Why Do I Pretend?

[Jeff]

 

Lately I've been wondering if there is some way I could be a Christian so that I would not be pretending. I don't like being deceptive. I've been imagining going to one of those churches like I see on Christian TV and trying to be a Christian in spite of not believing intellectually. It's very odd, because I was raised in a liturgical style church, but I've been imagining going to a fundamentalist church and how much fun it would be to go to Bible studies and try to rationalize things and be around all those earnest Christian people... very strange. Probably it is feeling so isolated in life that motivates these odd thoughts.

I do this a lot too. I often wonder if I should just pull up my big boy pants and push aside all my doubts. Go to a good christian university, shake off my lgbt identity, marry a good man, go into the mission field. I see all my christian friends getting married and it is so foreign but at the same time it makes me want something that simple. I even consider it heavily sometimes, how much nicer it would be not to have to pretend and just be it naturally.

 

I think... it's mainly wanting to find comfort in familiarity. But I found when I was put back into that kind of society after being out of the church for a while, even if I was choosing it, it was only comforting to an extent. It might be different for you, but I think eventually things that pushed you away from the church will just pile up again.

 

I'm sorry you feel isolated. It's a horrible, horrible feeling. I hope you're able to find people to surround yourself with who speak in the voices you need to hear.

Why would you do that to some man? You can keep this up for life? Very unfair and hurtful potentially.

And go into missions? For what purpose? To tell them the good news that you yourself are not so sure about?

That's playing with people's lives.

[directionless]

I do this a lot too. I often wonder if I should just pull up my big boy pants and push aside all my doubts. Go to a good christian university, shake off my lgbt identity, marry a good man, go into the mission field. I see all my christian friends getting married and it is so foreign but at the same time it makes me want something that simple. I even consider it heavily sometimes, how much nicer it would be not to have to pretend and just be it naturally.

 

I think... it's mainly wanting to find comfort in familiarity. But I found when I was put back into that kind of society after being out of the church for a while, even if I was choosing it, it was only comforting to an extent. It might be different for you, but I think eventually things that pushed you away from the church will just pile up again.

 

I'm sorry you feel isolated. It's a horrible, horrible feeling. I hope you're able to find people to surround yourself with who speak in the voices you need to hear.

Thanks, @knightcore What you say is definitely true. My experience in attending church after losing faith is probably similar to yours. I tried attending Catholic church a few times a year ago (even though I have never been Catholic). Firstly, I felt that everybody was somehow aware of my lack of belief - as if I was wearing an atheist T-shirt. Secondly, I felt that I was patronizing the people who believed by pretending instead of showing them they were wrong. It just made me even more alienated from Christianity when I tried to attend church. Probably it would be the same if I attended any denomination now. I always hated church even when I believed. I don't know why I would fantasize about it now. LOL

[disillusioned]

 

I stopped believing long before I told my friends and family. I never actually lied about it, I just didn't mention that I no longer believed.

Yes, that's how it is for me. I don't actually lie, but I don't try to correct anybody when they assume I am still a believer. I don't like confronting people about anything. Sometimes people will make comments that I disagree with, but I usually overlook them. The comments can be anything - politics, ethnic stereotypes, etc.

 

So it wouldn't be natural for me to say "oh, by the way, I decided Christianity isn't true, so I'm an atheist now." I'm just not a confident, assertive person that could do that. Also I often find myself believing in Christianity even though I know many reasons that I should not believe. So calling myself an atheist isn't fully accurate.

 

 

...and that's fine. To thine own self be true, and all that. The only reason I told my family at all was to protect my future children from indoctrination. Had that not been an issue, I probably would have just let it lie.

[FreeThinkerNZ]

 

Keep talking. Work through it

LOL, I always keep talking.

 

I was talking to an acquaintance who is a Christian. Several times, Christianity came-up in the conversation, and I nodded my head in agreement as though I still believe as I once did. I found myself wishing that I really still believed. Maybe I want to belong to something - even if its simply a shared belief? Maybe I miss knowing what is right and wrong? I never attended church, and I almost never read my Bible, but I thought God was watching out for me - even if I had no evidence. I still think that even though I call myself an atheist. I don't know if it is habit or actual belief. Maybe belief is simply habit instead of a position we reach through deductive reasoning or science?

