Humility

[mymistake]

Wait, did he just demand proof that his religion is a delusion and then ignore it when two different

 

arguments were provided?  Oh I forgot, it's End3.  That is what he always does.

[bornagainathiest]

The Dude's right, End.

 

If your version of Christianity is about what brings YOU joy and what helps YOU make sense of life, then your Christianity serves only YOU and not Jesus and not others.

 

That's not Biblical CHRISTianity.

 

That's using the Bible and Jesus as an excuse to be a selfish, self-centered, self-serving hypocrite.

[Fweethawt]

That's using the Bible and Jesus as an excuse to be a selfish, self-centered, self-serving hypocrite.

There's a few of these around these days, eh?

[moanareina]

I think you are right on track M....and it's a wonderful thing to understand what brings me joy. I feel like I'm about in the same place as you are but with regrets that it took me so long to understand the step that the evangelical church seems to leave out. Thanks for the note. Good job to you.

 

Good to hear End because really, what is there if it is not what brings us joy? And is it not in our hands to find out what that is? If God exists, I bet, he would just want you to explore this life with everything that is to it. And what do you have to offer to anyone if you lack joy yourself?

 

And man...you are in good company! It took us all quite some time to find out! I am almost 38, others go towards their sixties or so...

 

I think this is not just an evangelical church leaving this out thing. But as others here have tried to express I think the bible has a lot of concepts that further the negative mood and thinking process instead of helping people to understand what is their own responsibility. It is all put on God somehow. But what if God wants us to be self responsible people who try to find our very own way of finding joy in life? I am an agnostic atheist but if there is a God I think that is what he is about. I have seen so much desperation and agony in Christians (and I had been part of a very progressive Church whose empathy was on relationships and finding your talents and find a fun way to express them...of course for the cause of winning lost souls but still...we had people who where gifted in organizing events so they organized parties and vacations, just an example...there was something for everyone but still I have seen so much desperation and depression and low self esteem all at one place...). And I think it has a lot to do with this be humble before the lord etc. thing. At the prayer group I joined we had a few people who constantly prayed for the lord to break their pride because they wanted to be humble and close to God...and though they tried hard to be good people they appeared very unapproachable.

 

I feel you are on a good path End.

[Guest Furball]

Critical thinking part 2. Examining the evidence a little closer.

 

 

 

Christian: The bible is historically accurate, there are no mistakes because it was divinely inspired by god.

 

 

True or false?

 

 

False

 

 

In luke1:5 jesus was born during the reign of herod the great. This is where mary and joseph are required to account for a worldwide census ordered by quirinius. The problem is that herod died in 4 bce while the consensus was ordered by quirinius in 6ce. A full ten years after the death of herod.

 

Luke 3:2 and acts 4:6 say that annas was the appointed high priest after the census 6ce and was deposed after Tiberius became cesar 15ce. Josephus tells us that joseph Caiaphas was made high priest 18ce. Caiaphas was deposed by the proconsul vitellius in 36ce. Thus during the entire ministry of jesus it was Caiaphas, not annas who was high priest. This is further corroborated by John 18:13 which states that Caiphas, who was the son-in-law of Annas, was the high priest.

 

 

acts 21:38, Luke had the Roman tribune make the remark connecting Paul with an Egyptian who led 4,000 men of the sicarii into the desert. These three elements are historically unrelated as the accounts in Josephus (Antiquities 20:8:5-6,10) and Jewish War 2:13:3-5) make clear.

 

 

 

 acts 5:36-37, Luke put into the mouth of Gamaliel a gross anachronism. He had the revolt of Judas the Galilean 6ce  after, the revolt by Theudas 44-46 CE. Furthermore the speech by Gamaliel is set in the early thirties between 30-33 CE, since Paul has not yet converted-Acts 8:1. This means that Luke had Gamaliel making a remark about a revolt by Theudas that, at that time had yet to occur.

 

 

 

acts 11:28 mentioned a severe “worldwide famine” during the reign of Claudius. While there was a famine in Judea around 46-48 CE during the reign of Claudius, there was no worldwide famine as such. Acts 11:29-30 mentioned that the congregation in Antioch was able to send aid to help. This would be impossible, for if the famine was “worldwide”, the congregation in Antioch would have been affected as well! Thus in generalizing a local phenomena, luke had contradicted historical facts.

 

 

 

Critical thinking using historical facts has proven that the bible is not historically accurate, therefore not divinely inspired, but rather the fumbling of men’s inaccurate knowledge.

 

 

 

The officers answered, Never man spake like this man.

 

Christians hold this verse and believe the words that jesus spoke were never heard before, that his words were all original.

 

Really? Lets see what Buddha, who lived almost 6oo years before jesus has to say about that.

 

 

 

Jesus: "Do to others as you would have them do to you." Luke 6:31
Buddha: "Consider others as yourself." Dhammapada 10:1

 

 

 

Jesus: "If anyone strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also." Luke 6:29
Buddha: "If anyone should give you a blow with his hand, with a stick, or with a knife, you should abandon any desires and utter no evil words." Majjhima Nikaya 21:6

 

 

 

Jesus: "Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me." Matthew 25:45
Buddha: "If you do not tend to one another, then who is there to tend you? Whoever would tend me, he should tend the sick." Vinaya, Mahavagga 8:26.3

 

 

 

Jesus: "Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take the sword will perish by the sword." Matthew 26:52
Buddha: "Abandoning the taking of life, the ascetic Gautama dwells refraining from taking life, without stick or sword." Digha Nikaya 1:1.8

 

 

 

Jesus: "Those who want to save their life will lose it, and those who lose their life for my sake will save it." Mark 8:35
Buddha: "With the relinquishing of all thought and egotism, the enlightened one is liberated through not clinging." Majjhima Nikaya 72:15

 

 

 

Jesus: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you." Matthew 28:19-20
Buddha: "Teach the dharma which is lovely at the beginning, lovely in the middle, lovely at the end. Explain with the spirit and the letter in the fashion of Brahma. In this way you will be completely fulfilled and wholly pure." Vinaya Mahavagga 1:11.1

 

 

 

Jesus was a rip off artist, and he was not original.

 

 

 

 

 

The Tower of Babel

 

 

An all knowing god who created the universe would have known that if he had let the people continue to build, that they would have reached an elevation where oxygen was so scarce that the builders would not have been able to breath and would have stopped building, thus nullifying god having to confuse their language and scatter them. Also, it should be noted that had they been able to continue building, they would have burned up in the earth’s atmosphere.

 

 

 

Now the question begs, who would not know that there was scarce oxygen at high altitudes and that the atmosphere would have burned them up? An all knowing god who created the universe would have known. Ignorant men would have not known. So this fictional story was clearly made up by ignorant men who knew nothing about science and earth’s atmosphere.

 

 

 

 

 

He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing. job 26:7

 

 

 

Anyone can look around and see that objects are hung from other stationary objects. A quick glance into the sky reveals that the earth hangs upon nothing.

 

 

Human observation, does NOT equal divine revelation. Anyone, even a 5 year old could have come to this plain and logical conclusion.

 

 

 

Jesus Own Words Prove His Doctrine False

 

Jesus stated that without signs and wonders the jews would not believe, intimating that if they did see signs and wonders they would believe. Yet jesus was constantly showing them signs and wonders and yet the scriptures tell us they ‘still didn’t believe!’

 

Jesus stated that only those who did his fathers will enter heaven. In matthew at the end of chapter 7 we see that people did all these works (the will of the father) that jesus did himself, and yet were denied access to heaven. The statement that jesus makes later on that those who believe in him will do the same works as him is even more damning. The fathers will was that jesus do these specific works, the others who did the same works jesus did were barred from heaven.

 

 

 

I am tired of this charade. You asked for evidence and I gave you plenty to go on.

 

 

What have we learned: Prayer is as effective as a placebo or any other version of alternative medicine that has been scientifically debunked. It is imaginary. To continue believing in this is delusional.

 

 

The power of suggestive thought can create real experiences that are based upon a false belief that is imaginary. It’s a delusion.

 

 

Like the placebo, the power of prayer is nothing more than an illusion created in the mind of the one praying. Jesus stated that ALL things are possible to the one who believes. Yet we know if we pray for a million dollars to fall into our lap and believe it with all our hearts, this prayer will go un answered. To continue to believe that ALL things are possible when reality says other wise proves prayer to be imaginary. To continue to believe that it is true when reality and experience proves otherwise is delusional. In other words, it is all in your head.

