"gay Marriage Is Icky."

[MrSpooky]

Now, this guy was actually looking for a genuine critique of his position, but it doesn't keep it from being fucking stupid and shallow. It's like he put no thought into his opinions whatsoever.

 

Literally.

 

 

I've been reading a lot about this proposition 2 business. And boy, am I glad it passed. Not only because I happen to support it, but, well, it's really funny to watch those silly liberals get all annoyed and stuff. Funny like when you put a sock over a dog's head, and it gets all annoyed, and goes nuts rolling all over the place trying to pull the sock off. Heehee, makes me giggle just thinking about it. What can I say. It's fun to annoy lesser creatures.

 

*cough*

 

Anyway. Before all you silly rolling-around annoyed liberals get too pissy and angry at me, let me make sure I understand the crux of your argument, and then explain where I'm coming from.

 

(And also let me know if I get anything wrong. I'd hate to think that I support prop 2 because I misunderstand the opposing side's views.)

 

You say that homosexuality is natural. In fact, some scientists even claim to have found to a genetic trait which, when identified, indicates whether or not a certain individual is prone to homosexuality. In addition, gay marriage would not have a negative impact on anyone. It has not corrupted society; Queer Eye didn't suddenly produce a bunch dysfunctional children, or cause physical pain, or lead to emotional suffering, or anything like that. What, exactly, could be considered so wrong about homosexuality that causes some people to want to deny them basic rights? Homosexuals aren't lesser human beings. It would seem to follow, naturally, that same sex marriages (or civil unions, at least) are normal and natural, and should (obviously) be allowed by government.

 

(Again, let me know if I've missed anything.)

 

Now, all that being said, I must politely and respectfully disagree.

 

Yes, the premises leading to the conclusion may be true. Homosexuality may be natural, in that, well, it's a force of nature. Homosexuality never killed anyone. Homosexual parents don't automatically raise dysfunctional, confused children.

 

But none of this makes homosexuality moral.

 

Homosexuality, in my mind, is analogous to incest.

 

What makes incest immoral? What's wrong with, say, two brothers falling in love with each other and having sex? Well, I have to admit, I don't honestly know. It's just wrong.

 

Some would say that certain guys can not help it when they get a boner looking at their brothers or sisters. And two brothers cramming it up the ass wouldn't hurt me in any conceivable way.

 

But that still doesn't make incest moral.

 

All I know is that when someone mentions incest, I get a sick, hollow feeling deep in my chest and I want to puke. Incest is immoral. Period. And if anyone were to ask me why I thought that way, I would tell them that, well, it just obviously is immoral, and that's the end of the story.

 

And that's exactly how I feel about homosexuality. It's immoral. Period.

 

And until someone can convince me that things like polygamy, bestiality, and incest are moral, I'll continue to vote in support of laws that outlaw such things.

 

Thankfully, we live in a democratic society, and 75% of the voting population agrees with me.

[scitsofreaky]

My critique:

:angry:

Homosexuality, in my mind, is analogous to incest.

Why?

And that's exactly how I feel about homosexuality. It's immoral. Period

Why?

He just talks about why he doesn't like incest. He never says why he thinks homosexuality is analogous to incest.

Is this fallacious? I'm thinking either Red Harring or Strawman, but I'm not sure.

[white_raven23]

I hope this toad is sterile.

 

Hell I hope he's flat out impotent.

 

 

Interesting he would compare it to incest so specifically. One must wonder what life experience he's had that inspires such a connection.

 

Maybe his little brother or sister might have something to say about the matter too.

[MrSpooky]

I really think it's this quote that sells it:

 

"What makes incest immoral? What's wrong with, say, two brothers falling in love with each other and having sex? Well, I have to admit, I don't honestly know. It's just wrong."

 

It's not flawed argumentation, it's that he has NO ARGUMENTATION AT ALL. At least most anti-Gay-Marriage Republicans will provide some sort of reasoning, even if I think it's flawed. This guy has NONE and doesn't seem to think any is required.