 

Another thing is that I enjoy watching PureFlix Christian movies. I think those movies target my age and small town origins. Maybe I'm just having a mid-life crisis. I'll be 50 next year. Life sucks, but I no longer have any aspirations for anything better.

 

 

If you no longer have any aspirations for anything better, then it sounds like you may have depression.  I know we've talked about this before, and you've said you don't want to take medication, and exercise stabilises your brain chemistry.  So I say, get exercising.  Do it every day regardless of how you feel, unless you have an actual injury that prevents you from doing it.  In which case, take up aquajogging.  Find a project or goal, so you have something to look forward to.  

 

We get nostalgic for the past when we find our current life unsatisfying or hard.  Our brains filter out the bad parts, so we mistakenly think life was easier back then.  But it wasn't, necessarily.  Write a list of the good and bad things about the present day, and the 80s/90s.  You might be surprised.  One thing I like about the present day is that medical science can save more lives and relieve more suffering than it could back then.  So if we develop an illness now, our chances of survival are much better.  This is progress, humanity is moving forwards.  Those on the political right want us to believe things are going backwards, but the evidence does not support that.  It is propaganda.

[directionless]

If you no longer have any aspirations for anything better, then it sounds like you may have depression.  I know we've talked about this before, and you've said you don't want to take medication, and exercise stabilises your brain chemistry.  So I say, get exercising.  Do it every day regardless of how you feel, unless you have an actual injury that prevents you from doing it.  In which case, take up aquajogging.  Find a project or goal, so you have something to look forward to.  

 

We get nostalgic for the past when we find our current life unsatisfying or hard.  Our brains filter out the bad parts, so we mistakenly think life was easier back then.  But it wasn't, necessarily.  Write a list of the good and bad things about the present day, and the 80s/90s.  You might be surprised.  One thing I like about the present day is that medical science can save more lives and relieve more suffering than it could back then.  So if we develop an illness now, our chances of survival are much better.  This is progress, humanity is moving forwards.  Those on the political right want us to believe things are going backwards, but the evidence does not support that.  It is propaganda.

Thanks, I took your advice and just rode my exercise bike. Aqua jogging sounds interesting. I am such a clumsy swimmer that it's pretty embarrassing. I draw a lot of attention to myself with all my thrashing and splashing as I flounder back and forth (and my flabby physique doesn't help matters LOL). Aqua jogging might be less offensive to the other people in the swimming pool IDK. I have also thought about kick boarding back and forth with an MP3 player.

 

EDIT: One positive change from the 1980s is Wikipedia. I learn so many things by browsing Wikipedia. I was never very comfortable in a library, and that was the only alternative back in the good old days.

[FreeThinkerNZ]

 

If you no longer have any aspirations for anything better, then it sounds like you may have depression.  I know we've talked about this before, and you've said you don't want to take medication, and exercise stabilises your brain chemistry.  So I say, get exercising.  Do it every day regardless of how you feel, unless you have an actual injury that prevents you from doing it.  In which case, take up aquajogging.  Find a project or goal, so you have something to look forward to.  

 

We get nostalgic for the past when we find our current life unsatisfying or hard.  Our brains filter out the bad parts, so we mistakenly think life was easier back then.  But it wasn't, necessarily.  Write a list of the good and bad things about the present day, and the 80s/90s.  You might be surprised.  One thing I like about the present day is that medical science can save more lives and relieve more suffering than it could back then.  So if we develop an illness now, our chances of survival are much better.  This is progress, humanity is moving forwards.  Those on the political right want us to believe things are going backwards, but the evidence does not support that.  It is propaganda.

Thanks, I took your advice and just rode my exercise bike. Aqua jogging sounds interesting. I am such a clumsy swimmer that it's pretty embarrassing. I draw a lot of attention to myself with all my thrashing and splashing as I flounder back and forth (and my flabby physique doesn't help matters LOL). Aqua jogging might be less offensive to the other people in the swimming pool IDK. I have also thought about kick boarding back and forth with an MP3 player.

 

EDIT: One positive change from the 1980s is Wikipedia. I learn so many things by browsing Wikipedia. I was never very comfortable in a library, and that was the only alternative back in the good old days.

 

Aquajogging is great because you can do it even if you are injured.  It's easier than swimming, and most of you is under water so no one can see you.  You can jog as hard or easy as you like.  Also, the strength needed to push against the resistance of the water gives you a good workout.

