MAYBE WE WERE MADE IN GOD'S IMAGE!!

[◊ Weezer ◊]

If you consider the god of the Old Testament, maybe we WERE made in his image, and in ways other than physical.   Especially if you think about some of our thinking and actions compared to his jealousy, narcissism, wars and genocide.  And impregnating virgins.  I've know some guys who delight in doing that.  Can you think of other ways we are like him?  (at least some of us)

 

And heck, most of us have never done stuff as bad as he has.  

[older]

Interesting question, and perhaps a good comeback to the xians: "Yes, we were made in God's image. Narcissistic, evil, cruel and sadistic."

 

While you are looking for things that are not physical, being a mechanical person I sometimes think about the God's image issue in terms of the human body, and how if I were a professor of mechanical engineering and a student of mine came to me with the design for the human body, I'd have to give him no better than a D.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

Some time back I heard speculation that ETs in ancient times (seen as gods by primitive humans) decided to use DNA to modify those primitive human forms so they could be used as slaves and servants, and decided to make them look like themselves.  But it eventually backfired when their sons found them sexually attractive and wound up taking them for wives.  And then (on the sly)? their DNA was modified further so they could reproduce, and their kids eventually became ----- US.    

 

 

[duderonomy]

On 11/21/2022 at 9:59 PM, Weezer said:

If you consider the god of the Old Testament, maybe we WERE made in his image, and in ways other than physical.   Especially if you think about some of our thinking and actions compared to his jealousy, narcissism, wars and genocide.  And impregnating virgins.  I've know some guys who delight in doing that.  Can you think of other ways we are like him?  (at least some of us)

 

And heck, most of us have never done stuff as bad as he has.  

 

Of course we were made in his image.  What's the big deal?

 

In my fundiest days I never thought that meant physical image. 

[LogicalFallacy]

To paraphrase Sagan (I think it was Sagan) "Man was not made in god's image, but god was made in man's image."

 

That is why god appears so human, given to emotions like anger and jealousy, prone to violence, and appearing generally as a big dick.

[alreadyGone]

On 11/23/2022 at 12:52 AM, duderonomy said:

.....

In my fundiest days I never thought that meant physical image. 

 

I've asked more than one believer what exactly it means to be "born in God's image"... physical, mental, spiritual?

I never received a straight answer. It was clear to me that none had really given it much thought.

 

The bible declares clearly that we can never know the mind of God.

If the answer is "spiritual image" then that opens the "what exactly is a spirit?" can of worms.

 

I'm pretty damned certain that I personally am not created in the physical image of any God.

 

 

[older]

3 hours ago, alreadyGone said:

...

 

I'm pretty damned certain that I personally am not created in the physical image of any God.

 

 

  

Me neither. Skinny legs, bald spot and a prostate problem.

[duderonomy]

On 11/29/2022 at 9:19 PM, LogicalFallacy said:

To paraphrase Sagan (I think it was Sagan) "Man was not made in god's image, but god was made in man's image."

 

That is why god appears so human, given to emotions like anger and jealousy, prone to violence, and appearing generally as a big dick.

 

Hey LF!   Sagan is your guide to truth about deities now?  Who knew!

 

Also, hello old friend.

 

 

[LogicalFallacy]

23 hours ago, duderonomy said:

 

Hey LF!   Sagan is your guide to truth about deities now?  Who knew!

 

Also, hello old friend.

 

 

 

Hey Dude. Hello to you too - keeping well? If you ever get the chance to come to NZ let me know - we'll have to meet. Reminisce about the 'good old days' at ex c  

 

Re Sagan I don't think (I hope I don't) I have "guides to truth", and I certainly don't accept the concept of a TRUTH (TM). But I think there are things that are true. Does that make sense?

 

I find Sagan in that particular instance have nicely and succinctly stated what I think it's true about gods - that is that they are all human inventions, made for various reasons. All evidence I have come across thus far leads me to that conclusion.

[duderonomy]

Yeah, the good old days.

 

 

[pantheory]

On 11/21/2022 at 6:59 PM, Weezer said:

If you consider the god of the Old Testament, maybe we WERE made in his image, and in ways other than physical.   Especially if you think about some of our thinking and actions compared to his jealousy, narcissism, wars and genocide.  And impregnating virgins.  I've know some guys who delight in doing that.  Can you think of other ways we are like him?  (at least some of us)

 

And heck, most of us have never done stuff as bad as he has.  