 

 

The bible is historically inaccurate. It’s made up, imaginary. To continue to believe the bible is accurate when historically proven documents say otherwise is to remain in state of delusion.

 

 

Stories such as the tower of bible prove that the bible was written by ignorant, unlearned men….not by an all knowing creating god who would have known better.

 

 

Verses that seem scientific are nothing more than human observation. And remember kids, human observation does not = divine revelation.

 

 

Jesus own words, when really looked at closely contradict themselves, and his promises are not based in reality by way of critical thinking and being tested IN reality. Jesus was a fake, a fraud. Jesus promises of prayer should produce results, such as praying before you flip a coin or rolling the dice and praying it lands on a certain number etc. We all know this won’t work. If jesus promises don’t come true, then there is only ONE logical conclusion, it’s all imaginary. To continue to believe in jesus when all of his promises are tested and proven false is to remain in a state of delusion.

 

 

 

Jesus words are linked by evidence back to Buddha teachings. There is nothing new with Christianity. Hinduism, which is older than Judaism, let alone Christianity has its own scriptures and baptismal rights as well. Christianity borrowed baptism, teachings from other religions, as well as copying their wisdom (wording it differently so as to hopefully go undetected) and made it their own, as well as the greek mythology of hell. In plain words, Christianity is a rip off of other religions and passed off as its own original.

 

 

Delusional: having false or unrealistic beliefs or opinions

 

 

Critical Thinking: disciplined thinking that is clear, rational, open-minded, and informed by evidence

 

 

Reason: agreeable to reason; reasonable; sensible

 

 

Reality: real things, facts, or events taken as a whole/a real thing or fact             

 

 

Evidence: that which tends to prove or disprove something;ground for belief/ something that makes plain or clear

 

 

The bible when tested with critical thinking, repetitive testing (such as prayer), held against historical documents and and tested in the world which we currently reside, fails all 5 of the above descriptions.

 

 

 

Imaginary: existing only in the imagination or fancy; not real;fancied

[Guest Furball]

[FreeThinkerNZ]

 

 

Went to Sunday school and the subject was humility. This opened discussion of levels of humanity and the need to be humble in order to connect to different levels. And then it turned to abandoning higher levels to not separate ourselves from lower levels.

 

So for some reason, this whole thing is perplexing to me.

 

We seek, we do, we learn, and there are things defined like humility.

 

Humility seems like a quality defined as a consequence of a crappy perspective.

 

Thoughts?

 

My thoughts?

 

Dump that esoteric sounding Sunday School Churchy bullshit and apologise to those you've insulted.  Take a big inhale of real humility.  Don't worry, you won't be sent to Hell for it, you semi-intolerable idiot.

 

In fact, why don't you dump your psuedo-philosophical horseshit too. Quit with the word salad baloney and stop trying to look smarter than you are. It makes you look dumb. 

 

Don't take offence, End3, I intended none. You asked for thoughts, and those are mine. I'm just trying to speak the truth in love.

 

You take people like Thack. I have apologized several times to her. She doesn't wish to accept. Here's one for your record books Dude. Secondly, NZ and I don't really get along. We did, and then we didn't for some reason. If she is willing to fill me in on how I have specifically offended her, I will consider apologizing.

 

Thirdly, I solicited opinions here to get a different perspective than the "churchy" one. Their righteous hierarchy was what was not sitting well with me. The Prof made a point that I could understand.

 

So how else would you wish me to "correct" myself. Thanks.

 

Not playing End's manipulative little game.  People either apologise sincerely and unconditionally, or they don't at all.  (We got along, because I give everyone a chance until they show they are a jerk, then I stop extending the hand of friendship).

[Guest end3]

 

 

 

Went to Sunday school and the subject was humility. This opened discussion of levels of humanity and the need to be humble in order to connect to different levels. And then it turned to abandoning higher levels to not separate ourselves from lower levels.

 

So for some reason, this whole thing is perplexing to me.

 

We seek, we do, we learn, and there are things defined like humility.

 

Humility seems like a quality defined as a consequence of a crappy perspective.

 

Thoughts?