[directionless]

Aquajogging is great because you can do it even if you are injured.  It's easier than swimming, and most of you is under water so no one can see you.  You can jog as hard or easy as you like.  Also, the strength needed to push against the resistance of the water gives you a good workout.

I've been watching some youtubes of aqua jogging and it does look interesting. It looks like aqua jogging would be less splashing and noise than kick boarding too.

[knightcore]

 

 

Lately I've been wondering if there is some way I could be a Christian so that I would not be pretending. I don't like being deceptive. I've been imagining going to one of those churches like I see on Christian TV and trying to be a Christian in spite of not believing intellectually. It's very odd, because I was raised in a liturgical style church, but I've been imagining going to a fundamentalist church and how much fun it would be to go to Bible studies and try to rationalize things and be around all those earnest Christian people... very strange. Probably it is feeling so isolated in life that motivates these odd thoughts.

I do this a lot too. I often wonder if I should just pull up my big boy pants and push aside all my doubts. Go to a good christian university, shake off my lgbt identity, marry a good man, go into the mission field. I see all my christian friends getting married and it is so foreign but at the same time it makes me want something that simple. I even consider it heavily sometimes, how much nicer it would be not to have to pretend and just be it naturally.

 

I think... it's mainly wanting to find comfort in familiarity. But I found when I was put back into that kind of society after being out of the church for a while, even if I was choosing it, it was only comforting to an extent. It might be different for you, but I think eventually things that pushed you away from the church will just pile up again.

 

I'm sorry you feel isolated. It's a horrible, horrible feeling. I hope you're able to find people to surround yourself with who speak in the voices you need to hear.

Why would you do that to some man? You can keep this up for life? Very unfair and hurtful potentially.

And go into missions? For what purpose? To tell them the good news that you yourself are not so sure about?

That's playing with people's lives.

 

 

I wouldn't do it. It's remembe how I always thought I would grow up to be and how I was always expected to be. It's a really hard thing to shake off.

I've had a lot of things I've had to reevalutate due to my faith and gender. It's hard to be comfortable in my own skin. What I was trying to express is that everyone doubts themselves sometimes. My doubts tend of run in that vein. I'm happy with where I am and who I am, I could never go back. But after having that hammered into my head for years on end I really don't think that anyone can blame me for having thoughts like that.

[VacuumFlux]

 

Yeah, Kant isn't easy to understand. I only have a Philosophy 101 understanding of him myself. He's a bit too strict for my taste. He basically argues if you get back a penny too much from the cashier, you'd better march your way back into the store and make things right as you ask yourself 'would I that the world were based on theft?'

 

I personally think there's more wiggle room and that we don't all have to live like monks to be good people.

We once found a 20 in front of a bar... I felt bad for keeping it, but if I were to go in the bar and said "who lost this 20?" I would not get an honest answer.

 

I have come to the conclusion that sometimes the ends justifies the means, like once we were out of food so we tried to get more food from a give a way by pretending to be from two different houses... But a Christian caught us and took away half our food, is it ever right to take food from the poor because of a rule? Though maybe if everyone did that they would not have enough for everyone... But they throw out lots of food...

 

This is my mind, forever seeing both side to the argument and not coming to a conclusion.

 

 

And now you're getting into areas where morality is cultural. We're an individualistic society. In more communal societies, someone lying to get food for his family wouldn't be acting immorally; the rest of his tribe would be the ones with the moral blame for not proving him with food and preventing it getting to that point. We still kinda have that idea with our dependents, where it's criminal to neglect children. Other cultures think the entire tribe (but maybe just the tribe, not necessarily outsiders) has that sort of obligation to each other through their entire lives. Our culture used to feel an obligation for the kids to take care of elderly parents, and some people in our society still feel that way.

 

The rough understanding I have is that there are certain categories of morality that are universal in humanity, but the balance between them and the details in how they play out is cultural. One of the interesting ones is purity; in America, whether or not one values purity as an important virtue is very strongly correlated with where you fall in our 2 party political system (conservatives value it; liberals do not). And that's why some arguments never get settled no matter how many facts each side throws at each other - what you're really arguing over is which virtues/values are important enough to override others when they come into conflict.