 

Weez, I know you're an agnostic so you do believe in the possibility of a Abrahamic God. The book of Genesis says  7 times that we were made in the Image of God, but Genesis is such a ridiculous Book in that most of it can be proven false beyond any possibility of validity. Since the discovery of natural selection more than 150 years ago, the last vestiges of Abrahamic religions were under suspicion, and since then via Evolution theory there are no longer any vestiges of truth in the wordings of Genesis -- all of it is entirely a fantasy IMHO.

 

The Bible goes on to repeat this "God's Image" assertion 30 more times in its writings. As said above, the truth is that a God is imagined, ridiculously  in man's image IMHO.

 

A good person like yourself might want to believe in the goodness of parts of the New Testament, maybe separate from the text, but to even consider the possibility of a God that looks like man is not even logical IMHO. But you're not alone; about 1/3rd the scientists in the western world claim to be Christians, another 1/5th say they are agnostic or of another religion, spiritual to some extent, or no answer-- only about 1/3rd or less claim to be atheists depending on the field of science.

 

https://www.openbible.info/topics/image_and_likeness_of_god

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2378023116664353

https://blog.oup.com/2019/12/why-scientists-should-be-atheists/

 

cheers anyway          

[Shinzon]

On 11/21/2022 at 9:59 PM, Weezer said:

If you consider the god of the Old Testament, maybe we WERE made in his image, and in ways other than physical.   Especially if you think about some of our thinking and actions compared to his jealousy, narcissism, wars and genocide.  And impregnating virgins.  I've know some guys who delight in doing that.  Can you think of other ways we are like him?  (at least some of us)

 

And heck, most of us have never done stuff as bad as he has.  

Its kind of why the old hitchens thing about "celestial north korea" fits.   I have always wanted to call judeochristian types the first stalinists, because if you compare something like holodomer to the bible the ethical thought process(for the lack of a better way of putting it) is identical.    Can't condemn one, without condeming the other in my mind.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

On 12/6/2022 at 11:34 AM, pantheory said:

 

Weez, I know you're an agnostic so you do believe in the possibility of a Abrahamic God. The book of Genesis says  7 times that we were made in the Image of God, but Genesis is such a ridiculous Book in that most of it can be proven false beyond any possibility of validity. Since the discovery of natural selection more than 150 years ago, the last vestiges of Abrahamic religions were under suspicion, and since then via Evolution theory there are no longer any vestiges of truth in the wordings of Genesis -- all of it is entirely a fantasy IMHO.

 

The Bible goes on to repeat this "God's Image" assertion 30 more times in its writings. As said above, the truth is that a God is imagined, ridiculously  in man's image IMHO.

 

A good person like yourself might want to believe in the goodness of parts of the New Testament, maybe separate from the text, but to even consider the possibility of a God that looks like man is not even logical IMHO. But you're not alone; about 1/3rd the scientists in the western world claim to be Christians, another 1/5th say they are agnostic or of another religion, spiritual to some extent, or no answer-- only about 1/3rd or less claim to be atheists depending on the field of science.

 

https://www.openbible.info/topics/image_and_likeness_of_god

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2378023116664353

https://blog.oup.com/2019/12/why-scientists-should-be-atheists/

 

cheers anyway          

I’m not sure I understand your post. 
No I don’t believe in abrahamic god.  Agnostic simply means “I don’t know”.  That whole post was a joke.  My belief as an agnostic is that if there is a “god/energy/force” responsible for jump starting the universe, it is not the biblical god.  Or perhaps it has always existed in some form???  I don’t know. 
 

i do believe there is some goodness and truth in the bible. the statement attributed to Jesus to “love neighbor as self” is an evidence based ideology that would improve humanity.  And I believe the love of money (power) is the root of most evil. And some other good advice can be cherry picked from the scripture.  Have I addressed what you were saying?

[pantheory]

52 minutes ago, Weezer said:

I’m not sure I understand your post. 
No I don’t believe in abrahamic god.  Agnostic simply means “I don’t know”.  That whole post was a joke.  My belief as an agnostic is that if there is a “god/energy/force” responsible for jump starting the universe, it is not the biblical god.  Or perhaps it has always existed in some form???  I don’t know. 
 

i do believe there is some goodness and truth in the bible. the statement attributed to Jesus to “love neighbor as self” is an evidence based ideology that would improve humanity.  And I believe the love of money (power) is the root of most evil. And some other good advice can be cherry picked from the scripture.  Have I addressed what you were saying?

