The Holy Spirit

[Ravenstar]

wow… last time I checked there was only 35,000

 

Gotta give them credit for creativity  

[sdelsolray]

wow… last time I checked there was only 35,000

 

Gotta give them credit for creativity  

Granted, it would be long, but is there a list somewhere (preferably in alphabetical order) of these frequently alleged tens of thousands of Christian denominations?

[FreeThinkerNZ]

 

So I was thinking about this...

 

Jesus ascended into heaven so that believers could receive the gift of the holy spirit.  The spirit of the all-knowing god of the universe now dwells within them.  Believers are told that this spirit will "guide them into all truth."  Setting aside the fact this is an utter failure and that there are 40,000 xtian denominations, shouldn't this make all teacher, preachers, and even the bible unnecessary???

 

I mean, if each believer not only has a direct line to god, but has his spirit WITHIN them guiding them into all truth, why do they need a pastor to instruct them?  Why was Paul and his letters necessary?  Shouldn't the holy spirit be telling believers the right way to live?  For that matter, why is any of the new testament necessary if one has the holy spirit to guide them?

 

As soon as one hears the message of the gospel, receives it and receives the holy spirit.  It seems they should be good to go!

afaik

pastor, offering and church building (including sacred objects) are the influence of pagan culture

in the bible, early christianity did not have pastor or special building

they were more spontaneous and more organic. everyone can share their faith and story about Christ

they were also move from one house to another rather than specialized building because their understanding was church is their body, not a building. 

and they did not have burnt offering because they believed that christ is the ultimate sacrifice for human

 

most likely this influence came from emperor constatine that even though gave christianity freedom, was actually still a pagan, thus he is still using pagan mindset rather than christianity

some of proof including:

1. constatine never abandoned sun worship:

    -  he kept sun in his coin

    -  he built the statue of sun god in his new capital of constatinopel

    -  he built the statue of cybele

2. in AD 321 he decreed sunday as the day of rest, and most likely to honour mithras, the unconquered sun (sunday: day of the sun)

3. mosaic of christ as unqonquered sun in st peter excavation

4. he retain the title pontifex maximus almost to his dying day ( chief of pagan priest) -> function like catholic pope 

5. he blessed his new capital with pagan magic formula to protect crops and heal desease

6. church of apostle in constatinople included 12 apostles statues circling a single tomb reserved for himself, making him the 13th and chief apostle - > pagan practise to honour the death and as significant death

7. he was delcared divine (pagan god) by senate after he died

8. obsession of sacred object and relic (from pagan influenced) : he promotes the idea that the woods came from christ cross possessed spiritual power

 

thus, if a church say they do everything by the book, it's BS

 

Thank you for this - I didn't know much about the history of Constantine and the early xian church.  Much appreciated.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

wow… last time I checked there was only 35,000

 

Gotta give them credit for creativity  

Granted, it would be long, but is there a list somewhere (preferably in alphabetical order) of these frequently alleged tens of thousands of Christian denominations?

 

Thunderf00t did a video about it, but I'd have no idea which one it is.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

wow… last time I checked there was only 35,000

 

Gotta give them credit for creativity  

Granted, it would be long, but is there a list somewhere (preferably in alphabetical order) of these frequently alleged tens of thousands of Christian denominations?

 

Here's what wiki has to say on the subject:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations

 

And here is a christian perspective:

http://theway21stcentury.wordpress.com/2012/11/23/how-many-christian-denominations-worldwide/

[Guest end3]

 

But I can see placing a pastor, someone more on the finished end as a leader.

That makes sense, in context. However, the reality is that there are more than 40,000 such leaders ostensibly near the finish who all have different messages from the HS. What should we conclude from that fact? What is the most likely reason the messages vary so widely?

 

What I gather is Holy Spirit. a spirit that helps us discern holiness/godliness. I think the HS is specific to the person and the instance.....just my opinion. What were your thoughts in the day about what the HS was there for?

[bornagainathiest]

 

 

But I can see placing a pastor, someone more on the finished end as a leader.

That makes sense, in context. However, the reality is that there are more than 40,000 such leaders ostensibly near the finish who all have different messages from the HS. What should we conclude from that fact? What is the most likely reason the messages vary so widely?

 

What I gather is Holy Spirit. a spirit that helps us discern holiness/godliness. I think the HS is specific to the person and the instance.....just my opinion. What were your thoughts in the day about what the HS was there for?

 

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/61193-god-is-a-liar/page-17#.U1v5nfldXlA

 

The holiness/godliness of the good-and-evil god, end?

 

In posts #331 and #337 of the, God is a Liar' thread, I asked you some questions... which you haven't answered.  You ducked out of that thread in #339, but the questions still stand - unresolved.  The 1 John 1 quotes you posted in #332 don't address the question I asked in #331.  Specifically, "How can God be responsible for good and bad [moral evil] if there is no darkness in Him at all?"