[Vigile]

 

Lately I've been wondering if there is some way I could be a Christian so that I would not be pretending. I don't like being deceptive. I've been imagining going to one of those churches like I see on Christian TV and trying to be a Christian in spite of not believing intellectually. It's very odd, because I was raised in a liturgical style church, but I've been imagining going to a fundamentalist church and how much fun it would be to go to Bible studies and try to rationalize things and be around all those earnest Christian people... very strange. Probably it is feeling so isolated in life that motivates these odd thoughts.

 

I do this a lot too. I often wonder if I should just pull up my big boy pants and push aside all my doubts. Go to a good christian university, shake off my lgbt identity, marry a good man, go into the mission field. I see all my christian friends getting married and it is so foreign but at the same time it makes me want something that simple. I even consider it heavily sometimes, how much nicer it would be not to have to pretend and just be it naturally.

 

I think... it's mainly wanting to find comfort in familiarity. But I found when I was put back into that kind of society after being out of the church for a while, even if I was choosing it, it was only comforting to an extent. It might be different for you, but I think eventually things that pushed you away from the church will just pile up again.

 

I'm sorry you feel isolated. It's a horrible, horrible feeling. I hope you're able to find people to surround yourself with who speak in the voices you need to hear.

 

 

Wow, I have never felt like you two, so perhaps I'm unable to empathize or understand what it is you're going through, but a comfortable familiarity like that sounds more like a silent death and really no life at all.

 

My .02 is that both of you are suffering from ongoing indoctrination and if you're able to one day get through it, you'll look back at now and breath a sigh of relief that you escaped it.

 

[Mythra]

Let me second what Vigile just said. There is life that's worthwhile and waiting to be lived on the other side of the brain infection known as religion.

[Margee]

I'm going to 'third' what Vigile and Myrtha just said. Once you know the truth about something, it is really hard to go back. You would have to pretend and play the biggest phoney. Sure, one can do this but you will have to live the rest of your life knowing that you are not your authentic self. I think that would be such misery. Personally, I could not sit in one more church service if you paid me.

 

My heart still bleeds for those who have no choice but to attend church. At this point in my deconversion, I don't think I could even go back to keep the peace with a loved one even though I have made that suggestion to other people on the board within the last 5 years. But then again, I have changed my mind about this (And it's because of the posting on EX-c) because it's so important  to be who I really am at this point. I don't care if my whole hometown rejected me, I could not listen to that bullshit in the bible anymore.

 

I don't make any 'noise' about my atheism but I am finally at the point that if someone comes right out and asks me, I will tell them. It takes time to get to this point so keep posting.  The truthful people here on Ex-c who have taught me how to come out of my shell have helped me become my 'truer' self. I couldn't be more grateful this morning. Keep reading, keep posting. Eventually, you will want to take back the power of your own mind and life.

 

((hugs)) to all of you.

[directionless]

Read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. It's a fantastic book and gives real world application and example of philosophy.

Thanks. I added that to my wish list. Sometimes I think about these things, but I know I'm not the first to ponder them. LOL

[directionless]

@Vigile , @Mythra , @Margee , it's hard to explain.

 

Originally, I thought that Christianity was making it difficult to overcome a psychotic break that happened in 2009. Now I am beginning to think that this is as good as it's going to get for me psychologically - regardless of whether I'm a Christian or an atheist. Apparently when I don't get enough sleep and get depressed, then I start having mild paranoia.

 

With that realization, I have been thinking how nice it would be to be able to honestly call myself a Christian of sorts. My mother tells me about friends and family that have various problems and need our prayer. It makes me feel awkward and dishonest. But wouldn't it be nice if I could feel comfortable. If some coworker mentions Jesus, I would like to be able to honestly nod my head instead of dishonestly nod my head.

 

I'm the only non-believer in my family (that I know about), and most of the people I work with are also believers. I just want some commonality with them. I'm going to have cognitive dissonance anyway simply due to having been psychotic. I have very real memories that I will always believe - no matter how much I intellectualize about hallucinations. IDK

[Margee]

@Vigile , @Mythra , @Margee , it's hard to explain.

 

Originally, I thought that Christianity was making it difficult to overcome a psychotic break that happened in 2009. Now I am beginning to think that this is as good as it's going to get for me psychologically - regardless of whether I'm a Christian or an atheist. Apparently when I don't get enough sleep and get depressed, then I start having mild paranoia.