 

An agnostic means there may or may not be a God, I don't know, right?

 

https://www.dictionary.com/e/atheism-agnosticism/

 

Goodness is great, and the possibility of some truth in the Bible sounds true to agnosticism

[older]

12 hours ago, pantheory said:

 

....

 

Goodness is great, and the possibility of some truth in the Bible sounds true to agnosticism

  

This is what gets me. The self-righteous bible folks too often think they have an exclusive on goodness, and that the only place to find it is in the bible. But there is stuff in the bible that is good and is also common to all cultures and religions. So if I am a good person and there really is a club in the sky for good people but I can't get in because I didn't get down on my knees and grovel to the narcissism of the bouncer at the door then I don't want to go there.

[pantheory]

16 minutes ago, older said:

  

This is what gets me. The self-righteous bible folks too often think they have an exclusive on goodness, and that the only place to find it is in the bible. But there is stuff in the bible that is good and is also common to all cultures and religions. So if I am a good person and there really is a club in the sky for good people but I can't get in because I didn't get down on my knees and grovel to the narcissism of the bouncer at the door then I don't want to go there.

 

I agree. Concerning atheism in particular, religious folk have no idea that some atheists have devoted their lives to charity for the benefit of mankind. The problem may be that many atheists are of  the I-don't-give-a-shit variety such as those who never had  exposure to the mentality of helping others or random friendliness without ulterior motives.

[older]

1 minute ago, pantheory said:

Concerning atheism in particular, religious folk have no idea that some atheists have devoted their lives to charity for the benefit of mankind.

You know what they say, "You can't be good without god."

 

2 minutes ago, pantheory said:

The problem may be that many atheists are of  the I-don't-give-a-shit variety such as those who never had  exposure to the mentality of helping others or random friendliness without ulterior motives.

And there are lots of alleged Christians who don't give a shit either. One I was with during the most extreme Covid lockdown refused to wear a mask over their nose. I said, "So you don't care about other people then?" Answer: "NO I DON'T!" So at that moment they just took that bible they spend so many hours a week reading and flushed it down the toilet.

[pantheory]

Yup, your right. There are probably far more I-don't-give-a-shit proclaimed Christians that never go to church, that have few Christian-like morals.

[older]

9 minutes ago, pantheory said:

Yup, your right. There are probably far more I-don't-give-a-shit proclaimed Christians that never go to church, that have few Christian-like morals.

Causes me to wonder, if Republicans can name some of their fellow party members Rhinos (Republicans In Name Only), then are such alleged Christians "Chinos"?

[pantheory]

2 hours ago, older said:

Causes me to wonder, if Republicans can name some of their fellow party members Rhinos (Republicans In Name Only), then are such alleged Christians "Chinos"?

 

Yeah, I've always been a conservative economically and therefore usually agree far more with what the republican platform than the democrats, but I hate that religion has become a major influence within the republican party than the democrats. Here's an old joke told by Will Rogers where he said "the democrats and republicans always want exactly the same things, the only difference is that the Republican say that many of these things we can't afford right now, but maybe in the distant future that will be great That was the case in the past where democrats promoted it and republicans have said not now. 

 

In my state California, the democrats put in a law that no ID is necessary for voting. The reason,, they said, was that many poor people don't have ID's and can't even get any because of its difficulty. When I went to vote they asked for no ID, just my name and address. I have 3 grown children with me that usually don't vote excepting every 4 years. I could have come back 3 times and voted for all of them since there were 3 entrances and dozens of voting helpers. To qualify to vote in the first place even a student ID is acceptable if it shows your age as being over 18. Can you image how easy it would be to fake a student ID and for the same person to vote countless times via mail-in ballots. Voter fraud to some extent is certain. In some states down south all have to take a very  simple reading test to qualify for voting to see if a voter can understand what is on the bollot. This is maybe a 3 minute, very simple (3rd grade level) test that all voters have to take at the beginning of their voting life. Republicans put such laws in place 150 years ago to stop non-literate people from voting based upon what someone else has told them. Democrats today are trying to eliminate these requirements saying that others can explain things to those that don't understand before voting, and that such laws are just an excuse for eliminating minorities from voting. 

