Thought2Much Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 I believe that all of the creation and life I see tells me there is a God. I guess we disagree. Well one thing is certain. It has been demonstrated that the Bible has no clear message. It is a collection of stories that disagree with each other. Not to me. Try it again. Then it's either quite clear that you haven't actually read the thing, or that you have read it and you're in complete denial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 @IronHorse Can I ask a question then? If we are all born into this world with Sin then Jesus was a Sinner? Therefore Jesus was not God as god apparently despises Sin? If God does not despise sin - Then what is the point of Jesus? Why did God allow the concept of Evil to exist? Surely an all Loving God would not allow a creation that he loved to Fail? -Jesus was born of a virgin. God was the father, not a man. -Why do you think God does not despise sin? -Jesus took the punishment for all sin. -Evil is not a concept. Its real. -God allowed us freedom. If you created living beings, would you deny them freedom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest afireinside Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Back to the freedom issue again! And I say there's no free will in Heaven You say yeah there is I say there can't be or we may lose our sinlessness You say we can choose but not sin I then get angry and say "why the fuck did he allow it on earth then?!!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted April 25, 2014 Author Share Posted April 25, 2014 Back to the freedom issue again! And I say there's no free will in Heaven You say yeah there is I say there can't be or we may lose our sinlessness You say we can choose but not sin I then get angry and say "why the fuck did he allow it on earth then?!!!" Trying to reason with a fundie is like trying to put a queen sized sheet on a king sized bed. Sure you can make one corner fit but when you try to make another corner fit the first one comes undone. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest afireinside Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Back to the freedom issue again! And I say there's no free will in Heaven You say yeah there is I say there can't be or we may lose our sinlessness You say we can choose but not sin I then get angry and say "why the fuck did he allow it on earth then?!!!" Trying to reason with a fundie is like trying to put a queen sized sheet on a king sized bed. Sure you can make one corner fit but when you try to make another corner fit the first one comes undone. Haaaaaaate that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Back to the freedom issue again! And I say there's no free will in Heaven You say yeah there is I say there can't be or we may lose our sinlessness You say we can choose but not sin I then get angry and say "why the fuck did he allow it on earth then?!!!" What do you think God should have done? Create beings that were robots programmed to do as He said? Are allow freedom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest afireinside Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 We've had this discussion 3 times now mate. I was playing the piano last time remember? You said there's free will in Heaven, I argued it was only a matter of time before we messed up like Satan. The only way Heaven could work is to make us praise robots(there's probably such a thing in Southern US toyshops). If he doesn't programme us we will fall in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 @IronHorse Can I ask a question then? If we are all born into this world with Sin then Jesus was a Sinner? Therefore Jesus was not God as god apparently despises Sin? If God does not despise sin - Then what is the point of Jesus? Why did God allow the concept of Evil to exist? Surely an all Loving God would not allow a creation that he loved to Fail? -Jesus was born of a virgin. God was the father, not a man. -Why do you think God does not despise sin? -Jesus took the punishment for all sin. -Evil is not a concept. Its real. -God allowed us freedom. If you created living beings, would you deny them freedom? Ok so even if I accept that god impregnated Mary, that still doesn't account for the fact that the sin nature would have come from Mary. Presumably women are humans and if humans are born into sin then Mary was too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest afireinside Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Something about blood in the womb is all from the Y chromosome or something. Pure blood. Ok so even if that's true, Jesus still COMMITTED sin so it makes him a sinner by action if not by inheritence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtify Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 @IronHorse Can I ask a question then? If we are all born into this world with Sin then Jesus was a Sinner? Therefore Jesus was not God as god apparently despises Sin? If God does not despise sin - Then what is the point of Jesus? Why did God allow the concept of Evil to exist? Surely an all Loving God would not allow a creation that he loved to Fail? -Jesus was born of a virgin. God was the father, not a man. -Why do you think God does not despise sin? -Jesus took the punishment for all sin. -Evil is not a concept. Its real. -God allowed us freedom. If you created living beings, would you deny them freedom? Ok so even if I accept that god impregnated Mary, that still doesn't account for the fact that the sin nature would have come from Mary. Presumably women are humans and if humans are born into sin then Mary was too? Yeah, like coming from a woman's vagina has to be somewhat of a sin in the bible. It would atleast make him "unclean". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest afireinside Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 @IronHorse Can I ask a question then? If we are all born into this world with Sin then Jesus was a Sinner? Therefore Jesus was not God as god apparently despises Sin? If God does not despise sin - Then what is the point of Jesus? Why did God allow the concept of Evil to exist? Surely an all Loving God would not allow a creation that he loved to Fail? -Jesus was born of a virgin. God was the father, not a man. -Why do you think God does not despise sin? -Jesus took the punishment for all sin. -Evil is not a concept. Its real. -God allowed us freedom. If you created living beings, would you deny them freedom? Ok so even if I accept that god impregnated Mary, that still doesn't account for the fact that the sin nature would have come from Mary. Presumably women are humans and if humans are born into sin then Mary was too? A lot of religious men through the ages would argue women are not human, merely cum dumpsters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtify Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 @IronHorse Can I ask a question then? If we are all born into this world with Sin then Jesus was a Sinner? Therefore Jesus was not God as god apparently despises Sin? If God does not despise sin - Then what is the point of Jesus? Why did God allow the concept of Evil to exist? Surely an all Loving God would not allow a creation that he loved to Fail? -Jesus was born of a virgin. God was the father, not a man. -Why do you think God does not despise sin? -Jesus took the punishment for all sin. -Evil is not a concept. Its real. -God allowed us freedom. If you created living beings, would you deny them freedom? Ok so even if I accept that god impregnated Mary, that still doesn't account for the fact that the sin nature would have come from Mary. Presumably women are humans and if humans are born into sin then Mary was too? A lot of religious men through the ages would argue women are not human, merely cum dumpsters. A lot of religious men through the ages were douchebags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest afireinside Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 And still are generally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Something about blood in the womb is all from the Y chromosome or something. Pure blood. Ok so even if that's true, Jesus still COMMITTED sin so it makes him a sinner by action if not by inheritence. The blood that crosses the placenta and circulates around the fetus' body is the mother's blood. The blood that makes the endometrium (lining of the womb) is also the mother's blood. I am a bit confused about the X and Y chromosomes, can you explain what you mean? I don't want IH to have a way to wriggle out of this one. Presuming he deigns to respond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest afireinside Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 I am quoting a sermon I heard recently. He stated that in some scientific journal there was an article about how the developing child has no blood connection to the mother or something along those lines. My point is whether or not Jesus was born after man or God is irrelevant, he still sinned so therefore is not sinless as believers accept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 I am quoting a sermon I heard recently. He stated that in some scientific journal there was an article about how the developing child has no blood connection to the mother or something along those lines. My point is whether or not Jesus was born after man or God is irrelevant, he still sinned so therefore is not sinless as believers accept. Ok thanks. Remind me to insist on having a secular doctor next time I'm in hospital. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest afireinside Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 I am quoting a sermon I heard recently. He stated that in some scientific journal there was an article about how the developing child has no blood connection to the mother or something along those lines. My point is whether or not Jesus was born after man or God is irrelevant, he still sinned so therefore is not sinless as believers accept. Ok thanks. Remind me to insist on having a secular doctor next time I'm in hospital. ;-) Have you heard of Dr Gorringe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 I am quoting a sermon I heard recently. He stated that in some scientific journal there was an article about how the developing child has no blood connection to the mother or something along those lines. My point is whether or not Jesus was born after man or God is irrelevant, he still sinned so therefore is not sinless as believers accept.Ok thanks. Remind me to insist on having a secular doctor next time I'm in hospital. ;-) Have you heard of Dr Gorringe? I hadn't so I googled him and read his entry on this site: http://www.quackwatch.org/index.html.%C2'> Thanks for that, it was a good site to find. Spirituality in healthcare is one of my pet hates. Religion has contributed nothing of value to medicine, and actively thwarts its progress. Religion poisons everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted April 25, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted April 25, 2014 Back to the freedom issue again! And I say there's no free will in Heaven You say yeah there is I say there can't be or we may lose our sinlessness You say we can choose but not sin I then get angry and say "why the fuck did he allow it on earth then?!!!" What do you think God should have done? Create beings that were robots programmed to do as He said? Are allow freedom? Again, TinPony, not creating evil in the first place would have been a good place for god to start. Why do you think god created evil, TinPony? Do you think he did it just so good little boys like you could go to heaven and a hellbilly like me could burn in the fiery lake? Or do you think he enjoys it when little girls are sold into sexual slavery? Does he derive some sort of perverse pleasure out of watching the suffering in this world like you do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest afireinside Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 There was nothing one minute. God made ALL of this(according to Christianity) There was no evil, no sin, no desires. God made them, we were born into them. Thanks God, you really stitched us up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 @IronHorse Can I ask a question then? If we are all born into this world with Sin then Jesus was a Sinner? Therefore Jesus was not God as god apparently despises Sin? If God does not despise sin - Then what is the point of Jesus? Why did God allow the concept of Evil to exist? Surely an all Loving God would not allow a creation that he loved to Fail? -Jesus was born of a virgin. God was the father, not a man. -Why do you think God does not despise sin? -Jesus took the punishment for all sin. -Evil is not a concept. Its real. -God allowed us freedom. If you created living beings, would you deny them freedom? What the hell's wrong with you, Ironhorse? You give me your word that you'll answer all the PENDING questions put to you, then you go and ask some more! Answer the outstanding, pending, overdue questions first! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Back to the freedom issue again! And I say there's no free will in Heaven You say yeah there is I say there can't be or we may lose our sinlessness You say we can choose but not sin I then get angry and say "why the fuck did he allow it on earth then?!!!" What do you think God should have done? Create beings that were robots programmed to do as He said? Are allow freedom? Live up to you word, Ironhorse! Stop asking fresh questions, go back thru the threads you've been active in, find the questions you haven't answered and answer them FIRST, before replying to any other posts or putting any further questions to anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted April 25, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted April 25, 2014 @IronHorse Can I ask a question then? If we are all born into this world with Sin then Jesus was a Sinner? Therefore Jesus was not God as god apparently despises Sin? If God does not despise sin - Then what is the point of Jesus? Why did God allow the concept of Evil to exist? Surely an all Loving God would not allow a creation that he loved to Fail? -Jesus was born of a virgin. God was the father, not a man. -Why do you think God does not despise sin? -Jesus took the punishment for all sin. -Evil is not a concept. Its real. -God allowed us freedom. If you created living beings, would you deny them freedom? What the hell's wrong with you, Ironhorse? You give me your word that you'll answer all the PENDING questions put to you, then you go and ask some more! Answer the outstanding, pending, overdue questions first! Didn't you get the memo, BAA? Apparently, TinPony is making the claim that we haven't answered his question "What would you have god do about evil?" He probably feels like he doesn't have to answer any of our questions until we have answered just one of his questions several thousand times. He's even asked us, yet again, to compile a list of the threads/posts in which this question has been answered, despite that list already having been created and provided for him. He's not going to answer our questions because he doesn't know how; he's just stalling for time in the hopes of ensnaring one or two lurkers back into the slavery of the christian religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 @IronHorse Can I ask a question then? If we are all born into this world with Sin then Jesus was a Sinner? Therefore Jesus was not God as god apparently despises Sin? If God does not despise sin - Then what is the point of Jesus? Why did God allow the concept of Evil to exist? Surely an all Loving God would not allow a creation that he loved to Fail? -Jesus was born of a virgin. God was the father, not a man. -Why do you think God does not despise sin? -Jesus took the punishment for all sin. -Evil is not a concept. Its real. -God allowed us freedom. If you created living beings, would you deny them freedom? What the hell's wrong with you, Ironhorse? You give me your word that you'll answer all the PENDING questions put to you, then you go and ask some more! Answer the outstanding, pending, overdue questions first! Didn't you get the memo, BAA? Apparently, TinPony is making the claim that we haven't answered his question "What would you have god do about evil?" He probably feels like he doesn't have to answer any of our questions until we have answered just one of his questions several thousand times. He's even asked us, yet again, to compile a list of the threads/posts in which this question has been answered, despite that list already having been created and provided for him. He's not going to answer our questions because he doesn't know how; he's just stalling for time in the hopes of ensnaring one or two lurkers back into the slavery of the christian religion. If that's so Prof... If he's got no intention of answering, then why did he give me his word that he'd try and answer ALL of the outstanding questions? Isn't that somewhat like acting in bad faith? Your thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted April 25, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted April 25, 2014 @IronHorse Can I ask a question then? If we are all born into this world with Sin then Jesus was a Sinner? Therefore Jesus was not God as god apparently despises Sin? If God does not despise sin - Then what is the point of Jesus? Why did God allow the concept of Evil to exist? Surely an all Loving God would not allow a creation that he loved to Fail? -Jesus was born of a virgin. God was the father, not a man. -Why do you think God does not despise sin? -Jesus took the punishment for all sin. -Evil is not a concept. Its real. -God allowed us freedom. If you created living beings, would you deny them freedom? What the hell's wrong with you, Ironhorse? You give me your word that you'll answer all the PENDING questions put to you, then you go and ask some more! Answer the outstanding, pending, overdue questions first! Didn't you get the memo, BAA? Apparently, TinPony is making the claim that we haven't answered his question "What would you have god do about evil?" He probably feels like he doesn't have to answer any of our questions until we have answered just one of his questions several thousand times. He's even asked us, yet again, to compile a list of the threads/posts in which this question has been answered, despite that list already having been created and provided for him. He's not going to answer our questions because he doesn't know how; he's just stalling for time in the hopes of ensnaring one or two lurkers back into the slavery of the christian religion. If that's so Prof... If he's got no intention of answering, then why did he give me his word that he'd try and answer ALL of the outstanding questions? Isn't that somewhat like acting in bad faith? Your thoughts? I've already accused him of lying because he denied that his question had been answered. I think the same charge would apply in this case as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts