Timothew Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 I just can't anymore. When I was going to church, there were many there (possibly everyone there) who greatly admire Donald Trump. I was regularly admonished that it is "your duty as a Christian" to support Donald Trump. If they are so blind that they can't see that Donald Trump is a bad man, I can't be part of their group. If the blind lead the blind, then both will fall into a pit. I just can't. I just can't be part of that anymore. I prayed for years that the church would see the truth, but it is just like praying to a stone. A really really deaf stone. Praying to a stone would be better because at least I can see the stone. I can't see God anywhere. My wife doesn't know and I'm not telling her. She knows I don't go to that church (or any church) anymore and she knows it is because of their blind faith in the orange gilded idiot idol. She doesn't need to know that I don't know if God exists or not. I just can't anymore. Can't anything. Also, I'm a bit depressed. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 43 minutes ago, Timothew said: I just can't anymore. When I was going to church, there were many there (possibly everyone there) who greatly admire Donald Trump. I was regularly admonished that it is "your duty as a Christian" to support Donald Trump. If they are so blind that they can't see that Donald Trump is a bad man, I can't be part of their group. If the blind lead the blind, then both will fall into a pit. I just can't. I just can't be part of that anymore. I prayed for years that the church would see the truth, but it is just like praying to a stone. A really really deaf stone. Praying to a stone would be better because at least I can see the stone. I can't see God anywhere. My wife doesn't know and I'm not telling her. She knows I don't go to that church (or any church) anymore and she knows it is because of their blind faith in the orange gilded idiot idol. She doesn't need to know that I don't know if God exists or not. I just can't anymore. Can't anything. Also, I'm a bit depressed. Yet it probably wasnt your churchly duty to support politicians of the opposite party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOHO Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 Welcome to the forums, @Timothew. Glad you found us. Each day I experience the irrational group think of the moral majority. Mrs. MOHO is hopelessly indoctrinated and defends Mr. Trump with a passion and contempt for those who point out policy and/or rhetoric from the White House that may be wanting. I am neither pro or con when it comes to our colorful leader but tend to praise good decisions and criticize bad. The relentless and unbending support of Mr. Trump and the GOP from the fundamentalists among us, however, is an indication that a very large portion of those of this persuasion tend to go along with group think. I admire the concept of sticking together as solidarity is powerful but I think it's important not to treat leaders as perfect or infallible or incapable of making mistakes that require criticism from the masses in order to keep some leaders in check. That said I don't believe that strong support of an imperfect public official, in and of itself, is a reason to eschew any particular religion but if this prompts you to question and research and learn - so be it! - MOHO (Mind Of His Own) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
older Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 Welcome Timothew. Yeah, it's tough, but know that you are not alone; there are others who have left for the same reasons. And all the chaos with the virus makes it worse. Feel free to dump here whenever and as much as you want to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ Weezer ◊ Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 WELCOME! It is a depressing time, but do your best to HANG IN THERE! I have to keep busy with different projects to keep my mind off all the stuff going on, and the fact that many of our relatives are Christian and support Trump. I am lucky that my wife sees him for what he is and writes numerous letters to our congressmen in an effort head off some of his policies and ideas. Poke around here on the forum and read out TESTIMONIALS if you are questioning religion. My step by step story of leaving the church is called, Truth: A Gradual Awakening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 Indeed, it's mind-boggling how many people are gung-ho for the orange moron. Even when I was a fervent believer who mostly aligned with the religious right, I would not have thought highly of this buffoon we have now. He's the most arrogant, self-centered, egotistical, lying-ass sack-of-shit president we've ever had, at least in my lifetime. He's a downright horrible person, and I'm glad that my still-religious wife sees that and can't stand him. What gets me is the sheer hypocrisy of so many on the religious right. Even my own father, who is a very honest man who would never knowingly lie to someone, has been hypocritical on this issue. When talking about Bill Clinton, many times I've heard him say, "How could anyone vote for such a man?" Yet, along came Donald Trump, who is clearly worse, and dad voted for him and plans to vote for him again. It's mind-boggling. To be fair, my dad doesn't really like Trump as a person, but he supports him because he caters to the religious right. It's still hypocritical, though, given how he talked about Clinton. People I work with bashed Obama constantly but think Trump is the greatest thing ever. I definitely didn't agree with everything Obama did, but at least he's a decent person. No matter how hard they tried, they were never able to dig up any real character-smashing dirt on him. You don't even have to do any digging to see that Trump is a pathetic person, but those right-wingers who hated Obama just bury their heads in the sand with Trump. Ironically, I even heard a coworker claim that he's never seen a president attacked as much as Trump, despite the fact that they were all attacking Obama non-stop the whole time he was in office. Although I don't agree with every attack on Trump, a lot of it is clearly justified, whereas their attacks on Obama were mostly unjustified. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
older Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Citsonga said: What gets me is the sheer hypocrisy of so many on the religious right Hypocrisy is inherent in Christianity, politics notwithstanding. I would enjoy the opportunity to ask a Christian Trump supporter to explain to me how Trump exemplifies "Christian values." And I'm not thinking of conservative vs. liberal — there are positives and negatives at all points along the spectrum. I'm thinking in terms of basic human decency. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothew Posted May 3, 2020 Author Share Posted May 3, 2020 I'm not sure how to use this forum, but thank you all for your kind replies. You said it best when you said it is the sheer hypocrisy, Wouldn't a god cause his people to be better than that? Why not? Doesn't care? Isn't able? They aren't "his people"? The god doesn't exist? It must be one of these and any one of these suggests that I shouldn't be part of that group. It strongly suggests that their claims are not true. I didn't leave Christianity over politics. The politics of Trumpianity exposes the flaws in their religion. I'm done with blind faith. Nobody who claims to have all the answers should expect blindness from their followers. If their religion is true, show me proof. Otherwise why should I bother with their religion? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothew Posted May 3, 2020 Author Share Posted May 3, 2020 On 5/1/2020 at 3:22 PM, midniterider said: Yet it probably wasnt your churchly duty to support politicians of the opposite party. Exactly so. When I told the pastor that I had problems with everyone in the church following Trump, he said "I know how you feel, I felt the same way when Obama was elected." I didn't say this to him, but NO! That isn't the same at all. When the pastor opposed Obama, everyone in the church was right there with him in his opposition. I was all alone in the church in not wanting to follow Donald Trump. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOHO Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 58 minutes ago, Timothew said: Exactly so. When I told the pastor that I had problems with everyone in the church following Trump, he said "I know how you feel, I felt the same way when Obama was elected." I didn't say this to him, but NO! That isn't the same at all. When the pastor opposed Obama, everyone in the church was right there with him in his opposition. I was all alone in the church in not wanting to follow Donald Trump. Hey, @Timothew, I doubt, very seriously, that you were truly alone in your political opinions at any point. What you experienced was a bunch of beat-down frady-cats not wanting to stand up and say that the king has no clothes. Might I go out on a limb and suggest that maybe there is a little part of Timothew that kinda enjoys being the only one to "buck the system" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothew Posted May 3, 2020 Author Share Posted May 3, 2020 32 minutes ago, MOHO said: Hey, @Timothew, I doubt, very seriously, that you were truly alone in your political opinions at any point. What you experienced was a bunch of beat-down frady-cats not wanting to stand up and say that the king has no clothes. Might I go out on a limb and suggest that maybe there is a little part of Timothew that kinda enjoys being the only one to "buck the system" ? I'm not sure how anyone would know if I was truly alone. All I can say for sure is that I was there and nobody was volunteering to be tied to the stake with me! Perhaps you are correct. Can you tell me how you know this? In reality, I would much rather have a support team than have to go it alone and buck the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ Weezer ◊ Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Timothew said: All I can say for sure is that I was there and nobody was volunteering to be tied to the stake with me! In the churches I attended down through the decades there were always several who were wishy/washy and couldn't think for themselves, wouldn't speak up, and just went with flow of what the minister or elders said. Like sheep being led to the slaughter. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
older Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 3 hours ago, Timothew said: I'm not sure how to use this forum, but thank you all for your kind replies. You said it best when you said it is the sheer hypocrisy, Wouldn't a god cause his people to be better than that? Why not? Doesn't care? Isn't able? They aren't "his people"? The god doesn't exist? It must be one of these and any one of these suggests that I shouldn't be part of that group. It strongly suggests that their claims are not true. I didn't leave Christianity over politics. The politics of Trumpianity exposes the flaws in their religion. I'm done with blind faith. Nobody who claims to have all the answers should expect blindness from their followers. If their religion is true, show me proof. Otherwise why should I bother with their religion? A home run for Timothew!! Hit that one clean out of the park and into the lagoon! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 3 hours ago, Timothew said: Exactly so. When I told the pastor that I had problems with everyone in the church following Trump, he said "I know how you feel, I felt the same way when Obama was elected." I didn't say this to him, but NO! That isn't the same at all. When the pastor opposed Obama, everyone in the church was right there with him in his opposition. I was all alone in the church in not wanting to follow Donald Trump. Being not of this world ... why would these people care about political parties? 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothew Posted May 4, 2020 Author Share Posted May 4, 2020 17 hours ago, older said: A home run for Timothew!! Hit that one clean out of the park and into the lagoon! Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothew Posted May 4, 2020 Author Share Posted May 4, 2020 17 hours ago, midniterider said: Being not of this world ... why would these people care about political parties? Yes, you would think so. Or at least claiming to be not of this world...at the bare minimum "pretend" that they don't care about political parties. Don't wear caps with trump's name on their foreheads while pretending to be "not of this world." Wouldn't wearing a trump cap while "worshiping god" expose where a person's loyalties really are? They really did this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothew Posted May 4, 2020 Author Share Posted May 4, 2020 On 5/2/2020 at 9:41 AM, Citsonga said: Indeed, it's mind-boggling how many people are gung-ho for the orange moron. Even when I was a fervent believer who mostly aligned with the religious right, I would not have thought highly of this buffoon we have now. He's the most arrogant, self-centered, egotistical, lying-ass sack-of-shit president we've ever had, at least in my lifetime. He's a downright horrible person, and I'm glad