[pitchu]

He'd probably get gutsick thinking about adultery, too, because obviously the poor sensitive creature has dire somatic reactions to immorality. And if it were immoral, by his standards it would have to be made illegal. So I guess divorce would have to be enforced in adultery cases, right?

 

If we just stick with his solutions we'll have this planet cleaned up in no time!

[Caretaker]

I hope this toad is sterile.

 

Hell I hope he's flat out impotent.

Or better yet... Gay?

[Onyx]

I'm pro whatever tickles you as long as it doesn't harm anyone marriages.

I'm not a fan of rape orientated/ pedophilic/ bestiality marriages.

That's my view.

Rant all you like, fundachristofascists but all these GLBT people want on to your straight act and with good reason. They've waited too long.

[Angel]

I just do not get how he thinks homosexuality and insest is the same thing?

I remember one time I was having a conversation with someone, they were saying that they did not want any gay teachers in the system. I was like, "Why?" Her answer was, "Would you want a homosexual around your children?" I was like, WTF?

I do not see how some people think right away that it equals to child molesting? I mean, I am not gay, but I have known some people that are and they would never do anything of the sort.

Instead of worrying about a gay teacher around the children, maybe they (christians) should pay more attention to the priests and preachers that take advantage of children.

Just because someone is gay, does not mean that they are going to molest their brother or sister, or any other child for that matter. The ignorance of some people is mind boggling.

[charley]

The person who is the subject of this thread is what I would characterize as being a "true believer", who is not only closed-minded but passionately disinterested in thinking on any issue. Why? The answer is shown in his comment about putting a sock over a dogs head, describing "...it's fun to torment lesser creatures...". When one is "moral", they feel superior, and filter all seen and heard from those deemed less than they as nothing important.

The best way to combat these people iis public ridicule, as that is their mode of reassurance, noted in him reflecting that most Americans agree with him. Safety in numbers for the frightened herd members. When that turns against them, because they have no independent resources, they will become like dogs with socks on their heads.

 

I hate people like this. Where did you find this asshole? I want to confront this one.

[LadyFeline]

I hate people like this. Where did you find this asshole? I want to confront this one.

It's as simple as a Google search, my friend Just do a search for the last four sentences of the first paragraph. It ought to bring it up as the first result. You'll have to go to the second page of the site, though, but it's hard to miss.

[Anakin]

Well you know what they say, "4 out of 5 southern baptist divorcees agree; gay marriages

would ruin the sanctity of marriage". My coworkers hate it when I say that when they get

on their anti gay marriage soapboxes.

[☆ TexasFreethinker ☆]

This guy has so many problems in his "logic" that it's hard to know where to start. My comments are in blue...

 

I've been reading a lot about this proposition 2 business. And boy, am I glad it passed. Not only because I happen to support it, but, well, it's really funny to watch those silly liberals get all annoyed and stuff. Funny like when you put a sock over a dog's head, and it gets all annoyed, and goes nuts rolling all over the place trying to pull the sock off. Heehee, makes me giggle just thinking about it. What can I say. It's fun to annoy lesser creatures.

 

*cough*

 

The preceding immoral statements brought to you by a guy who's about to tell us what's moral and what's not. Whatever...

 

Anyway. Before all you silly rolling-around annoyed liberals get too pissy and angry at me, let me make sure I understand the crux of your argument, and then explain where I'm coming from.

 

(And also let me know if I get anything wrong. I'd hate to think that I support prop 2 because I misunderstand the opposing side's views.)

 

You say that homosexuality is natural. In fact, some scientists even claim to have found to a genetic trait which, when identified, indicates whether or not a certain individual is prone to homosexuality. In addition, gay marriage would not have a negative impact on anyone. It has not corrupted society; Queer Eye didn't suddenly produce a bunch dysfunctional children, or cause physical pain, or lead to emotional suffering, or anything like that. What, exactly, could be considered so wrong about homosexuality that causes some people to want to deny them basic rights? Homosexuals aren't lesser human beings. It would seem to follow, naturally, that same sex marriages (or civil unions, at least) are normal and natural, and should (obviously) be allowed by government.

