SOIL Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Well, Johnie, Are your Mom and Dad real? Am I and Nanna real? You know how we say God made people? Well, none of us are smart enough to know how to make ourselves. So, since we are real, I guess God must be real too. -Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOIL Posted May 6, 2005 Author Share Posted May 6, 2005 After Dennis (I Broke Free) in another thread, mentioned something nice about my face causing him to think a kid might like to climb up in my lap and talk with me --- I remembered recently tucking one of my grandsons into bed for the night. As we were talking, just prior to me dozing off (I don't know why the order of who falls asleep first occurs as it usually does - me first, then the little guy) - he asked me the question that prompted this thread. The opening post is basically my response (as best as I can recall - given that I was almost asleep when I mumbled something close to what I wrote there). -Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gothicrip Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 If god is real, he realy isn't helping anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPillAddict Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Well, Johnie, Are your Mom and Dad real? Am I and Nanna real? You know how we say God made people? Well, none of us are smart enough to know how to make ourselves. So, since we are real, I guess God must be real too. -Dennis <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I could make a person right now. I just need a volunteer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOIL Posted May 6, 2005 Author Share Posted May 6, 2005 I could make a person right now. I just need a volunteer. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sfs, Given the fact that you (yourself) have already been made, I understand that. However, I'm not convinced (even with "a volunteer"), that the two of you could first make yourselves, before proceeding to "make a person". Fortunately, I was able to go ahead and get to sleep, because my grandson didn't respond with the same follow up comment (though I certainly understand - and appreciate - your comment, and I have thought along the same lines myself). -Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOIL Posted May 6, 2005 Author Share Posted May 6, 2005 If god is real, he realy isn't helping anything. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Gothicrip, I guess that depends on whether I think I am "anything" - and whether I need any help in just continuing to breath air and live. (that's coming from my perspective anyway - I can understand there are other views) -Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zach Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 So, since we are real, I guess God must be real too. Dennis- Classic "God of the Gaps" argument from ignorance. It'll work for now, but what will you tell him once Johnnie grows up and learns about evolutionary theory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPillAddict Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Sfs, Given the fact that you (yourself) have already been made, I understand that. However, I'm not convinced that (even with "a volunteer") if the two of you had to first make yourselves, the two of you could first pull that off, and then go on and succeed in making "a person". Fortunately I was able to go ahead and get to sleep, because my grandson didn't respond with the same follow up comment (though I certainly understand - and appreciate - your comment, and I have thought along the same lines myself). -Dennis <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Dennis, I understand how you feel about that. I can understand how people believe that there may be something more powerful than us that created everything. I have no problem with that belief system. The problem is all the childish games and symbology in the Christian belief system. The whole "worship my son or burn in hell" is just a little to saddam hussien for me. Its obviously stories created by man giving a "God" the emotions and actions of another man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 God made evil and Satan too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purple Rhino Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Telling bedtime stories and teaching a belief in schools are totally different arenas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 And talking donkeys, talking snakes, the impossibility of Noah's ark, the sun sitting still in the sky, sticks turning into snakes, ect are all perfectly logical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loren Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Dennis, I really like the picture you're using as your new avatar! Very warm. Just had to comment. We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oberon Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 SOIL I don't really know how your family has reared your grandchildren, so please do not take offence to my postulated conversation below. If it doesn't apply to you it would still apply to many Well, Johnie, Are your Mom and Dad real? Am I and Nanna real? Yes, I can see and touch you. You have a lasting and consistent impact on the world. Other people tend to agree you exist. That fits a definition of real unless we want to get very metaphysical You know how we say God made people? Well...yes, but you also told me there was a Santa Clause. Other people helped you convince me. They wrote books, songs, and movies about him. How is this different? And even given that you really believe what you are saying, how can I be sure you are not yourself in error? Well, none of us are smart enough to know how to make ourselves. True, our knowledge about the physical world is limited. I do know that in the distant past we knew even less about it than we do now. In the future we will probably know more. So, since we are real, I guess God must be real too.-Dennis Blink...blink I don't follow you. Are you saying God made itself? If I grant your supposition that we need a creator, how do we jump to the conclusion God? I assume that by God you are meaning the Christian God of the bible with all the trimmings and not one of the other postulated gods and prime causes out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest God's Prosecutor Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 "Pawpaw, Does God Love Me?" Well, Johnie, do your Mom and Dad love you? Yes. How do you know that they love you? Is it because Nanna and I told you that they love you? Well, yeah, I guess... If Nanna and I never told you explicitly, would you still be able to know that your Mom and Dad loved you? Well, yeah, I guess... They tell me they love me all the time. I see. Let me ask you another question, Johnie. Does Fluffy love you? Yeah. I guess... But Fluffy can't talk. And when you talk to Fluffy she can't understand you. How do you know that Fluffy loves you? I dunno. I just do, I guess. So if your Mom and Dad never said they loved you, you would still know, right? Yeah. I guess. So, you would know that your Mom and Dad loved you even if nobody else ever told you that they loved you; even if they never told you. You can even know that Fluffy loves you even though she can't tell you even if she wants to. You don't need to read about it in books, or hear about it from teachers, or lie awake at night wondering about it. You just know without even really thinking about it. Right? Yeah. I guess so. You see, Johnie, that's the nature of a personal relationship. You