After Texas Stopped Funding Planned Parenthood, Low-Income Women Had More Babies

[Guest end3]

 

 

Lil, SL,

 

I guess what females are challenged with is something that is going to become a human being...in the process of becoming. To me, it doesn't matter the stage.

 

Not sure I have thought out all the possibilities of killing for selfish reasons, but from the outset, it seems wrong. Don't know why we are allowed killing before birth when we consider it a crime post birth.

 

End, you have to remember that to some people a baby isn't a baby until air hits it.  Kind of like man didn't become a living soul until it received the breath of life in Genesis.

 

Are these the same?

 

I think this illustrates my point somewhat. How could we understand the effect of plant B on humanity if humanity kills plant A before it ever becomes plant B? But I CAN say that through experience that plant B has grown poison fruit and I need to not allow it to grow in my garden.

[Guest end3]

The problem is that Jesus is the greatest abortionist of them all.  And God doesn't stop just with the unborn.  God is constantly torturing all kinds of children to death.  If you create this imaginary person and attribute all the power to him then he must be responsible for all that happens.  It makes far more sense to accept that there is no God, or at least not any kind of God that Christians imagine.

I think I just said by "God's appointment". From a theological standpoint, it's all based on what God would have us experience and His reasons for giving or taking life. As we have "argued" before, what is "good" except through some set of rules that we faithfully live by.

[mymistake]

 

 

 

Lilith, mm, and StillLooking,

 

Look around once in awhile. People die and are buried every day by the thousands with no police investigation. That argument is crap.

See Lilith's answer above.

 

 

 

Clearly duderonomy is trolling.  Maybe in third wold countries people get murdered and the police don't care.  In developed countries the police investigate murders.  Duderonomy cannot support his position with arguments so he resorts to parlor tricks and calls foul when his antics get no respect.

 

 

Not every death is a murder, whatever country it happens in, and when it comes to "resorting" to anything, that would be you with the name calling and pitiful accusations.  

 

 

 

No, I actually made arguments that demonstrates why your position is wrong.  Instead of dealing with the facts you choose to ignore them and construct straw man fallacies.

 

 

Case in point:  I never said "every death is a murder".  Pointing out that "not every death is a murder" is irrelevant.  This was never a disputed point and doesn't address anything I said.  It only wastes time and distracts.  You would have us think that if you wake up one day and your roommate had died in the night you could just drag them out in the back yard and bury them without telling anybody and the government would be totally cool with that.  After all nobody investigates people dying because not every death is murder?  Coroners actually exist.

 

Your position is untenable.

[mymistake]

 

The problem is that Jesus is the greatest abortionist of them all.  And God doesn't stop just with the unborn.  God is constantly torturing all kinds of children to death.  If you create this imaginary person and attribute all the power to him then he must be responsible for all that happens.  It makes far more sense to accept that there is no God, or at least not any kind of God that Christians imagine.

I think I just said by "God's appointment". From a theological standpoint, it's all based on what God would have us experience and His reasons for giving or taking life. As we have "argued" before, what is "good" except through some set of rules that we faithfully live by.

 

 

 

You would turn the universe into Kim Jong Un's communist North Korea where we must all worship the dictator and accept it when that dictator arbitrarily decides to execute a few of us "for kicks".  Right and wrong are whatever Kim Jong Un says they are.

[StillLooking]

 

 

 

Lil, SL,

 

I guess what females are challenged with is something that is going to become a human being...in the process of becoming. To me, it doesn't matter the stage.

 

Not sure I have thought out all the possibilities of killing for selfish reasons, but from the outset, it seems wrong. Don't know why we are allowed killing before birth when we consider it a crime post birth.

End, you have to remember that to some people a baby isn't a baby until air hits it. Kind of like man didn't become a living soul until it received the breath of life in Genesis.

Are these the same?

I think this illustrates my point somewhat. How could we understand the effect of plant B on humanity if humanity kills plant A before it ever becomes plant B? But I CAN say that through experience that plant B has grown poison fruit and I need to not allow it to grow in my garden.

The answer is we don't know. We will not know the answer to what if questions. How can you be sure plant B is not useful to others? I am sure all insects think birds as big bad creatures but birds are important for different creatures. are you sure all those criminals not going to regret and repent?

[Guest end3]

 

 

 

 

Lil, SL,

 

I guess what females are challenged with is something that is going to become a human being...in the process of becoming. To me, it doesn't matter the stage.

