white_raven23 Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 You know, The first time I heard the word -Apologist- I honestly felt an amazing bloom of hope. I did indeed. I thought there were Christian folks who were actually "apologizing" for the mass of inconsistancies and hypocracies. I thought there were Christians openly admitting their churches were clique-y and piously snotty, and these people had become apologists trying to actually IMPROVE the situation and earn back jaded ex-members by ACTUALLY ADMITTING THE PROBLEM. Yeah. That's what I thought. Then upon reading the definition, I learned that the construction of a word and it's actual meaning could be completely flip-flopped and opposite. Much like their arguments compared to their behavior.....so I guess if your inconsistant all the way around and talk out both sides of your face alternately praising god, and condemning others to hell in the same breath, you're an apologist. What a waste of what could have been a truly great word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reach Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 White Raven, Maybe this will help you feel just a little bit better. APOL'OGY, n. [Gr. discourse.] An excuse; something said or written in defense or extenuation of what appears to others wrong, or unjustifiable; or of what may be liable to disapprobation. It may be an extenuation of what is not perfectly justifiable, or a vindication of what is or may be disapproved, but which the apologist deems to be right. A man makes an apology for not fulfilling an engagement, or for publishing a pamphlet. An apology then is a reason or reasons assigned for what is wrong or may appear to be wrong, and it may be either an extenuation or a justification of something that is or may be censured, by those who are not acquainted with the reasons. It's better than nothing. Welcome to Ex-C! Reach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Java Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 You know, The first time I heard the word -Apologist- I honestly felt an amazing bloom of hope. I did indeed. I thought there were Christian folks who were actually "apologizing" for the mass of inconsistancies and hypocracies. I thought there were Christians openly admitting their churches were clique-y and piously snotty, and these people had become apologists trying to actually IMPROVE the situation and earn back jaded ex-members by ACTUALLY ADMITTING THE PROBLEM. Yeah. That's what I thought. Then upon reading the definition, I learned that the construction of a word and it's actual meaning could be completely flip-flopped and opposite. Much like their arguments compared to their behavior.....so I guess if your inconsistant all the way around and talk out both sides of your face alternately praising god, and condemning others to hell in the same breath, you're an apologist. What a waste of what could have been a truly great word. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ...woah. That's weird, because I did the exact same thing. "Apologists? People actualy apologizing for the assholes and trying to build bridges with other faiths? Damn, maybe I didn't look at that wrong!" Aaand then I stayed here a bit longer, and while Reach-auntie before she turned was very nice especially, the links I followed... Ditto on the waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panther Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 APOL'OGY, n. [Gr. discourse.] An excuse; something said or written in defense or extenuation of what appears to others wrong, or unjustifiable; or of what may be liable to disapprobation. It may be an extenuation of what is not perfectly justifiable, or a vindication of what is or may be disapproved, but which the apologist deems to be right. A man makes an apology for not fulfilling an engagement, or for publishing a pamphlet. An apology then is a reason or reasons assigned for what is wrong or may appear to be wrong, and it may be either an extenuation or a justification of something that is or may be censured, by those who are not acquainted with the reasons. Great def. Reach! You know what struck me when I was a christian....when I first learned of that word, I was also wondering, "what does THAT mean?" LOL, after I realized, my second thought was....there is sure a lot of "splaining" going on!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reach Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 I realize I'm stating the obvious but the quality of the typical visiting apologist that we often have to endure here is not what I'd hoped for either. It's what I'm beginning to expect Christianity is turning out these days, the shallow or empty-headed non-thinker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 I thought the same thing first time I heard of it.....how silly I was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustmouse Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 That's true Reach.. I have been priviledged to know some people, that when on the subject of apologetics, are clear minded (as much as one can be..), semi-rational beings that are willing to concede that what they believe may not be right but they choose to believe it anyway, and can explain - without resorting to attacks - what they believe and why. Those sorts of Christians truly are a breath of fresh air compared to the majority, for it seems the majority, when push comes to shove, truly are empty-headed non-thinkers, as you said. They just believe what they are fed and don't have the courage to explore and understand of their own accord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted May 3, 2005 Author Share Posted May 3, 2005 I have to admit, I have difficulty respecting anyone who just flat refuses to even try to understand another person's point of view. To willfully deafen and blind themselves rather than attempt to understand why we've all gone where we have. Surly they have to wonder why anyone would abandon "The Truth" after all. But do they begin asking questions? Or trying to find a reason why themselves if only for the purpose of understanding? No. It's pretty hard to respect that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest digger Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 And I thought I was alone in the feeling dumb area Most modern apologists are incapable of putting a simple argument together without recourse either to the bible which they don't understand correctly or insults. I heard a great example today over at InfidelGuy which was a 2-hour debate on evolution vs. creationism. If you haven't heard it head on over and listen. I learnt a lot of good science and really disturned my colleagues at work who had no idea what I was laughing at. Get it here It's "Did Humans Evolve From Other Species?" a bit down the page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryten Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 I realize I'm stating the obvious but the quality of the typical visiting apologist that we often have to endure here is not what I'd hoped for either. It's what I'm beginning to expect Christianity is turning out these days, the shallow or empty-headed non-thinker. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Christian apologists are severely crippled by a few factors such as the truth, evidence, and history. They will never be able to come up with evidence that Jesus of The Gospels actually existed. They are STUCK with obvious errors and contradictions in their holy book that only a complete re-write can remedy. Science never backs them up, but instead usually destroys their "god-given truths" one by one-- such as the earth-centric universe, etc. By their fruits you shall know them, and the fruits of the Christian/Catholic church have historically stunk up the earth and are not much better today (e.g. priests & young boys; clinic bombings; intolerance). They ignore real evidence, discourage critical thinking, and encourage blind faith. They soak up "miracle" testimonies, support each other in ignorance, and resort to illogical behavior such as rejecting sound reason or evidence because the bearer "must have sin in his life" or "be running from God" or "be deceived". They read books by other apologists and ignore the critics who tear them to shreds. They only seek proof and evidence to intellectually justify their belief system, and when that fails, it must be rejected or rationalized. The emotional and social costs are usually too great to just admit they are wrong on any major point. But given time, exposure to the truth, exchange of ideas (or insults) with non-believers, and the lack of real evidence from within the church will lead many to flush Xianity. Their powers are weak. Their arguments are old and easily defeated. All they can do is try them on the young and unsuspecting and gullible-- which (unfortunately) occasionally works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JP1283 Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 I thought that too! I thought I was the only one! Then I found out what an apologist really was..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlinfmct87 Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 I do wonder where the name came from... was it an atheist name that stuck? Merlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 It's what I'm beginning to expect Christianity is turning out these days, the shallow or empty-headed non-thinker. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I actually agree with this. What's happening is, alot is them are listening to others instead of following the Bible. They feel like they must follow a person instead of God. (oh goodness, did I just go into the Debating section ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JP1283 Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 I actually agree with this. What's happening is, alot is them are listening to others instead of following the Bible. They feel like they must follow a person instead of God.(oh goodness, did I just go into the Debating section ) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sure did. Welcome to the forum, midnight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Sure did. Welcome to the forum, midnight! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks JP!! I'm probably in for it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JP1283 Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Thanks JP!! I'm probably in for it now. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Do be careful of what you say or preach...there will be an onslaught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Do be careful of what you say or preach...there will be an onslaught. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I usually don't preach, that's not me. But I'll still be careful, that's why you won't see me in this area much unless I'm fully armed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JP1283 Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 I usually don't preach, that's not me. But I'll still be careful, that's why you won't see me in this area much unless I'm fully armed <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Are you friends with Ratioann by chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ratioann Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 No, we don't know each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JP1283 Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 No, we don't know each other. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> For some reason I thought you two might be friends from another forum or something. My mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Are you friends with Ratioann by chance? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Nope. But nice to meet you Ratioann. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ratioann Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Likewise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy-tiger Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 W00T... Fresh meat... Just kidding Welcome to the forums, both of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zfunkman Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 I actually agree with this. What's happening is, alot is them are listening to others instead of following the Bible. They feel like they must follow a person instead of God.(oh goodness, did I just go into the Debating section ) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Actually, I think they follow the bible pretty well. I've read the bible and its full of hate, violence, deception and flat out lies. A "loving" god who sends a vast majority of the all the people who have ever lived on this Earth to suffer in Hell for eternity? A god who upholds the institution of slavery(slavery is and always has been Evil). A god who orders the murder of women and children. A god who acts out violence from frustration. All I've ever heard from xtians most of my life was how "loving" god & jesus are. No xtians ever told me about all the terrible atrocities in the bible. No wonder there are so many xtian "appoligists". You've got to do something if you believe in this hate filled doomsday death cult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JP1283 Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Actually, I think they follow the bible pretty well. I've read the bible and its full of hate, violence, deception and flat out lies. A "loving" god who sends a vast majority of the all the people who have ever lived on this Earth to suffer in Hell for eternity? A god who upholds the institution of slavery(slavery is and always has been Evil). A god who orders the murder of women and children. A god who acts out violence from frustration. All I've ever heard from xtians most of my life was how "loving" god & jesus are. No xtians ever told me about all the terrible atrocities in the bible. No wonder there are so many xtian "appoligists". You've got to do something if you believe in this hate filled doomsday death cult. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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