 

Now, please answer the question above and also and tell me how you square the good-and-evil god of the OT with only-good, light and life God of the NT, aka Jesus Christ?

[Guest end3]

Do you keep a book of what questions you have asked Christians? Go try and do something outside of this site BAA, you are worrying me.

[Ravenstar]

The Bible is pretty clear that Jehovah is both good and bad, the author of all - nothing happens without his approval. There were no warm fuzzy gods 3500 years ago.. they were 'above' the rabble… but quite human-like.

 

I think the entire thing was… they were god's so how could a human judge them. If you study the other deities that were around at the same time and compare their traits it becomes obvious that they are outreaches of human desires, hopes. aspirations and psychological states - as well as explanations for 'why the world is like it is'. Jehovah is no different - just more tribal. It is important to note that monotheism as we know it today did not exist… Jehovah was seen as one god among many (though to the Hebrews the chief god), and the Hebrews worshipped more than just him as is evidenced by archaeology of sacred sites and temple areas… though at some point he became their patron deity - around the time of the exile to Babylon. It wasn't probably until christianity that the concept of there being no other gods than Jehovah crept in. The other gods were demonized, and demoted. (Athena, Pan, Osiris, etc…).

 

The concept that "God is Love" and nothing else is a fairly recent development.

[xtify]

The Bible is pretty clear that Jehovah is both good and bad, the author of all - nothing happens without his approval. There were no warm fuzzy gods 3500 years ago.. they were 'above' the rabble… but quite human-like.

 

I think the entire thing was… they were god's so how could a human judge them. If you study the other deities that were around at the same time and compare their traits it becomes obvious that they are outreaches of human desires, hopes. aspirations and psychological states - as well as explanations for 'why the world is like it is'. Jehovah is no different - just more tribal. It is important to note that monotheism as we know it today did not exist… Jehovah was seen as one god among many (though to the Hebrews the chief god), and the Hebrews worshipped more than just him as is evidenced by archaeology of sacred sites and temple areas… though at some point he became their patron deity - around the time of the exile to Babylon. It wasn't probably until christianity that the concept of there being no other gods than Jehovah crept in. The other gods were demonized, and demoted. (Athena, Pan, Osiris, etc…).

 

The concept that "God is Love" and nothing else is a fairly recent development.

 

Most christians are completely ignorant about the history of their own religion.  They really think the LoveGod has been the same yesterday, today and forever,  

[bornagainathiest]

Do you keep a book of what questions you have asked Christians? Go try and do something outside of this site BAA, you are worrying me.

 

No, End.

 

I keep a record on my computer.  And on my profile page, here at Ex-C. (please go look).

 

That's how I keep track of Ordinaryclay's activities on other forums, over the years.  That's how I kept on at Rayskidude for over eighteen months until I exposed him as a liar.  That's how I dealt with Funguyrye, JayL and The Stranger. (Where are they now?) That's how I have dealt with and will deal with Thumbelina, whenever she returns.  And that's how I'm currently dealing with Ironhorse.

.

.

.

My friend, is it only dawning on you, after all these years, that I'm in this for the duration?

That I'm not treating this as a game?  That I'll never, ever give up?

 

BAA

[Joshpantera]

In other words, end3, you're pretty well boxed into a corner on this one....

 

"How can God be responsible for good and bad [moral evil] if there is no darkness in Him at all?"

 

Care to try getting out of it? 

[Guest end3]

In other words, end3, you're pretty well boxed into a corner on this one....

 

Care to try getting out of it?

Please restate JP....boxed in by what BAA was asking?

[Guest end3]

If that's it, personally, that's the million dollar question. My million dollar answer is I don't know. Had an offbeat thought not too far back that Jesus might be an aspect of God. Seems like I was looking into some translations that lead me to that thought. I would have to revisit.

[Joshpantera]

If that's it, personally, that's the million dollar question. My million dollar answer is I don't know. Had an offbeat thought not too far back that Jesus might be an aspect of God. Seems like I was looking into some translations that lead me to that thought. I would have to revisit.

So then you'd concede that YHWH is both good and evil, as the source of everything that exists? 

 

And beneath that omnipresent God who is by definition present in everything, including both good and evil, is this aspect from only the good side of this dualitic entity? 

[Guest afireinside]

 

 

If that's it, personally, that's the million dollar question. My million dollar answer is I don't know. Had an offbeat thought not too far back that Jesus might be an aspect of God. Seems like I was looking into some translations that lead me to that thought. I would have to revisit.

So then you'd concede that YHWH is both good and evil, as the source of everything that exists?