 

Not sure I have thought out all the possibilities of killing for selfish reasons, but from the outset, it seems wrong. Don't know why we are allowed killing before birth when we consider it a crime post birth.

End, you have to remember that to some people a baby isn't a baby until air hits it. Kind of like man didn't become a living soul until it received the breath of life in Genesis.

 

Are these the same?

 

I think this illustrates my point somewhat. How could we understand the effect of plant B on humanity if humanity kills plant A before it ever becomes plant B? But I CAN say that through experience that plant B has grown poison fruit and I need to not allow it to grow in my garden.

 

The answer is we don't know. We will not know the answer to what if questions. How can you be sure plant B is not useful to others? I am sure all insects think birds as big bad creatures but birds are important for different creatures. are you sure all those criminals not going to regret and repent?

 

I just don't see the need for ruling out the what ifs for the sake of convenience. Plant B might be useful to others...but it was aborted.

 

Some might repent, some might not, but how will they ever know their path if they are not allowed to walk? I'm sorry SL, I just don't get nor agree with abortion per my theology.

[StillLooking]

It is okay if you disagree with abortion, don't get one then. Just don't restrict my right because I don't believe in your theology.

[Guest end3]

It is okay if you disagree with abortion, don't get one then. Just don't restrict my right because I don't believe in your theology.

My question to you is, why choose death?

[StillLooking]

 

It is okay if you disagree with abortion, don't get one then. Just don't restrict my right because I don't believe in your theology.

My question to you is, why choose death?

Because I don't have your theology to categorize it as death.

[StillLooking]

By the way the pictures that I posted are a picture of a sprouted pumpkin seed and a picture of a pumpkon vine. Are they the same?

[Guest end3]

 

 

It is okay if you disagree with abortion, don't get one then. Just don't restrict my right because I don't believe in your theology.

My question to you is, why choose death?

 

Because I don't have your theology to categorize it as death.

 

Kind of a copout answer SL. No need to elaborate

[Guest end3]

By the way the pictures that I posted are a picture of a sprouted pumpkin seed and a picture of a pumpkon vine. Are they the same?

None of us are the same...what's your point.

 

Not going to argue SL...I'm out of this conversation. I've given you my perspective. Thanks for the visit.

[StillLooking]

 

 

 

It is okay if you disagree with abortion, don't get one then. Just don't restrict my right because I don't believe in your theology.

My question to you is, why choose death?

Because I don't have your theology to categorize it as death.

Kind of a copout answer SL. No need to elaborate

? Your version of having fingers in ears while saying lalalala.

[StillLooking]

 

By the way the pictures that I posted are a picture of a sprouted pumpkin seed and a picture of a pumpkon vine. Are they the same?

None of us are the same...what's your point.

 

Not going to argue SL...I'm out of this conversation. I've given you my perspective. Thanks for the visit.

I don't think I can have a discussion with you When you call a sprouted seed and a fully grown vine the same. Likewise, thank you for the visit.

[mymistake]

 

 

 

It is okay if you disagree with abortion, don't get one then. Just don't restrict my right because I don't believe in your theology.

My question to you is, why choose death?

 

Because I don't have your theology to categorize it as death.

 

Kind of a copout answer SL. No need to elaborate

 

 

 

No, it isn't.  Your argument is that we can't abort anybody because they might be useful to somebody.  There are over seven billion people on this planet.  We are breeding too much.  We are out stripping out resources.  Your arguments assume God is in control and God has a plan and God is the only one with the right to decide life or death.  The reality of the situation is that we are like bacteria in a petri dish and if we don't get our growth under control there will be a massive die off.  There is no God and no God's plan.

 

You see abortion as death of a person because your Bible tells you so but objectively a fetus is inside the mother, built by the mother and part of the mother. 

[Guest end3]

I guess what bothers me is that both of you seem to be saying that if we took MM or SL and reversed the growing process to the point where we couldn't recognize either of you, you would then say it's ok to kill that person. Is this accurate?

[BeauCat]

Birth control fights poverty. There's a pretty strong correlation between family planning and financial success.

[mymistake]

I guess what bothers me is that both of you seem to be saying that if we took MM or SL and reversed the growing process to the point where we couldn't recognize either of you, you would then say it's ok to kill that person. Is this accurate?

 

 

I don't understand.  It sounds like you are talking about science fiction.