 

With that realization, I have been thinking how nice it would be to be able to honestly call myself a Christian of sorts. My mother tells me about friends and family that have various problems and need our prayer. It makes me feel awkward and dishonest. But wouldn't it be nice if I could feel comfortable. If some coworker mentions Jesus, I would like to be able to honestly nod my head instead of dishonestly nod my head.

 

I'm the only non-believer in my family (that I know about), and most of the people I work with are also believers. I just want some commonality with them. I'm going to have cognitive dissonance anyway simply due to having been psychotic. I have very real memories that I will always believe - no matter how much I intellectualize about hallucinations. IDK

Just be as loving as you can sweetie. Love is a great 'god' substitute......

 

If you have to pretend for awhile and it's makes you comfortable...do what you have to do to be comfortable. None of us will put you down for it. A lot of us here have been through what you are going through and I agree, it's not always fun. I went through what you are going through, so I do understand.

 

Be comfortable today until you figure out the best way to work this.

 

What about Universal Unitarian church? Have you checked that out? That might make you comfortable? http://www.universalchurch.org/

 

Big, big, ((hug))

[directionless]

Just be as loving as you can sweetie. Love is a great 'god' substitute......

 

If you have to pretend for awhile and it's makes you comfortable...do what you have to do to be comfortable. None of us will put you down for it. A lot of us here have been through what you are going through and I agree, it's not always fun. I went through what you are going through, so I do understand.

 

Be comfortable today until you figure out the best way to work this.

 

What about Universal Unitarian church? Have you checked that out? That might make you comfortable? http://www.universalchurch.org/

 

Big, big, ((hug))

Thanks, @Margee

[directionless]

FWIW, I didn't get the impression that @knightcore is having too much cognitive dissonance. It sounded to me like he has always been skeptical and is comfortable as an atheist now. I think he is saying that it's the social or cultural that he misses. Maybe I misunderstand.

 

(It's just that I hate to see @knightcore being lumped in with a goofy person like me. I have always been a bit wishy-washy and careless in my reasoning and resolve. I think that @knightcore has done extremely well to have tackled so many difficult problems while trying to finish high school and college. He's obviously very sharp IMO.)

[Mythra]

Yeah, if you need to go back to christianity to keep your head on straight, that's cool. Ain't nobody keeping score.

 

Regardless, you're always a welcome addition here.

[JenniferG]

Dr. Marlene Winell's book, "Leaving the Fold: A Guide for Former Fundamentalists and Others Leaving Their Religion" is of great help to me at the moment. It's filling in the blanks or void that's left from throwing religion overboard. The book has some cognitive repair exercises to reconstruct faulty beliefs. I also find Dr. Jon Kabat-Zinn's Mindfulness for Beginners extremely helpful. I like that his practice of Mindful-Based Stress Reduction at the University of Massachusetts Hospital is based on over 30 years of solid scientific research. I got this book on audio and play it regularly. My stress and anxiety levels are way down putting MBSR into practice every day. Best wishes.

[Margee]

Dr. Marlene Winell's book, "Leaving the Fold: A Guide for Former Fundamentalists and Others Leaving Their Religion" is of great help to me at the moment. It's filling in the blanks or void that's left from throwing religion overboard. The book has some cognitive repair exercises to reconstruct faulty beliefs. I also find Dr. Jon Kabat-Zinn's Mindfulness for Beginners extremely helpful. I like that his practice of Mindful-Based Stress Reduction at the University of Massachusetts Hospital is based on over 30 years of solid scientific research. I got this book on audio and play it regularly. My stress and anxiety levels are way down putting MBSR into practice every day. Best wishes.

 

Hi Jennifer! I don't know if I welcomed you to Ex-c or not yet? Good to have you here. I got got excited because I am also doing mindful based stress reduction and it is helping me so much!! My practice right now, suggested by my councilor is to stay in the 'now' and learn to become completely aware of every emotion. This way, I can learn what makes me feel good and what makes me feel bad and correct the situations. It's kind of fun actually!

 

Real good suggestions for our friend directionless!

[knightcore]

FWIW, I didn't get the impression that @knightcore is having too much cognitive dissonance. It sounded to me like he has always been skeptical and is comfortable as an atheist now. I think he is saying that it's the social or cultural that he misses. Maybe I misunderstand.