 

And beneath that omnipresent God who is by definition present in everything, including both good and evil, is this aspect from only the good side of this dualitic entity?

Makes sense that God be part evil considering good and evil never existed until God said the word. Is satan merely the bad aspect of God and just the antithesis of Jesus. Is God a jar of jelly beans and those aspects, Jesus, satan etc are just different coloured jellybeans?.

 

By the way who is Jesus' mother? I asked myself that today and couldn't answer it.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

 

If that's it, personally, that's the million dollar question. My million dollar answer is I don't know. Had an offbeat thought not too far back that Jesus might be an aspect of God. Seems like I was looking into some translations that lead me to that thought. I would have to revisit.

So then you'd concede that YHWH is both good and evil, as the source of everything that exists?

 

And beneath that omnipresent God who is by definition present in everything, including both good and evil, is this aspect from only the good side of this dualitic entity?

Makes sense that God be part evil considering good and evil never existed until God said the word. Is satan merely the bad aspect of God and just the antithesis of Jesus. Is God a jar of jelly beans and those aspects, Jesus, satan etc are just different coloured jellybeans?.

 

By the way who is Jesus' mother? I asked myself that today and couldn't answer it.

 

Mercy!  Please don't get End3 started up on aspects and manifestations and such. 

[Guest end3]

 

 

 

If that's it, personally, that's the million dollar question. My million dollar answer is I don't know. Had an offbeat thought not too far back that Jesus might be an aspect of God. Seems like I was looking into some translations that lead me to that thought. I would have to revisit.

So then you'd concede that YHWH is both good and evil, as the source of everything that exists?

 

And beneath that omnipresent God who is by definition present in everything, including both good and evil, is this aspect from only the good side of this dualitic entity?

 

Makes sense that God be part evil considering good and evil never existed until God said the word. Is satan merely the bad aspect of God and just the antithesis of Jesus. Is God a jar of jelly beans and those aspects, Jesus, satan etc are just different coloured jellybeans?.

 

By the way who is Jesus' mother? I asked myself that today and couldn't answer it.

 

Mercy!  Please don't get End3 started up on aspects and manifestations and such.

 

L

 

 

 

If that's it, personally, that's the million dollar question. My million dollar answer is I don't know. Had an offbeat thought not too far back that Jesus might be an aspect of God. Seems like I was looking into some translations that lead me to that thought. I would have to revisit.

So then you'd concede that YHWH is both good and evil, as the source of everything that exists?

 

And beneath that omnipresent God who is by definition present in everything, including both good and evil, is this aspect from only the good side of this dualitic entity?

 

Makes sense that God be part evil considering good and evil never existed until God said the word. Is satan merely the bad aspect of God and just the antithesis of Jesus. Is God a jar of jelly beans and those aspects, Jesus, satan etc are just different coloured jellybeans?.

 

By the way who is Jesus' mother? I asked myself that today and couldn't answer it.

 

Mercy!  Please don't get End3 started up on aspects and manifestations and such.

 

Lol, yes, please don't.

[mymistake]

 

By the way who is Jesus' mother? I asked myself that today and couldn't answer it.

 

 

A teenaged girl that Jesus created.   Stop laughing!  What is wrong with Jesus creating his own mother?  

[Ravenstar]

What is it with christianity and incest?

[mymistake]

What is it with christianity and incest?

 

 

Well Mary is the ultimate fantasy woman.  

 

Gabriel: "God is going to knock you up."

 

Mary:  "My Lord do whatever you want to me." 

 

 

Sometimes the Bible reads like a porn movie.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

 

By the way who is Jesus' mother? I asked myself that today and couldn't answer it.

 

 

A teenaged girl that Jesus created.   Stop laughing!  What is wrong with Jesus creating his own mother?  

 

Isn't there a slightly impolite word used to describe a man who has sex with his mother?  Let me think... is it "mother screwer"... no that doesn't sound right... It'll come to me, I'm sure. 

[Guest afireinside]

Maternal fornicator?

[Guest afireinside]

Seriously though did Jesus exist in the Godhead all along or was he conceived? Is there a maternal side to God that can have children? I just don't get that he is the Son of God when you need a mother to have a son, a father can't accomplish that by himself unless he is of dual gender.

[mymistake]

Seriously though did Jesus exist in the Godhead all along or was he conceived? Is there a maternal side to God that can have children? I just don't get that he is the Son of God when you need a mother to have a son, a father can't accomplish that by himself unless he is of dual gender.

 

 

John chapter 1

"1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

 

² The same was in the beginning with God.

³ All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

 

 

Now granted when these words were first written Trinity had not yet been invented.  The author of what would become John probably intended something like oneness.  But Jesus definitely created his own mother and then got her pregnant after she reached puberty.