 

 

 

Let me take a wild guess at the meaning:

 

It would have been perfectly ethical for my mother to kill me before I was born.  It would have been her call.  She didn't owe me life.

[Lilith666]

end3 is asking if it would be okay to kill you and StillLooking (and me too I guess) if we were all turned into fetuses. OK, end, I'll play. It would not be okay to turn us into fetuses in the first place because we are people. We have minds, lives, experiences, people we care about and who care about us. That is what gives us personhood. That is the difference between a person and a developing person in the uterus.

 

Before you ask why a fetus is not a person because there are people who care about it before it is born, I'll clarify that personhood status is about the organism's experiences: a person cares that others love him or her. A fetus is not aware of that. I can care about my favorite stuffed bunny, but that doesn't make him a person. Again, personhood depends on the organism's experiences of what I have highlighted above.

[Guest end3]

It's just ironic that y'all have a fit over God killing people but then simply reduce life down to an time sensitive arrangement of cells.

 

And then shouldn't it follow that you should accept reductionism?

[mymistake]

It's just ironic that y'all have a fit over God killing people but then simply reduce life down to an time sensitive arrangement of cells.

 

And then shouldn't it follow that you should accept reductionism?

 

You got it backwards.  You are the one calling a zygote a person.  I don't have a fit over God.  I recognize that God is fiction.  I use the Bible stories about God killing people to demonstrate that the Bible contradicts the Biblical claims that God loves people.

 

Perhaps we should talk about reductionism in a new thread?  This one is about why it was foolish for Texas to stop funding planed parenthood.  Abortions and birth control should be basic human rights provided at taxpayer expense.

[Guest end3]

end3 is asking if it would be okay to kill you and StillLooking (and me too I guess) if we were all turned into fetuses. OK, end, I'll play. It would not be okay to turn us into fetuses in the first place because we are people. We have minds, lives, experiences, people we care about and who care about us. That is what gives us personhood. That is the difference between a person and a developing person in the uterus.

 

Before you ask why a fetus is not a person because there are people who care about it before it is born, I'll clarify that personhood status is about the organism's experiences: a person cares that others love him or her. A fetus is not aware of that. I can care about my favorite stuffed bunny, but that doesn't make him a person. Again, personhood depends on the organism's experiences of what I have highlighted above.

So because a baby has no experience, it's ok to kill it? There is no experience pre birth?

 

I don't want to rehash all the stages because ALL the stages have experience.

[mymistake]

 

So because a baby has no experience, it's ok to kill it? There is no experience pre birth?

 

I don't want to rehash all the stages because ALL the stages have experience.

 

 

 

Not a baby, a fetus.  And not for just anybody.  Only the person who's body is making the fetus, only for the person the fetus is growing inside.  You keep ignoring the key details.

 

There are states with no experience.  A third trimester fetus has experienced noise in the dark and has no context to give it any meaning.  A first trimester fetus has experienced nothing.  A zygote has experienced nothing.

[BeauCat]

I'll just butt in here for a second, but I feel like end3, you are trying really hard to make fetuses or cells "people". If you believe life begins as early as...lets say fertilization, then probably any woman that has ever had children ever has aborted what you consider "children" naturally, including your own mother.

 

It's not like only one egg is only fertilized to create a pregnancy, multiple eggs get fertilized. Not every fertilized egg attaches to the womb and developed as a fetus which then develops as a "person" and is birthed. The fertilized eggs that don't make it are passed through the woman's body- the definition of an abortion. So basically a woman's body is aborting what some people (I suppose end3) would consider "babies", and it happens all the time.

 

So the biggest offender of "baby murder" is "nature's/God's design". Oh the humanity...?

[Guest end3]

I'll just butt in here for a second, but I feel like end3, you are trying really hard to make fetuses or cells "people". If you believe life begins as early as...lets say fertilization, then probably any woman that has ever had children ever has aborted what you consider "children" naturally, including your own mother.

 

It's not like only one egg is only fertilized to create a pregnancy, multiple eggs get fertilized. Not every fertilized egg attaches to the womb and developed as a fetus which then develops as a "person" and is birthed. The fertilized eggs that don't make it are passed through the woman's body- the definition of an abortion. So basically a woman's body is aborting what some people (I suppose end3) would consider "babies", and it happens all the time.

 

So the biggest offender of "baby murder" is "nature's/God's design". Oh the humanity...?

I can't define it K. I just feel intervening in the process to stop the process is not our call.