 

(It's just that I hate to see @knightcore being lumped in with a goofy person like me. I have always been a bit wishy-washy and careless in my reasoning and resolve. I think that @knightcore has done extremely well to have tackled so many difficult problems while trying to finish high school and college. He's obviously very sharp IMO.)

Yeah, for me a lot of it is the culture I guess. Because as horrible as it could be it's all I knew? If that makes sense.

 

And for the record, I'm an extremely goofy person But I still agree with what others were saying a page back. I was definitely indoctrined, both religiously and socially. If I wasn't I don't think I would consider doing something that makes me that unhappy.

 

I don't know if it will help you, but I still "pray" technically. It's more sending positive thoughts and keeping people in mind, but sometimes I even use candles (much like lighting prayer candles in catholic churches) to focus it. It's helped me a lot because prayer was one of the aspects of Christianity I did like. It also enabled me to honestly be able to tell people I was thinking and praying for them even if it might not be the kind of prayer they're thinking of. It's hard stepping away from faith and sometimes making small compromises like that helps. 

 

I also haven't really gone cold turkey, I believe in some for of higher power. It's nice to be able to blame something, in all honesty. Whether you want to call it god, the universe, nature, whatever. I found that sat with me better than just completely abolishing the idea of god.

 

Faith comes in a lot of different forms, so does un-faith. While we can all pitch in and help you get there in the end you need to find what you're most comfortable with, whether it's complete atheism or some sort of inbetween. Some people might call me a christian still, but between me not believing in Christ as savior and complete irreverence for the holy spirit I don't agree with them.

 

I kind of went on a tangent there, but I really hope you can find the right path for yourself where you feel at ease.

[directionless]

Yeah, for me a lot of it is the culture I guess. Because as horrible as it could be it's all I knew? If that makes sense.

 

And for the record, I'm an extremely goofy person But I still agree with what others were saying a page back. I was definitely indoctrined, both religiously and socially. If I wasn't I don't think I would consider doing something that makes me that unhappy.

 

I don't know if it will help you, but I still "pray" technically. It's more sending positive thoughts and keeping people in mind, but sometimes I even use candles (much like lighting prayer candles in catholic churches) to focus it. It's helped me a lot because prayer was one of the aspects of Christianity I did like. It also enabled me to honestly be able to tell people I was thinking and praying for them even if it might not be the kind of prayer they're thinking of. It's hard stepping away from faith and sometimes making small compromises like that helps. 

 

I also haven't really gone cold turkey, I believe in some for of higher power. It's nice to be able to blame something, in all honesty. Whether you want to call it god, the universe, nature, whatever. I found that sat with me better than just completely abolishing the idea of god.

 

Faith comes in a lot of different forms, so does un-faith. While we can all pitch in and help you get there in the end you need to find what you're most comfortable with, whether it's complete atheism or some sort of inbetween. Some people might call me a christian still, but between me not believing in Christ as savior and complete irreverence for the holy spirit I don't agree with them.

 

I kind of went on a tangent there, but I really hope you can find the right path for yourself where you feel at ease.

Thanks, @knightcore I know what you mean about complaining to God - I do that a lot too LOL.

[FreeThinkerNZ]

@Vigile , @Mythra , @Margee , it's hard to explain.

 

Originally, I thought that Christianity was making it difficult to overcome a psychotic break that happened in 2009. Now I am beginning to think that this is as good as it's going to get for me psychologically - regardless of whether I'm a Christian or an atheist. Apparently when I don't get enough sleep and get depressed, then I start having mild paranoia.

 

With that realization, I have been thinking how nice it would be to be able to honestly call myself a Christian of sorts. My mother tells me about friends and family that have various problems and need our prayer. It makes me feel awkward and dishonest. But wouldn't it be nice if I could feel comfortable. If some coworker mentions Jesus, I would like to be able to honestly nod my head instead of dishonestly nod my head.

 

I'm the only non-believer in my family (that I know about), and most of the people I work with are also believers. I just want some commonality with them. I'm going to have cognitive dissonance anyway simply due to having been psychotic. I have very real memories that I will always believe - no matter how much I intellectualize about hallucinations. IDK

 

These symptoms sound to me like a kind of psychotic depression, or what's known as schizo-affective disorder.  I'm not sure if you've been given a clear diagnosis or not.  Lack of sleep tends to trigger depression in those of us who are susceptible to it.  What sort of things get in the way of your sleep?  Have you ever had a sleep study?  I think exercise is going to be very important for you, because of the mood-stabilising endorphins, and also helping you sleep better.