never need a third party to define the nature of the relationship for you. You never even need the other person to define it for you, at least not with words. If you have to do a lot of thinking about the nature of a personal relationship, then you need to question whether a relationship exists at all. It may be all in your head. I think I understand. So, how do you feel about all of this. I dunno. Weird. Kinda nervous. I don't think I can sleep anymore. I'm sorry, Johnie. I think maybe you do understand. Your feelings are perfectly normal. The good news is that none of this actually happened and neither of us really exist. If you were really my grandson and I was really your grandfather I would have just said, "Yes, Johnie. Of course God loves you and so do I." Because, if you and I were real, I would love you. I wouldn't want you to feel weird and nervous. I would want you to feel happy and safe and to get a good nights sleep. Goodnight, Johnie. Try not to worry about the irrelevant stuff. There are plenty of other questions that are more worthy of your attention. Goodnight, Pawpaw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Pawpaw, does God love me? Yes Johnie. He gave his only son to die for you so you could be with him in heaven. Of course, if you don't love him back Johnie, he's going to throw you in a lake of fire to burn in torment forever in writhing pain. But he loves you even while your burning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atheist_thinker Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 "Is God real?", or just pretend?" Well I would say it is just a fary tell. I would tell my daugter that what beliefe works for some does not mean it will work for the other. There are many to choose from and there are various sub sects with their own agnedas. You do not have to believe and no one should use threats of hell or rewards of heaven to get you to beleive. What matters is that you beleive in your self. Some people believe in a god because they have soemthing missing and need a great cosmic father figure to lean on. Othes were born into it with reinforcments of fear and a great reward. Even if they can not see or prove him, they will claim ancient scriptures, faith, and a open heart to the way of understanding. The dangerous side to religion is that it has this this tribal mentality, your either with us or against us. Also they have a need to grow and protect them selves and like all other people, they do what ever they think is necessary to gain that power, even if it is though deceit or war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueGiant Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 There is no evidence to support the theory of evolution. No fossil record at all. In fact, when a new species appears in the fossil record it does so very abruptly. Extent species also disappear the same way. There is evidence of species adapting to their environment, but none to sport evolving into new species. Then there are also the laws of physics. I could bore you with them if you like. But they are in such contradiction to the theory of evolution that it is even close to funny. The theory of evolution actually goes beyond “blind faith”, it is totally blind. Really, kid? So what's with all those bones anyway? Go ahead, bore me with the laws of physics (probably more Chemistry), I dare you. Betcha can't. Actually, the thermo gives some very viable input in terms both of abiogenesis and evolution, I'd like to see your proof that physics contradicts evolution. Oh, and before you go on, got any credentals and can you top mine? /hijack SOIL, You know, on one level, our ability to self-assemble (growing) and reassemble (healing) does make ourselves, doesn't even require that much thinking at all. It is a native ability it seems. An expression of organic nanotechnology and self-assembly, if you will. Now, while a god of the gaps works to an extent to support the notion of some sort of diety-type being, it does little to suggest the Abrhamic diety as that being. The problems for most arguments for God that I have seen is that they really can work for any god. Still, it is a gentle thing to say to a kid. You know, there are some days that I miss the god of a child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerise Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Cozzie Ceri... Yes sweets? Does God exist, or is it just pretend? Well what do you think about it? I don't know. Lot's of people don't know. It's nothing to feel bad about, not knowing. Actually, I think no one really knows whether there's an honest to goodness God or not. Sometimes saying "I know" is like saying "I hope" or "I wish" or "I think". Does the idea of there being a god make you happy? Well...I never really thought of it. Then don't worry about it sweets. When the time comes and you really need to ask this question, you'll know the answer already. You're a smart cookie that way. Thanks coz. No prob. Now go bug Auntie Bren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 This universal provider is what we Christians call God. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And what the Muslims call Allah...what the others called Ra, or Odin, or Zeus or the Great Spirit, or....well you get the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oberon Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Is there a way we can split the thoughtful and amicable thread started by Soil from the pointless canned hash dished out by invictus1967 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invictus1967 Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Am I the only one that read the title for this thread? “Is God Real” I believe is the intended topic of discussion/debate. Exactly where do you believe I have strayed away from the subject indicated by the thread title? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celsus Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 The digression into Evolution vs Creationism has been deleted. Please allow Soil and others to have a meaningful discussion on the topic he started. Invictus, if you wish to debate evolution vs creationism, take it to the Science section. Trolling in anothers thread is a violation of board guidelines. Please refresh your mind with them. Update as per thread from Invictus above. The reference was directed to Soil, not you. Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invictus1967 Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Read the thread title!!! - - - -“IS GOD REAL” How were my posts off topic?????? You ask for evidence and when I give it, someone deleted the posts because you had no rebuttal. You scream “freedom” and claim to be “free thinkers” then you delete posts that you can’t rebut all the while having the nerve to call Christians hypocrites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 All he wants is for you to take your 2nd law of thermo dynamics stuff and put it in the science thread. It's more appropriate place for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invictus1967 Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 First of all, I wasn’t the one that introduced the second law into this thread. I simply responded to a post that has since been deleted as well as my response. But none the less, why engage in a discussion/debate called “Is God real” and refuse to allow anyone to submit evidence that attempts to answer the question. What is the topic for this discussion and exactly how did I stray from it????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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