ironhorse Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 I don't know the answer to that one. I'm not God. That was a writers attempt to put what happen on the cross in words. I think what Jesus experienced on the cross is way beyond my comprehension. ironhorse\ Not only are you not god; the most critical points about your god you can't explain. You have no idea why god would do many things described in the bible that are clearly the antithesis of what god should do. These acts of god are malicious, cruel beyond measure, mean, painful, unfair, hateful, discriminatory, egregious, groundless, disgusting and every other negative adjective you can think of. But you love him. Why? Because he will save you. It's about you. Might makes right as long as you are saved. You take the bible that if says you believe in his son you will be saved. Yet this book also describes these horrible acts against people, including babies, for gawd's sake. He orders the killing of every person and animals of people in a foreign land. But, hey, you're saved, that's what counts. Why would elect to believe in a god who did all those egregious acts which are set forth in the same source for your salvation? Why did this not cause you to doubt? When you decided to believe did you give any thought to the kind god you were selecting? Don't you think god owes you an explanation for his evil acts. Why do you believe in god without such an explanation? If another god promised you salvation, plus 70 plus virgins why would you accept the bible god? All of these horrible deeds with no explanation. Yet you believe based upon "faith", which means based upon nothing. It makes no sense at all. bill What else can I say? I have tried to offer explanations about these Old Testament passages. What I post is dismissed. If I post a link...it's dismissed. I guess we just view the Bible differently. You read it and see a god of horrible deeds. I read it and see a God of incredible love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubtingNate Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 I read it and see a God of incredible love. Seems like the only way to do this is to cherry pick some passages and ignore the other ones. That's why lots of us have problems with some of your assertions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 I read it and see a God of incredible love. Seems like the only way to do this is to cherry pick some passages and ignore the other ones. That's why lots of us have problems with some of your assertions. The cherry picking seems to work both ways here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 I read it and see a God of incredible love. Seems like the only way to do this is to cherry pick some passages and ignore the other ones. That's why lots of us have problems with some of your assertions. The cherry picking seems to work both ways here. Nope. Somebody cherry picking the Bible will only talk about a tiny portion of the Bible; the select sections that support a lopsided view. Christians do that. However seeing all the Bible - the good with the bad is not cherry picking. To look at the whole Bible supports the view that the Bible is a mess that is all over the place. It's not inspired by any all-whatever deity. It is a book that has a few nobel ideas mixed with some horrible ones, selfish ones, barbaric ones, dishonest ones. It's a mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubtingNate Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 I read it and see a God of incredible love. Seems like the only way to do this is to cherry pick some passages and ignore the other ones. That's why lots of us have problems with some of your assertions. The cherry picking seems to work both ways here. I disagree.. I'm well versed in Scripture and fully aware of these 'God-is-love' verses you refer to. They come from different authors, different time periods and reflect different agendas. Most of the Old Testament is about legitimizing a monarchy or priesthood and demonizing their opponents. There's no good way to unify all these passages into one definitive teaching about God, unless you just choose to ignore the verses that don't support it. Simply stating "I read it and see this thing" does not change any of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mydisplayname Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 I read it and see a God of incredible love. Seems like the only way to do this is to cherry pick some passages and ignore the other ones. That's why lots of us have problems with some of your assertions. The cherry picking seems to work both ways here. In our case it's not cherry picking. We know of the good stuff in the bible, but why would we discuss this with you. I think we all agree murder is bad. There's no need to discuss that. That's a good commandment that god made. Our problem is that god murders so many people. Why won't he follow his own commandment? We're stating the stuff that we don't agree upon. What would the point be in discussing the things we do agree upon. That's not cherry picking. Ironhorse, dude, you seem to forget we were Christians as well. We have been in your shoes. We know all about the good stuff because that is all that is being preached and that is what we loved about Christianity and god. I got married in a church because I wanted my wedding to be blessed by god. I had my child baptised because I wanted god to be in his life. When I prayed I prayed that god look after my family. I'm first an ex-Christian and then an Atheist. I know my bible and I know my ability to ignore things because it would cast doubt. We're not cherry picking. We're stating the bad stuff in the bible that caused some of us to start doubting the truth. For me it's not about debating you because I'm trying to convince you of anything. This isn't even about you. It's about truth. I don't walk from house to house every Sunday spreading my unbelief, but I do engage Christians on an ex-Christian website so that those with doubts, who come here from their own choosing, can hear the other side of the argument. Not from some famous scientist or author but from normal people with normal problems just like them. Please continue ignoring logic, reason and proof on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger26 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 When jesus specifically commanded the deaths of infants for one. Care to explain that to me? That's one big fucking warning sign that says "don't vote for that guy!" Remember, he and his father are "one." So that means he was there and he commanded that. http://www.reasonablefaith.org/slaughter-of-the-canaanites# Where was God for the cananites. Why didn't he guide them, teach them, direct them in good way, how to live well...lilke a good parent would do. He left them as "orphans" and then punished them for not being good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 I don't know the answer to that one. I'm not God. That was a writers attempt to put what happen on the cross in words. I think what Jesus experienced on the cross is way beyond my comprehension. ironhorse\ Not only are you not god; the most critical points about your god you can't explain. You have no idea why god would do many things described in the bible that are clearly the antithesis of what god should do. These acts of god are malicious, cruel beyond measure, mean, painful, unfair, hateful, discriminatory, egregious, groundless, disgusting and every other negative adjective you can think of. But you love him. Why? Because he will save you. It's about you. Might makes right as long as you are saved. You take the bible that if says you believe in his son you will be saved. Yet this book also describes these horrible acts against people, including babies, for gawd's sake. He orders the killing of every person and animals of people in a foreign land. But, hey, you're saved, that's what counts. Why would elect to believe in a god who did all those egregious acts which are set forth in the same source for your salvation? Why did this not cause you to doubt? When you decided to believe did you give any thought to the kind god you were selecting? Don't you think god owes you an explanation for his evil acts. Why do you believe in god without such an explanation? If another god promised you salvation, plus 70 plus virgins why would you accept the bible god? All of these horrible deeds with no explanation. Yet you believe based upon "faith", which means based upon nothing. It makes no sense at all. bill What else can I say? I have tried to offer explanations about these Old Testament passages. What I post is dismissed. If I post a link...it's dismissed. I guess we just view the Bible differently. You read it and see a god of horrible deeds. I read it and see a God of incredible love. For God so flooded loved the whole world..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Hitler really was a nice guy...people just always cherry pick those last few years of his life when he ordered the extermination of 6 million Jews.... God really is a god of incredible love...people just cherry pick things in the bible like the great flood where God kills everyone...or puts the curse of original sin on everyone. It seems that pointing out heinous crimes against humanity isn't necessarily cherry picking. But if you prefer to look at it that way, that's up to you. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger26 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 i always wondered how he could leave his children fatherless, and only care about one group. also, why all of a sudden insert Jesus into the mix, and make it EVEN more difficult for people to be saved. just doesnt make sense to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted May 21, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted May 21, 2014 It seems to me that just because we are horrified by certain passages in the bible and continue demanding that christians provide explanations for those verses isn't really cherry picking, at least, not in the way that christians generally cherry pick. Yes, god did do some horrible things in the old testament, like outlawing the consumption of bacon (what sick and depraved mind would think of such a commandment?); but we all acknowledge that god also did some good things in the old testament, like ridding the world of those pesky Amalekite children. All told, just because we focus on the unending mercilessness of god, doesn't mean we aren't also capable of seeing god's infinite mercy. No, to acknowledge that certain verses devestate the idea of a loving god isn't cherry picking; it's simply being thorough. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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