[directionless]

These symptoms sound to me like a kind of psychotic depression, or what's known as schizo-affective disorder.  I'm not sure if you've been given a clear diagnosis or not.  Lack of sleep tends to trigger depression in those of us who are susceptible to it.  What sort of things get in the way of your sleep?  Have you ever had a sleep study?  I think exercise is going to be very important for you, because of the mood-stabilising endorphins, and also helping you sleep better.

Thanks, @FreeThinkerNZ I have sometimes wondered about psychotic depression and schizo-affective too.

 

Coincidentally, I struggled with more superstitious thoughts yesterday. In an instant, my brain can take some disconnected clues and assemble them into a paranoid and superstitious explanation. Then I seem to believe in that explanation - even though I know it is ridiculous. This is exactly how it happened when I had a psychotic break in 2009 (except on a more intense scale). One second I was normal, and the next second I "realized" I was the target of a huge Satanic conspiracy. I won't describe the superstitious thoughts I had yesterday, because they are just silly and I think they are mostly gone today. It's only an annoyance. I get angry at myself for having this problem, but I decided I need to forgive myself. My brain is doing the best it can, and it does good enough for me. A few glitches now and then are nothing to be upset about

[FreeThinkerNZ]

 

These symptoms sound to me like a kind of psychotic depression, or what's known as schizo-affective disorder.  I'm not sure if you've been given a clear diagnosis or not.  Lack of sleep tends to trigger depression in those of us who are susceptible to it.  What sort of things get in the way of your sleep?  Have you ever had a sleep study?  I think exercise is going to be very important for you, because of the mood-stabilising endorphins, and also helping you sleep better.

Thanks, @FreeThinkerNZ I have sometimes wondered about psychotic depression and schizo-affective too.

 

Coincidentally, I struggled with more superstitious thoughts yesterday. In an instant, my brain can take some disconnected clues and assemble them into a paranoid and superstitious explanation. Then I seem to believe in that explanation - even though I know it is ridiculous. This is exactly how it happened when I had a psychotic break in 2009 (except on a more intense scale). One second I was normal, and the next second I "realized" I was the target of a huge Satanic conspiracy. I won't describe the superstitious thoughts I had yesterday, because they are just silly and I think they are mostly gone today. It's only an annoyance. I get angry at myself for having this problem, but I decided I need to forgive myself. My brain is doing the best it can, and it does good enough for me. A few glitches now and then are nothing to be upset about

 

At times in my long journey with depression and anxiety symptoms I have felt angry - mostly just angry at my bad luck for having this problem.  When we feel angry at ourselves for any reason, that can be a symptom of depression, ie negative thinking, self loathing.  I find it helps to think of my brain as a physical organ that doesn't work as well as it should, just like if I had a heart, liver or kidney condition.  It's not my fault that my neurotransmission chemicals and structures don't work well all of the time.  Same with you.

 

Since you don't want to use medications, you might want to look at talk therapy, as a good therapist can help you learn coping strategies, including getting some things on paper.  Like a relapse and recovery plan, so your wishes are recorded and people can act on them as much as possible.  It can also be a prompt for you... sort of like a letter your well self writes to your unwell self.  It's possible that if you were unwell enough, you might disregard the plan and see it as part of a conspiracy.  That's where having a therapist or one or more informed support people can help. 

 

In NZ we have free universal mental health services where you can work with a social worker or mental health nurse for say an hour a week for months or years to do this planning and talk therapy.  They can sit down with you and your support people so everyone is on the same page.  They are like an anchor in stormy seas.  You can phone someone 24/7 and if you need inpatient care they arrange it and keep seeing you in there.  I don't think there are many parts of the US that have this kind of service, and the threshold for getting help is probably higher, and the help is not as long term.  I wish the US would develop services like this though, as I think it would do a lot of good.

 

In summary, writing down your rational views about your thought patterns and beliefs can help you when things start slipping into irrational thinking.  And maybe giving a copy to someone else so you can't destroy it while unwell too.