 

(Again, let me know if I've missed anything.)

 

Now, all that being said, I must politely and respectfully disagree.

 

Yes, the premises leading to the conclusion may be true. Homosexuality may be natural, in that, well, it's a force of nature. Homosexuality never killed anyone. Homosexual parents don't automatically raise dysfunctional, confused children.

 

But none of this makes homosexuality moral.

 

Homosexuality, in my mind, is analogous to incest.

 

What makes incest immoral? What's wrong with, say, two brothers falling in love with each other and having sex? Well, I have to admit, I don't honestly know. It's just wrong.

 

There you have it. The definitive answer from someone who's thought through the issue. "I don't know why it's wrong - it just is. Period. End of story." Intellectual giant IMHO.

 

Some would say that certain guys can not help it when they get a boner looking at their brothers or sisters. And two brothers cramming it up the ass wouldn't hurt me in any conceivable way.

 

But that still doesn't make incest moral.

 

All I know is that when someone mentions incest, I get a sick, hollow feeling deep in my chest and I want to puke. Incest is immoral. Period. And if anyone were to ask me why I thought that way, I would tell them that, well, it just obviously is immoral, and that's the end of the story.

 

And that's exactly how I feel about homosexuality. It's immoral. Period.

 

And until someone can convince me that things like polygamy, bestiality, and incest are moral, I'll continue to vote in support of laws that outlaw such things.

 

In our society which is supposedly based on individual freedoms, the "morality" of an action isn't enough to determine whether or not it should be outlawed. For example, many people may think that smoking is immoral since it harms your body. Overeating does the same thing, so it may be immoral as well. Many people think that having sex outside of marriage is immoral. Others think that sex and/or marriage between races is immoral. Yet, we (wisely) don't outlaw these things. That's because we value the freedom of the individual above an attempt to codify all morality into laws. In our society, laws are made primarily to prevent people from harming each other. We leave the other choices up to the individual. When you try to use the government to enforce all morals you now have a theocracy or totalitarian state.

 

I strongly disagree that homosexuality is immoral. But, for people who think that it is, that's not a strong enough reason to outlaw it for others. If you think homosexuality is immoral then don't practice it yourself but let others make that decision for themselves.

 

Thankfully, we live in a democratic society, and 75% of the voting population agrees with me.

 

Actually, we DON'T live in a democracy. We live in a Constitutional Republic because the founding fathers were justifiably worried about people like the guy who posted this message. Our system was set up to help ensure that the rights of minorities would be protected even if 75% of the population was swayed by a current fad or passion to try to restrict the rights of minorities. The rights guaranteed in the Constitution take precedent over the whims of the majority.

 

[Lycorth]

It all comes down to the fact that right-leaning folks can't divorce themselves from Xianity, and Xianity with all its anti-gay prejudices is what fuels their beliefs. If Xianity had never come to Europe, people like this "homosexuality = incest" guy would simply not believe the way they do.

 

I had to laugh at that analogy. Maybe I'd have some critique of it to offer if he actually tried to draw some comparisions, but he just went on about incest and only said a few words about homosexuality - words he clearly pulled out of his ass.

 

He admits he "doesn't know" why something is wrong, but it's got to be wrong, gosh darnit. The only argument I can sympathize somewhat with is when people say "homosexual sex doesn't lead to childbirth, which is impractical for a species that needs to reproduce to survive, hence it is wrong." Of course, I don't agree, but I held that belief for a long time; but since humans aren't strictly practical creatures only concerned with survival and procreation, we have a somewhat different system of ethics to go by. "And it harm none, do as thou wilt" - I may not be Wiccan, but this little maxim really sums up the crux of basic human morality, I think.

 

Basically, he says he doesn't know what's wrong with it because he inherently knows that unless someone is doing harm to someone else, their activities can't be all that bad. But his programming and the little world he lives in don't permit him to say that. We can only hope that people like this continue to beat their drum like they do, because one day the drum will break - I know from experience.

[RHEMtron]

yeah... that was retarded.