 

There used to be voting requirements in some states that you either had to own Real Estate there, had a job and be paying taxes, or have previously worked in that state or have qualified for unemployment. If one has none of these they would have nothing to lose and always would vote for the government to spend money that would benefit them. Because of COVID most states now have mail in ballots.  All of these voting requirements are now gown in all states primarily because of the democrats wanting minorities and the less educated to vote for them IMO.

 

So how could republicans pick up enough votes to ever win an elections? They had to go two additional directions. They had to go toward national defense spending since many were employed in that industry since WWI, WW II, and especially afterwards in the cold war. Many republicans didn't like it because it required a lot of government spending which meant more taxes and more government. Secondly they had to bend toward religion. By doing so they could pick up more Hispanic voters and more democrats where ideas such as abortion were very important to these voters.  As a republican and total atheist, I didn't like religion being a part of the party, and as an economic conservative I didn't like unreasonable government spending on national defense. I also believe in states-rights, another republican preference. Let each state make its own laws and the federal government to provide national defense, diplomacy, and other protective services. But I understood that these changes were necessary for republicans IMO to keep us from becoming another strong socialist country where individual rights are of little value, and where the ends can justify the means.

 

The bottom line is that religion should be no part of politics IMO, but not appealing to voter's wishes is unwise. When I was in Junior High school in the early 50's I remember when they added the phrase "one nation under God" to the pledge of allegiance which pissed my off at the time. And in 1864 the republicans via Lincoln before his assassination added "in God we trust" to our coinage.

 

[older]

Well, apologies to Weezer for helping this thread drift so far off topic. But since I don't believe in gods, the issue of whether I am or am not made in the image of a god is irrelevant. I'm made in many ways in the image of my dad, and I sometimes realize that I'm talking or thinking just like he did. And that's sometimes OK, and sometimes not. I do see some of my mom in me. She taught me to see things. Not just to look at them but to appreciate them for their beauty and uniqueness. And for that I'm ever grateful.

[pantheory]

32 minutes ago, older said:

Well, apologies to Weezer for helping this thread drift so far off topic. But since I don't believe in gods, the issue of whether I am or am not made in the image of a god is irrelevant. I'm made in many ways in the image of my dad, and I sometimes realize that I'm talking or thinking just like he did. And that's sometimes OK, and sometimes not. I do see some of my mom in me. She taught me to see things. Not just to look at them but to appreciate them for their beauty and uniqueness. And for that I'm ever grateful.

 

Mostly my fault   and also apologies to Weezer for taking my postings too far off topic.

[pantheory]

21 minutes ago, older said:

Well, apologies to Weezer for helping this thread drift so far off topic. But since I don't believe in gods, the issue of whether I am or am not made in the image of a god is irrelevant. I'm made in many ways in the image of my dad, and I sometimes realize that I'm talking or thinking just like he did. And that's sometimes OK, and sometimes not. I do see some of my mom in me. She taught me to see things. Not just to look at them but to appreciate them for their beauty and uniqueness. And for that I'm ever grateful.

 

Yeah, my mom was pretty religious and probably believed that man was made in God's image, but my dad claimed to be Christian but never went to church excepting on Easter with family, and when asked to say grace at Thanksgiving, would always say the same thing "good bread good meat good god let's eat." -- never anything more. He might have believed in God but not in organized religion. He was a salesman and often made jokes about organized religions. He fit the profile of an agnostic but would never talk about it excepting in a joking way.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

8 hours ago, older said:

 

Well, apologies to Weezer for helping this thread drift so far off topic. 

 

 

No problem.  I just posred that as a joke.  Wasn't expecting any deep discussion.

[duderonomy]

On 12/8/2022 at 1:14 PM, older said:

  

This is what gets me. The self-righteous bible folks too often think they have an exclusive on goodness, and that the only place to find it is in the bible. But there is stuff in the bible that is good and is also common to all cultures and religions. So if I am a good person and there really is a club in the sky for good people but I can't get in because I didn't get down on my knees and grovel to the narcissism of the bouncer at the door then I don't want to go there.

 

Bouncer at the door?