND it works. I wish that we all had such fortune.

 

Sigh. I will now return to crying in my chocolate milk.

[Vigile]

Who writes the rules for a marriage? the people IN the marriage. That is TWO people (or three or four, like whatever) not just one. He clearly says his wife does not know he is sleeping with another woman, and that he himself feels what he is doing is wrong.

 

But that's just it, it's between the two of them. Why are we sitting here on an internet forum judging a relationship we have no stake in and no say in? By what standards are we sitting in judgment of him? The bible? I know, we are basing it on cultural preferences and community standards. But really, what he's doing isn't against the law and just to play devil's advocate, perhaps he has no choice but to lie about the situation. Perhaps divorce isn't what he or his wife wants but at the same time he needs to have his needs fulfilled. Lying to her keeps the area of divorce from being broached and lets him get his needs met. Despite what is commonly accepted as truth, honesty is not always the foundation upon which relationships are built. Different people have different needs.

 

All I'm saying is live and let live, he's not a child molester and he's not the spouse of anyone here as far as I can tell.

 

And for the record, I've never cheated on my wife. Again, I'm just trying to look at this from another perspective.

 

I just simply think that both of these people gave up on one another when they vowed they never would.

 

Life happens, people change, needs evolve.

 

I guess I don't hold honesty on an insurmountable platform. The purpose of honesty is the same as any other ethic - it serves you. While losing trust can cause tremendous harm, and thus honesty is (usually) the best policy, there may be cases judged to be worth the risk. It's valid to consider exceptions to your ethics, unless of course you feel ethics are handed down from on high.

 

Suppose you are unwilling to stay within the confines of your monogamous relationship for whatever reasons, and so your option is either divorce or cheat and there are good reasons you don't want to divorce (children, money, hell, you might even still love your spouse but just can't stand the status quo). If you initiate divorce, your spouse is going to feel betrayed and severly hurt, and you'll end up divorced. If on the other hand cheating keeps you together (and studies show this is often the case), then you risk being caught. If you are caught, your spouse will feel betrayed and severly hurt, and you might end up divorced.

 

Why is it smarter to choose certain pain and consequences over potential pain and consequences?

 

You feel me. Well put.

[Amethyst]

This was supposed to be on Craigslist, right? How do we know that someone didn't make it up for the fun of it? We can't believe everything people say online. For all we know, he was trolling for attention.

[Dianka]

I just simply think that both of these people gave up on one another when they vowed they never would.

 

Life happens, people change, needs evolve.

 

 

I can't imagine that people get married thinking they will be together and no one will change, love will always bring us together tra lala lala....

 

I wouldn't write him off as the bad one for fucking around, and I don't blame the situation on her for porking up. They are both just living the consequences of being so passive with their marrige.

[spamandham]

I do not know that I believe honesty is ALWAYS the best policy. Here though, this man says what he is doing is wrong, and his lie engages his wife in actions she would probably not choose to be involved in.

 

We're sort of jumping back and forth. There's the discussion about this particular case (which is what started the thread), and then the discussion about cheating in general. I was really addressing the latter.

 

To claim to love someone and simultaneously laugh behind their back about cheating on them certainly seems to be inconsistent.

[godlessgrrl]

Is depression an actual illness? <snippage involved here>

 

For the record, yes it is. I have it. It isn't just psychological, either, there are physical symptoms as well, like weight gain, sleep disturbances, and aches and pains (for some folks).

 

It can take awhile, but it's very treatable. Thank Hygeia for SSRI's.

[Dianka]

Is depression an actual illness? <snippage involved here>

 

For the record, yes it is. I have it. It isn't just psychological, either, there are physical symptoms as well, like weight gain, sleep disturbances, and aches and pains (for some folks).

 

It can take awhile, but it's very treatable. Thank Hygeia for SSRI's.

 

I can't imagine that every person who gains weight and stops having sex with their spouse is clinically depressed. This all has been going on for 7 years. Clinical depression would have most likely manifested into a bigger problem if that was her problem - that's the general past of depression. It is degenerative in it's own right.