 

next time you encounter someone like that person, ask them, "now are you straight because you are naturally attracted to a guy/girl, or becuase the bible says so?"

 

usually throws em off everytime.

[Amethyst]

He just thinks that something must be wrong because he thinks it is. That's not much of an argument.

 

So many people have this inherently negative image of homosexuality because they've been brainwashed all their lives that it's evil. When you're brainwashed, you can't see anything except what you're programmed to see.

 

I hope someday, he'll meet someone who turns his worldview upside down.

[Ex-COG]

I hope someday, he'll meet someone who turns his worldview upside down.

 

He'd be sooooo much healthier if he'd just admit it and get a boyfriend. That should flip him over nicely.

[Thurisaz]

Oh well, fundie brat of course has every right to find homosexual marriage "icky".

 

And he even has a right to bitch and moan about it.

 

As long as he respects the opinions of others and falls silent if the majority of people around tell him to shut up. Which we all know such numbnuts will not do.

[Amanda]

So this guy has an opinion. He's allowed his opinion. The problem is that these opinions that some require to be the social mentality and the law are killing people! It is sad when you find people commit suicide or become alcoholics/drug addicts because their parents/family have rejected them for being gay! The really sad issue is that many gays/lesbians think something is wrong with them, instead of knowing something is wrong with their family! When is this country going to stand up and accept what consenting people choose to do, that hurt no one, be able to have their right to be happy?

 

I'm curious as to how they justify the rejection of this law of allowing marriages for gay/lesbians, during government debate?!?

[MrSpooky]

I hope someday, he'll meet someone who turns his worldview upside down.

 

He'd be sooooo much healthier if he'd just admit it and get a boyfriend. That should flip him over nicely.

 

I'm sure it'd flip him over.

 

IN BED.

[charley]

Spooky, where is that article from?

[MrSpooky]

From another forum. The thread was locked down and deletored but I wanted this bit to remain.

 

And I shall never say from whence it came!

[charley]

...why?.....The only answer that comes to mind is what I suspected for some time - that you made the whole thing up. That's okay, but I'll know in the future that whatever you post should be ignored.

[MrSpooky]

Wow. I find that implication highly insulting.

 

If you want justification of why I won't cite sources in this instance, here it is: as stupid as that post was, the resulting thread was locked down and deleted for obvious reasons. I'm one for preserving instances of stupidity for the sake of entertainment and perhaps a moral or philosophical lesson (and I'll admit that it leans more towards the former). However, I also happen to respect anonymity and the fact that such a freedom isn't readily available on the internet anymore.

 

The thread has been locked down, it's been deleted, and in the eyes of those it concerns it should be an issue that is left behind us once the problem was recognized and remedied and I don't plan on bringing anyone else into the fray aside from telling this story as an amusing anecdote.

 

So treat it like one of those "horrible tech support" stories. Is it made up for the entertainment of others? You have every right to criticize and believe such, and since I'm not going to name names it's perfectly fair.

 

However, do NOT impugn my integrity on such shallow grounds. Skepticism is no excuse for insults.

[jrmarlin]

Heterosexual marriage is not threatened one ioda by Gay marriages so why do the Xians really give a shit? Its really no one else's business except for the ones getting married. I can't understand why anyone would have any problem with same-sex marriage. And if they do have a problem, fuck 'em. Their opinion is about as good as the pond scum that corrodes the water after a hurricane.

 

Xians are really just too nosey aren't they? As if they have nothing better to do than sit around and pot stir their whole lives.

[☆ TexasFreethinker ☆]

Xians are really just too nosey aren't they? As if they have nothing better to do than sit around and pot stir their whole lives.

The bible is fundamentally opposed to a society based on diversity and individual freedoms.

 

The bible says thou shalt have no other god before me. A free society says you can have whatever gods you want, or no gods at all.

 

The bible says those who aren't christians are worthy of an eternity in hell simply because they are human. A free and diverse society says all have worth and are deserving of happiness simply because they are human.

 

When fundamentalist christians attempt to use the government to force the rest of us to obey their religious laws they reveal their true feelings about personal liberties.