that my still-religious wife sees that and can't stand him. What gets me is the sheer hypocrisy of so many on the religious right. Even my own father, who is a very honest man who would never knowingly lie to someone, has been hypocritical on this issue. When talking about Bill Clinton, many times I've heard him say, "How could anyone vote for such a man?" Yet, along came Donald Trump, who is clearly worse, and dad voted for him and plans to vote for him again. It's mind-boggling. To be fair, my dad doesn't really like Trump as a person, but he supports him because he caters to the religious right. It's still hypocritical, though, given how he talked about Clinton. People I work with bashed Obama constantly but think Trump is the greatest thing ever. I definitely didn't agree with everything Obama did, but at least he's a decent person. No matter how hard they tried, they were never able to dig up any real character-smashing dirt on him. You don't even have to do any digging to see that Trump is a pathetic person, but those right-wingers who hated Obama just bury their heads in the sand with Trump. Ironically, I even heard a coworker claim that he's never seen a president attacked as much as Trump, despite the fact that they were all attacking Obama non-stop the whole time he was in office. Although I don't agree with every attack on Trump, a lot of it is clearly justified, whereas their attacks on Obama were mostly unjustified. Citsonga, (I'm still working out how to use this forum, sorry for quoting your whole post) I read your "extimony". I can relate. I mean really, your story is my story too. You had more success musically than I did, but that's a minor difference. I hope things are working out for you and your family. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothew Posted May 4, 2020 Author Share Posted May 4, 2020 21 hours ago, Weezer said: In the churches I attended down through the decades there were always several who were wishy/washy and couldn't think for themselves, wouldn't speak up, and just went with flow of what the minister or elders said. Like sheep being led to the slaughter. That's true. I guess that if I wish to be completely accurate, I should say "I searched and found no evidence for any person (aside from my wife and myself) who attends P****** Church in B*********, Wisconsin who are not Trump supporters." I also asked one of the pastors to provide evidence of such a person and he was also unable to come up with any evidence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOHO Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 23 hours ago, Timothew said: I'm not sure how anyone would know if I was truly alone. All I can say for sure is that I was there and nobody was volunteering to be tied to the stake with me! Perhaps you are correct. Can you tell me how you know this? In reality, I would much rather have a support team than have to go it alone and buck the system. @Timothew, I was making an observation based on my own experiences wherein one-on-one conversations have revealed doubt and pretend in the ranks. Also based on the pastor at Mrs. MOHO' church when I attended calling out the ~50% (that's what the man said) in the pews who were not believers. I'm sure you are aware that your are not truly alone. If you really feel that way I encourage you to speak candidly with friends from church - away from church settings - might be enlightening. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOHO Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 42 minutes ago, Timothew said: That's true. I guess that if I wish to be completely accurate, I should say "I searched and found no evidence for any person (aside from my wife and myself) who attends P****** Church in B*********, Wisconsin who are not Trump supporters." I also asked one of the pastors to provide evidence of such a person and he was also unable to come up with any evidence. I spoke with two from church (man and wife) during that last election campaign cycle who were definitely NOT Trump supporters. They no longer attend and dropped out before I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 4 hours ago, Timothew said: Yes, you would think so. Or at least claiming to be not of this world...at the bare minimum "pretend" that they don't care about political parties. Don't wear caps with trump's name on their foreheads while pretending to be "not of this world." Wouldn't wearing a trump cap while "worshiping god" expose where a person's loyalties really are? They really did this. The few I have taken this angle with seem very much 'of the world' and concerned about family and future for some reason. Almost like they don't trust that Jebus is guiding them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOHO Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 23 hours ago, Timothew said: In reality, I would much rather have a support team than have to go it alone and buck the system. I apologize for my assumption. Support team granted... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOHO Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 My take on the perceived hypocrisy of fundies support of Mr. Trump is due to the doctrine wherein one can claim belief and be absolved of any "sins" - his being adultery and being a habitual lire. At the risk of another assumption on my part Mr. Trump seems to have proclaimed to be an xtian as he comprehends the chances of receiving the GOP nod without the backing of the Moral Majority. And with that I think I have inadvertently hijack @Timothew 's post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothew Posted May 4, 2020 Author Share Posted May 4, 2020 1 hour ago, MOHO said: My take on the perceived hypocrisy of fundies support of Mr. Trump is due to the doctrine wherein one can claim belief and be absolved of any "sins" - his being adultery and being a habitual lire. At the risk of another assumption on my part Mr. Trump seems to have proclaimed to be an xtian as he comprehends the chances of receiving the GOP nod without the backing of the Moral Majority. And with that I think I have inadvertently hijack @Timothew 's post. I don't mind. Thanks for your assistance. I post a little bit, but I read a lot. The people here have gone through what I am going through. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothew Posted October 23, 2020 Author Share Posted October 23, 2020 Can I just vent here? I mean, is it allowed? I think it might be good to write down the crap that is bothering me so that I don't have to think about it all the time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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