 

My thoughts?

 

Dump that esoteric sounding Sunday School Churchy bullshit and apologise to those you've insulted.  Take a big inhale of real humility.  Don't worry, you won't be sent to Hell for it, you semi-intolerable idiot.

 

In fact, why don't you dump your psuedo-philosophical horseshit too. Quit with the word salad baloney and stop trying to look smarter than you are. It makes you look dumb. 

 

Don't take offence, End3, I intended none. You asked for thoughts, and those are mine. I'm just trying to speak the truth in love.

 

You take people like Thack. I have apologized several times to her. She doesn't wish to accept. Here's one for your record books Dude. Secondly, NZ and I don't really get along. We did, and then we didn't for some reason. If she is willing to fill me in on how I have specifically offended her, I will consider apologizing.

 

Thirdly, I solicited opinions here to get a different perspective than the "churchy" one. Their righteous hierarchy was what was not sitting well with me. The Prof made a point that I could understand.

 

So how else would you wish me to "correct" myself. Thanks.

 

Not playing End's manipulative little game.  People either apologise sincerely and unconditionally, or they don't at all.  (We got along, because I give everyone a chance until they show they are a jerk, then I stop extending the hand of friendship).

 

What manipulative little game? I don't feel the need to apologize. We were decent to each other and then you weren't. If you would like to communicate about it like an adult, that would be fine. Otherwise, it seems that you are the one manipulating.

[bornagainathiest]

 

What manipulative little game? I don't feel the need to apologize. We were decent to each other and then you weren't. If you would like to communicate about it like an adult, that would be fine. Otherwise, it seems that you are the one manipulating.

 

 

That's interesting, End.

 

Your "Christian" humility requires that people be decent towards you?

 

So why didn't Jesus (your role-model for humility?) require Herod, Caiaphas and Pilate to treat him decently?

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Your Christianity might have that requirement, but Biblical Christianity doesn't. 

 

Biblical Christianity requires YOU to be decent to everyone, regardless of their treatment of you.

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Turn the other cheek.

 

Bless and do not curse.

 

Love your enemies.

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But your "Christianity" isn't Biblical Christianity, is it?

 

Your self-serving religion is ENDianity, not CHRISTianity.

 

It looks the same and even sounds the same, but it bears only rotten fruit!

[mymistake]

 

What manipulative little game? I don't feel the need to apologize. We were decent to each other and then you weren't. If you would like to communicate about it like an adult, that would be fine. Otherwise, it seems that you are the one manipulating.

 

 

 

End3, when you express hatred for an entire gender that is not decent.  You hate women.  NZ doesn't like

 

that. She isn't being childish about it.  Rather you are displaying a massive lack of humility.  There is no

 

mystery here.  Your delusional religion gave you a f*cked up world view.

[Guest Furball]

So all that hard work to put evidence on the table and no one gave a shit. Great!

 

I give up. 

 

-Cat

[Guest Furball]

Oh, and no rebuttal from end3 huh? 

 

I remember when he said i wasn't up to his level of intelligence. I am still getting a laugh out of that one to this day. 

 

All that evidence and he still holds to his imaginary philosophy. 

 

Like i said in my first post, delusional. Don't worry end3, i won't post anymore in your unintelligent threads, your posts dumb me way the fuck down. 

 

Delusional: 1. having false or unrealistic beliefs or opinions.

                                   2. Psychiatry. maintaining fixed false beliefs even when confronted with facts, usually as a       result of mental illness.

 

Here end3eth the lesson.

[duderonomy]

So all that hard work to put evidence on the table and no one gave a shit. Great!

 

I give up. 

 

-Cat

 

Don't worry, Cat, lot's of us give a shit.

 

You know how you sometimes read a post where someone says they have been lurking here for a long time before they decided to join?   They're reading your evidence too, don't forget that, and don't give up!   

[Brother Jeff]

So all that hard work to put evidence on the table and no one gave a shit. Great!

 

I give up. 

 

-Cat

 

I give a shit! I appreciate your posts! Please keep up the good work! Glory!

[sdelsolray]

So all that hard work to put evidence on the table and no one gave a shit. Great!

 

I give up. 

 

-Cat

Don't give up.  End3 is our resident little shit.  He plays the role well.